The Tropical Fruit Forum

Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: Florian on November 30, 2019, 11:33:18 AM

Title: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: Florian on November 30, 2019, 11:33:18 AM
Just wanted to show you my seedlings of a Sacaton citrumelo. This one is know to have a very high percentage of zygotic seeds. In fact, only Nr. 2 looks like a nucellar plant to me, 3 and 4 are completely monofoliate.

Nr. 1
(https://i.postimg.cc/4KnB0WMh/Sacaton.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KnB0WMh)

Nr. 2
(https://i.postimg.cc/2LNGVr54/Sacaton-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2LNGVr54)

Nr. 3
(https://i.postimg.cc/CdbJ9BvJ/Sacaton-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdbJ9BvJ)

Nr. 4
(https://i.postimg.cc/rdpPkVds/Sacaton-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdpPkVds)

Nr. 5
(https://i.postimg.cc/ct7m32KP/Sacaton-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ct7m32KP)

On one hand, this is excellent for breeding purposes but on the other hand, Sacaton Citrumelo is not a very good Citrumelo. It has a very strong Poncirus taste, much more so than others I have tried and it is rather small.

I picked the fruit in Eisenhut's nursery so the pollen donor could have been anything. There was a Yuzu nearby but also an Oronules, some sort of Changsha, a Thomasville and others.
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: Ilya11 on November 30, 2019, 12:23:16 PM
Amazingly, but Sacaton of UCR collection is completely nucellar.
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/sacaton_3337.html
I wonder if Eisenhut plant could be something else?
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: kumin on November 30, 2019, 12:24:38 PM
Such a high percentage of monofoliates indeed suggests the pollen parent (s) was/were monofoliates. Best of luck with your hybrids.
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: kumin on November 30, 2019, 12:29:10 PM
Ilya, this source suggests 39% zygotic seedlings from Sacaton. Perhaps there's some confusion, or dramatic variation?
https://books.google.com/books?id=pKlNrSR_8IEC&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=Sacaton+zygotic&source=bl&ots=HoN1SE5_tY&sig=ACfU3U2tDrwr-5b8aA5NPdTZjViqR8seLw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5w7ueupLmAhWKdN8KHXzGD7oQ6AEwAHoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=Sacaton%20zygotic&f=false
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: Ilya11 on November 30, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: Ilya11 on November 30, 2019, 01:44:04 PM
I have  Xiang and Roose article cited there.
They used another Sacaton  ascension : CRC 3417,
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/sacaton_3417.html
but the description  is identical to  that of CRC 3337.
There is a story of mixing up between Sacaton and Yuma citrange, actually Yuma is giving nearly 50% of zygotic seedlings.

Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: Florian on November 30, 2019, 02:41:45 PM
Funny enough, Eisenhut has a Citrumelo Yuma too and all seedlings I have appear to be nucellar. The fruit is twice as large as Eisenhut's Sacaton and much less awful.
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: kumin on November 30, 2019, 03:46:30 PM
It certainly appears that the true identity and description of Sacaton (and Yuma?) is not resolved, at least in the literature. A large scale cold hardy F2 seedling segregation test with 100% nucellar seeds would be disastrous! This reminds me a bit of the Carrizo/Troyer citrange question. Are the 2 the same clone, or 2 very similar cultivars?
Title: Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
Post by: mikkel on November 30, 2019, 04:44:42 PM
In fact I remember Yuma fruits from Eisenhut as better ones. I have about 10 fruits on a plant they are still green. I am curious if they are nucellar.
Florian you seedlings look like my seedlings which have Ichang Papeda as pollen parent. On my plants I know pollination for sure. Do you have an idea what yours came from?

On this table from Ilyas post Yuma and Sacaton have both some zygotic seeds
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=35577.msg372847#msg372847 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=35577.msg372847#msg372847)