Extreme topping ("pugging") of my Lemon Zest

[Mark in Texas]

Hi Mark.

Your Meyer Lemon Tree looks fantastic and is probably going to inspire me to plant one regardless of HLB in FL.

How many seasons do you think you'll have to forgo fruit on your LZ until the central leaders are strong (thick) enough to hold the weight of any mango?

MagnaBon is suspected of treating HLB well. 

I'll probably thin many of the pea size fruits if I get any at all. You'd be surprised how big the branch girth is on the LZ already and it has at least 4 months of dormancy coming up to get nice and woody.  We'll see.......

I love Meyer especially for the rich oily zest for baking.  We'll be making a key lime pie with fresh limes and Meyer zest for TD.  It is to die for.  My wife adds cinnamon and fresh ground nutmeg to the crust which she pre-bakes for a short while before filling it. I add at least 1 Tblsp. of zest to the mix and cut the fresh juice down from 1/2 cup to 1/3.  My limes are very tart.  We also have farm eggs and use 3 egg yolks and 3 whites, the latter she whips to stiff tops and gently folds in.  She then whips up a topping with a dash of Tahitian vanilla bean extract.  Want some?   



Best recipe is Pepe's, with our tweeks of course. 
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/pepes-cafe-key-lime-pie-394349

[knlim000]

yeah, sent me a piece to try. 

[FruitFreak]

Hi Mark.

Your Meyer Lemon Tree looks fantastic and is probably going to inspire me to plant one regardless of HLB in FL.

How many seasons do you think you'll have to forgo fruit on your LZ until the central leaders are strong (thick) enough to hold the weight of any mango?

MagnaBon is suspected of treating HLB well. 

I'll probably thin many of the pea size fruits if I get any at all. You'd be surprised how big the branch girth is on the LZ already and it has at least 4 months of dormancy coming up to get nice and woody.  We'll see.......

I love Meyer especially for the rich oily zest for baking.  We'll be making a key lime pie with fresh limes and Meyer zest for TD.  It is to die for.  My wife adds cinnamon and fresh ground nutmeg to the crust which she pre-bakes for a short while before filling it. I add at least 1 Tblsp. of zest to the mix and cut the fresh juice down from 1/2 cup to 1/3.  My limes are very tart.  We also have farm eggs and use 3 egg yolks and 3 whites, the latter she whips to stiff tops and gently folds in.  She then whips up a topping with a dash of Tahitian vanilla bean extract.  Want some?   



Best recipe is Pepe's, with our tweeks of course. 
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/pepes-cafe-key-lime-pie-394349

Jeezus Mark.  That pie has me frothing   I really look forward to seeing how your LZ bush progresses - good stuff man.

[onur]

Very nice looking trees Mark!  Do you think you can pug the other tropical fruit trees this way?

Would it be enough to use only MagnBon 2005 for the trees to prevent diseases? How and when do you apply it?

You can train any tree, tropical or otherwise if you understand what the output will be before you make your cuts.  Only regret I have is on a large Reed avocado that I topped.  Damn thing went into a  T formation instead of V.

MaganBon can be used as a preventative any time you have disease pressures or a curative at double the rate whenever you need a curative.  Make sure to use a surfactant in the foliar spray or you're wasting your time.  Only takes 1.5 tsp./gal.

Ha haa ! Thanks for the explanation! T formation actually makes trees look cool ! But that is not what we are looking for, regarding fruit production...  Dish soap as a surfactant can be used, and it is for helping that stuff
"MaganBon" spread more widely all over the foliage, right?

[Mark in Texas]

Very nice looking trees Mark!  Do you think you can pug the other tropical fruit trees this way?

Would it be enough to use only MagnBon 2005 for the trees to prevent diseases? How and when do you apply it?

You can train any tree, tropical or otherwise if you understand what the output will be before you make your cuts.  Only regret I have is on a large Reed avocado that I topped.  Damn thing went into a  T formation instead of V.

MaganBon can be used as a preventative any time you have disease pressures or a curative at double the rate whenever you need a curative.  Make sure to use a surfactant in the foliar spray or you're wasting your time.  Only takes 1.5 tsp./gal.

Ha haa ! Thanks for the explanation! T formation actually makes trees look cool ! But that is not what we are looking for, regarding fruit production...  Dish soap as a surfactant can be used, and it is for helping that stuff
"MaganBon" spread more widely all over the foliage, right?

Ivory liquid dish soap is OK but a good surfactant like a non-ionic surfactant aka spreader-sticker is better.  Yes, spray the foliage or soil drench.

Thanks FruitFreak.  We eat well, eh?

[Mark in Texas]

Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart moving along nicely.  Youngsters last year now blooming and pushing foliage.



Perfect branching and structure, at least for me.

[simon_grow]

Your tree looks amazing Mark. My tropicals keep getting killed back by frost in the winter time. I'm really considering getting a greenhouse to accelerate growth of my potted trees. Are you going to wait another year or two to let it hold fruit?

