The Tropical Fruit Forum
Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: Kelley_GA8a on April 05, 2019, 10:29:46 PM
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Question: any recommendations on getting a graft to wake up? My Carrubaro lemon is still green and the graft has fused (grafted at the end of December/beginning of January) but showing no signs of swelling. My two other amalfi grafts should be leafing out any day now.
Note: the Carrubaro is inside a plastic container that is sitting on a heat mat.
Thanks for your time! :)
Kelley
(https://i.postimg.cc/zb4FSLS3/4-D7-B7162-FC35-41-ED-995-B-38-BD6-B8-B0-B38.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zb4FSLS3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4n30Dv6/BC3-EC9-B6-937-D-486-B-BB44-2-C4-CEF25-CAC0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4n30Dv6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkh9yRCz/C0-BC4-C45-88-DB-429-F-AF76-0-CFB753-BE78-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkh9yRCz)
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Bad choice of budwood.
These budwoods are forks, that means the main buds have sproot and have later been cut. (not sure of my english ;) )
Your only hope is now the lateral buds, one on each side of the (cutted) main buds.
It can take a very long time for them to sprout...
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Sylvain is correct. The first 2-4 nodes on a branch are usually blind buds & will not work. When taking budwood you want to discard the lower portion of the branch. I had a bunch of photos on the old citrus forum, but I guess they are all lost.
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I do not understand Sylvain's and Laaz's replies as to why the grafts will not work. By "first 2-4 nodes on a branch" do you mean the nodes nearest the tip of the branch? Why won't it work?
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You don't use the first 3-4 buds from the starting point of the branch, they normally will not sprout.
(http://oi64.tinypic.com/56ty0.jpg)
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SYLVAIN is explaining that the best choice for grafting is a leaf node that has not yet sprouted.
Each such leaf node contains an embryonic sprout that will start to grow after grafting.
If you choose a node that has already sprouted (what Sylvain calls 'a fork') growth will often be very slow because new shoots do not easily develop at this point - although they probably will eventually.
In the finger lime twig photo below I have marked a fork - which is the bad choice - and a leaf node, which is a better choice for grafting.
In Laaz's diagram you could extend the red box to the bottom left, so that the fork in the twigs is also included as a blind bud.
Hope this is now clearer!
(https://i.postimg.cc/py5c22cX/graftbuds.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/py5c22cX)
(Click photo to enlarge.)
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Laaz, i still have a Sony-cd-r of your grafting tutorial from the old citrus forum. My new computer will not play it. Those were the days that i start learning about " citrus".
Good observation on Kelley's graft, but on one picture i saw a viable healthy bud, waiting to push.
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Thank you all for your help and explanations! Boy, that is disappointing, as I do not know if I can obtain more of this budwood. I will see what happens with this one and try to get more for the future.
Thanks again, guys!!
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Carrubaro is a Femminello lemon which are my favorites. If you luck out & it sprouts, I would be interested in a budstick at some point.
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luak the photos should be in standard .jpg format.
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You can usually tell if the lowest buds are blind or not by inspecting
to make sure there is a bud there.
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I thank you all for your lucid explanations.
Kelley, I have my fingers crossed that your graft succeeds after all. Good luck!
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Thank you for the kind words, Vlad! Laaz, if you want a Femminello variety now, the CCPP has Femminello Siracusano 2KR available. I received budwood back in October and my graft is just now waking up. I’m very excited for this variety:)
(https://i.postimg.cc/v45Z22JQ/C2-F25-F80-F72-D-4209-B51-F-0094-FF09-FC57.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v45Z22JQ)
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Thanks, but I already have that one.
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Laaz, I sent you a PM.
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Have you tried a mild drench with some fertilizer? That may be enough to wake it up.
Simon
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I'm curious to know if the bud sticks that we order from UCR are entire branches, including blind buds, or if they make their cuts to avoid these buds.
