Author Topic: can you root budwood?  (Read 7815 times)

JustJoshinya

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can you root budwood?
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:47:35 PM »
I was wondering if its possible to root budwood? I am expecting an order of budwood from the ccpp in a few weeks but I don't have suitable rootstock I was debating between three options I could graft a bud onto my orange seedling but they are very young, I could by a citrus from Lowes and use it to bud graft cause it will be on rootstock or I can attempt to root one of the budwood sticks by itself. I like the thought of rooting the budwood by itself but I don't know how difficult it would be, I'm assuming it should be possible but probably has a low probability of success any advice or experience is welcomed.
-Joshua

brian

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 01:03:55 AM »
I've never grafted anything successfully, so take this with a grain of salt...

If the cultivar you are receiving is known to grow well on its own roots then rooting it may work fine.  Though rooted cuttings are known to be more sensitive to wind because of a lack of taproot.  If it is not known to grow well on its own roots then you may be better off buying a donor plant to use as rootstock.  I've seen trees large enough to bud onto for less than $20 at big-box stores.

fyliu

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 02:05:08 AM »
I don't think the cuttings provided by ccpp are large enough to root. I could be wrong though. They tend to cut pretty small and young twigs so maybe their youth will allow them to root as semi-soft cuttings with something like a misting bed setup.

The fingerlime thread has people saying finger limes are easy to root with a large enough cutting and will start producing very soon.

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 03:42:35 AM »
I have a propagator and a heat mat I keep the propagator at a very high humidity under LED lighting the cultivar I ordered was "Ugli tangor -New Zealand" I couldn't find too much information on whether it grows well on its own roots. I ordered 12 budwoods so 2 sticks I think I will try to root one stick and use the other and buy a suitable citrus to use its root stock.  I will have to wait and see if/when the order arrives I guess. But id be worried that I wouldn't have success with grafting I have never attempted it

Millet

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 12:48:34 PM »
Yes, in the past I have removed a bud or two from a piece of budwood, then rooted the stick.  A  lot depends on the variety of budwood, as some varieties such as lemons root very easy, while other types can be more difficult. - Millet
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 01:44:41 PM by Millet »

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 01:34:19 PM »
Thank you for the advice and replies you guys, gave me a little confidence to attempt both bud grafting and rooting of a bud wood. I will keep you guys posted when the order comes in and when I attempt to do the budding

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 05:46:59 PM »
My budwood order came in from the CCPP, i got 3 sticks of "Ugli Tangor- New Zealand" 2 sticks are thin and one is a bit thicker, there are more than 12 buds within this budwood order. they are healthy looking. and went into the fridge as i contacted the OC agricultural commissioner to do the "quarantine inspection"


Here i am with my supplies i got the budwood some pruning sheers and some new razor blades, i also could not find grafting tape so i found this flagging roll, should work fine.


here ive made what i would call is a hybrid t graft, my seedlings are rather thin and young so it was hard to get the bark to peel away from the cambium so i cut a notch out and peeled it and split it that way, again i think it will work fine although i dont know if i went deep enough on this graft.


here are the finished buds wrapped in the flagging roll the second bud graft i did i went much deeper than the first one to be ensured i was down to a layer that would fuse and heal with the bud.




here is the finished seedling with the 2 t bud grafts, now we will wait and see how it turns out


now to attempt to root the remaining budwood, my supplies are some rooting gel the razor blades and some soil plugs that will go into the propagator i cut the budwood into smaller sizes with 2 to 3 buds on a stick, i then shaved off some of the bark below the buds where i will be attempting to root and dipped them into the rooting hormone and into the soil plugs, and into the propagator, i waters the plugs with distilled water prior to inserting the budwood. after everything was said and done i took 1tspn of rooting hormone and mixed it into 8oz of distilled water and filled the bottom of the propagator with water to the bottom level of the plugs to keep them moist until hopefully they grow some roots of their own, i will keep the humidity high and the temperature increased over the next several weeks and see if i can root these cuttings. if everything works out i should have about 12 ugli tangors. i will post an update in a few weeks.








Millet

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 06:23:18 PM »
Wishing you the best results.  Thanks for your wonderful post. - Millet
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:32:11 AM by Millet »

fruitmentor

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 06:26:58 PM »
Hi Joshua,

Last week I went to the annual conference of the California Citrus Nursery Society. I learned there that some commercially produced citrus trees are made with rooted rootstock cuttings, so your method definitely has potential. They have a carefully controlled environment with bottom heat and high humidity. They also use rooting hormone. It looks like you are doing everything needed for success. Good luck with your experiment. I look forward to hearing how your cuttings do.

Best regards,
Dan Willey

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 06:44:15 PM »
Thanks for the reassuring words guys, I hope it all works out and will definitely keep everyone posted on its progress

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 01:14:10 PM »
There is no progress on the 2 grafts i did, i peeled back some of the flagging roll and looked at the graft, it doesnt look unhealthy but doesnt look like it is doing much either, still in the healing phase i suppose another week or so and i should see some progress.

