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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2018, 06:48:08 PM

Title: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2018, 06:48:08 PM
I have a small project that involves planting several Avocado trees I recently purchased from the local nursery in RootBuilderII (RBII) expandable containers along the West x SouthWest side of my house.  I have planted Lamb Hass, Stewart, Holiday, Sir Prize, and Pinkerton.  My goal is try and keep the Avocados trained low and follow some of the precepts described in Dr. John Yonemoto's presentation here:
http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf (http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf)

Yonemoto's Training Diagram:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/65w95y7wl/Screen_Hunter_85_Mar._26_15.19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/65w95y7wl/)

I started with just a cleared 4' dirt row along my fence:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/pnqwm4a1x/20180227_091612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pnqwm4a1x/)

The 34lb boxes of 96-panel (100' rolls) of RBII arrived last Friday (3/23/18):
(https://s18.postimg.cc/rgtta2kud/20180324_140617.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rgtta2kud/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/h6reap57p/20180324_140627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h6reap57p/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/9e0qiu9k5/20180324_140605.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9e0qiu9k5/)

The packages came with a couple bags of 10" Zip-ties, but I had already purchased a hundred from the local HD.  It wasn't difficult to use kitchen shears to cut the panels to size (I chose 5 per for 20gal pots) and then zip tie through the holes.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/54w0goe0l/20180324_141529.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/54w0goe0l/)

I laid the 20-gal bottom-less "air-pots" out with ~8-10' spacing along the fence.   This was after rolling out 2-3 layers of weed fabric to (a) keep the neighbor's fruit tree roots out of my pots and (b) adhere to Yonemoto goal of limiting tap-roots.  This may come back to bite me down the road, as it will limit the vigor and trunk/branch strength of my trees.  But this is supposed to direct energy into fruiting and feeder roots.  We'll see.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/iykd5qm1h/20180324_143923.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iykd5qm1h/)

I then backfilled the pots with a mix of sandy dirt I had displaced earlier from the side-yard, peat moss, Coco-hulls, Perlite, worm-castings, and some other organics. I'm double-staking each tree w/ the center-stake they came with for maximum support.  The branches will be supported by trellises that run horizontal to the plane of the ground along the front of the trees.  I might try and squeeze a 2nd row of T-bars for another trellis behind the trees to help spread-out the branches.   Since the trees will be maintained at a low height, I'm hoping they'll be less susceptible to wind (also they are protected by fence and house), and they should be easier to cover with a frost cloth in the winter.  Half of the plants had some measure of root rot coming out of their nursery pots, but I hope they recover and thrive in their new homes.  I think my largest concern for the success of these avocado trees lies in the fact that they are getting limited sunlight due to their position between two houses.  I'm hoping that will not be a deal-breaker as the angle of the sun rises deeper into Spring/Summer.  I will try to post updates on this project over the coming months/years.  If anyone else has tried something similar, I'd love to know about it.  This evening after work I have to cut the tops off of each of these young trees.  That's going to be painful for me.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/3pufruabp/20180326_095757.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3pufruabp/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/f2719mqqd/20180326_095807.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f2719mqqd/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/lfw4cw3c5/20180326_095840.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lfw4cw3c5/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/feyffu3v9/20180326_095855.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/feyffu3v9/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: simon_grow on March 26, 2018, 07:01:35 PM
Nice project you going on there. Don’t forget to take into consideration how wide and long Dr Yonemotos trees are. One of his Avocado trees look like it’s 15-20 feet lengthwise. Please keep us updated on this project.

Simon
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2018, 07:35:42 PM
Hi Simon, thanks for chiming-in.  You're on point about the size constraints I have here.  I expect it will get extremely crowded with the space I have in which to confine these five plants.  Maybe that means the training will take on two levels (four branches total east/west); or perhaps another trellis running along the fence.  It might just turn out to be untenable, in which case I'll try and train the trees more vertically.  I want to give the wall-of-green, low and horizontal approach a good try before abandoning it out-right.  One benefit of taller trees is that they will "see" more light, but without a deeper tap-root, I'm not sure they can support themselves.

