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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on May 04, 2015, 10:21:35 AM

Title: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 04, 2015, 10:21:35 AM
Hello everyone, I'm looking for pictures of large Florida grafted/purchased Mango trees that are grown in California. Most of my trees are grafted trees purchased from Florida and they grow slowly. Even when they do grow with some vigor, the new growth is droopy and not strong and erect. I've seen some Florida grafted trees grown by well known and respected members of the CRFG and their grafted trees are dwarf compared to seedlings they grow and later grafted.

I would like to see pictures of large vigorous mango trees on their original rootstock. I'm sure there are some with nice large growing trees but I'm interested to see how many there actually are. If it turns out that very few people in California have large vigorous trees on Florida rootstock, we may want to consider an alternative method of growing Mangos here.

Please feel free to provide any pictures, thoughts, insight or ideas.

I'm thinking that I will be planting a lot more mango seeds directly into the ground and grafting them at the appropriate time. Thanks in advance!

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: michsu on May 04, 2015, 10:28:19 AM
This WAS my Coconut Cream before it died.. somehow, I killed it by either putting a stake nearby and hitting a major root or overwatering.. but I water the same every other day.. I think it died after I inserted a big stake to hold up the tree.. this isn't a LARGE tree at all.. well, the tree was basically going to fall over.. none of the other trees do that though.. I have other trees and they just get taller and taller without bending forward..


(http://s28.postimg.cc/voocr3vop/Coconut_Cream_Mango.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/voocr3vop/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: JF on May 04, 2015, 10:58:52 AM
Simon you've seen Leo's and Eunice's orchard and they were force to use California rootstock for their mango trees. Eunice has her trees on Piña rootstock because of the lack of vigor in turpentine
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: behlgarden on May 04, 2015, 11:31:30 AM
Simon, my Alphonso came from Florida and its a monster grower. but Alphonso are droopy in growth anyway so its hard to say. I can tell you one thing, Ataulfo root stock is much aggressive than manila, at least per my obesrvation, key is to not buy any plant bigger than 3 gal, as 7Gal and bigger plants tend to get rootbound and don't establish well, specially here in CA.

this is the reason I chose the route of grafting, now all my plants are grafted on 3 gal manila. Ataulfo are hard to find.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: barath on May 04, 2015, 12:01:46 PM
Behl, could I ask a maybe dumb question?  When you say that Ataulfo is hard to find, I am a bit surprised because that is the main variety that is sold at the grocery here, whereas "true Manila" is pretty much never sold.  Are you using these grocery store seeds as rootstock, or do you have some other source for these rootstock seeds?

I have been planting lots of Ataulfo seeds as rootstock here, but it's hard for me to compare.  I have noticed that two Florida mangos (Coconut Cream and Lemon Zest) I have in pots are growing slowly in the same environment that a La Verne "manila" is growing like crazy.

By the way, Tim Thompson said that he's using Turpentine rootstock for the current orders of his mangos, and that he has developed a "improved Turpentine" of some sort that he will eventually switch over to.  I didn't get a chance to ask him the details of why.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: behlgarden on May 04, 2015, 12:19:11 PM
Barath, what I meant hard to find is that not many offer Ataulfo rootstock for sale. I don't have time or patience to grow from seed for grafting. I buy my manila rootstock from Costco when they have a sale, its hard to predict when that happens.

I was fortunate to buy several ataulfo 3-gal rootstock 3 years ago from a nyrsery in North San Diego area, that nursery got sold and they no longer have it.

My one mango that I grafted in Aug last year grew 4' with over 15 branches on Ataulfo rootstock. same variety graft grafted in Sep last year grew only 12" on Manila. difference of course is that manila was in pot in the greenhouse. I will get true comparison this year as both are in the ground now.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: barath on May 04, 2015, 01:32:09 PM
Behl, thanks, that makes sense.  I will save all my Ataulfo seeds then!  I have been growing them in a greenhouse and they do great.  I don't have land to grow them direct seeded at the moment, but hope to try someday.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: MangoFang on May 04, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
Yeah, Simon, I've had the same puzzling observation on my diff. Florida-created mangoes -
some grow like crazy - the Alphonso and Valencia Pride and Lemon Zest - while others seems
to crawl - the Rosigold and Coconut Cream and Pina Colada (realizing of course some varieties
grow slower anyway) - but I do wonder just how the CA rootstock (which I think is normally manila -
at least from LaVerne) would do in a comparison test.  Don't have the time or room to do that of
course.....

Thanks for the Tip Behl on Ataulfo as a rootstock.  I'll start planting the seeds I get from now on.....

Garfy
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 04, 2015, 10:15:55 PM
Yes Leo and Eunice's mango trees are huge and beautiful. Leo has a Kent on Florida rootstock and it is one of his smallest trees considering its been in the ground for many years.

I have many Ataulfo/Manilla/Champaigne seeds planted this year but from my observations last year, I had the best success grafting onto Kent/Haden/Tommy Atkins seedlings, not that they will necessarily grow better.

Mischu, did you let your Coconut Cream hold fruit last year?

Gary, I've noticed the same, Valencia Pride, Keitt, Alphonso and Lemon Zest seem to grow just fine on Florida rootstock but many others aren't thriving on it.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: murahilin on May 05, 2015, 06:29:28 AM
This WAS my Coconut Cream before it died.. somehow, I killed it by either putting a stake nearby and hitting a major root or overwatering.. but I water the same every other day.. I think it died after I inserted a big stake to hold up the tree.. this isn't a LARGE tree at all.. well, the tree was basically going to fall over.. none of the other trees do that though.. I have other trees and they just get taller and taller without bending forward..


(http://s28.postimg.cc/voocr3vop/Coconut_Cream_Mango.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/voocr3vop/)

It looks like there is damage to the trunk at the base. Is that weed whacker damage?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: murahilin on May 05, 2015, 06:31:40 AM
Hello everyone, I'm looking for pictures of large Florida grafted/purchased Mango trees that are grown in California. Most of my trees are grafted trees purchased from Florida and they grow slowly. Even when they do grow with some vigor, the new growth is droopy and not strong and erect. I've seen some Florida grafted trees grown by well known and respected members of the CRFG and their grafted trees are dwarf compared to seedlings they grow and later grafted.

I would like to see pictures of large vigorous mango trees on their original rootstock. I'm sure there are some with nice large growing trees but I'm interested to see how many there actually are. If it turns out that very few people in California have large vigorous trees on Florida rootstock, we may want to consider an alternative method of growing Mangos here.

Please feel free to provide any pictures, thoughts, insight or ideas.

I'm thinking that I will be planting a lot more mango seeds directly into the ground and grafting them at the appropriate time. Thanks in advance!

Simon

You should try multiple rootstocks on one tree! You may get better growth by adding a California seedling as an additional rootstock. Maybe you could plant a few seeds near the Florida grown three gallon and then approach graft them. That may solve your problem.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Samu on May 05, 2015, 12:07:44 PM
You should try multiple rootstocks on one tree! You may get better growth by adding a California seedling as an additional rootstock. Maybe you could plant a few seeds near the Florida grown three gallon and then approach graft them. That may solve your problem.

