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Messages - GROWITFROMSEED

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1
Sounds like a great project.  Many good comments and suggestions.  I can only add that it's critical to pay close attention to the environmental preferences for each species of fruit.  Specifically, the soil type preference, drought/flood tolerance, wind tolerance, elevation/temperature, and rainfall requirements.  It makes a huge difference on how successful each will be.

Many species require partial or total shade during the early years, so don't cut down all the bush trees right away.    Papaya and cassava are both great 'quick shade' plants.

If there will be a center for the project, consider some ornamentally-pruned trees that form trellises, arches, etc. that show the amazing things that can be done with trees.

Yes agreed, every tree has its needs,  Mangosteen which is a "must" have,  requires shade for the first years of its life, planting another fast growing tree for shade, anythng from Neem, to breadfruit, etc.  so many choices.

Great suggestions guys. I know Alfonso will have plenty of mangosteen seedlings in a few months. I just went there and his trees are flowering and fruiting now.

This land is mostly flat. It is a residential/tourist project which is pretty large. The overall area is probably about 1000 acres. The part I would plant would probably work out to about 20-50 acres. I am not entirely sure because they are still in the process of designing this part.

2
From the sound of it, you plan on planting thousands of trees. If thats the case, logistics and costs would be the biggest issue. Any grafted plants would become an issue of cost and supplies. You would also need to consider irrigation concerns and labor costs for establishing plants.

I would focus on planting seeds personally. The labor costs and cost of materials would be drastically lower. Coming up with a grid pattern which has nitrogen fixer plants intertwined would be optimal (from what I gathered watching and reading permaculture material).

Techniques such as chop and drop on nitrogen fixers and biomass trees, would help improve soil culture thus feeding the roots and improving moisture retention.

Things such as waterboxx, greenboxx, and seedling guards would help greatly on establishing seedling trees. Directly sowing seeds in a waterboxx/greenboxx would improve seedling survival rate greatly with minimal labor involved.

Thanks for the advice. I do have a farmer at my disposal so I will review the information about the spacing and layout and then consult with him about it. I will also review the info you just sent over about nitrogen fixing. In this country I can source about 50 varieties of fruit trees as seedlings to 1 year old for about $1 per plant or so. Grafted will cost me about $5-8. I plan to plant about 90% seedlings and 10% grafted. To this I will add a number that I grow from seeds based on the seed source recommendations from you all and my other sources.

3
Plant hardwoods and nut trees too.

Ice cream beans and other kiddie fruits are good, I think

Don't forget fruits that need lots of processing like Lucuma and the like.  Value added is always more money added.

Thanks. Any suggestions of hardwoods would certainly be appreciated. I would love to get some pecans growing here, but I dont think they are tropical. Any suggestions on tropical nut trees? Cashew trees are already pretty popular and would be a nice addition. The project I am hoping to plant in is so large that they will actually have different areas for different kinds of trees and plants. I saw a Rainbow Eucalyptus growing here (in the DR) in a local tropical fruit tree farm. I think that would be a great addition, but in another part of the development that will be more focused on visually stunning trees.

4
Hey all,

It looks like I am close to realizing my dream of planning, designing, and planting a rather large tropical fruit forest here in the Dominican Republic. This project will be intended to benefit both the property owners on the project, about 2000 eventual owners, and tourists. I am basically opening up the floor to any advice, ideas, or suggestions the community may have. The overall idea is to create something which will have all the common and rare fruits which can grow in the Caribbean. I will have some expert help with planting, fertilization, caring for the plants, etc.  Here are my ideas.

1. Plant faster growing varieties in abundance. If you all have any suggestions I would be happy to hear. So far I have abiu, carambola, guava, rambutan, jack fruit, cacao, canistel, annonas, mango, etc. There really are too many to type.
2. Plant slower growing varieties such as durian, jaboticaba, others that I only have the Spanish names for.
3. I plan to plant some super fast cropping plants in between the tress in the mean time - pineapple, papaya, passion fruit, melons, other vines and super fast fruit that I am researching.
4. Of course I will look for grafted varieties and established potted plants when possible.

Questions:
1. Would any particular layout be best? For example faster trees on the inside and slower trees on the outside, or vice versa? Maybe mix them in together?
2. Anyone know of a U.S. source which produces export quality grafted plants covering some of the best kinds of mango, avocado, and other zone 11 tropical fruit trees?
3. Any recommendations as to some of the rarest varieties that should be included in the mix? I  have seen that some people have up to 250+ kinds of fruit trees. Eventually I would like for this to be on that level. I really do think I will have the space.