Simon

[edzone9]

Love the Bonsai Look ! ...here is my Mango Bonsai I started yesterday ..😊

Ed...

[spaugh]

Mark, I thought your second photo was a tomato tree for a second there.

[Mark in Texas]

Your tree looks amazing Mark. My tropicals keep getting killed back by frost in the winter time. I'm really considering getting a greenhouse to accelerate growth of my potted trees. Are you going to wait another year or two to let it hold fruit?

Simon

Thanks Simon.  Yeah in certain areas a greenhouse is a must.  My first avocado cost me $30,000 but I do have complete control where others don't, doesn't matter where they live.

I doubt if I let these new mangos hold any fruit, BUT, as I advise others who ask this age old question, "only you can make that call".  Fruit load has to be weighed against canopy and root mass (carbos production for fruit support) and a good trunk and branch girth and woodiness, lignification which signals a bit of age.

Spaugh, speaking of tomato plants I have 2 tomato volunteers on the ground one sprawling about 10' X 10'.  We've been eating great tasting tomatoes all winter long. I don't get it.  In the past when I carefully staked seedling starters they were bland.  These are as good as my summer outdoor tomatoes albeit small, like 5-8 oz.  I've got BHN 602 aka 'Rodeo', a winner, and Big Beef and one you can't find anymore that is to die for and loves heat - Sunmaster.
       


BHN 602 was selected out of 4,500 tomatoes planted south of San Antonio during a trial study.  Was the San Antonio 2012 winner at their stock and rodeo show competition.  Interesting review of it here.  It's  one of my faves and would do great in the hotter areas of the country.  http://www.plantanswers.com/Articles/BHN_602_Tomato.asp

[Mark in Texas]

Love the Bonsai Look ! ...here is my Mango Bonsai I started yesterday ..😊

Ed...

One in the middle Ed?  You just topped it?

[edzone9]

Yes Topper My Honey Kiss Mango To Try And Create A Bonsai Mango , Didn't like the Hydroponics 😊

Ed

[FruitFreak]

Yes Topper My Honey Kiss Mango To Try And Create A Bonsai Mango , Didn't like the Hydroponics 😊

Ed

Curious to see if the HK will survive such torture.  Ballzy topping after the hydro attempt and this time of year unless it was pushing. 

[ChristineMessner]

The solstice draws near, the days are cool and short. The mornings cold and misty. Mrs Grey Thrush is out and about celebrating this cold, cloudy, misty, drizzling morning. She flys down and serenades The Lovely with her beautiful haunting melodic song. she swoops down and continues from the verandah guttering, then up into the pine tree with her mate. They continue together for some time all around the garden with what might be some sort of call and response? It’s a shear delight on a dull morning.

[Mark in Texas]

The solstice draws near, the days are cool and short. The mornings cold and misty. Mrs Grey Thrush is out and about celebrating this cold, cloudy, misty, drizzling morning. She flys down and serenades The Lovely with her beautiful haunting melodic song. she swoops down and continues from the verandah guttering, then up into the pine tree with her mate. They continue together for some time all around the garden with what might be some sort of call and response? It’s a shear delight on a dull morning.

Very poetic! You must have some fine feathered friends down under, eh?

The bees sing to me along with a finch that hops around on the trees and sits on top of the wall vent.  Trust me, in a greenhouse that finch is LOUD. 

[jorge_cima]

I bought two 3 gallon lemon zest trees from Excalibur about two years ago. One of the trees was a gift for a friend who happens to be a volunteer at Fruit and Spice park in South Dade.   Well, neither one of the trees has done well.  My friend's tree died after drying out completely.  My tree is looking sick.  So far, I spent about a week removing scale bugs from under the leaves with my fingernails. I sprayed and fertilized the tree several times and have mulched it and fertilize it.  Nothing seems to have helped. 
I would like to know if you used anything to protect the bare stump when you pruned it.  I think I have nothing to lose by trying the same thing and see if I induce new, healthy growth from the tree.

[simon_grow]

Mark, here is a picture of your tree in few more years.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-53d95a05/turbine/fl-fairchild-garden-column-080314-20140730

Simon

[shinzo]

I bought two 3 gallon lemon zest trees from Excalibur about two years ago. One of the trees was a gift for a friend who happens to be a volunteer at Fruit and Spice park in South Dade.   Well, neither one of the trees has done well.  My friend's tree died after drying out completely.  My tree is looking sick.  So far, I spent about a week removing scale bugs from under the leaves with my fingernails. I sprayed and fertilized the tree several times and have mulched it and fertilize it.  Nothing seems to have helped. 
I would like to know if you used anything to protect the bare stump when you pruned it.  I think I have nothing to lose by trying the same thing and see if I induce new, healthy growth from the tree.

As i learnt in this forum, Generally it is not advisable to seal the cut after pugging the tree because you can seal in fungal diseases. I have just pugged my kent tree 15 days ago, i didn't cover the stump with anything.