Yes, I already planted few seeds near my trees. My question is, when you do approach grafting from the new seedling to the tree, you do it at the tree's rootstock trunk below the tree's original graft point, or above it's original graft point?  Or it doesn't  matter?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 05, 2015, 03:41:07 PM
Hey Sheehan, I've got some seedlings planted next to my Florida grafted mango trees but the wood on the grafted trees is too old and hard. I plan on multiple root stocking the seedlings planted near the base of my grafted trees and then grafting on top of the multiple rootstock.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: rliou on May 05, 2015, 04:19:53 PM
(http://s22.postimg.cc/cu2o1atxp/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cu2o1atxp/)
My Peach cobbler.  I pugged it upon purchase and it seems to be doing well


(http://s22.postimg.cc/z7aeo3uvh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/z7aeo3uvh/)
Kesar mango.  Grows really nicely.  Put out a lot vegetative growth last year


(http://s22.postimg.cc/wneru07bh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wneru07bh/)
Sweet tart.  Bought as three gallon from florida.  Not much vegetative growth


(http://s22.postimg.cc/4ys4mhkb1/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4ys4mhkb1/)
My ugly betty.  Also pugged upon purchase and have a very dwarfish growth habbit for me

(http://s22.postimg.cc/jgkqgqm8d/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jgkqgqm8d/)
This is my lemon zest on turpinetine.  Very vigorous grower though it seems chronically thirsty (though i was told lz always have wavy leaves and behave like its has too little water). 1 year in ground and spent a year in the pot

(http://s22.postimg.cc/vtxknnbwt/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vtxknnbwt/)
This is my mahachinok.  Pretty vigorous. 2 years in ground. Gave me a few fruits last year



(http://s8.postimg.cc/6pms8p435/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6pms8p435/)
Keitt mango.  Tall and lanky.  Behaves like a dwarf for me in ground

(http://s8.postimg.cc/a7ys534z5/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/a7ys534z5/)
This is my irwin, bought as 7 gal.  Behaves like an ultra dwarf
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: behlgarden on May 05, 2015, 04:27:00 PM
thanks Robert, those trees look like missing something. that could be minerals, microbes in soil, etc. may be you need to look to switch your fert. also, overwintering could be another thing to look at. I have a mango tree I got from HD, its grafted on manila that has grown 12" in 3 years. soil mostly stays moist there, gets good sun, I fertilize well, but it just looks like crap with no growth. it did produce few mangoes last year, but rootstock is less than 3/4" it being a 4-yr old. 
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: rliou on May 05, 2015, 04:56:21 PM
It could be.  I tend to have a heavier hand in watering so I may over water a bit.  I usually fertilize with slow release citrus fertilizer once every other month.  maybe I need to get them some foliar spray.  My coconut cream and alphonso (not pictured) are more vigorous trees with the trunk about the size of coke can.  But I am not sure it that's simply because they are in a sunnier location (they are south facing and gets direct sun all afternoon) or simply because they are more vigorous.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 03, 2016, 02:06:23 PM
Anybody have updates on their Mango trees that are purchased from Florida or are known to have come from a nursery out of Florida?

I'm especially interested to hear if you have had trees that have died or have just been sluggish in growth or have extremely droopy growth.

I would also love to hear of success stories of your Florida grafted mango trees. I know there are already a few reports of some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties like Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest and Alphonso. Thanks,

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: raiders36 on July 03, 2016, 03:09:58 PM
I planted 8 mango trees of different varieties 3 year ago. 5 died especially during flowering. Valencia grows like a snail. Nam doc Mai is swallowed up by the passion fruit vine but still alive. Ugly Betty doesn't look too good. Branches blacking and drying but managed to put some new growth at the lower trunk. All came from Toptropical. All their tree are healthy when I got it. I believe the root stock is the problem.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Stan on July 03, 2016, 03:34:41 PM
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: bsbullie on July 03, 2016, 03:48:03 PM
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: shaneatwell on July 03, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
I got a NDM#4 and LZ from florida coming on two years ago. NDM died within months. LZ started showing same symptoms a year after the NDM died. I cut it down to within a few inches of the graft, treated with Infuse and it is pushing right now. Have hit it and another seedling mango (probable Haden) that had a black patch on its trunk a couple more times since cutting the LZ. Not terribly optimistic. Put some more seeds and seedlings nearby and some of them are still alive.

Discussed here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=19617.msg243000#msg243000 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=19617.msg243000#msg243000)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: ClayMango on July 03, 2016, 07:15:37 PM
Before I shipped out to VA due the Navy's change of command for my assignment.... My 7 Gallon trees from TT were all Monsters, especially my Edward and NDM after a little under 2 years.....and with heavy frost pruning as well... could have easily been larger.... my 3 gallon trees seemed to grow a lot slower, but most of them were also potted as well.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 03, 2016, 07:18:51 PM
Thanks for the report Clay! Do you know if the current owners kept the trees? It usually takes several years before the trees start to decline and get droopy.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Tropic_Al on July 03, 2016, 09:14:29 PM
(https://s32.postimg.cc/ta6vm6chd/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ta6vm6chd/)
I got this NDM as a 7 gallon a couple of years ago from Champa nursery, but with a TT tag on it.
It's a pretty vigorous grower, but tends to grow horizontally rather than up. Most of the time I tip prune it, it flushes only one branch; thus, elongating the same branch. It would start to get really heavy, so I end up cutting it back because I fear that it would break.

Allan
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Stan on July 03, 2016, 09:51:39 PM
My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: ClayMango on July 03, 2016, 10:29:41 PM
Thanks for the report Clay! Do you know if the current owners kept the trees? It usually takes several years before the trees start to decline and get droopy.

Simon

Unfortunately Simon, in the process of getting my Home ready for rent, l Let my trees go for about 4 months, All my Tropicals bit the dust in the Winter.... I managed to take My CC with me here in VA, basically got pugged from the Winter.....just sent out it's first flush a month ago.... Hard times my friend....look to start over one day when I retire.... Hopefully in Fallbrook CA or Deluz Temecula.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: bsbullie on July 03, 2016, 10:55:47 PM
.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: bsbullie on July 03, 2016, 10:59:34 PM
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?
Title: Re: Turpentine vs Manilla Rootstock
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on July 03, 2016, 11:11:57 PM
Below are some photos to contrast and compare the Florida turpentine root-stock and the manilla root-stock hear in SoCal. The first photo is of two Glenn mango trees taken in late May. The Glenn of the left in a 7 gallon container was purchased from TT last year in Florida and the Glenn on the right was purchased early this year from Mimosa Nursery and was grafted on manilla rootstock in a 5 gallon container. You can see from the photo the droopy appearance of the Florida Glenn and while both are putting on a new growth flush now the manilla Glenn has more robust growth and is definally growing faster.

The second photo shows two Mallika mango trees with both in 15 gallon containers. The tree on the left is a manilla graft while the tree on the right is a Florida Turpentine graft.

The last photo is a mango tree I saw on the property next to Atkins Nursery in Fallbrook California last year. It looks like a manilla seedling that is still growing and looks quite healthy. If I had to guess I would say it's about 10 years old and 12 feet tall and wide.

Johnny
     
(https://s31.postimg.cc/n0kcvr053/IMG_3367_Two_Glenn_Mango_Trees_on_Different_Roo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/n0kcvr053/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/pw21gctiv/IMG_4869_Two_Mallika_Mango_Trees_with_different.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pw21gctiv/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/rp4y4oepj/IMG_9000_Mango_Tree_Full_Grown_in_Fallbrook_Cal.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rp4y4oepj/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Guanabanus on July 03, 2016, 11:42:48 PM
Very interesting.

Here in Florida we are increasingly aware of root-stock differences, for different varieties of scions.   And field observations by final buyers can be hugely relevant.

At least equally as relevant as different genetics of the root-stocks are the following practices:

Were the 1-gallon trees transplanted, at the nursery, into 3-gallon pots at the correct depth--- with the bases of the top roots showing --- or were they buried?
Repeat at transplanting into the ground.