I tried to keep this post as brief as possible. The big picture is that I would like for this to be something that any of you would consider worth traveling to the DR to see in person. FYI - I plan to video everything from sourcing the plants, to the planting of them, to the growth - Everything. So, your advice will not go in vain.

Thanks in advance for any help!

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Abiu Fruiting Age?
« on: February 11, 2014, 12:51:57 PM »
We have a guy here that grows them. They say that it only takes a couple of years from seed. Guess if depends on the variety and where you have them planted.

6
Wow. Maybe I am being a bit alarmist. But this seems like it could be on the verge of a national emergency.

National emergency, indeed.   We'll need to learn how to mix vodka with inferior substitutes.  The cocktail industry will never be the same.

Lol. I am thinking about a $9 billion industry being crippled. The economy would definitely feel it.

7
Wow. Maybe I am being a bit alarmist. But this seems like it could be on the verge of a national emergency.

8
I laugh at the video because my aunt gave her pure first impression, without the filter of having been told what to expect. Most people approach durian have been warned "this thing is smelly." I certainly approached it that way. But my aunt came down stairs and had no preconceived notion about it. She had never heard of it before, nor had she seen it before. So her reaction was 100% genuine and untainted.

9
One of the smelly compounds that durian gives off (among dozens) is methyl mercaptan, which is the very chemical added to natural gas to scent it (pure natural gas is odorless).

Thanks. I was going to ask my aunt if she meant gas - like gas used to power things or gas like gas from a person. I thought it might be in poor taste to ask her that. But now. I think I have an idea of the answer.

Haha. ;) Well she handled it better than my mother did. The one I tried was frozen too. But after I thawed it and cut it open, she started running around the house holding her nose looking rather crazy, trying to figure out how to get rid of the smell. So then I watched her turn on all the ceiling fans and light a bunch of candles all over the place. And then, she forbade me from ever bringing another one into house. ;)

Mine didn't taste like caramelized onions though. But mine was bigger too, so probably a different cultivar. I liked mine!

Mine was still quite cold when I cut it open, even though it wasn't frozen. Now I am thinking twice about letting it warm up. Either way the taste was like carmalized onions, but sweet. The texture is very hard to describe, but when you look at it and how it breaks open when someone eats it, I think you can pretty well guess the texture.

11
Can you import live plants to Ecuador? I imagine it could be a real pain. If so, I can ship you Durian seedlings that I source here in the Dominican Republic.

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Weirdest tropical fruit plant?
« on: November 27, 2013, 03:13:56 PM »
Very nice. I have some baby cacao plants on the balcony. These are definitely very strange. But I think there may be different categories of "strange." For example I have a pomegranate seedling that was just about a week old when (somehow) I accidentally tore the top off the stem. For some reason I just left it there in the soil with another sprout. A day later the top was still green. A week later I picked it up to see what was going on and the little thing was growing a new root system! To me that is very weird.

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grow tent - construction and results
« on: November 25, 2013, 08:27:07 PM »
Nice set up. Would like to see more about the varieties you are growing.

14
It would be impossible to have someone sit in a local market trying to sell these unknown fruits without some creative marketing, such as sampling or bundling with other fruits.

John

I can imagine that Mangosteen from Costa Rica could be the best in the world because [marketing] "The unique composition of this kind of volcanic soil -which is found only in this small region in Costa Rica - is taken up by the Mangosteen tree and incorporated into its cellular structure. This creates a nutrient profile which is three times richer in antioxidants than Mangosteen from [whatever country]. Scientists are just beginning to understand all of the wonderful health benefits of Costa Rican Mangosteen."

Isn't this the key? Marketing. I once saw a comedian joking about how successful the cranberry marketing guy has been. He joked about all the flavors like cran-apple, cran-grape, etc. It think it comes down to marketing. Will guanabana sell in York, PA? That depends. If you just put it in the supermarket and wait, it probably won't sell.

But, if you make a website extolling all the cancer fighting benefits, link it in with all the independent YouTube videos saying the same, pump up the stories about how medical doctors in South America routinely use it as part of standard anti-cancer treatment, buy some ads in the local paper, and really just pump it up generally, THEN you could sell a processed guanabana product quite well I would think.

