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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Got to get one,  Or get someone to make the cross for me.
It's a zone 8 variety, maybe 7b under optimal conditions.
Are you thinking about trying to backcross it back with trifoliate?

This will be very exciting. I am looking forward to see what the fruit eventually looks like. Might be several more years.

I would encourage you to possibly take some cuttings and grow them inside of a greenhouse too, just to speed the growth up.
(and in case you have an unexpectedly bad Winter)

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Micropropagation
« on: May 20, 2019, 03:47:37 PM »
I know this doesn't qualify as micropropagation but I have had success rooting what was basically just a leaf (half a leaf actually, I cut it to reduce surface area) with just a very tiny amount of stem attached. It requires humidity and the right level of warmth, and I used some rooting hormone too.

One permaculture strategy would be to first plant more drought tolerant plants around them to provide just a little bit of shade.
The usual rules don't apply in a hot desert; even sun-loving plants will appreciate partial shade.

Yes, in general grapes do well in hot dry weather, but a hot desert is testing the limits. They are going to need irrigation, at the very least. Surrounding plants as a windbreak helps to reduce evaporative losses also.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Poncirus
« on: May 20, 2019, 02:07:53 AM »
I wonder if it could be possible to cause genetic introgression into the naturalized poncirus genepool. Possibly by pollinating a few of the flowers with citrangequat pollen. You would think that over the long-term animals might select for the ones with better taste.

Thomasville citrangequat almost doesn't have any poncirus flavor, so that's an example of a second generation hybrid right there.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 18, 2019, 11:32:35 PM »
small new leaflets coming out of the Bloomsweet

It's not dead yet!

Lmao! May be time to find a new forum...
Was the original tree growing on its own roots, or was it grafted onto rootstock?

If that tree had been growing on its own roots to begin with, it would not need all this trouble now to keep it alive.
A tree on its own roots has a much longer lifespan, though does grow to be much bigger.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Oranges And Its Sugar Content
« on: May 15, 2019, 08:36:07 PM »
Fruit is healthy, but too much fruit, especially fruit juice since there's no fiber to slow down the absorption of sugar, is not.
Also fructose is notorious for not being as healthy for you metabolically as glucose (lots of fructose will make you tired and drained of energy, and much more likely to turn directly into stored fat).

Health is all about proper balance of the different food groups.

A small glass of orange juice every day is great and will add to your life. (Assuming you don't already have too much sugar from other things)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 15, 2019, 08:28:52 PM »
You're probably already doing this, but I'd keep some extra cuttings in case an unusually harsh Winter kills everything outside.
The trial can move along a lot faster if spare cuttings are kept of each cultivar. One will be growing fast inside, while being simultaneously tested outside.

It's possible, I know willow roots pump chemicals into the soil that make surrounding plants root more. Willow tea can even be used as a natural rooting hormone.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Orri Mandarin
« on: May 14, 2019, 12:05:33 AM »
The "Ori Tangerine" I tried was nice, kind of similar to a Lee, and I could taste just a little bit of that "orange" flavor (like Shasta Gold), but I definitely prefer Shasta Gold. The Ori was good, but not really excellent. The inside seemed to be just a little bit dry though so maybe I did not have a fresh one. That can make a lot of difference.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passe Crassane pear
« on: May 13, 2019, 02:17:52 AM »
whst was the taste like?
unfortunately didn't get a good chance to taste it because the fruits never seemed to fully develop and ripen, and were left on the tree too long trying to ripen and got kind of wrinkled skin. They were then left for a month to try to finish ripening inside, off the tree, but unfortunately it was no use.
It was probably because the tree is still immature and these were the very first fruits (maybe that combined with the lack of chill accumulation), the tree didn't have the energy to fully develop the fruits. Especially important for a hard Winter pear variety.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trying to root C. ichangensis
« on: May 12, 2019, 09:32:23 PM »
small root beginning to grow on Giant citron cutting:

This is my weakest looking cutting, practically a single leaf, started 10 days after the Ichang papeda cuttings were started.

I know supposedly citron and papeda are supposed to be more closely related to each other than other citrus, so I thought I would use this as a control, to be able to compare between the two.

If this little cutting has a root growth, I'm sure the others all do too. I don't want to dare disturb the soil though on the others.

