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Author Topic: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya  (Read 10371 times)

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2017, 04:38:46 AM »

[/quote] I wonder if Joseph Simcox was the one that got them to Baker Creek.
[/quote]

Most probably. One really need to hunt them, they have a narrow grow space that even the locals don't know where to pick them.
I tried to contact him, but his website is down. I saw his pictures with the vascocelleas it seems like he took them last year in the winter.

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2017, 06:46:21 PM »
Does any one have more seeds left V. palandensis ? I want to grow it as well, Baker Creek doesn't have the seeds anymore, and neither J Simcox.

Now about "Mita" Vasconcellea candicans I found more information in Spanish. It seems like is Critically Endangered, with only few spots in Peru and one location in Ecuador left. The plant is dioecious. What is very interesting is that it grows leaves in the humid season and when the dry season comes it drops all of them then it starts to flower. Finally it sets fruit with very little leaves left when the soil is very dry. It grows on very poor soils and it might be very hardy. maybe 20F. It is not cultivated.
For those who bought the seeds I have bad news: the seeds don't germinate (around 0.5%). They have a very low germination rate, not that they are bad or nonviable, but because the have some germination inhibitors making the plant very difficult to propagate.
The good news is that is possible to germinate it "in vitro" though embryo rescue with good results.
I have only 10 seeds to make this attempt. If anyone else is trying this let me know we can share some research.

noochka1

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2017, 07:50:11 PM »
I'm afraid I don't have any more seeds, but I do have 7 plants.  If they manage to reach fruiting size I will be happy to send you some seeds :-)

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2017, 12:58:04 PM »
Thanks for the offer, I'll hopefully wait. I hope your plants will fruit. But it takes 2 years, and you need both males and females. Use large containers, rather than directly planted into soil. They have the same requirements of Barack, which I grow. Remember not to water too much during cold nights.
Just use misting several times a day, they get eater from their leaves. Papillon is from pre-montane humid forests with a very draining soil. They get the water from air.
I would add that this is a rare occasions to gets this plans as not many people venture into the jungle.
J Simcox climbed 3 hours into humid jungle to collect them. There is only one location at 1850m altitude. I don't think there will be another guy going there again. Pretty soon the logging companies will reach that site. So I expect in the next 10 years to become extinct.
The plant was discovered by Belgian reaserachers in 1995. The original trees were cut down two years later. In 1997 they found another spot not far away.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:19:48 PM by lebmung »

Jesssfl27

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2017, 11:33:04 PM »
Hello!

I came across this thread while doing some research. I was wondering how everyoneís seedlings were doing. I got a packet of seeds from baker creek and started them back in may. Only one seedling made it and is about a foot tall and looking good. Seeing as I need male and female, I bought more seeds from TWF but Iím having trouble with getting them to germinate.


 

noochka1

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2017, 06:24:48 AM »
Mine are doing well.  3 are about a foot as well, and one seems to be lagging behind at 5" or so.  Germination was very, very sketchy. 

Regards,
Scott

Cort

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2017, 10:45:52 PM »
Where specifically in Ecuador are the v. Palandesis found? Seems like a great vacation idea.
I need some of these seeds! Please anyone pm me if you find a place selling them!
Anyone have fruiting plants yet?

sanitarium

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2018, 11:00:16 AM »
Mine are doing well.  3 are about a foot as well, and one seems to be lagging behind at 5" or so.  Germination was very, very sketchy. 

Regards,
Scott

Do you have any update on your plants Scott? I have four plants and there is a little difference.. two have more smalish side leaves in the heel of main leaf and two havent have this feature..
I was wondering if it could be a sign of male/female? so would like to ask if you can see this difference in your seedlings?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 08:01:06 AM by sanitarium »
Daniel

noochka1

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2018, 12:29:26 PM »
Mine are doing well.  3 are about a foot as well, and one seems to be lagging behind at 5" or so.  Germination was very, very sketchy. 

Regards,
Scott

Do you have any update on your plants Scott? I have four plants and there is a little difference.. two have more smalish side leaves in the hell of main leaf and two havent have this feature..
I was wondering if it could be a sign of male/female? so would like to ask if you can see this difference in your seedlings?