I'm also not using the Paclobutrazol that is mentioned in the presentation, but I'm hopeful the air-pruning pots will help with root health, perhaps sufficient w/out the Paclo dose.

Do you all spray fungicide immediately after deep pruning (on the cuts)?  I'd be worried the fungicidal agents might seep into the plant wounds with an immediate spraying, but perhaps that's not a concern.  I plan to do some heavy top-work this evening, and I'm not sure about the post-cut spray plan.

Thanks again,
Naysen
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: fyliu on March 26, 2018, 08:05:03 PM
I'm interested in the progress of your experiment.

The support from the trellis is what holds up the plants without the taproots. All the branches are "hung" from the trellis. Are you going to do something similar to that later on?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Seanny on March 26, 2018, 08:46:59 PM
Did you cut holes out under the pots?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Orkine on March 26, 2018, 10:12:05 PM
Seanny, the pots don't have a base.  It's a flat long panel curved back onto itself to form a cylinder open on both ends, a bottomless pot.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Seanny on March 26, 2018, 10:54:41 PM
I see weed cover so I'm wondering.

Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2018, 11:28:41 PM
Did you cut holes out under the pots?

Hi Seanny, no, I did not cut holes below the pot.  It's not so much that my soil is garbage or undesirable below the RBII pots, but rather it's that I'm trying to follow the greenhouse ideas of Dr. Yonemoto.  The idea is to minimize the tap-root to reduce trunk and branch girth/vigor and focus on feeder-roots and fruiting.  If I were going for permanent, full grown trees, I think letting the roots tap down would be best, particularly in my cooler 9B climate.  I'm trying something else.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2018, 11:36:44 PM
I'm interested in the progress of your experiment.

The support from the trellis is what holds up the plants without the taproots. All the branches are "hung" from the trellis. Are you going to do something similar to that later on?

Hi Fyliu,

I have the posts in place for at least one row of trellising.  I need to run the wires, but definitely do plan to trellis the main branches as you describe.  I'm not 100% clear on the process described in Dr. Yonemoto's presentations.  It describes pinching the tips of the main branches, but that would seem to result in a bunch of vertical shoots, which isn't what he's aiming for.  I think I want to select 2-4 branches for the main branches, and stake these branches downward to ensure they grow horizontally with a slight upward incline.  I don't think I should pinch the tips of the selected branches until they have grown out for a season.  My trellis will have several wires running horizontally, so I will have some wires above supporting the branches with hooks and string while perhaps a lower wire is directly tied to the main branches.  At any rate, I'm feeling my way through this, and I'm open to any input on interpreting Dr. Yonemoto's instructions for an outdoor environment with less space than ideal.

Thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: alangr088 on March 27, 2018, 02:24:03 AM
I'm actually trying a similar project. I just put them in a cedar wood box without a bottom. Hopefully I can train them (espalier) with proper pruning. It's Sir Prize, Queen, and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize and Lamb Hass are currently flowering.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/6co6xuch1/IMG_4046.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6co6xuch1/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/4kv82yg9h/IMG_4047.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4kv82yg9h/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/puiudsh4l/IMG_4048.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/puiudsh4l/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 27, 2018, 07:56:22 AM
This is very cool!  Only thing that bothers me is you might be boxing yourself in and encroaching on your neighbor when they grow thick. 

What's the sun exposure during the growing season?

Recommendations:

1.  Establish and maintain a 4-6" mulch.  Fine, white feeder roots will establish themselves on top of the soil under the mulch.