Did the nursery use a mix with good drainage, or was it mucky or composty?

Were circling roots cut away from the root-ball when the 1-gallon mango was transplanted in the nursery to a 3-gallon pot?  Or was the root-ball left intact, to gradually become pot bound after being removed from the pot?  And then maybe to become a wood bagel?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: raimeiken on July 03, 2016, 11:56:10 PM
Anybody have updates on their Mango trees that are purchased from Florida or are known to have come from a nursery out of Florida?

I'm especially interested to hear if you have had trees that have died or have just been sluggish in growth or have extremely droopy growth.

I would also love to hear of success stories of your Florida grafted mango trees. I know there are already a few reports of some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties like Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest and Alphonso. Thanks,

Simon

I've killed three mangoes so far from Florida. First one was an Alphonso. Grew quite well but droopy. Died from a fungal disease after a year in ground though. Started to observe sap slowly leaking from the trunk, especially after watering it, then it declined from there.

Second and third tree were Lemon zest (15gal) and Coconut cream (7gal) both planted in ground. Amended soil and mulch. Grew fine for the first six months. Tip pruning them along the way. CC had droopy new growth. LZ very vigorous, but not droopy. Come fall of last year, they halted their growth and their tips started turning brown and dying back. Sap also leaking from trunk or branches. I tried fungicides, thinking it could be fungal disease again. They made it through winter but had to hack back a lot of bigger limbs. Spring of this year both started growing again, no more browning tips. But summer hit and they both fried. I don't think they were fully healthy and ready for the high temps. I think both succumb to mango dieback disease. I first observed it on the LZ, and I think got passed onto the CC via my pruning shears not knowing the other tree was sick to begin with.

Now I'm down to two mango trees. Fruit punch from Florida also (3gal) planted in ground this spring and doing well so far. The other mango tree is the one from Tim Thompson 'Pineapple' mango. That one is growing very very well. Not sure what rootstock it's on but so far it's very healthy. Planning to graft onto it later this fall.

I'm trying not to water them as much as the ones that died. I think over watering them stressed the trees and brought in the fungal disease.

Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: JF on July 04, 2016, 12:28:11 AM
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?


Rob

this hombre doesn't comprende
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Guanabanus on July 04, 2016, 12:44:28 AM
Sapping out from wounds is usually from a bacterial infection or Copper deficiency.  Either way, spray Copper.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2016, 01:33:50 AM
Very interesting.

Here in Florida we are increasingly aware of root-stock differences, for different varieties of scions.   And field observations by final buyers can be hugely relevant.

At least equally as relevant as different genetics of the root-stocks are the following practices:

Were the 1-gallon trees transplanted, at the nursery, into 3-gallon pots at the correct depth--- with the bases of the top roots showing --- or were they buried?
Repeat at transplanting into the ground.

Did the nursery use a mix with good drainage, or was it mucky or composty?

Were circling roots cut away from the root-ball when the 1-gallon mango was transplanted in the nursery to a 3-gallon pot?  Or was the root-ball left intact, to gradually become pot bound after being removed from the pot?  And then maybe to become a wood bagel?

Har, those are great points you bring up and I just wanted to clarify that not all "Turpentine" rootstocks perform poorly in California. Leo actually has some large trees on seedling Turpentine rootstocks and I'm not sure exactly why the rootstocks that the Florida nurseries use perform so poorly but I believe it has something to do with the pH and poorer adaptability to growing in cooler climates. I hope we can all share our knowledge and learn together.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: marklee on July 04, 2016, 02:38:19 AM
Simon, most of the mangos I have from Florida that are in the ground now are very, I mean very slow growers. For example a Rosigold that has been planted for about 4 years has never put out new growth, it flowered for the first time this year. It looks droopy and almost ready to leave this world. For example other Florida trees Neelam, Thom pi Khan, Cac, Fruit Punch, are hardly growing. The only one from Florida that is doing great is Piña Colada, it is putting out plenty of growth. I have resorted to grafting the Florida varieties like everyone else onto locally grown seeds. The most 2 vigorous trees I have are a Corriente seedling from Cal Tropics and a polyembrionic seedling I started from one of Paul Thompson's fruits from his Edgehill property. So it sounds like most of the Florida grown trees either die or fail to thrive here. One person here in San Diego county has many Florida grown trees on his property and every time I see them, they seem to be the same size as the year before, but some do fruit ok.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: raimeiken on July 04, 2016, 09:44:18 AM
Are you guys amending your planting holes?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
I've tried amending my soil and I've also planted in holes that weren't amended. My seedlings and Lavern Manilla mango trees are planted in the same soil as the Florida trees and only the florida trees perform poorly.

Here is a Carrie mango on Florida rootstock. It was planted into the ground about two years ago and constantly flowers and fruits with 0-1 veg flush a year. The branches and leaves look horrible, it could be phomopsis slowing it down, not sure.

Anyways, because of its slow progress, I planted several seedlings in the same hole so same soil, same water and same fertilizer. As you can see in the picture, the seedlings have put on two vegetative growth flushes and I believe they will overtake the Carrie in 1-2 years. one of the seedlings is I grafted and the other seedling is grafted with Venus. The. Venus flowered and tried to hold fruit which I removed.

The largest tallest tree is the Carrie but it is much older than the seedlings which were planted last year IIRC

Simon
(https://s31.postimg.cc/lsjur2kef/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lsjur2kef/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/x66e29ux3/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/x66e29ux3/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: barath on July 04, 2016, 01:06:42 PM
Anyways, because of its slow progress, I planted several seedlings in the same hole so same soil, same water and same fertilizer. As you can see in the picture, the seedlings have put on two vegetative growth flushes and I believe they will overtake the Carrie in 1-2 years. one of the seedlings is I grafted and the other seedling is grafted with Venus. The. Venus flowered and tried to hold fruit which I removed.

Are you planning on approach grafting the seedlings to multi-rootstock the Florida tree?  Have you tried that in the past, and does that work to fix the Florida rootstock syndrome?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2016, 01:21:38 PM
Hey Barath, that was my original intent when I came up with the idea 1-2 years ago but I decided not to approach graft the Florida rootstock for a couple reasons. #1 is because the Florida rootstock trees are older and the trunk is no longer green so I will have fewer takes on my approach graft. #2 is because another issue with Florida rootstock is the droopy growth. By adding additional rootstocks to the Florida rootstock, I may be increasing the rate of the droopy growth.

The seedlings and Lavern Manilla grow so well that it's easier to take scions from my Florida trees and graft them onto the seedlings and Manilla rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: JF on July 04, 2016, 02:41:44 PM
Hey Barath, that was my original intent when I came up with the idea 1-2 years ago but I decided not to approach graft the Florida rootstock for a couple reasons. #1 is because the Florida rootstock trees are older and the trunk is no longer green so I will have fewer takes on my approach graft. #2 is because another issue with Florida rootstock is the droopy growth. By adding additional rootstocks to the Florida rootstock, I may be increasing the rate of the droopy growth.

The seedlings and Lavern Manilla grow so well that it's easier to take scions from my Florida trees and graft them onto the seedlings and Manilla rootstocks.

mon

Hey Simon
There are Only a few turpentine Florida mangos that have adapted well to our soil and climate. One of them being cogshal which has a steady growth rate and excellent production. Most of my trees are grafted onto ataufo or Manila rootstock. I have a Peggy that Leo gave me a few years ago that's on Keith rootstock that grows very slow. Most of Eunice's giant trees were grafted on piña rootstock which is a Manila typed mango from the Philippines. All of her turpentine Florida trees were dwarf and poor producer except for her tommy that produce well but was only 7-8' after 40 years. 
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2016, 02:54:09 PM
Thanks for the report JF, I am also in the process of converting my Mango trees to be on Manilla/Ataulfo aside from my experiments. Eunices trees are huge and extremely fruitful. I hope other growers out there realize the dramatic differences in growth between the different types of rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Samu on July 04, 2016, 03:47:18 PM
Hi Simon,
Not sure if this photo below is useful or not, but here's my NDM scion grafted onto
Manila rootstock last August 2015, and it's size today. I lifted a few leaves with a piece
of wire before snapping the photo so you can see the relative size of it's original scion, which
was about pencil size.

