Author Topic: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood  (Read 8552 times)

Vlk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • Czech Republic
    • View Profile
    • exoticke-pestovani.webnode.cz
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2021, 08:53:33 AM »
Hello, thanks for replying!

That's some bad news, sorry to hear that. But good to hear that you're keeping up with your hobby and started to grow again.

Yes I know durian are not easy ones, it's more of an experiment for me to see what is possible in my climate, with and without greenhouse conditions. Also grafted plants don't grow as vigorous and tall as non grafted ones. Makes it easier for me to keep it under control in the longterm. If I manage to keep them alive and let's say it will flower someday, it would be a shame if it's self incompatible.
So far, the tap roots are digging deep into the soil, there are no signs of leafs yet. If they make it through winter, I will try to get some scions and graft them next year at the end of spring.
But til then I'm trying to find a source for scions. If it's all working as planned, I may will have a grafted plant to spare next year if you're interested.
The D. kinabaluensis seems promising, but seeds aren't that easy to obtain either, right?

Indeed, it was hard and must've been hundred times harder for my friend, who lost thousands of plants and incredibly rare species, many of which were already fruiting. He had one of the largest of collections. He told me this year he will never get back to it, which I understand.

From durio species, I had oxleyanus, graveolens, kutejensis, dulcis, kinabaluensis and zibethinus. As far as I remember, the one that grew best was oxleyanus, at least in the beginning. I was trying to get other species as well, especially testudinarum, but that seemed nearly impossible. :) D. kinabaluensis is fairly rare and quite hard to get, but definitely not impossible. I bought it on two separate occasions from two different sources, always with a success.

I've never heard of a flowering durian in the European region, but maybe such a plant is somewhere out there? And with the climate changes and temperatures rising, who knows what will be possible in the upcoming years? I've contacted several botanical gardens if they happen to have a mature plant that is already flowering, but I never found one.

I was thinking that if one would want to successfully grow a durian tree and make it fruit, you would need a huge, top-of-the-line greenhouse and pump millions into the project to maintain the optimal conditions throughout the year. Heating, artificial light, keeping humidity levels, and maintaining optimal quality of the soil (ideally they would need to be in the ground). But sadly, no one with spare millions has that kind of ambition I guess. :D

The reason I gave up on durians is exactly the above... I realized that I want to grow plants that I can later harvest fruit from and with durian, it just seems more like a dream. Not that I want to discourage you of course. It's a great challenge that can be exciting and motivational, pushing the boundaries of what's possible. That was my motivation all those years back - that, plus my love for the fruit, which is just out of this world.

In any case, my experience is that the seeds are sprouting perfectly, they grow quite fast and strong in the first couple of months and then they usually started to slow down and also somewhat deteriorate. Though I've seen a beautiful durian tree seedling from France I believe, which was growing in an apartment close to a heating pipe (which is usually bad for plants as it dries out the air) and it was looking incredible. I think it was about 2 years old.

The durians that my friend had were growing in a tropical greenhouse and they were growing much better, but still not as well as Artocarpus for instance. They were quite slow in their growth and the leaves didn't look entirely healthy. I think it's really a lottery when it comes to growing these as they are extremely sensitive.

But I think wild durians might be an interesting experiment. Either the above mentioned D. oxleyanus or D. kinabaluensis. You could also use one of these as a rootstock to graft zibethinus varietes on it. Might be worth the shot as well. I know we wanted to try graft durian onto Cullenia excelsa, which is related to durians and might be more vigorous and resistant. I don't know if that would work though.

I would definitely be interested in a grafted plant, thank you for the offer! I always wanted to acquire one back then but it seemed impossible... All the leads that I had (to grafted plants and scions) always led to a dead-end, unfortunately. But it's definitely not impossible!
Durian & avocado lover

svennagel97

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 38
    • Germany, NRW, 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2021, 11:14:24 AM »
Yes I only can imagine how frustrated he must have felt.
I also understand his decision.

I think that there maybe isn't enough experience made in growing durian out of it's natural environment to tell that it's impossible to make it bloom. Without artificial lighting, constant temperature and humidity it's nearly impossible to grow most of the tropical plants in many parts of Europe. I know that there are many producing cocoa plants for example in greenhouses. So why not Durian if the right conditions where found under greenhouse conditions?
I think in order of exploration and gaining new information it's okay to dream and experiment with that dreams.