Now, the cuttings are doing okay, one of the cuttings got "soggie" it was the one closest to the front on the right sight, which makes sense i use a spray bottle with distilled water and im right handed so im sure this particular cutting got over watered unintentionally. There is also one cutting that had some white hairs starting to develop, it is most assuredly a mold or fungus attacking this plant. i did not wear gloves when cutting these budwoods and i may have introduced a mold/fungus onto this cutting but it might have arrived on the budwood order itself or been an airborne spore who knows. to treat this fungus/mold i dipped a Q-tip into rubbing alcohol and rubbed off the mold hairs, i will decide tomorrow whether this cutting gets removed or not, all other cuttings look good and strong.

Now onto the good news about 5 of the cuttings have pushed out their buds and will send up a shoot within a few days, i did notice that all the cuttings that are pushing a bud are also from the thinner cuttings none of the cuttings made from the "thicker" budwood piece have pushed out a bud yet, so i can deduce that the thinner less mature budwood source was better for this rooting project. i will continue to monitor and hopefully a few more cuttings will begin to push out growth from the buds. i was going to pull out one of the cuttings to see/show the root development but decided this might damage the young roots so i will wait until i can see some roots through the soil plug. now a few pictures of the new growth.











mrtexas

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 12:44:25 PM »

That is a chip bud. Don't expect that your ugli fruit will be anything like those grown in Jamaica

My budwood order came in from the CCPP, i got 3 sticks of "Ugli Tangor- New Zealand" 2 sticks are thin and one is a bit thicker, there are more than 12 buds within this budwood order. they are healthy looking. and went into the fridge as i contacted the OC agricultural commissioner to do the "quarantine inspection"


Here i am with my supplies i got the budwood some pruning sheers and some new razor blades, i also could not find grafting tape so i found this flagging roll, should work fine.


here ive made what i would call is a hybrid t graft, my seedlings are rather thin and young so it was hard to get the bark to peel away from the cambium so i cut a notch out and peeled it and split it that way, again i think it will work fine although i dont know if i went deep enough on this graft.


here are the finished buds wrapped in the flagging roll the second bud graft i did i went much deeper than the first one to be ensured i was down to a layer that would fuse and heal with the bud.




here is the finished seedling with the 2 t bud grafts, now we will wait and see how it turns out


now to attempt to root the remaining budwood, my supplies are some rooting gel the razor blades and some soil plugs that will go into the propagator i cut the budwood into smaller sizes with 2 to 3 buds on a stick, i then shaved off some of the bark below the buds where i will be attempting to root and dipped them into the rooting hormone and into the soil plugs, and into the propagator, i waters the plugs with distilled water prior to inserting the budwood. after everything was said and done i took 1tspn of rooting hormone and mixed it into 8oz of distilled water and filled the bottom of the propagator with water to the bottom level of the plugs to keep them moist until hopefully they grow some roots of their own, i will keep the humidity high and the temperature increased over the next several weeks and see if i can root these cuttings. if everything works out i should have about 12 ugli tangors. i will post an update in a few weeks.








JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 06:06:38 PM »
Yep!! you are right that is a chip bud graft, those grafts still are not doing very much but dont look like they are dying either so its a waiting game on the chip bud grafted seedlings. but ALL cuttings have pushed out buds and are begining to send out leaves.

i know my ugli fruit will not be the same as the "Ugli Fruit" that is sold commercially from jamaica but i just wanted an uncommon citrus tree, every tree i see locally or that my friends own are, meyer lemons, bears lime/mexican limes, and navel oranges or mandarins. i just wanted a citrus tree that people would ask "what kind of fruit is that??" so however it turns out i will be satisfied with it.





JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2014, 04:52:08 PM »
So a little update on my grafting and rooting project. The two T bud grafts did not take, they both dried and turned brown, although the seedling did begin to produce callus tissue at the two membranes. i believe since i did not use parafilm that the buds dried out before the graft could take.

All cuttings that were trying to root died none of them grew any roots they produced buds and a few produced actual leaves but then shortly after they turned brown and the leaves wilted and died. i believe that a few things contributed to the unsuccessful outcome of my attempt to root the cuttings, i believe that i did not keep them moist enough to stay alive, though i had them in a propagator with a heat mat and a drip tray with water. i also believe that because i was only watering them with distilled water that this may have contributed to their demise. if i were to do it again i would not use the rooting plugs that came with the propagator i would use wood chips and clay pots as i believe the rooting plugs dried too quickly while i was away at work. with the remaining budwood i put a few buds into a plant tissue culture medium inside of sealed jars and they have been there for about a week now and are not dying and are currently developing "callus" tissue growth as we speak, i did this as i was bored and the budwood had been in the fridge for a few weeks and i thought id try a little experiment.