2.  Apply a slow release encapsulated food.  Polyon is the best based on design.  Am running out, finding it hard to get so I bought this which has a great term, NPK and micro package and is "dirt" cheap. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTDGMHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTDGMHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

3. If it's not too late innoculate the root system with VAM using a soil drench over the rootball.  If you've followed my post you know I'm not an organic purist and can't stand all the "organic and natural" products being hyped.  This is a good product with no trichoderma (which can actually interfere with the fungi colonization).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YCD88C8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YCD88C8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Here's a perpendicular system you might check out by the U. of Georgia.   I just planted a peach tree and will probably run the axis in line with the strong south winds we have.   It's quite close in profile to the Japanese profile.

http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches (http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches)

Good luck!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 27, 2018, 08:09:46 AM
I'm actually trying a similar project. I just put them in a cedar wood box without a bottom. Hopefully I can train them (espalier) with proper pruning. It's Sir Prize, Queen, and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize and Lamb Hass are currently flowering.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/6co6xuch1/IMG_4046.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6co6xuch1/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/4kv82yg9h/IMG_4047.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4kv82yg9h/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/puiudsh4l/IMG_4048.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/puiudsh4l/)

Not trying to be an alarmist but I've seen avocado roots of trees planted 4' away bust up slabs.  This was an old tall tree.   They are shallow rooted and can be pretty invasive to nearby structures.  If you feel you need to move them now's the time.

Don't take my word for it, ask around by starting a thread maybe.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 27, 2018, 08:12:16 AM
Do you all spray fungicide immediately after deep pruning (on the cuts)?  I'd be worried the fungicidal agents might seep into the plant wounds with an immediate spraying, but perhaps that's not a concern.  I plan to do some heavy top-work this evening, and I'm not sure about the post-cut spray plan.

Thanks again,
Naysen

I wouldn't worry about it but then again it depends on the fungicide.  Leave a collar when you cut.  Don't cut flush with the trunk. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: ScottR on March 27, 2018, 11:07:37 AM
Cool project you've got going on I've often wondered way people in City lot's don't utilize the narrow spaces on sides of houses!
Keep us posted on your great little project. 8)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Seanny on March 27, 2018, 01:02:40 PM
My interpretation of those slides is that you pinch the tip when it's growing to get more buds to grow.

I cut tips during dormancy and get 3 buds to grow.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 27, 2018, 03:05:43 PM
I'm actually trying a similar project. I just put them in a cedar wood box without a bottom. Hopefully I can train them (espalier) with proper pruning. It's Sir Prize, Queen, and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize and Lamb Hass are currently flowering.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/6co6xuch1/IMG_4046.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6co6xuch1/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/4kv82yg9h/IMG_4047.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4kv82yg9h/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/puiudsh4l/IMG_4048.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/puiudsh4l/)
Hi alangr-

I think your trees have a much better chance of success as you have them laid out (as compared to my own setup) for the following reasons:
1) You have more space both tree-to-tree and it looks like the other side of your house wall there is a drive way with a good amount of room for growth, should you need it.  I'm really cramped where I'm setup.
2) You are in SoCal, with weather more appropriate for these sub-tropical trees.
3) I'm limiting my tap-root with several layers of weed barrier, but you are allowing the trees to root down.  I think that's the key difference with our setups.  I will have to fully support the limbs of the trees to help right the tree and keep it from listing over.
4) It looks like you're planting next to a large white wall for wind protection and added thermal barrier (possibly).  If it's south-facing, you'll receive loads of light.  I will have far less light exposure with my positioning, which will probably affect the fruiting potential of these trees.

So you're going to have healthy robust trees I think.  One thing that jumps out looking at your pics is the wood-box barrier.  I wonder if in the more medium term you'd be better removing that or expanding the boundary to provide more room for feeder roots and surface mulching.  Something to consider.

Thanks for posting your setup.  Please send another post once you've got the trellis setup (espalier).  I'd like to see how you prune to make that effective.
-naysen
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 27, 2018, 03:09:07 PM
My interpretation of those slides is that you pinch the tip when it's growing to get more buds to grow.

I cut tips during dormancy and get 3 buds to grow.