To get back to durian, the biggest tree I saw was a Durio zibethinus in the botanical garden of Berlin. It was nearly 3 m (9,8 ft) tall the last time I was there. They also had a giant bread fruit tree that already reached the top of the roof with little fruits on it. So maybe there are more bigger specimens of Durian throughout Europe than one might think. The next time I get there, I will ask if they might know of a durian tree that flowered in other botanical gardens or private collectors they know of. They have a huge greenhouse for tropical fruit plants, I think they are well connected.

I also read that wild jungle durian make the best rootstocks for grafting, since they are well adapted to poor and soggy soil, deseases and stuff. But I guess that counts only for the parts these wild jungle durio are from?

I plan on documenting my growing experience, if they don't make it even through the first winter I save up the money for scions. If they are alive but struggle I have to think about it again. But if they thrive, I will definitely try to get some scions and share all the experiences I made in its own thread.

I also get why you don't want to try growing durian again, all your points are right. Normally I don't grow ultra tropicals, I focus more on dragon fruit, annona, plinia, Eugenia and other smaller shrubs. But I was lucky to try a really good fresh durian a few weeks ago and I fell so in love that I thought that's such nice fruit that I must honor it by growing it as a plant, even if it's just ornamental and not flowering. So I guess I'm becoming that guy that travels just for fresh durian from now on.

I definitely will let you know if my plants survived winter and found a person willing to sell me scions.

And if someone reading this and is willing to support my plan with some D99 or other self compatible durian varieties next year, please feel free to get in contact with me.  :D

Vlk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • Czech Republic
    • View Profile
    • exoticke-pestovani.webnode.cz
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2021, 12:37:41 PM »
Yes I only can imagine how frustrated he must have felt.
I also understand his decision.

I think that there maybe isn't enough experience made in growing durian out of it's natural environment to tell that it's impossible to make it bloom. Without artificial lighting, constant temperature and humidity it's nearly impossible to grow most of the tropical plants in many parts of Europe. I know that there are many producing cocoa plants for example in greenhouses. So why not Durian if the right conditions where found under greenhouse conditions?
I think in order of exploration and gaining new information it's okay to dream and experiment with that dreams.

To get back to durian, the biggest tree I saw was a Durio zibethinus in the botanical garden of Berlin. It was nearly 3 m (9,8 ft) tall the last time I was there. They also had a giant bread fruit tree that already reached the top of the roof with little fruits on it. So maybe there are more bigger specimens of Durian throughout Europe than one might think. The next time I get there, I will ask if they might know of a durian tree that flowered in other botanical gardens or private collectors they know of. They have a huge greenhouse for tropical fruit plants, I think they are well connected.

I also read that wild jungle durian make the best rootstocks for grafting, since they are well adapted to poor and soggy soil, deseases and stuff. But I guess that counts only for the parts these wild jungle durio are from?

I plan on documenting my growing experience, if they don't make it even through the first winter I save up the money for scions. If they are alive but struggle I have to think about it again. But if they thrive, I will definitely try to get some scions and share all the experiences I made in its own thread.

I also get why you don't want to try growing durian again, all your points are right. Normally I don't grow ultra tropicals, I focus more on dragon fruit, annona, plinia, Eugenia and other smaller shrubs. But I was lucky to try a really good fresh durian a few weeks ago and I fell so in love that I thought that's such nice fruit that I must honor it by growing it as a plant, even if it's just ornamental and not flowering. So I guess I'm becoming that guy that travels just for fresh durian from now on.

I definitely will let you know if my plants survived winter and found a person willing to sell me scions.

And if someone reading this and is willing to support my plan with some D99 or other self compatible durian varieties next year, please feel free to get in contact with me.  :D

Yeah, it must've been pretty devastating for him. He spent several decades building his collection...

You are right, there isn't much knowledge about that out there and that definitely shouldn't stand in the way of trying it out and see what's possible. :) You have all my support! And it's great to have a dream!