(In the picture that green thing towards the bottom is an original thorn from the cutting, not a root)

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Seeking yuzu seed
« on: May 12, 2019, 12:10:07 PM »
It would be more appropriate to ask this request when Yuzu fruit are in season.

I've offered Yuzu seed in the past. There were no takers. And I am fully confident when I offer it again there will still be no responses at that time.

If you want fresh seed, the burden is on YOU to respond to the seller's offer at the right time.
Try coming back December.

(And you might need to consider an indoor germination area under artificial lighting, because I doubt the seeds are going to grow outside in the Winter)

I was able to visit One Green World, and was given a tour of the back area, and they successfully sprouted two of the seeds on ebay I had encouraged them to buy. They are just tiny seedlings right now. Not available for sale right now, but perhaps in a few years they will have propagated more of them.

These are supposedly a Procimequat x trifoliate hybrids that are edible almost like a regular kumquat.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang and Tiwanica lemon
« on: May 11, 2019, 12:25:19 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion on the tiwanica?
I've never personally tasted it before, but from what I've read it's not really eating quality. The Japanese used it to flavor vinegar, and as an ornamental, including using the branches full of fruit as ornamental decoration. It's a very vigorous grower and, as the Japanese name daidai implies, the fruit hang on the tree for a very long time.
I would imagine the fruit quality is much like a somewhat lower quality sour orange. If that's the case it may be useful for certain culinary uses, like perhaps making a marmalade, but is not something you're going to want to eat fresh out of hand.

I think one of our other forum members can comment on how they taste though:
The Daidai citrus I've had at past citrus shows were nasty bitter orange. I wouldn't eat it but that's just me.
(Taiwanica sometimes goes under the name Nanshodaidai or daidai)

Laaz, Charleston, SC 9a , said they tasted like "nasty bitter orange", "I wouldn't eat it but that's just me"

I don't know if this helps anyone at all but I've tasted Chinotto sour orange and can relate to his sentiments. The sour orange is theoretically edible but just very sour, not really the best flavor, despite the nice intense aroma, and perhaps a little bitter, though nothing like the type of awful bitterness from poncirus and its hybrids.
I could snack on one of the fruits while foraging if there was nothing else better to pick, though it's pretty seedy, would be more for the adventurous eater.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang and Tiwanica lemon
« on: May 11, 2019, 11:25:43 AM »
I guess, you took your info from
That is correct.

Hardy Citrus for the Southeast, by Tom McClendon, also lists "Tai-chang" as Citrus taiwanica x Ichang Lemon on page 30.
(It's under the heading "A Sour Orange Hybrid", which I believe is appropriate)

McKenzie Farms is listed as the first Hardy Citrus source in that publication, so I don't know if Tom McClendon got that information from Stan McKenzie, or Stan McKenzie got that information from Tom McClendon.

Anyway, I would guess that information is probably correct since I seem to remember (I might be wrong) people writing that the Taichang lemon was not really any cold hardier than Taiwanica lemon, and if Taichang lemon had a direct C. ichangensis parent, I would expect it to display much more cold hardiness. On the other hand, the small fruit size and relatively poor fruit quality could definitely be seen to suggest the opposite.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrumelo 5star in full bloom
« on: May 11, 2019, 11:09:08 AM »
Some old archived posts from the Citrus Growers Forum:
Location: Australia
23 March, 2010

In my climate, Swingle fruit are far better than Poncirus, something like a dull grapefruit flavor, with a fair hint of Poncirus flavor. The juice is ok for interests sake, I would say quite acceptable, but not comparable to common Citrus.
Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada [note: this is not where the citrus expo was held]
07 April, 2010

I tasted the Swingle citrumelo at last years citrus expo - the seeds were used in Stan McKenzie's seed spitting competition. They weren't as horrible tasting as I was led to believe. Definitely not grocery store fruit but a worth plant to grow outside the traditional citrus growing areas.

I have been told that the Dunstan citrumelo is MUCH better.

Also someone noted on the Cold-hardy citrus Wikipedia pages that "Semi-edible, 'Dunstan' is considered the most edible citrumelo."