Hmm.  I'm still not fully understanding the goal.  I did top-chop all five trees yesterday.  I didn't take them down to 1.5' as the slide-deck suggested, but most are around 2' tall.  I didn't cut to trunk every lateral branch, since I'm not yet sure how many I want to trellis up (nor how much room I'll have).  My thought is to allow 4-6 branches to grow out, and then I might select between 3-4 to be the winners.  It seems like pinching the winners before they have a chance to grow out and dominate would defeat the purpose.  I think you'd want to pinch them after they grew out some in the first year.  I'm just feeling my way through this though.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 27, 2018, 03:20:57 PM
This is very cool!  Only thing that bothers me is you might be boxing yourself in and encroaching on your neighbor when they grow thick. 

What's the sun exposure during the growing season?

Recommendations:

1.  Establish and maintain a 4-6" mulch.  Fine, white feeder roots will establish themselves on top of the soil under the mulch.

2.  Apply a slow release encapsulated food.  Polyon is the best based on design.  Am running out, finding it hard to get so I bought this which has a great term, NPK and micro package and is "dirt" cheap. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTDGMHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GTDGMHC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

3. If it's not too late innoculate the root system with VAM using a soil drench over the rootball.  If you've followed my post you know I'm not an organic purist and can't stand all the "organic and natural" products being hyped.  This is a good product with no trichoderma (which can actually interfere with the fungi colonization).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YCD88C8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YCD88C8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Here's a perpendicular system you might check out by the U. of Georgia.   I just planted a peach tree and will probably run the axis in line with the strong south winds we have.   It's quite close in profile to the Japanese profile.

http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches (http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches)

Good luck!
Hi Mark,

I tried to leave room for mulch in the pots, but at only 17" tall, I was reticent to limit the vertical grow media too much since I have a "bottom" on these pots.  Also, over time, I've noticed that potted trees have a way of settling or sinking a couple inches.  I do have 2-4" for mulch.  I've been using pine-needles, and when I pull them back, I can see those feeder roots.  I wish that all were 100% white and healthy, but with weeks of rain this past month, I think they were getting a bit over-watered.  I see brown rot mixed in with the whites.

If you zoom in, you might see some of that in my pic below.  You might also see the little yellow balls, which come from that Osmocote Plus that just arrived from Amazon yesterday.  I beat you to the punch on that one.

I've been an avid tomato gardener for 20 years now, so I have cabinets full of various mycos and inoculants.  I amended the grow media/soil with some of these and worm-castings from my indoor bin and coffee grinds, etc.  I normally do a soil-drench with compost tea + Mycos at transplant, but it was late the other night and I forgot.  I could give VAM a try.  That one I haven't used before.  Why do you write "if it's not too late?"  Why would it be too late?

I enjoyed reading about the perpendicular V system in that UoG paper.  I have peaches too, and again limited row space, so that might work well for me there too.

Thanks for all the tips!

(https://s18.postimg.cc/4xrptcmd1/20180327_094002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4xrptcmd1/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/d39rrixr9/20180327_094031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/d39rrixr9/)

Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 29, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
BioAg VAM says you should sprinkle the powder on the roots.  I applied some in water after the fact.  Can't hurt.

Project looks great!

BTW, here's a photo of a Moro blood orange tree at the time I was expanding it.  Notice no root spinout and 2 large roots growing into the ground at the bottom.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/iw979nvkr/Moro_Repot_June2014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iw979nvkr/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 31, 2018, 11:58:50 AM
BTW, here's a photo of a Moro blood orange tree at the time I was expanding it.  Notice no root spinout and 2 large roots growing into the ground at the bottom.
(https://s9.postimg.cc/iw979nvkr/Moro_Repot_June2014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iw979nvkr/)
That "rootball" looks stellar.  It begs the question, why even grow the container.  I mean, what would be the downside of leaving the container as is?  I realize a larger container would allow for an even more expansive root system, but if you were to leave the container at that original size, would it really pose an problem for the blood orange tree in the long run?  I ask because I do have a limited space to continue expanding these containers, and also I would like to think I might transport them to some retirement home sometime in the future, but if they're over 100-gal (more realistically even over 50-gal), the chance of moving the trees without a tractor seems low to impossible.