Wow, that's a pretty nice specimen! That's what I thought - there are so many botanical gardens out there with huge greenhouses, advanced technology, and tropical sections, so why wouldn't it be possible? What I think is that they might avoid this species due to the fact that the falling fruit might be dangerous and because of its controversial smell? :D In any case, that might be a perfect place to acquire scion. Because I am not sure if sending scions overseas is a viable solution - I imagine the scion would need to be very fresh in order to be successfully grafted onto a rootstock.

Definitely try to acquire some of the jungle durian (kutejensis and graveolens are fairly easy to get) and graft the zibethinus onto them. And maybe compare these with zibethinus grafted onto a zibethinus.

Haha, reading on your experience reminded me of myself back in 2013 when I tasted my first durian! I totally fell in love and I was absolutely blown away by the taste. I immediately sowed the seeds back then and that's how my passion for growing (and collecting durians) started. I also dreamed of traveling to Southeast Asia and try all the different varieties (as the only you can get here is mostly Mon Thong and that should be one of the least interesting ones!) and also jungle durians. That actually happened in 2018, but sadly enough, I was there during the time when durian wasn't in season. So I haven't tasted any local durian... But I still really want to. I think the jungle ones must be so unique in terms of taste!

Definitely keep me updated please, I am really interested in the topic of durians in Europe. :)
Durian & avocado lover

Gone tropo

  • Durian obsessed
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • Nth Qld Australia, zone 13a
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2021, 06:54:29 PM »
Any chance either of you could PM me your source of those durian seeds, graveolens etc? Im looking for some way to get suluk (zibenthius x graveolens) seeds?

Vlk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
    • Czech Republic
    • View Profile
    • exoticke-pestovani.webnode.cz
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2021, 08:23:08 AM »
Any chance either of you could PM me your source of those durian seeds, graveolens etc? Im looking for some way to get suluk (zibenthius x graveolens) seeds?
Hi there, all the wild durian seeds I ever got were from Maryoto and afriadoni. Maryoto is still actively selling here and I am not sure about afriadoni, he might not be active anymore. One batch of seeds of the Durio kinabaluensis I got from a friend of Lindsay from Year of the Durian. But she doesn't seem to sell seeds anymore.
Durian & avocado lover

Gone tropo

  • Durian obsessed
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • Nth Qld Australia, zone 13a
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2021, 06:57:43 PM »
Any chance either of you could PM me your source of those durian seeds, graveolens etc? Im looking for some way to get suluk (zibenthius x graveolens) seeds?
Hi there, all the wild durian seeds I ever got were from Maryoto and afriadoni. Maryoto is still actively selling here and I am not sure about afriadoni, he might not be active anymore. One batch of seeds of the Durio kinabaluensis I got from a friend of Lindsay from Year of the Durian. But she doesn't seem to sell seeds anymore.

Thanks mate Im already in touch with Maryoto

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3356
    • Pennsylvania (zone 6) w/ heated greenhouse
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2021, 11:59:10 AM »
I have some durian seedlings in my heated greenhouse that have seem perfectly healthy, though slow growing.  They survived winter just fine and are now about 2ft tall.  It should be possible for you also.

Meanwhile artocarpus grows like crazy, I have to majorly prune my jackfruit every few months because it reaches the ceiling.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 12:01:01 PM by brian »

elouicious

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1355
    • Houston, Tx
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2021, 03:15:57 PM »
I have some durian seedlings in my heated greenhouse that have seem perfectly healthy, though slow growing.  They survived winter just fine and are now about 2ft tall.  It should be possible for you also.

Meanwhile artocarpus grows like crazy, I have to majorly prune my jackfruit every few months because it reaches the ceiling.

Glad to know someone else is crazy enough to try growing durian in pots!

How many years old are yours?

I have Durio aff oxyleanus, and Durio graveolens so far @ about 1.5 years

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3356
    • Pennsylvania (zone 6) w/ heated greenhouse
    • View Profile
Re: Wanted: Durian/Artocarpus grafted seedlings or budwood
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2021, 08:34:24 PM »
Mine are 1.5yrs also.  I am not sure what type the are exactly, I don't know a whole lot about durian and mostly started them to test the limits of what is possible in a northern greenhouse.  I got the seeds from a fellow forum member