The Tropical Fruit Forum
Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: lebmung on October 31, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
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I bought an Oroblanco (Sweetie) fruit from store (origin Israel) and to my surprise I found a seed. Now it's supposed to be seedless, maybe some bee pollinated with another citrus.
Anyway I planted in the incubator and after a week a seedling came out.
I know grapefruit and pomelo, the parents, take 8-15 years, or never if the seed was sterile.
Did anyone try it before?
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http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23999.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23999.0)
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Did your plant make a fruit?
I am aware of this trait of grapefruit and pomelo.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HLgT3vC/Grapefruit-juvenile.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HLgT3vC)
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None of my flowering seedlings fruited.
Please give an adequate citation: Author, title, page, year of publication.
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Biology of citrus is the book, I forgot where it was I just found this passage and took a print screen.
Seems like there are cultural practices to make the citrus flower earlier and also the use of hormones, but it's difficult to find out how exactly as most are patented or kept secret by research stations.
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Although considered "seedless", Oroblanco often produces two or three seeds. I've grown a couple of Oroblanco seedlings.
From the research I've been able to dig up, I am led to believe about half the seedlings are nucellar (identical to fruit parent), while about the other half will turn out to be diploids (basically similar to their parents or parent except it will no longer be a seedless variety.
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Although considered "seedless", Oroblanco often produces two or three seeds. I've grown a couple of Oroblanco seedlings.
Did yours fruit?
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Did yours fruit?
No, right now they are just seedlings. But I have no reason to suspect they won't eventually fruit.
They're growing very well I might add.
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My early flowering Oroblanco/Sweetie seedling grows fast and very well. However, I grow two almost 4 years old seedlings, which are very slow. The larger of the two seedlings, just measuring 24 cm. It would be interesting to know the ploidy level.
Almost 4 years and measuring only 24 cm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/757rC82T/oroblanco.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/757rC82T)
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Very small for 4 years old. Don't you want to try to induce flowering?
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If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters above the soil level , they will again flower next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
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I just looked again at my seedling, it grows very fast already showing true leaves in less than a week.
Of course I keep it at 25C, 90% RH and 800µm. I will use some antigibberellins to promote short internodes and hopefully early flowering.
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Retardants are effective only when a plant reaches a certain size, usually at the height of 2 meters.
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I successfully induced flowering in papaya at a young age. So I'll try same with citrus. I am not so sure about the size. from citrus cuttings I had flowers at 15 cm high Also I am still trying to figure out the Japanese methods.
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If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters above the soil level , they will again flower next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
I didn't know that. Thankyou!
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If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters above the soil level , they will again flower next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut. Otherwise, they will flower in more than 10 years.
I didn't know that. Thankyou!
I just sent you this article by email
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I successfully induced flowering in papaya at a young age. So I'll try same with citrus. I am not so sure about the size. from citrus cuttings I had flowers at 15 cm high Also I am still trying to figure out the Japanese methods.
Some varieties of papayas can be grown from seeds like tomato with fruiting in 10 month ;D
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Yes I know, papaya is whole different subject for which I made a lot of experiments.
Thanks, I'll take a look at the article.
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Yes I know, papaya is whole different subject for which I made a lot of experiments.
Thanks, I'll take a look at the article.
Send me your email address by PM
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Don't you want to try to induce flowering?
I don´t have the skills, doing it.
If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters above the soil level , they will again flower next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut.
That sounds incredible. Imagine, if you cut every year. What you will get in 20 years?
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I don´t have the skills, doing it.
You said you have a big seedling, try to cut all lateral buds and leave one single vertical shoot that you bend over. It's said to be flowering the following year.
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If you cut these "early flowering" grapefruits after first year flower to just few centimeters above the soil level , they will again flower next year on the tops of the shoots emerging below the cut.
That sounds incredible. Imagine, if you cut every year. What you will get in 20 years?
Something like this:
(https://a.radikal.ru/a01/1811/e6/4faac9c36585.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)
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I get sterile male flowers on my key lime, this usually happens during the winter.
This is a different methods. What I read it's more like leaving one vertical bud only and when it reaches almost 2 m high, bend it over.
It's known that auxins and antigibberellins trigger early flowering in citrus, but not GA or cytokinins
So I guess bend it over would lower the auxins levels.
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I get sterile male flowers on my key lime, this usually happens during the winter.
This is a different methods. What I read it's more like leaving one vertical bud only and when it reaches almost 2 m high, bend it over.
It's known that auxins and antigibberellins trigger early flowering in citrus, but not GA or cytokinins.
So I guess bend it over would lower the auxins levels.
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Here's one of the seedlings of Oroblanco I grew:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wqtmkt9T/20181104-200732.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wqtmkt9T)
It could be a nucellar seed (exact genetic copy of its parent, in which case it would be triploid) or it could be a zygotic diploid (in which case when it eventually fruits the fruits will be full of many seeds, no longer "seedless"). From the research I've read, specifically relating to the variety Oroblanco, I gather that the chances are probably about 50-50 .
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Your plant, immediately need Mg and more N. Check your water it might be very alkaline.
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I don't see a magnesium problem, but as Lemung wrote, it is badly in need of nitrogen.
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If you zoom in, the 4 lower leaves show the beginning of Mg deficiency. This is because of anion/cation exchange, and Mg blocking by Ca în alkaline water.
Also the transparent bottles will bring algae/ moss and root exposure to light. Which in turn will slow down growth.
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It would be interesting to know the ploidy level.
There's also a small chance the seedling could be tetraploid.
Due to the much lower viability of triploid seed formation (when they are zygotic; this doesn't affect nucellar seed), a substantially greater proportion of the viable sexual gametes are unreduced. An unreduced 3n gamete can then combine with a normal 1n haploid, resulting in a 4n zygote.
There was one study that found a tetraploid in 1 out of 24 Oroblanco seeds.
(The much less common naturally unreduced gametes do not suffer from the triploid viability problems since they never underwent meiosis, that's why their ratio becomes higher among the viable seeds, since there are fewer viable seeds)
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How do you test if the seedling is tetraploid?
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How do you test if the seedling is tetraploid?
There's no easy certain test, but generally the leaves of tetraploids tend to be just a little bit bigger.
You might go find the thread "about how to breed seedless citrus varieties" starting at post number 3. Ilya11 posted some good information.
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My seed-grown Sweetie is starting to flower for the first time after 4 or 5 years (I am not sure which year I planted the seed). I reckon that is quick enough for Switzerland. I hope it does not stop next year and take another couple of years to flower again.
It used to have much larger leaves but perhaps the pot is too small..
I will try to graft it onto Poncirus next year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3dQ02zjT/20190411-123506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dQ02zjT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Tpc1g1YV/20190411-123623.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpc1g1YV)
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The pot is indeed too small. When a tree has outgrown the container, thus becoming root bound, the growth habit of the tree becomes straight up, like toothpaste squeezed out of the tube, as shown in your picture.