I'm afraid that only 1 lonely plant remains.  They did not fare well at all for me. 

greenman62

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2018, 01:12:25 PM »
this species is rare, because it only grows in a certain climate
there is plenty of nearby rainforest for it to move into
which means its probably not very tolerant of environmental changes.


looking at the map
these 3 look like they might have more cold tolerance.

vasconcellea chilensis
vasconcellea glandulosa
vasconcellea quercifolia
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Collection-sites-of-the-21-Vasconcellea-species-within-tropical-America_fig1_40104874

seems almost impossible to get seed for any
except quercifolia

or maybe here.
http://www.huertasurbanas.com/seeds-exchange/
http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/aleCat.asp?title=Caricaceae&list=294

$20 for seed (even palanda)
https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/fruit_trees.shtml

A treelet endemic to Ecuador where it is known from a single population in the Andes of Zamora province.
Vasconcellea palandensis is endemic to Ecuador. It is known only from one population in Zamora-Chinchipe province.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/43573/0

Humid, premontane forest at elevations from 1790 - 1,850 metres
Ecuador
Seed - sow in individual containers or in a nursery seedbed in light shade. Germination can be slow and difficult, taking about 30 days
http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Vasconcellea+palandensis

 Highland papayas
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14701.0

Jesssfl27

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2018, 07:38:22 PM »









Iíve got two seedlings. The larger one I got from baker creek and the smaller one is from TWF. They arenít very cold tolerant. They were damaged at 45 F but not terribly. They also donít like wet feet. Leaf hoppers adore them which makes the leaves all ugly and curled. Hopefully I get male and female and not two of one sex. Iím having a hard time finding another source for the seeds  :(

noochka1

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2018, 06:47:49 AM »









Iíve got two seedlings. The larger one I got from baker creek and the smaller one is from TWF. They arenít very cold tolerant. They were damaged at 45 F but not terribly. They also donít like wet feet. Leaf hoppers adore them which makes the leaves all ugly and curled. Hopefully I get male and female and not two of one sex. Iím having a hard time finding another source for the seeds  :(

Jesssfl27, what soil are you using?  I've tried commerical potting soil, garden soil and various mixtures but the plants don't seem to thrive at all.  Mine is about the size of yours but nearly leafless and chlorotic.  Are you feeding yours?  If so, with what?   I'd like to keep mine alive, but I'm not having much luck.

Scott

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2018, 07:18:42 AM »
I grow babaco and chamburo,  and have done a lot of research on vasconcellea. I have seeds from 7 species that I am trying to germinate. Most germinate only in laboratory conditions.
The problem with papayas lies in the root system, once that is damaged root rot sets in. I have a solution for every problem of papayas in containers but I will not share them as it is my own research and invested years in trial and error.
To have a faster growth you need a deep container like 3 feet. Also your plants show signs of nutrient deficiency. A foliar spray containing microelements every 10 days will improve the appearance.
There is not much research on palanda. And who wants to go to the forest to pick up the seeds, he must be kidding. That is not a vacation to walk through jungle for 3 hours with snakes and other animals, especially to go there alone.
I know the exact location in case someone is so courageous and I asked many Ecuadorian friends to go to pick up some fruits, but they declined my offer. Those who have the plants you better preserve them. The forest where palanda is, will be cut in few years so it will become a extinct species soon.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 05:06:14 PM by lebmung »

Jesssfl27

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2018, 02:20:21 PM »









Iíve got two seedlings. The larger one I got from baker creek and the smaller one is from TWF. They arenít very cold tolerant. They were damaged at 45 F but not terribly. They also donít like wet feet. Leaf hoppers adore them which makes the leaves all ugly and curled. Hopefully I get male and female and not two of one sex. Iím having a hard time finding another source for the seeds  :(

Jesssfl27, what soil are you using?  I've tried commerical potting soil, garden soil and various mixtures but the plants don't seem to thrive at all.  Mine is about the size of yours but nearly leafless and chlorotic.  Are you feeding yours?  If so, with what?   I'd like to keep mine alive, but I'm not having much luck.

Scott

The larger one is in 1/3 parts sand, cow manure, and peat moss. Smaller one is in miracle grow natures care organic mix. Iíd say both are surviving and not thriving. Iíll definitely try the foliar feeding as per lebmungs suggestion. So far Iíve given oscomote plus and compost. They donít like wet feet at all. Iíve got them in fabric pots with the hope that itíll be difficult to overwater. Im currently at war with the leaf hoppers. Hopefully once thatís over theyíll perk up a bit.

sanitarium

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2018, 08:50:14 AM »
I grow banana and chamburo,  and have done a lot of research on vasconcellea. I have seeds from 7 species that I am trying to germinate. Most germinate only in laboratory conditions.
The problem with papayas lies in the root system, once that it's damaged root rot sets in. I have a solution for every problem of papayas in containers but I will not share them as it is my own research and invested years in trial and error.
To have a faster growth you need a deep container like 3 feet. Also your plants show signs of nutrient deficiency. A foliar spray every 10 days will improve the appearance.
There is not much research on palanda. And who wants to go to the forest to pick up the seeds, he must be kidding. That is not a vacation to walk through jungle for 3 hours with snakes and other animals, especially to go there alone.
I know the exact location in case someone is so courageous and I asked many Ecuadorian friends to go to pick up, but they declined my offer. Those who have the plants you better preserve them. The forest where palanda is will be cut in few years so it will become a extinct species soon.

do you have any palanda papaya growing?