I do marketing for a living, but I am no farmer. I do think that the key is how the fruits are processed and marketed. When I left the U.S. a couple of years ago companies had already begun a major push on selling bottled coconut water. One company even had pop-star Rihanna as a celebrity endorser. So, yes - it's ALL about the processing, presentation, and marketing.

Remember when everyone was calmmoring to get Acai? There were even network marketing companies (MLM) which had Acai juice as their primary product and people were getting RICH off selling this stuff. I am talking about millionaires.

So if farmers in Hawaii can't recoup their investment on Rambutan it's because they haven't created a market, plain and simple. In 10 years when some guy "discovers" (ie. has the marketing prowess to convince the public) that Rambutan treats everything from diabetes to cancer, and has been used "For over 5000 years in traditional Chinese medicine - and the Chinese have the lowest incidence of diabetes in the world", then those farmers who ripped up their plants will be kicking themselves. I am not criticizing their business. I am just saying that anytime someone has a product they should be an active part of creating a market for that product.




15
This is a subject I think about a lot as I, basically, live from my farm production.
Like with many things in agriculture it depends on what you like to do.  Some people are row croppers, others are attracted to the quicker tree crops, then there are those willing to plant something like mangosteen.  Some like to sell their product at a farmers' market or roadside stand and others to a  packing house or ship to outside markets themselves.
Personally, I am focused on farmers markets, farm sales and small stores.  So, my tendency is to have a wide variety of fruits.  I will go to the farmers market with half a dozen different fruits.  Maybe I have a few boxes of mangosteen and rambutan and less than ten each of champedak, marang and durian.  For me this is profitable.
I planted more than 30 mangosteen about 25 years ago.  They have never been fertilized or sprayed.  they were planted at 10 meter spacing and I grew all kinds of things between them that I also sold like passion fruit, long bean, pineapples, etc. until the productive mangosteens shaded out the area between them.
The best money making crops for me so far are mangosteen, rambutan, salak, cacao, champedak, marang, lansium, black pepper, pulusan, and achacharu.  I am planting a lot of sapodilla, avocados, more durian, and other experimental stuff. 
It can be hard to know what will take off, I like to be on the cutting edge and not rely on what has worked in the past.  there are more and more people who eat only raw foods that show up here.  The "raw fooders" are very open to fruits like durian and eat lots of fruit.  You can make money with jakfruit here.  Vanilla is another that works for me.
Peter

Cool idea. I wondered what farmers do for all those years when they have to plant trees 30 feet apart.

16
Thanks for the reply. I am going to continue adding more vids of farms when possible.

17
Last weekend I went to a small papaya farm here in Santiago, Dominican Republic. Thought you all would enjoy the video.

http://youtu.be/zHGWfk7UQvY

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pomegranate Growers?
« on: November 01, 2013, 04:36:09 PM »
I have some seedlings from tradewinds seeds. Any pointers on how to grow them would be appreciated.

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango in Pot vs. in Greenhouse
« on: October 30, 2013, 05:37:56 PM »
Let it be in the pot. It looks happy there.

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: My Garden:
« on: October 28, 2013, 08:49:11 PM »
Nice collection. Sorry to hear about your plant man. Bummer.

21
Got the courage to do surgery this morning and see what's what. Here we have it.





Follow up question. On a mango, if I plant the curve below the soil line, will it sprout roots (which would be good) or cause problems?

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best banana variety?
« on: October 27, 2013, 04:03:34 PM »
Can we expand this thread to include best banana to be grown from seed? Anyone have experience with that?

23
One of my seedlings had the same problem cracking out from the seed too. I finally had to split the seed open for it to grow.
This is how it looks like now.






OMG. That has me practically speechless! Let me ask you, why didn't you plant the curve below the soil? Just asking.

24
I think your "main shoot" is the root? not sure. But that's what it lookslike for me.
Well, that would certainly be embarrassing! Lol.

Here are a few better shots of it.

Truthfully, I don't know what is going on with this thing.







25
OK. So, the main seedling on this mango has been trying to come out of the seed for at least 3 weeks, probably more. In the mean time the side shoots have emerged and are growing well. Is there anything I should do to help the main shoot, or will it just take its time? Any advice is appreciated.

Pics below are from 10-9 and then today 10-27. The video gives a better look (from this morning)

10-9


10-27



http://youtu.be/EfHL9DHTiuc

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