I'll follow-up with a post on the "beneficials" tea inoculation I'm in the process of executing.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 31, 2018, 03:53:42 PM
To document everything I'm doing for these young avocado trees, I want to post a little bit about the beneficial bacteria/fungi tea that I've just brewed.  I used to purchase high-quality, deep forest compost (or use home-grown worm-castings) in AACT (Actively Aerated Compost Tea) brews.  Lately, I've just been using off-the-shelf products "fed" and aerated in my aeration barrel.  Here's what the setup looks like:
(https://s31.postimg.cc/4plfud8s7/20180330_120733.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4plfud8s7/)

Brewing Tea:
(https://s31.postimg.cc/4plfuej2v/20180330_120740.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4plfuej2v/)

For this time around, I started with a couple Tablespoons of Humic Acid Powder and a bit of the MycoGrow product mixed in (no carbs).
(https://s31.postimg.cc/g1y1caexz/20180330_120506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/g1y1caexz/)
(https://s31.postimg.cc/5rvmd2jxj/20180330_120815.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5rvmd2jxj/)

Actually, I started with an overnight aeration run of my 30G of tap water; then another overnight with the above.  I then added a bit of the Extreme Azos and Great White product along with some molasses (~1/3 cup).  This gives the beneficial bacteria something on which to feed.
(https://s31.postimg.cc/tiuzvamqf/20180330_120522.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tiuzvamqf/)
(https://s31.postimg.cc/mfn4fowqf/20180330_120719.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mfn4fowqf/)

I didn't choose these products for any particular reason.  They're just what I had in my cabinet from years past.  They're pretty old now, but they still seem to have some life in them.  I wonder if the race diversity will suffer due to their age??  After the first night brewing, I took an unstained pic @40x under the microscope, and I saw probably about 10% of dots in this capture moving.
(https://s31.postimg.cc/4plfure1j/WIN_20180330_12_35_11_Pro.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4plfure1j/)

After a second night with the additional products mentioned above (and carbs), I'd say 90% of the screen was abuzz in this pic.  I'm going to soil drench and maybe spray as a foliar with the reserves.  This should help with disease resistance and nutrient uptake.  It always has in the past from what I gathered with A-B tomato plant comparisons.
(https://s31.postimg.cc/ea52hot3r/WIN_20180331_12_28_43_Pro.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ea52hot3r/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 01, 2018, 08:11:43 AM
That "rootball" looks stellar.  It begs the question, why even grow the container.  I mean, what would be the downside of leaving the container as is?  I realize a larger container would allow for an even more expansive root system, but if you were to leave the container at that original size, would it really pose an problem for the blood orange tree in the long run?

Is you are a purist regarding Dr. Whitcomb's approach, just because you are using the system doesn't mean you shouldn't expand 4" more from the old to the new.  Meaning the diameter of the expanded, new pot, is 8" wider.  When the roots terminate they branch behind that termination point approximately 4".   I recently went to a 100 gal. pot on a Reed avocado because it's become a big tree with very large ground exposed roots.  Here's a picture of the gap I made and then backfilled on the Reed recently.

Opened up, ready for additional panels.  Notice no spin out:

(https://s9.postimg.cc/gb5yyx5rv/Soil_Pot.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gb5yyx5rv/)

Gap created by added panels:

(https://s9.postimg.cc/d4bffe8i3/Soil_Pot_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/d4bffe8i3/)

Open this up and you'll see the white roots which were exposed when the sidewall collapsed a bit during my manhandling.  This is looking down with the pot about 1/2 backfilled.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/62dhsqmrf/Soil_Pot_3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/62dhsqmrf/)

Finished and mulched, 100 gal. bottomless pot, 10 panels.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/oupcwd163/Soil_Pot_4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/oupcwd163/)

My pots are bottomless as opposed to many of Whitcomb's customers who make up pallets of trees using a fork lift to move them off and plant.  He makes fabric circles which are designed to be placed on the bottom before processing which entrap the tree roots.  Given one season of growth they form a bottom which can be picked up without any soil loss.