[Mark in Texas]

Mark, here is a picture of your tree in few more years.
http://www.trbimg.com/img-53d95a05/turbine/fl-fairchild-garden-column-080314-20140730

Simon

I wish!  That really is incredible.

No seal to the cut.  It can work against you. Jorge if your LZ is not growing well then it suggests you need to learn what makes a plant tick.  Not trying to be crass but when I read such "aw shit" groans it suggests Botany 101 is in order.   For you scale problem spray with a good horticultural oil.  If need be add 1 tsp of malathion per gallon to kick up a notch.

Good luck!

[jorge_cima]

Thank you for the info.
Am not new to growing trees, pruning etc. I have a small collection of healthy trees around the sickly LZ : Nam Doc Mai, Kent, Mun Kun Si, Carry, Sapodilla, Avocado, Mamey Zapote, Caimito, Lychee.  But I must admit I have never pruned a mango down to the bare stump.  The LZ, however, it is turning into a challenge. Am going to try pruning it and see if the new growth comes out healthier.

Thanks!

[bsbullie]

Thank you for the info.
Am not new to growing trees, pruning etc. I have a small collection of healthy trees around the sickly LZ : Nam Doc Mai, Kent, Mun Kun Si, Carry, Sapodilla, Avocado, Mamey Zapote, Caimito, Lychee.  But I must admit I have never pruned a mango down to the bare stump.  The LZ, however, it is turning into a challenge. Am going to try pruning it and see if the new growth comes out healthier.

Thanks!

I would not prune your mango anywhere near to a/the "stump" for a few reasons.  One being, if there is a problem with the tree, severely pruning back will not cure the problem.

[Mark in Texas]

Thank you for the info.
Am not new to growing trees, pruning etc. I have a small collection of healthy trees around the sickly LZ : Nam Doc Mai, Kent, Mun Kun Si, Carry, Sapodilla, Avocado, Mamey Zapote, Caimito, Lychee.  But I must admit I have never pruned a mango down to the bare stump.  The LZ, however, it is turning into a challenge. Am going to try pruning it and see if the new growth comes out healthier.

Thanks!

I would not prune your mango anywhere near to a/the "stump" for a few reasons.  One being, if there is a problem with the tree, severely pruning back will not cure the problem.

Works for me and I've done quite a few.

Now......if you live in humid Florida where you're subject to disease pressures and/or are too stupid to spray fungicides and protect your trees and/or have a mango that is weeping in nature versus the upright profile of a Lemon Zest......then you best top a couple of feet or more from the ground to provide good air movement.

You know....."Common Sense" Rob. 

[bsbullie]

Thank you for the info.
Am not new to growing trees, pruning etc. I have a small collection of healthy trees around the sickly LZ : Nam Doc Mai, Kent, Mun Kun Si, Carry, Sapodilla, Avocado, Mamey Zapote, Caimito, Lychee.  But I must admit I have never pruned a mango down to the bare stump.  The LZ, however, it is turning into a challenge. Am going to try pruning it and see if the new growth comes out healthier.

Thanks!

I would not prune your mango anywhere near to a/the "stump" for a few reasons.  One being, if there is a problem with the tree, severely pruning back will not cure the problem.

Works for me and I've done quite a few.

Now......if you live in humid Florida where you're subject to disease pressures and/or are too stupid to spray fungicides and protect your trees and/or have a mango that is weeping in nature versus the upright profile of a Lemon Zest......then you best top a couple of feet or more from the ground to provide good air movement.

You know....."Common Sense" Rob. 

That person is in South Florida,  and tree is planted in the ground.  Totally different circumstances than yours.  Here we need airflow under and even thru the mango trees.  I would cut back no lower than 3 - 3.5 feet and that can be a drastic chop depending on the size and evdn shapr of the tree.

Yes, common sense and knowing how trees grow and react to the environment around you...

Oh, and my LZ while is not weeping,  is also not as upright as say Sweet Tart and Peach Cobbler.   It has a more full shape and habit.

[Mark in Texas]

That person is in South Florida,  and tree is planted in the ground.  Totally different circumstances than yours.

check

Here we need airflow under and even thru the mango trees..... Yes, common sense and knowing how trees grow and react to the environment around you...

check

What I emphasized.  It's the gardener's call as to how they want to profile their tree.  They must first understand or predict what will happen if they make such and such cut.  After pruning and training 1,000's of Xmas trees, fruit and grapevines I have a pretty good handle on what the expected output will be after I hit them with my Felco's or backpack Beneke electric shearer.  For those doing large ops it's hard to beat it.
http://treeteck.com/beneke-rotary-pruner-wands/

[FruitFreak]

I've found after topping dozens of different varieties that LZ can be a little more "fragile" especially if topped during late fall or winter.  I may have killed several 3gallons last year doing this only later to have a prominent grower in Bokeelia tell me that LZ doesn't always respond well to topping.  Around waist high is my target now.  Sometimes under and sometimes over depending on the tree but always time with season or flush.