(http://i.imgur.com/aenPID0m.jpg)

By the way, what did you find the different result, if any, between planting from pot into a hole
in the ground with soil amendment added or without? Sorry if you already answer this,
thanks!
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: knlim000 on July 04, 2016, 05:51:35 PM
For us newbies, how can you tell the different type of rootstocks?  How do I  know what kind of rootstocks I have? 
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2016, 07:34:59 PM
Thanks for the pictures Sam, the NDM looks really healthy on the Manilla rootstock. My situation for amended vs non amended planting holes is different than most other growers because I plant on mini mounds. If you plant in an amended hole, the organic amendments become food for microbial and insect life which eventually breaks down and your amended hole will sink and settle a bit. If you over amend with organics, the soil will become very heavy and stay wet for long periods of time but my holes are elevated to help with drainage.

For my newer plantings, I loosen the soil in the square shaped hole and backfill with the native soil but I amend with about 20-30% topsoil mixed in with my native heavy clay soil. I also seed my backfill soil with a handful of actinomycetes from bagged soil and I also add beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi. All my amendments really go on as a top dressing and do not go into the backfill soil.

I feel that too many people over amend with organic matter which can cause root issues several years later. If my soil were a bit better, I would backfill with 100% native soil but my soil is so bad it repels water like rain off a ducks back.

Several of my trees have been in the ground for about 4 years now including several citrus and they are all really healthy and hold more fruit than I can use.

Knlim000, if your tree was purchased from mail order from Florida or it has a Pine Island Nursery tag on it, it is likely on Florida Turpentine rootstock. Lavern Manilla is an excellent proven rootstock here in California and I highly recommend it. Almost any seedlings from store bought mangos have made great rootstock so far but this is much too early to make any conclusions.

Seedling mango trees planted directly into the ground can turn into huge trees. Leo tells me that seedlings planted into pots and then planted into the ground can also turn into huge trees if you ensure the roots are not restricted and pot bound. Take a look at these huge mango trees in California.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.0)

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: ClayMango on July 05, 2016, 09:14:21 AM
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Tim on July 05, 2016, 04:24:23 PM
Please stay on topic and refrain from name calling, KEYBOARD BOXING does not help anyone or anything grow any better.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: shaneatwell on July 05, 2016, 08:45:47 PM
Simon, One thing I've been contemplating is burying the graft. I've read about it in other contexts. Pretty much how all avocados on clonal rootstocks are produced. I've done it with one other tree. Eventually your variety would be growing on its own roots.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 05, 2016, 09:20:23 PM
Shane, I remember seeing the tutorial on how clonal avocado rootstocks are created and that is an interesting idea worth testing out. It would be like a mango air layer with Turpentine roots on the bottom.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Guanabanus on July 06, 2016, 09:24:38 AM
Sounds risky---  burying fruit-tree trunks above the root-crown often causes gradual decline; or roots circling the trunk above the root-crown, which eventually tighten and girdle the tree; or even sometimes trunk infections that cause rapid decline.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 06, 2016, 09:39:58 AM
Har brings up excellent points and now that I think about it some more, I don't really see the benefits of this technique unless we have found a superior rootstock for which we would like to propogate.

Shane, if you try this technique, it may, or may not, be more successful with younger plants in the green wood stage. I believe the hardened brown trunk stage has already differentiated into corky bark cells which may be more difficult to induce roots on. If I Recall Correctly, the Avocado clonal rootstock propagation technique used young plants.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: shaneatwell on July 06, 2016, 09:41:38 PM
I wouldn't do it on a brand new $200 tree, but i will be doing it on my nearly dead LZ if my current approach fails.

I thought of another example. There's a technique they use in Texas of grafting a cold tolerant avocado onto a salt tolerant (but cold intolerant) rootstock and then burying the graft.

Probably good idea not to use too much organic matter, to discourage disease. Don't understand why roots would circle. I could definitely see a tree declining if it turns out it has disease susceptible roots. Still willing to try.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Guanabanus on July 06, 2016, 10:49:33 PM
One frequently sees fruit trees and shade trees with roots circling the trunk and tightening into it, where people have piled mulch against the trunk. (We sarcastically refer to this practice as "mulch volcanoes.")  When the mulch rots away, the damage is high and dry and very visible.  When roots circle because the plant was buried too deeply, they usually remain out of sight.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Guanabanus on July 06, 2016, 10:57:00 PM
If any more trees from Florida die on you all out there, it would be interesting to dig them out, removing a slightly larger hunk of dirt than the size of the pots they came in, and wash out the soil from the roots, to investigate nursery potting up and field transplanting practices.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: knlim000 on July 08, 2016, 02:02:47 PM
Marklee,
my tom phi kan(3gal) and rosigold (7gal when purchased) all from TTrop last Sept seems to be doing very well.

it puts out a few branches, the fruit got to the size of my big toe and I plugged them all a few days ago per other member's suggestions.  It's in a 3gal pot, and there's this really weird weeds growing on the surface for the last few months, I  don't know if it's a symbiotic relationship to the mango.  I keep on adding fresh compost on top of the weed so that it kinda acts like a buffer to the tree so that it doesn't burn the tree. The roseligold are putting out new flushes too.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20586.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20586.0)


Simon, most of the mangos I have from Florida that are in the ground now are very, I mean very slow growers. For example a Rosigold that has been planted for about 4 years has never put out new growth, it flowered for the first time this year. It looks droopy and almost ready to leave this world. For example other Florida trees Neelam, Thom pi Khan, Cac, Fruit Punch, are hardly growing. The only one from Florida that is doing great is Piña Colada, it is putting out plenty of growth. I have resorted to grafting the Florida varieties like everyone else onto locally grown seeds. The most 2 vigorous trees I have are a Corriente seedling from Cal Tropics and a polyembrionic seedling I started from one of Paul Thompson's fruits from his Edgehill property. So it sounds like most of the Florida grown trees either die or fail to thrive here. One person here in San Diego county has many Florida grown trees on his property and every time I see them, they seem to be the same size as the year before, but some do fruit ok.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: knlim000 on July 08, 2016, 02:04:17 PM
Oh my god. I hope my trees don't do this.


I've killed three mangoes so far from Florida. First one was an Alphonso. Grew quite well but droopy. Died from a fungal disease after a year in ground though. Started to observe sap slowly leaking from the trunk, especially after watering it, then it declined from there.

Second and third tree were Lemon zest (15gal) and Coconut cream (7gal) both planted in ground. Amended soil and mulch. Grew fine for the first six months. Tip pruning them along the way. CC had droopy new growth. LZ very vigorous, but not droopy. Come fall of last year, they halted their growth and their tips started turning brown and dying back. Sap also leaking from trunk or branches. I tried fungicides, thinking it could be fungal disease again. They made it through winter but had to hack back a lot of bigger limbs. Spring of this year both started growing again, no more browning tips. But summer hit and they both fried. I don't think they were fully healthy and ready for the high temps. I think both succumb to mango dieback disease. I first observed it on the LZ, and I think got passed onto the CC via my pruning shears not knowing the other tree was sick to begin with.

