Author Topic: Best rootstock for green sapote?  (Read 3280 times)

starch

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Best rootstock for green sapote?
« on: April 11, 2016, 11:06:28 AM »
I have been reading that green sapote can be grafted onto both mamey sapote and ross sapote / canistel

I guess I have two questions:

1. Is ross sapote == canistel (Pouteria campechiana)? It seems like the answer is yes, or perhaps more accurately ross sapote is a type of canistel.

2. What would be the best seedling to graft a green sapote onto? Green sapote (Pouteria viridis), Mamey sapote (Pouteria sapota), or Canistel (Pouteria campechiana)? Is one seedling much more vigorous? The mamey seeds I planted are large and already had a nice taproot poking out of the shell. But I have not yet seen Green or Canistel seeds, maybe they will have more energy and put out a more vigorous seedling?

Has anyone experienced delayed graft incompatibility grafting green sapote onto mamey or canistel rootstock?

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gunnar429

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 11:25:06 AM »
I have been reading that green sapote can be grafted onto both mamey sapote and ross sapote / canistel

I guess I have two questions:

1. Is ross sapote == canistel (Pouteria campechiana)? It seems like the answer is yes, or perhaps more accurately ross sapote is a type of canistel.

2. What would be the best seedling to graft a green sapote onto? Green sapote (Pouteria viridis), Mamey sapote (Pouteria sapota), or Canistel (Pouteria campechiana)? Is one seedling much more vigorous? The mamey seeds I planted are large and already had a nice taproot poking out of the shell. But I have not yet seen Green or Canistel seeds, maybe they will have more energy and put out a more vigorous seedling?

Has anyone experienced delayed graft incompatibility grafting green sapote onto mamey or canistel rootstock?
I am no expert, but as I understand it, Ross sapote is still unidentified.  It is unknown whether it is a different species or subspecies of canistel.  At least, last I knew.

As for the rootstocks, I would say that Green Sapote would be the best rootstock for Green Sapote.  I believe GS is more hardy than mamey sapote which is pretty cold-sensitive.  If your mamey seedling is healthy, it wouldn't hurt to give it a try.  But I would bet that GS would be more forgiving--and more compatible since it's the same species
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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 12:13:34 PM »
I have read that canistel works but haven't seen it in person. I know some nurseries use mamey as rootstock for green but I think they sometimes get a gnarly graft union. I don't have much experience with this so maybe someone else can can chime in that has more experience. I have heard the same thing about Ross that gunnar mentioned. I label them as Pouteria sp Ross.
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nelesedulis

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2016, 12:33:55 PM »
Hi ,

In 2010, I mamey several grafts in other Sapotaceae, I know that the question is about green sapote, but the problem detected may be common to this also.

I grafted 4 mamey in canistel, 2 had success, however I planted the trees, but at the end of January, both broke with the wind 2.8 m tall, analyzing, I checked that the scion of mamey, was too heavy for the rootstock of canistel.

I have 1 tree grafted onto Pouteria macrophylla and 1 in  pouteria torta, I used other native pouterias but little success, are developing well, however the cup mamey is getting with diameter greater than the rootstock, I think it will break also .

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starch

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2016, 02:21:37 PM »
I am no expert, but as I understand it, Ross sapote is still unidentified.  It is unknown whether it is a different species or subspecies of canistel.  At least, last I knew.

ahhh, gotcha. Thanks.

As for the rootstocks, I would say that Green Sapote would be the best rootstock for Green Sapote.  I believe GS is more hardy than mamey sapote which is pretty cold-sensitive.  If your mamey seedling is healthy, it wouldn't hurt to give it a try.  But I would bet that GS would be more forgiving--and more compatible since it's the same species

I hear you about grafting GS onto GS. That is my first inclination. But I was wondering if there might be some advantages to be gained? For example, in Texas and here, we try to graft avocados onto Lula seedlings. They are vigorous and salt-tolerant, despite the fact that they are cold-sensitive. But since it is a rootstock only and keeping the graft low, the cold issue doesn't really show up.

My thought was to used the most vigorous rootstock (as long as it is compatible) to send energy up to the scion and use Green Sapote as the main cultivar since it is similar to Mamey (which I LOVE) but a little more cold tolerant.

That was my train of thought at any rate :)
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starch

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2016, 02:22:36 PM »
I have read that canistel works but haven't seen it in person. I know some nurseries use mamey as rootstock for green but I think they sometimes get a gnarly graft union. I don't have much experience with this so maybe someone else can can chime in that has more experience. I have heard the same thing about Ross that gunnar mentioned. I label them as Pouteria sp Ross.

Ahhh, gotcha. So maybe there are some incompatibilities that are present. Thanks for the info!
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starch

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2016, 02:26:15 PM »
Hi ,

In 2010, I mamey several grafts in other Sapotaceae, I know that the question is about green sapote, but the problem detected may be common to this also.

I grafted 4 mamey in canistel, 2 had success, however I planted the trees, but at the end of January, both broke with the wind 2.8 m tall, analyzing, I checked that the scion of mamey, was too heavy for the rootstock of canistel.

I have 1 tree grafted onto Pouteria macrophylla and 1 in  pouteria torta, I used other native pouterias but little success, are developing well, however the cup mamey is getting with diameter greater than the rootstock, I think it will break also .

Thanks nelesedulis, these are very interesting observations!

Here is a question on inter-species grafts:

- If the scion is more vigorous that the rootstock it would seem like it would try to draw more energy than the roots could provide and this rate difference would cause the kind of graft unions you are describing.
- But what about the opposite? What if the scion was less vigorous than the rootstock? Would the graft union be more in balance in that situation?

What do you think, is Mamey Sapote or Green Sapote a more vigorous grower?
- Mark

nelesedulis

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Re: Best rootstock for green sapote?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 02:45:15 PM »
HI,

I mamey sapote cultivation since 2006, so I'm more familiar with it.
I have about 120 adult trees and 40 young people.

The developments, I think the mamey grows faster than green sapote, but I say this from my experience.

can be in other places, green sapote grow faster.

I have noticed a distinct difference between the two trees, the mamey sapote, it grows in height and diameter, green sapote, it grows faster in height, but the stem becomes thinner.

I notice the green sapote growing on my mood as Lucuma, grow in height and not in diameter, I believe is by climatic factors.

Mamey is more like Brazilian pouetrias, I cultivate as I do with abiu, cutite, Aguaí, etc ...

One other note, I have six varieties of mamey, there are more powerful varieties than others, no doubt!

Green sapote seems more fragile.








Hi ,

In 2010, I mamey several grafts in other Sapotaceae, I know that the question is about green sapote, but the problem detected may be common to this also.

I grafted 4 mamey in canistel, 2 had success, however I planted the trees, but at the end of January, both broke with the wind 2.8 m tall, analyzing, I checked that the scion of mamey, was too heavy for the rootstock of canistel.

I have 1 tree grafted onto Pouteria macrophylla and 1 in  pouteria torta, I used other native pouterias but little success, are developing well, however the cup mamey is getting with diameter greater than the rootstock, I think it will break also .

Thanks nelesedulis, these are very interesting observations!

Here is a question on inter-species grafts:

- If the scion is more vigorous that the rootstock it would seem like it would try to draw more energy than the roots could provide and this rate difference would cause the kind of graft unions you are describing.
- But what about the opposite? What if the scion was less vigorous than the rootstock? Would the graft union be more in balance in that situation?

What do you think, is Mamey Sapote or Green Sapote a more vigorous grower?
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