The medium i used for the plant tissue growth i made at home using.
:Cane Sugar
:Agar Agar powder (found at a health food store, or Asian market in the desert/baking isle its a substitute for gelatin)
:All purpose 10-10-10 fertilizer liquid
:half a multi vitamin
:a 1/4 cup of coconut water
:and 2 tblsp of Clone-X rooting gel
:and distilled water

heated up mixed into the hot distilled water use the agar last. poured into jars and let sit in fridge to solidify and then pressure cooked them to sterilize it all.




Next i decided that i would cut my seedling just below the graft i attempted and regraft it using a cleft graft, and this time i would seal the graft with all purpose parrafin wax i also went to lowes and bought a Dancy tangerine to use as a rootstock, i trimmed the dancy back very heavily when i bought it, i watered it well over night and then trimmed it completely and grafted multiple scions of ugli tangor using cleft graft and the parafin wax (i am still using the flagging tape, im just sealing it with parafin after i have wrapped it). i also ordered some "temple x minneola" budwood and grafted this varriety onto the dancy rootstock with the ugli tangor. The one seedling with an ugli tangor cleft graft and the dancy root stock with ugli tangor and templexmineolla cleft grafts are now in my growing tent under a 150W CFL 6500k bulb and a LED fixture with 12x3WBridgelux18000k   11x3WBridgelux460nm  2x3WBridgelux360nm. 

I hope these grafts take this time around. here are some pictures of the dancy after i pruned it but before i grafted it and after i grafted it inside my grow tent.

enjoy :) any advice/tips or comments welcomed.












organik

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 10:59:21 AM »
i've taken cuttings from my neighbors meyers lemon tree and had a 50% take on rooting them. nothing special.. no heat mat, perlite in cups in a humidity dome. used boiled willow to soak the cuttings for half an hour prior to putting them in perlite. took about 2 weeks for roots to show.

Millet

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 05:28:24 PM »
Many people have tried to define or describe the ideal rooting medium (material in which the roots develop) for propagation of cuttings.  In general, it has been found that there is no ideal rooting medium, but several combinations of materials can provide a good, workable medium with a drainable pore space of 40% to 50%.  Good quality peat and coarse perlite, or peat and ground pine bark on a 1:1 or 1:1.5 or 1:2 basis by volume works well in propagation containers approximately 3.5 to 4 inches deep.  If the pot is less than 2 inches deep my advice is to not use them.  Be careful not to make the common mistake by sticking the cutting to deep into the container where the cut end of the cutting is in the poorly drained area (perched water table) which is at the bottom of every container.  It's all about energy (carbohydrates).  If you start with weak cuttings that contain little energy, problems abound.  Start with cuttings with good energy researves.  - Millet
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 05:30:23 PM by Millet »

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2014, 09:10:14 PM »
Grafting the ugli tangor has been a pain in my butt all of the grafts except 2 have failed, but 2 of the grafts are still green and 1 has sent out a bud shoot so expect these two grafts to make it. As far as the buds in the agar none have begun sending any roots out although most are still green so I will just allow them to sit longer.

vanman

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 06:54:55 PM »
I tried to root some leftover scion I got from the CCPP in Dec. 2015. Out of about 10 specimens (pomelos and mandarins) only one rooted. It is a Tahitian pomelo.

This is what I did. I removed all the leaves. I then wrapped in 2 layers of parafilm tape. I shaved the bottom of the scion to expose the cambium and then dipped in rooting hormone. The soil was 511 which I poked a hole in the soil with a pencil. I then put the scion into the hole trying not to rub off the hormone. It was then put in mostly shade and they were misted for 1 min every hour in the day time an every 2 hours at night. They all leafed out but all but one died. The big different between the one that lived and the rest was that the one that lived was very short and only had 2 buds on it. I think the trick is to prevent it from leafing out as long as possible so that some roots can grow. Van


apiosiscool

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 10:11:23 PM »
What rooting hormone are you guys using? i wonder if different concentrations of the active ingredient in the hormone has a significant effect?

JustJoshinya

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2016, 05:35:54 PM »
at the time i used clone-X gel but the rooting did not work, but i think i went about it wrong, i should have kept them in a dark place for a bit, cause i think a lot of energy was spent on sending out new shoots rather than roots, but idk.

vanman

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Re: can you root budwood?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2016, 08:20:05 AM »
I just used what ever root starter they sell at the big box stores.  I've seem to have misplaced it since I can't find it now.  I agree with Josh, try to keep it from budding out as long as possible.  That's why I wrapped them in parafilm. Next time I will try to keep in low light and maybe even a relatively cool place.  So I'm not sure if summer is the best time to start cuttings as a link to an article about satsumas eluded to.  Van