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The budsticks that I received were all good buds, no blind:
(https://i.postimg.cc/7C268hMR/FF0-ECA49-03-EE-4065-82-C6-B134-F839-DA7-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7C268hMR)
Simon, I have sprayed them with Superthrive, but not fertilizer - that’s a good idea! I did notice today that the Carrubaro is waking up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3WWqKGDW/2422-A595-2-C4-A-40-A8-96-E8-4-D0-E6-CB8-E5-CB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3WWqKGDW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FdHBkdWW/90-C546-EA-32-C8-4612-911-C-CECCCDEA50-EF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FdHBkdWW)
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Superthrive is a complete waste of money, a worthless product. I remember a test Dr. Manners conducted at Florida Southern University, and reported the results - Could see no benefit over plants that were not given suuperthrive.
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Millet, I have not seen any benefits from using it either. I picked up a spray bottle for $5 and figured I’d give it a try. I will not be buying any more.
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Kelley, how can you tell that the buds aren't blind. Do they look different from blind buds?
MrTexas said this: "You can usually tell if the lowest buds are blind or not by inspecting to make sure there is a bud there." But this statement didn't make sense to me. Unless "blind bud" literally means a junction (leaf junction?) on a piece of wood without a bud in the junction.
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Let me say that I’m 99.9% sure there were no blind buds - there were none that had previously grown branches; only thorns and leaves. The budsticks were very nice :).
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Aren't you talking about buds in forks? What I've read here is that the first 2-4 nodes on the branch (that is cut off to become scionwood) are the blind ones. You count from the attachment point of this branch/cutting. So if the CCPP is giving you cuttings that include the end that was attached to the trunk, or to a branch, then you are getting 2-4 blind buds. If they are deliberately counting 4 buds away from the trunk or branch and then making the cut, they are giving you a cutting without blind buds. That's how I'm understanding it.
I've been exchanging emails with Rock Christiano at the CCPP. I'll ask him about this.
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I've had much butter success with cleft grafting by using a stick with 3-4 instead of a single bud. I also never remove the grafting tape until the buds start forcing their way through.
(http://oi67.tinypic.com/zwjdki.jpg)
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Like this...
(http://oi68.tinypic.com/23wk204.jpg)
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If you're only using a single bud, you'll have much better success T-budding it.
(http://oi67.tinypic.com/adngc0.jpg)
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Kelley, how can you tell that the buds aren't blind. Do they look different from blind buds?
MrTexas said this: "You can usually tell if the lowest buds are blind or not by inspecting to make sure there is a bud there." But this statement didn't make sense to me. Unless "blind bud" literally means a junction (leaf junction?) on a piece of wood without a bud in the junction.
Blind bud means no bud at all. Easily inspected for.
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Laaz, that t-bud graft is super clean! I need to practice a lot more, as mine are pretty rough looking lol.
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That's a inverted T-bud they work the best for me. The way I cut the buds, you can feel them pop right into the spot. If the rootstock is not slipping, you can chip bud as well.
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I did a bunch of tutorials with many photos, but many of the photos were lost over time. Have a look here. http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic0aed-2.php (http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic0aed-2.php)
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If you still have the missing pictures I can put them back. You just send me the pictures and the exact place where I must put them.
Obviously, it's valid for everyone!
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I wish I did, but that hard drive is long gone...
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:(
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Question: any recommendations on getting a graft to wake up? My Carrubaro lemon is still green and the graft has fused (grafted at the end of December/beginning of January) but showing no signs of swelling. My two other amalfi grafts should be leafing out any day now.
Note: the Carrubaro is inside a plastic container that is sitting on a heat mat.
Thanks for your time! :)
Kelley
(https://i.postimg.cc/zb4FSLS3/4-D7-B7162-FC35-41-ED-995-B-38-BD6-B8-B0-B38.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zb4FSLS3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4n30Dv6/BC3-EC9-B6-937-D-486-B-BB44-2-C4-CEF25-CAC0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4n30Dv6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkh9yRCz/C0-BC4-C45-88-DB-429-F-AF76-0-CFB753-BE78-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkh9yRCz)
Put it in a garage, hot temp there might push thru the cutoff node.
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Update: looks like the blind bud on my Carrubaro came through after all!
(https://i.postimg.cc/phDp4wYx/BCE8-E458-D3-DB-4-F7-F-A655-CCAC149519-F1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phDp4wYx)
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The budwood that I got this spring had no blind buds on it. Some of it was small & angular but usable.