Now I'm down to two mango trees. Fruit punch from Florida also (3gal) planted in ground this spring and doing well so far. The other mango tree is the one from Tim Thompson 'Pineapple' mango. That one is growing very very well. Not sure what rootstock it's on but so far it's very healthy. Planning to graft onto it later this fall.

I'm trying not to water them as much as the ones that died. I think over watering them stressed the trees and brought in the fungal disease.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Stan on July 08, 2016, 03:08:32 PM
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?

I get it. You  don't. I explained it clear as a bell.  Barathe said  "I have been using lots of Aultalfo as rootstock"  You can interpret it any way you want. But I say what I want to say and if I feel like adding to the conversation I will "Mr. Mangoes are everywhere in Arizona!"..eh,when was the last time you were in Arizona and did a field study? You know more then people who live there. Like a guy in La Habra who knows more about bay area horticulture then people who live there!
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Stan on July 08, 2016, 03:50:46 PM
Yo dude, you need to read closely, DUDE.  Your response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Barath's post was on topic, and he didnt ask anything about overwintering of any type of rootstock in any location.  As I previously posted, your post was torally random and had nothing to do with the topic of THIS thesad.  If you want to discuss growing msngoes outside of the normsl mango growing zone, maybe start your own?  Get it now, dude?

My Autalfo/Champagne I grew from seed. It even as a seedling was never protected from frost. I feel pretty good it will last.  One thing- plant a few of them as some seedlings will be much more faster growing. From what I can tell,those seedlings who start with adult like foliage are MUCH better then the usual small leafs that flush larger much later.

(https://s31.postimg.cc/fv9wmpqx3/IMG_3931x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fv9wmpqx3/)

What in the world does this have to do with the thread's topic?

Well,read close Bullie dude. Barath was wondering about Aultalfo as rootstock. Hence, my post that mine went through TWO winter uprotected is agreeing they would make a good rootstalk if you dont want Aultalfo fruit.  Sabe? I also included my observations that even the variation of the seeds is interesting.
Barath is up here in the bay area where things might be different. Get it now?
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 08, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Sapping out from wounds is usually from a bacterial infection or Copper deficiency.  Either way, spray Copper.

Highly recommend a *systemic* bactericide/fungicide like Magnabon (OMRI certified if you're of the ilk) or Phyton 35.  Has saved 2 avocado trees that literally came back from the dead and are pushing lots of new healthy foliage.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 08, 2016, 04:04:57 PM
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

Quote
I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.

Ignore the village troll.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Stan on July 08, 2016, 05:18:11 PM
What is your problem? Simon asked a harmless question and I replied... Sorry if I slightly derailed the thread in answering a question.... No need to be rude and disrespectful.

Quote
I dont know why he got upset. Or why he felt free to be rude.

Ignore the village troll.

Really,I try. I give my experience with Aultalfo to Barath..and a guy who calls himself a bullie feels like he needs to live up to the name.  We all read into a question our answer. It was obvious I was saying that here in the bay area Barach might not find a better rootstalk then The little yellow mangoes.

It was like my idea with whitewash in Arizona on Mangoes. An idea.  Not "I demand and state it is the only way!"..lol.  Some people take gardening too serious.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Baja_Traveler on July 08, 2016, 11:18:20 PM
Simon -

Here is a picture from today of my Tebow I got from Ong Nursery 4-5 years ago. Just in the past week it has been putting out good growth. It's maybe doubled in size since it was planted, so it's a pretty slow grower.  Had two nice large mangos last year, so hopefully I'll get a few more next year.

Kai

(http://i.pbase.com/g9/85/360685/2/163634556.irtddKG5.jpg)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on July 09, 2016, 01:02:50 AM
I went to Ong Nursery in late 2015 to check out there various trees and noticed all of the mango trees I saw were on Florida root-stock (Turpintine) so it is not surprising your tree is a slow grower. Now would be the perfect time to graft your Tebow onto a manila seedling and replant.

Johnny
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 09, 2016, 01:22:46 AM
Kai,

I see dieback on the original graft and it looks like you may have new sprouts very low on your tree which may be below the graft Union meaning the resulting fruit may not be Tebow. I agree with Johnny and suggest you plant some Lavern Manilla or any mango seeds you have directly into the ground and I can show you how to graft. I can give you some scion wood from some excellent varieties.

Ongs nursery is very nice with a great selection that would be otherwise difficult to find. Quang is a very nice guy and extremely knowledgable about plants. I usually purchase Florida plants from him or Plantogram and use the plants as a source for scions.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 09, 2016, 08:07:49 AM
Kai,

I see dieback on the original graft and it looks like you may have new sprouts very low on your tree which may be below the graft Union meaning the resulting fruit may not be Tebow.

Simon

I noticed that too, and, is it normal for this variety to have such long internodes? 
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on July 29, 2016, 10:13:13 PM
Here are some interesting updates on my Florida Turpentine rootstock Lemon Zest trees compared to my Lemon Zest graft onto Manilla rootstock. The two Florida rootstock trees have been in the ground just under two years. The LZ graft on the Manilla rootstock was grafted about 1.5 years ago IIRC. I have the exact dates on my tags but I'm not home at the moment.

Here's the fruit from Florida LZ #1.


(https://s31.postimg.cc/69veyg4xj/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/69veyg4xj/)

Here is the fruit from Florida LZ #2

(https://s31.postimg.cc/j54bns2l3/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/j54bns2l3/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/p7bye9r13/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/p7bye9r13/)

Here is the fruit from the LZ grafted onto Manilla rootstock, it's still got a long ways to go before its ripe. The scion for this graft came from the two Florida trees so they are genetically the same except for rootstock influences. The LZ graft on Manilla rootstock does have one nubbin that is very small and round like the fruit on the Florida rootstock but it is not showing any cracking or bacterial black spot.
(https://s32.postimg.cc/wfvusjsgh/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wfvusjsgh/)

(https://s32.postimg.cc/f3vi73yz5/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f3vi73yz5/)

(https://s32.postimg.cc/e2v9hzhzl/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/e2v9hzhzl/)

My only explanation is rootstock influence and/or my Manilla rootstock is more established. Others have been able to grow normal shaped and sized LZ fruit on Florida Turpentine rootstock and I'm sure I would eventually get full sized fruit once the tree gets fully established but I decided to pull one of these trees out.
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: raimeiken on July 30, 2016, 04:43:53 PM
holy cow what a difference!  thanks for the on going update and experiment on this subject.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: fruit4me on April 12, 2017, 03:25:10 PM
Update on my Florida grafted LZ. Got some fruit set.

(https://s30.postimg.cc/9pj4ghbcd/IMG_0095.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9pj4ghbcd/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/pp1s017e5/IMG_0123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pp1s017e5/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/bwnd4egml/IMG_0124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bwnd4egml/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/rw60nycod/IMG_0125.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rw60nycod/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/tchj63fl9/IMG_0126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tchj63fl9/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/71to64ib1/IMG_0127.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/71to64ib1/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/qky9fhh2l/IMG_0128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qky9fhh2l/)

(https://s30.postimg.cc/creynjust/IMG_0129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/creynjust/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on April 12, 2017, 04:19:11 PM
Max, your tree looks great. Did you get any fruit set last year? If so, were they normal sized fruit? How long have you had the tree for?

Your tree is really looking good with just minor Powdery Mildew damage on the newer leaves. Your tree is upright and not droopy yet and doesn't appear to have Phomopsis from what I can see. With such lush and dense foliage, I would think your tree will be strong enough to outgrow many pathogens.