Daniel

noochka1

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2018, 04:13:12 PM »









Iíve got two seedlings. The larger one I got from baker creek and the smaller one is from TWF. They arenít very cold tolerant. They were damaged at 45 F but not terribly. They also donít like wet feet. Leaf hoppers adore them which makes the leaves all ugly and curled. Hopefully I get male and female and not two of one sex. Iím having a hard time finding another source for the seeds  :(

Jesssfl27, what soil are you using?  I've tried commerical potting soil, garden soil and various mixtures but the plants don't seem to thrive at all.  Mine is about the size of yours but nearly leafless and chlorotic.  Are you feeding yours?  If so, with what?   I'd like to keep mine alive, but I'm not having much luck.

Scott

The larger one is in 1/3 parts sand, cow manure, and peat moss. Smaller one is in miracle grow natures care organic mix. Iíd say both are surviving and not thriving. Iíll definitely try the foliar feeding as per lebmungs suggestion. So far Iíve given oscomote plus and compost. They donít like wet feet at all. Iíve got them in fabric pots with the hope that itíll be difficult to overwater. Im currently at war with the leaf hoppers. Hopefully once thatís over theyíll perk up a bit.

I haven't had any problem with leaf hoppers, but that's probably because the plant doesn't seem to retain any leaves :-(  The trunk looks healthy and green, and there are some small leaves pushing, so there is hope.  I've moved it to a shaded area again as it doesn't seem to like direct sunlight at all.  I'm also considering moving it indoors because the region that it comes from seems to average about 70 degrees Fahrenheit for most of the year.  Maybe it just doesn't like the heat here in Miami.  I'd love suggestions.  I'd really like to keep it alive.

nattyfroootz

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2018, 05:10:27 PM »


I have 4 or 5 V. palandensis that I've grown from seed. I planted one in the ground this spring and it is just exploding! Heres one leaf that is about 3 times the size of my hand. It has begun its lateral branching and is a dense beautiful, healthy vasconcellea.  I'll post some pictures tonight, because it's really very nice.  Hopefully it will tolerate my clay soil this winter, haha.

Because, I think the knowledge of my process should be shared with anyone, I would gladly answer any questions!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 05:13:07 PM by nattyfroootz »

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2018, 05:18:21 PM »
Once again move the plants into a deep container 3 feet and like 20 gallon. A ne-o deep container will distorse the tap root and eventually stop the growth.
Yes in soil the grow very fast. They have similar grow habit like papayas and other vasconcellea.
I am afraid the one you planted in clay soil at first cold rain root rot will set and there is nothing you can do. Unfortunately also the soil gets contaminated and you can't grow another email in the same position. The only way out is to root the stem above so you can save the aerial plant.

nattyfroootz

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2018, 05:26:04 PM »
Yeah, I can't restrict these beautiful plants into pots, because they really seem to necessitate being in the ground.  I am in an area where a couple people have Babaco planted in the ground and it seems to manage just fine. Worst comes to worse I'll divert all water away from the tree.  And if even then, I would root cuttings.  I have found that planting them in a shallower, yet larger pot seems to be their preferred home. 

My palandensis in pots are growing in Baby B.U. potting soil, and they are fed compost tea every so often.  Keeping it organic and very light on the nutrient regiment, and they seem to be stoked.

nattyfroootz

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2018, 10:24:34 PM »









lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2018, 03:48:16 AM »
Your plants in pots are starving. They need nitrogen.
Carica species are heavy feeders,  they grow fast and make new leaves every week.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 03:51:48 AM by lebmung »

nattyfroootz

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2018, 11:40:04 AM »
I'll get around to feeding them one of these days. I am also very inconsistent with watering, as in they dry out a little between waterings. They seem to be pretty cool with it though.

lebmung

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2018, 04:07:14 PM »
Your watering seems to be good.
Daily watering will kill the plants. The soil needs to get dry first then you can water them. In fact never water the carica species 5 in to the trunk when the plants are young.

nattyfroootz

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2018, 08:11:12 PM »
Nice, I have a hoop house that is single layer plastic but stays a few degrees warmer and protects from wind and rain. I am thinking about planting a variety of different vasconcellea in here for protected conditions. I would probably dwarf them and keep using them for cuttings until flowers show up. 

sanitarium

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Re: rarest papaya on earth. palanda papaya
« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2018, 05:51:50 AM »
Your watering seems to be good.
Daily watering will kill the plants. The soil needs to get dry first then you can water them. In fact never water the carica species 5 in to the trunk when the plants are young.

What condition do you recommend for winter/overwintering? I am +- same zone as you..

thanks, Daniel
Daniel

 

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