I believe both Swingle and Dunstan are hybrids between Duncan grapefruit and trifoliate orange, so that would make them siblings.

One more post from somebody else:
December 3, 2013

My 'dunstan' citrumelo produced for the 1st time this year and they are surprisingly good. I squeezed a fruit and added slightly more water than juice and a little sugar. This tasted very much like grapefruit juice, in fact almost identical. Because these are more sour than grapefruit I bet they will be excellent used as a lemon or lime substitute if the juice is used straight. I plan on trying this very soon. i have also heard they make a very good "lemon" pie, one person from NC even told me they were better than the real thing. I am somewhat perplexed as to why these are so uncommon. This is a great find for anyone wanting to grow an edible Citrus in zone 7.
"Friend's first citrumelo fruit" (in the Palms & Cycads category) Gardenweb/Houzz forum

Okay, this last post is probably overly optimistic, but it does suggest that at least some people find the flavor to be not that bad.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: ilya...
« on: May 11, 2019, 02:43:54 AM »
I have a Thomasville seedling that is doing fairly well.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lumia lemon hybrid
« on: May 11, 2019, 02:41:41 AM »
Among the first "lemons" (or proto-lemons) that appeared in Italy, there were a few pomelo-citron hybrids.
This perhaps could be such a hybrid that then got crossed with a regular lemon (citron x sour orange).
There was all sorts of hybridization going on in Italy. Lemons got backcrossed with citron again to form new lemons. Italy has the most lemon varieties in the world.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meyer lemon, why?
« on: May 11, 2019, 01:46:37 AM »
Why is it everywhere you look, Meyer lemon is the main variety available? Meyer is the nastiest worst excuse for a lemon there is.
Ha ha, I agree with you.

But blind taste tests have indicated the majority of people prefer the taste of Meyer, perhaps because it is more mild and less acidic.

Meyer lemons also tend to have more cold hardiness and tend to be inclined to be more bountiful with fruit production.

They have a bad after taste & just don't compare to a "real" lemon.
If they have a bad aftertaste it's probably because you are leaving them on the tree too long. That seems to be a problem with Meyer, if the fruits are left on the tree too long they very often develop an unpleasant taste.
That being said, even if picked at the right time they still don't compare to a real lemon, in my opinion.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Valentine and Cocktail pomelo cold response
« on: May 10, 2019, 06:57:05 PM »
Over the years i have found pretty big discrepancies from what you people from US tell us about citrus and when i see from other italian members.Because of that i calculate a usda map zone for italy based on several weather stations, and as you can see i'm between zone 9a and 8b (Florence).
I have no doubt that is true. The U.S. Pacific Northwest climate is probably closer to the European climate than the climate of the U.S. South is.
I'm not saying you can completely extrapolate how things will perform in Europe based on how they performed in the Pacific Northwest, but it's definitely closer.
Also I think Italy is in a special climate area all its own, there's really nowhere else quite like it.
What I mean is that Northern Italy is already so far north in latitude (Rome would be somewhere between New York and Boston), and it's influenced by the Mediterranean sea, not very much influenced by an actual ocean, yet the climate is still relatively mild.
Europe is a climate zone anomaly compared to other parts of the world, because of all that water and the Gulf Stream current. No other major big civilization developed in the world so far north in latitude.

However a lot of the stuff people says it works for usda zone 9a at my place doesn't grow. Like bananas: i have been growing bananas for quite some times and attempted them in ground for several winter but more often than not they die to the corm (dwarf namwah).
Probably because you do not get enough heat. (Well, these days you do, but the season of high temperatures is not long enough)

That's kind of similar to the American Pacific Northwest region (particularly between about the middle of Oregon and Seattle).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrumelo 5star in full bloom
« on: May 10, 2019, 02:50:27 PM »
Why are you saying this? Have you ever been able to compare? According to your numerous posts you virtually have no experience in citrus growing.
I think you may be misinterpreting what I stated again.
I stated that Dunstan was superior to Swingle. Obviously 5star is an improvement on Swingle, and I don't really know how 5star compares to Dunstan.

If it helps, I have never personally tasted either Dunstan or Swingle, but reading over some old posts it was universally agreed upon that Dunstan was superior to Swingle, that Dunstan was almost like a sour grapefruit/lemon.

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