What I've noticed is that the larger the tree, the better it can defend itself against attack from various diseases and pathogens.

Please keep us updated with this tree. The trees that seem to perform ok on Florida/Turpentine rootstock are Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest, Alphonso and a few other I can't remember.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: sg128 on April 12, 2017, 04:45:47 PM
I have a cotton candy mango which I planted in the ground here earlier this year.  It's from Florida so probably turpentine rootstock. Time will tell how it fares. I'll provide  updates.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on April 12, 2017, 05:34:32 PM
The more people that provide updates, the better. Last year, I lost my Carrie on Turpentine rootstock.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on April 12, 2017, 05:44:17 PM
(http://s22.postimg.cc/cu2o1atxp/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cu2o1atxp/)
My Peach cobbler.  I pugged it upon purchase and it seems to be doing well


(http://s22.postimg.cc/z7aeo3uvh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/z7aeo3uvh/)
Kesar mango.  Grows really nicely.  Put out a lot vegetative growth last year


(http://s22.postimg.cc/wneru07bh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wneru07bh/)
Sweet tart.  Bought as three gallon from florida.  Not much vegetative growth


(http://s22.postimg.cc/4ys4mhkb1/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4ys4mhkb1/)
My ugly betty.  Also pugged upon purchase and have a very dwarfish growth habbit for me

(http://s22.postimg.cc/jgkqgqm8d/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jgkqgqm8d/)
This is my lemon zest on turpinetine.  Very vigorous grower though it seems chronically thirsty (though i was told lz always have wavy leaves and behave like its has too little water). 1 year in ground and spent a year in the pot

(http://s22.postimg.cc/vtxknnbwt/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vtxknnbwt/)
This is my mahachinok.  Pretty vigorous. 2 years in ground. Gave me a few fruits last year



(http://s8.postimg.cc/6pms8p435/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6pms8p435/)
Keitt mango.  Tall and lanky.  Behaves like a dwarf for me in ground

(http://s8.postimg.cc/a7ys534z5/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/a7ys534z5/)
This is my irwin, bought as 7 gal.  Behaves like an ultra dwarf

Rliou, how are your trees doing? My Florida trees usually start getting droopy around the third year.

BTW, you can see my Carrie before it died in reply #36 of this thread. The two seedlings I planted next to the Carrie when it was still alive is doing great although in hindsight, I should not have grafted them at such a young age as they will flower and waste energy that could have gone into growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: fruit4me on April 13, 2017, 12:15:54 AM
Hi Simon, my LZ  this year will be in it's third year in the ground. First year, it gave me about 6 full size fruits. Second year, I only kept one fruit cause I wanted it to grow more instead. The whole canopy is tied up to give it an upright look. If let loose, it gets pretty droopy. I love the amazing taste of LZ. Seems to perform very well here for me so far.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 12:28:31 PM
I've tried amending my soil and I've also planted in holes that weren't amended. My seedlings and Lavern Manilla mango trees are planted in the same soil as the Florida trees and only the florida trees perform poorly.

Here is a Carrie mango on Florida rootstock. It was planted into the ground about two years ago and constantly flowers and fruits with 0-1 veg flush a year. The branches and leaves look horrible, it could be phomopsis slowing it down, not sure.

Anyways, because of its slow progress, I planted several seedlings in the same hole so same soil, same water and same fertilizer. As you can see in the picture, the seedlings have put on two vegetative growth flushes and I believe they will overtake the Carrie in 1-2 years. one of the seedlings is I grafted and the other seedling is grafted with Venus. The. Venus flowered and tried to hold fruit which I removed.

The largest tallest tree is the Carrie but it is much older than the seedlings which were planted last year IIRC

Simon
(https://s31.postimg.cc/lsjur2kef/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lsjur2kef/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/x66e29ux3/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/x66e29ux3/)

Here is an update of this little experiment. The Carrie on Florida Turpentine rootstock was the biggest tree and the seedlings were planted much later. First, here is an update of the Carrie:

(https://s1.postimg.cc/5rj3gku0qz/275750_DD-569_A-40_E6-_BFFB-019973301160.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5rj3gku0qz/)
 Remember that these trees/seeds were planted in the exact same hole so they receive the same water, fertilizer and sunlight. If anything, the seedlings has it worse because they were smaller and unestablished. The seedlings were also partially shaded by the much larger Carrie.

As you can see, the Carrie is dead and the in situ grafted seedling(CAC) is taller than the Carrie when it was in its prime. Notice that the seedling grafted with CAC is growing strong with uprightbranches and there is no signs of disease or drooping. Here is the seedling, now much larger:
(https://s1.postimg.cc/3kvg0a16jf/3_A0_CDDBC-_C440-4_F50-91_B0-7_C5_D3449_DD66.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3kvg0a16jf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/70xrsde1cb/5_A5_C109_C-99_AE-4_EA6-8_B69-_FCD1260_A98_BD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/70xrsde1cb/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/2hvqpe6f8r/5_B31_F5_EC-149_A-42_DD-8_F99-_B1339_BE04_D0_B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/2hvqpe6f8r/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/9e0e9kkrwb/9_FA9_F2_E3-8_BB8-4896-8168-9_DC8_E1756_D57.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9e0e9kkrwb/)
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 04:12:25 PM
With careful watch over nutrients and pH of the soil, Florida Turpentine rootstock trees can grow ok with multiple vegetative flushes although there is still cracking of the trunk, gummosis, dieback and droopy branches. The pH of the soil here is slightly lower at around 7(most my yard is 8+Before amendment )and I constantly lower it with sulfur granules. The branching starts at about 4 feet and I e been removing all growth that droops too low. This tree had severe cracking and gummosis and I left it alone without any treatment, I did not cut away the affected areas, and the cracks appear to have healed itself and calloused over with healthy tissue. At the time when the trees cracks were open and bleeding out, it is an easy opening for diseases to set in.

I hope now that it has reached what I consider critical mass, it has enough energy to overcome most of the issues with Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. The main issue I still have with this tree is that it can not form full sized fruit, only golfball sized nubbins. I’m hoping that reaching critical mass this year will enable it to have enough energy to overcome the the Powdery Mildew that heavily affects its blooms and Fruit set.

(https://s1.postimg.cc/149gs4hx63/E6428_C27-657_F-430_F-9695-_E5698_CEADF58.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/149gs4hx63/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/1t2qc53b0r/ECF59106-057_F-47_B5-_A7_F6-4_E8_F48_F0_BBF1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1t2qc53b0r/)
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 04:32:04 PM
Here is what some typical branches look like from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. There is a lot of dry cracked bark and odd lignification of even smaller branches. Once partially lignified, these branches do not continue to expand proportional to the rest of the tree. These branches and trunk are from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees that were planted approximately 7 years ago.