My Meyer lemon is still in its original small pot.  I plan to leave it there mainly because I grafted it on Flying Dragon rootstock which dwarfs about 40%.  Tree is about 7 years old and still a runt, but bears really heavy.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/bdsedv18r/Meyer_Nov16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bdsedv18r/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 01, 2018, 01:12:36 PM
My Meyer lemon is still in its original small pot.  I plan to leave it there mainly because I grafted it on Flying Dragon rootstock which dwarfs about 40%.  Tree is about 7 years old and still a runt, but bears really heavy.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/bdsedv18r/Meyer_Nov16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bdsedv18r/)

That Meyer tree looks excellent with all that fruit and green plumage.  I have 13+ citrus trees on dwarf rootstock that I mail ordered about a month before I got the RBII.  I potted them all up into ~5G nursery pots.  They came in small 4"x9" slot containers.  I'll probably give them a season in untreated pots before transplanting into RBII expandable containers.  My 5-6 year old citrus are planted in large 40-50-gal food-grade plastic wine barrels cut to leave three-quarters of the barrel intact.  The trees did great until they became root-bound.  They're so root bound now that water has a way of just passing through the pot top-to-bottom.  So I have to water them with 1" buried drip soaker hoses every couple hours when it's hot outside to keep them from drying out.  If I had a tractor, I'd lift the trees out, root-prune them, and then re-pot in expandable containers.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 02, 2018, 10:20:20 AM
You could also use conventional pots and paint them with a copper hydroxide laden latex paint.  I used Griffin's Spin-Out of years.

Yonemoto's Training Diagram:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/65w95y7wl/Screen_Hunter_85_Mar._26_15.19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/65w95y7wl/)

Just pinned a newly planted peach tree to this profile.  Drove rebar into the ground and tied the two opposing branches to it.  Here's a similiar concept.  May have already posted this, excuse me if I did.
http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches (http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 09, 2018, 12:44:19 AM
Today I finished pounding the T-posts, and I ran a bit of wire for the "trellis" supports.  I'm already trying to support the tiny limbs of these recently transplanted avocado trees.  They're pushing a lot of buds on the main trunk, and I've been popping them off to try and force energy to the 3-5 limbs they have now.  I believe if the limbs were appropriately positioned, I might not have so many buds popping.  Oh, they're also setup with drip irrigation now.  Summer is coming...

Here are a few pics:

(https://s31.postimg.cc/60322hxtj/20180408_191950_001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/60322hxtj/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/c2fa68bhz/20180408_191959.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/c2fa68bhz/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/rb57jzi13/20180408_192009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rb57jzi13/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/e6zn7b5ev/20180408_192022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/e6zn7b5ev/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/iepu2uzmf/20180408_192037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iepu2uzmf/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 09, 2018, 12:46:15 AM
You could also use conventional pots and paint them with a copper hydroxide laden latex paint.  I used Griffin's Spin-Out of years.

Yonemoto's Training Diagram:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/65w95y7wl/Screen_Hunter_85_Mar._26_15.19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/65w95y7wl/)

Just pinned a newly planted peach tree to this profile.  Drove rebar into the ground and tied the two opposing branches to it.  Here's a similiar concept.  May have already posted this, excuse me if I did.
http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches (http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C878&title=Simple%20Tree%20Training%20Technique%20for%20Peaches)

Hi Mark, I'll look forward to hearing how your peach tree performs in the configuration.   I have several peach trees planted on a terraced hillside.  They have less space in the Z dimension that in the x,y; so this might work well for them.
Thanks.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 09, 2018, 12:54:38 AM
Duke Avocado Grafting (Try #2)

We took another trip to "the Depot" (abandoned restaurant in Oroville, ca) to visit the two Duke Avocado trees there.  I took several less than optimal (no longer dormant) cuttings, and I have veneer grafted five of them to two avocado plants I purchased for the effort - a Stewart and Zutano.  At least one of the grafts went terribly, and I hope I didn't compromise the entire tree.  We'll see about the other four.  If any of these take, I'll be planting the tree in my front-yard.