(https://s1.postimg.cc/24gcvg6ixn/3263_D086-364_A-4_D89-_AEBC-2_DE87_AFCA33_B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/24gcvg6ixn/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/18jvfzx27f/44682_F65-5475-4_C6_F-_B5_C2-_C0345_B3_B8_FAB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/18jvfzx27f/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/1j6p955n5n/4_DF5_AFB5-_C96_D-45_CD-_A6_DB-54_B1453_C9_B31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1j6p955n5n/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/7cbnifzybf/829_F3_FE6-8_E4_E-48_C7-9_EBD-717_CEBAF74_AC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7cbnifzybf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/1509ia176j/A6_D67_C27-_CC0_C-44_EB-9_D46-2_A8_B13641900.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1509ia176j/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/30cuawhhob/AD4_D7_C79-54_FC-4_F83-8203-_B9486_BFD4_C30.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/30cuawhhob/)
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: jbaqai on October 16, 2017, 02:00:47 AM
That’s exactly story of my plants
Baby care then and next session they are dead , lots lot of plant

Last year have 7-8 mango trees from Florida , and 3 Manila seedling , overwinter in garage

Out of that only 1 Florida mango is relatively okay (Maha Chanok ) and 2 are barely surviving

All 3 Manila seedling was in top notch condition, planted 2 in ground already this season

I believe it has to to dump conditions of the soil during the winter times, apparently Florida root stock is not good at it

Simon , did you try to bareroot the florida rootstocks tree and planted in ground , this is just eliminates the possibility of soil around the rootball causing the root rot

Keep us updated with your experiment, probably start doing the grafting for people like us
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: mangomanic12 on October 16, 2017, 07:18:05 PM
I find  that If I even try thinking about "barerooting " a mango tree before I put it in the ground .....I end up with a dead mango tree. LOL
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on October 16, 2017, 10:19:22 PM
I’ve never bare rooted a Florida Turpentine rootstock mango tree before but someone did suggest it to me a while back. As long as the tree is not planted deep, I did not find anything unusual about the soil the Florida potted trees are shipped to us in. I always make sure to have the root flare above ground or at least keeping the first root right at or above soil level.

I’m also afraid of bare rooting Mango trees although I’ve seen several people on this forum(Pugluvr) and another person bringing a Mango tree as carry on luggage, do it.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: jbaqai on October 17, 2017, 03:00:34 AM
My guess is that we are stuck with Florida (turpentine) root stock for a while

Unless the big guys in Florida can help us ( California) out with more suitable rootstock

Was in LA 3-4 months ago , and bought 25gal Alphonso and 15gal kesar ( which is dead already ) from champs nursery , and I ask the owner ( forget his name ) , why mangoes from Florida , why not give business to local with Manila rootstocks , he replied that we may not that kind of growth per plant like we got from Florida trees.

Plus the price per plant will be more then what we already paying for Florida one , which is already in crazy range
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: shaneatwell on October 17, 2017, 06:31:08 PM
You can get locally grown on probably better rootstocks. Exotica had 40+ last few times I visited. Not yet the best varieties though.  And yes they are expensive. Comparable with Florida.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on October 17, 2017, 09:55:43 PM
I’ve received so many requests for grafted trees that I may graft a few up for sale if I find some extra time.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: FruitFool on October 18, 2017, 01:30:12 AM
My understanding is that the mango trees at Exotica are from Florida.

-FruitFool
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Bush2Beach on October 18, 2017, 01:28:36 PM
There is plenty of La Verne Manila rootstock all over CA. There is no reason to ship Turpentine rootstock tree's to CA , because it's a waste of time and money in everyones's experience.

The Exotica mango tree's are the result of 6 weeks in FL during Mango season and access to thousands of Mango's for seed. They were processed for seed in Florida 2014 and then sent and planted in CA in a big greenhouse. Some were then grafted.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: alangr088 on October 19, 2017, 01:36:09 PM


I got a OKRUNG mango on Turpentine #11 rootstock from Exotica about a year ago....so yes you can find interesting trees at exotica. It has grown a sturdy 16 inches since in the ground last November.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/1xq48zml2j/IMG_1144.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1xq48zml2j/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/2hkqalmxob/IMG_1856.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/2hkqalmxob/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: FreshOne on March 06, 2018, 11:47:37 PM
Manilla/Ataulfo/Champagne are they the same variety? I often see Manilla seedling at HD maybe I'll need to pick up a few this season.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on March 07, 2018, 05:50:25 AM
🗯
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on March 07, 2018, 08:37:54 AM
Eric, my seed grown Mango trees are the healthiest Mango trees I have. The seedlings show no signs of gummosis or die back and there is hardly any need for staking unless I over fertilize and push growth too hard.

One very important thing to note is that I received word that Lavern Nursery has recently begun receiving shipments of Turpentine rootstock. I’m not sure if they will be sold with a new tag or if they will continue to sell those as Manilla? It would be great if anyone here with connections to Lavern Nursery can confirm or deny this bit of info.

I must reiterate that not all Turpentine rootstocks perform poorly here. Seedling Turpentine rootstocks grow fine for Leo Manuel and I have been experimenting with them since last year and they grow similar to other random seedlings I’ve planted.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: OCchris1 on March 08, 2018, 02:30:49 AM
Just a small note: I have barerooted mangos a couple of times with success. It can be done! One was an in-ground tree that had most of the roots chewed off by June bug larvae and the others were seedlings I thought wouldn't make it. Good luck to all. Chris
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: WGphil on March 08, 2018, 07:59:30 AM
Plant your seed that grows in your area and top worh with a chosen scion.  Might get you to healthy and types you want faster.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Lionking on March 22, 2018, 08:59:40 PM
Thank you Simon for this great thread.  As a newbie here,  I have been reading this thread a few times over specially since I have been wanting to try my luck at growing mangos here in California.
This thread also just saved me some money as I almost pulled the trigger on buying a few mangos from PlantOGram, which I’m sure are in turpentine rootstock.
The trees I was looking to purchase are Fruit punch, Lemon Zest, and Orange Essence.
Now that I read this,  I will try to find scions from someone here in California and graft to rootstocks that work out here on the west coast.
I’m also willing to experiment to help anyone out in anyway that i can for the benefit of everyone on this forum.... with instruction from the experts here that is.....lol
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Lionking on March 22, 2018, 10:31:23 PM
By the way,  out of curiosity,  Lowe’s sells mangos listed as plant code: L7606.  Is this a Florida mango on terpentine rootstock?  It doesn’t give much info on where it’s from and the kind of mango it is.
Does anyone have any experience with this variety from Lowe’s.  If not a terpentine rootstock,  is it worth grafting onto it?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on March 23, 2018, 11:13:32 AM
Do you have a picture of the plant tag? If it’s a Florida tree, I would expect it to have the variety tag on it. I know Home Depot sells Manilla trees but I haven’t been to Lowe’s in a long time so I have no idea.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: amberroses on March 23, 2018, 11:35:22 AM
Do you have a picture of the plant tag? If it’s a Florida tree, I would expect it to have the variety tag on it. I know Home Depot sells Manilla trees but I haven’t been to Lowe’s in a long time so I have no idea.

Simon

Lowes in Florida usually contracts with local nurseries. Look and see if the nursery  it came from is labeled on the pot. You can call the nursery and ask what type of mango it might be. 
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: Lionking on March 23, 2018, 12:33:14 PM
Do you have a picture of the plant tag? If it’s a Florida tree, I would expect it to have the variety tag on it. I know Home Depot sells Manilla trees but I haven’t been to Lowe’s in a long time so I have no idea.

Simon


Hi Simon,

     Unfortunately I did not take a picture of the tag.  Stupid me.  I did look at it but can’t remember.  This happened just before I joined the forum.
I went on line,  and it also just states plant code L7606 and has no variety listed. 
I was thinking of just buying it but now that I know terpentine rootstock done do well in Ca.  I’ll save my money. 
I’ll go back soon and take a picture of the tag.  If it’s not a Florida Mango rootstock,  I’ll purchase it.
@amberroses,  good looking out.  I will check for any labels on pot as well .
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on June 05, 2018, 06:24:43 PM
For the last couple years, my Florida Turpentine rootstock tree gave me nubbin fruit that we’re small round and fat, many of them also cracked and all of them had an aborted seed. Last Winter I sprayed my tree with Abound and my tree went crazy with blooms. The blooms did not have any Powdery Mildew, in previous years, the panicles were completely covered with PM. I was expecting an excellent fruit set because of the lack of PM but one by one, each of the panicles dried up without setting any fruit. When it was all said and done, I only ended up with 2 Fruit that set in the first bloom.
Here is s picture of the initial blooms.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/8ilm8qon1/59_D4_B090-20_E8-4240-_AB37-748_C321501_C4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8ilm8qon1/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/an5z9tijx/84_B2_FAED-_AF81-4006-_BFEB-_AE500_C924920.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/an5z9tijx/)
Pic of when initial blooms all dried up
(https://s22.postimg.cc/s0g9opo5p/2_D4_E0_E4_C-3_C88-4456-_BF19-_EAED021_D7685.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/s0g9opo5p/)
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on June 05, 2018, 06:36:07 PM
Here is a picture of one of the LZ Fruit from the first bloom.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/dvagmq7ct/1_B5_A6763-_C662-436_E-_BFE1-_C52_A7_B5_C5936.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dvagmq7ct/)
The initial LZ bloom only set two fruit but on this same tree, I grafted DOT and Venus and they both set lots of fruit considering it’s a single branch of each variety.
Some Venus Fruit, I’m sure more fruit will fall off.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/a072jzvv1/3_A2_E7246-79_C5-4_BBD-807_A-5_C02_AC5_CF3_EF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/a072jzvv1/)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on June 05, 2018, 06:47:39 PM
The initial bloom only set two fruit but the weather was cool enough that when I trimmed away the dried up panicles, new, much smaller blooms formed. These secondary blooms are tiny compared to the initial blooms and there are only about ten panicles scattered here and there around the tree but these late blooms seem to have set a ton of baby fruit. Here’s a pic
(https://s22.postimg.cc/t5abu92yl/29795922-46_D3-4_D28-88_A3-_D780_DE95_CDFA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/t5abu92yl/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/lpb28eht9/2_CDC957_B-_AE2_A-40_C7-_B87_D-685824_AD4_D06.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lpb28eht9/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/4os5zrmsd/ABBA4483-_A7_B3-462_A-896_F-2269_E0623_D51.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4os5zrmsd/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/hg6c6a4a5/E919_F532-7_CC3-49_C2-_A0_D3-_F938_B142_C2_F5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hg6c6a4a5/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/nh413cbgt/FA47_F0_D2-4_ED6-4856-9_D77-2_F8_E065_F8_E5_C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nh413cbgt/)

I’m happy because it appears this will be the first year my tree will be ripening full sized LZ fruit and it appears that late blooms may have better fruit set for some reason. In the future, if my initial Fruit set is non existent or very low, I will likely immediately trim back my tree to hopefully induce a second bloom which will hopefully have a higher fruit set.

On a side note, my LZ grafted onto Lavern Manilla has given me fruit without any spraying for the last 2-3 years but this year, the blooms were infected with Powdery Mildew and I only have about two fruit that set. In previous years, this trees blooms had very little PM.
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 10, 2019, 10:19:29 PM
Just want to report that this year, My Lemon Zest on LaVern Manilla rootstock does not appear to have set any fruit due to heavy Powdery Mildew infections. This same tree has Kesar and Gary grafted to it and these varieties have set fruit already. Initially, I was hoping to see a pattern that LZ grafted onto LaVern Manilla would be more disease resistant but that is not the case, at least for this year.

This year, my LZ on Florida Turpentine rootstock set a good number of fruit. The first blooms got heavily infested with Powdery Mildew and didn’t set any fruit but as the second blooms started opening up, I sprayed the canopy and flower panicles with water and so far there is some decent fruit set.

I did also get some good initial fruit set on this tree last year but all but one full sized fruit and several nubbins remained after the heat wave we got. The overhead watering may be washing away the PM. PM supposedly does not proliferate well in wet conditions.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Js0MH6RG/430730-FC-0-FF4-438-B-915-D-0-A93-F0930-ADC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Js0MH6RG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0K9qkZt5/5-D577-F22-C68-E-4607-85-C2-09-FB1-F12-D7-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0K9qkZt5)
Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on May 13, 2019, 02:52:17 AM
Thanks for all the great info Simon. What’s the best time of day to wash away the PM with the overhead watering you mentioned?
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 13, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
I didn’t pay attention to when I did the overhead watering, I mostly did it when I got off work in the evenings. I would assume that it’s best to do it early enough so that the canopy has a chance to completely dry out before nighttime or else it could cause issues with fungus that does like moisture.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: sapote on May 13, 2019, 03:07:26 PM
Simon,

My Lemon Zest (thanks for the scions)  on LaVern Manilla rootstock also had heavy PM this year. Maybe we should cut off the first bloom to force a late 2nd bloom in warmer month -- May or June instead of March/April. Maha and Cat are the ones with minimum PM grafted on the same tree.
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: BestDay on May 14, 2019, 10:48:38 AM
What variety is Cat?

Bill
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 15, 2019, 11:17:43 PM
Simon,

My Lemon Zest (thanks for the scions)  on LaVern Manilla rootstock also had heavy PM this year. Maybe we should cut off the first bloom to force a late 2nd bloom in warmer month -- May or June instead of March/April. Maha and Cat are the ones with minimum PM grafted on the same tree.

Sapote, you just have to be careful how late you want to push it because if you prune too late, it could get out on you which isn’t necessarily a bad thing if your tree is still small. Normally my LZ tree will naturally flower twice a year. I mainly prune to remove the end of the branch where the previous flower panicles grew because they can harbor fungal spores.

Cat mango might be CAC/COC, I spread some scion around a while back. CAC/COC is an absolutely delicious mango that grows well here and has been disease resistant from reports I hear back from people I shared scions with.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: LBCGuy on May 30, 2019, 01:42:06 PM
Simon

Here's a video of a large mango tree with full size mango. It's not my tree, it located in Lakewood/Long beach area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxM5E034U0&t=208s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxM5E034U0&t=208s)



Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: gozp on May 30, 2019, 06:35:14 PM
Florida ST doing well here.


(https://i.postimg.cc/GHGY28Cw/20190529-212243.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHGY28Cw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nM6BpKNG/20190529-212250.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nM6BpKNG)


(https://i.postimg.cc/k6Lc00xx/20190530-153927.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6Lc00xx)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: gozp on May 30, 2019, 06:38:06 PM

Os

(https://i.postimg.cc/kVzXKsQj/20190530-153558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVzXKsQj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5H62XTCY/20190530-153609.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H62XTCY)

K3

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6SMcSw7/20190530-153619.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6SMcSw7)


Pina colada


(https://i.postimg.cc/CnVh6K6k/20190530-153631.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnVh6K6k)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rDymkKy9/20190530-153635.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rDymkKy9)
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: simon_grow on May 30, 2019, 06:50:31 PM
Simon

Here's a video of a large mango tree with full size mango. It's not my tree, it located in Lakewood/Long beach area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxM5E034U0&t=208s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxM5E034U0&t=208s)

Thanks for the video. Is that your tree and are you sure it’s on Florida rootstock?

Most of the trees that are large like that are grafted onto seedling rootstocks.

There are huge trees that Frank and I posted and most of them are seedling trees or seedling trees that were grafted.

There are Florida Turpentine rootstock trees that can get quite large. For example Valencia Pride, LZ, Sweet Tart and some of the other vigorous varieties but many of them will at least initially have a very droopy growth habit.

Simon
Title: Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
Post by: mangomanic12 on May 30, 2019, 07:05:43 PM
Gozp, the trees look fine.......but i know you want growth for a few years and not fruit......so you know what you have to do...

Especially if on Fl rootstock