Here are some pics of the trees in Oroville.  We also tried visiting Chaffin Family Orchards a little further north where they have a grove of Duke trees, but they seemed closed.  It's really beautiful up there right now.
(https://s31.postimg.cc/j6x3f88gn/20180407_144302.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/j6x3f88gn/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/gcty1stfr/20180407_144315.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gcty1stfr/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/gcty1t8vb/20180407_144323.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gcty1t8vb/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/pkm6ihss7/20180407_144645.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pkm6ihss7/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/6sabexbtj/20180407_144702.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6sabexbtj/)

(https://s31.postimg.cc/hf44kczef/20180407_144705.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hf44kczef/)

Up near Chaffin Family's Groves (a little beyond):
(https://s31.postimg.cc/wnu1y50sn/20180407_175253.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wnu1y50sn/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 10, 2018, 08:25:44 AM
Looking good.  If you top, don't do it low.  It can really cause some weird profiles.  Wait until it's about 6' tall.  Before the freeze my 10' tall Reed looked like a damn goalpost because I topped it at 18".  I never could correct it either.  It froze back but has 4 very thick super vigorous growths that will form the new profile - upright and bushy.

About 2 weeks ago.  It's put on another foot or so since then.

(https://s18.postimg.cc/nnivictc5/Reed_March31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nnivictc5/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 10, 2018, 08:29:15 AM
(https://s31.postimg.cc/j6x3f88gn/20180407_144302.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/j6x3f88gn/)

Wow, what beautiful landscape and that tree is so fine - stately, formal, grand.  Nice pix!

I just got thru grafting Stewart sticks on 2 Fantastic rootstocks and one Bacon.  Should make for a cold hardy tree.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 10, 2018, 11:31:34 AM
Looking good.  If you top, don't do it low.  It can really cause some weird profiles.  Wait until it's about 6' tall.  Before the freeze my 10' tall Reed looked like a damn goalpost because I topped it at 18".  I never could correct it either.  It froze back but has 4 very thick super vigorous growths that will form the new profile - upright and bushy.

About 2 weeks ago.  It's put on another foot or so since then.

(https://s18.postimg.cc/nnivictc5/Reed_March31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nnivictc5/)
Ah, shoot.  I'm new to this top-working business.  I could find only five reasonable graft sites on these two young trees, and I didn't want to place all my eggs in the basket of a full decapitation and cleft or T graft.  I'll post some pics of what I tried later.  I'm using the method that Carlos describes in his YouTube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqTfCGTcJnU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqTfCGTcJnU)

But I've probably botched it up, because I've actually got a graft on the side of the main trunk and then another further up the branch.  My guess is that isn't how this works, but again, I didn't want to put everything on just one grafter per small tree in case I had a total melt-down on the cutting/matching (or in the event my scion-wood was sub-optimal, which I believe it was/is in most cases).

I've also read that Duke is notoriously difficult to graft, but who knows on that account.  Time will tell whether I have any success with my first avocado grafting attempt.  I'd take a goal post over nothing.

Thanks for chiming in.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on April 10, 2018, 01:22:43 PM
I have a small project that involves planting several Avocado trees I recently purchased from the local nursery in RootBuilderII (RBII) expandable containers along the West x SouthWest side of my house.  I have planted Lamb Hass, Stewart, Holiday, Sir Prize, and Pinkerton.  My goal is try and keep the Avocados trained low and follow some of the precepts described in Dr. John Yonemoto's presentation here:
http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf (http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf)

Yonemoto's Training Diagram:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/65w95y7wl/Screen_Hunter_85_Mar._26_15.19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/65w95y7wl/)

I started with just a cleared 4' dirt row along my fence:
(https://s18.postimg.cc/pnqwm4a1x/20180227_091612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pnqwm4a1x/)

The 34lb boxes of 96-panel (100' rolls) of RBII arrived last Friday (3/23/18):
(https://s18.postimg.cc/rgtta2kud/20180324_140617.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rgtta2kud/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/h6reap57p/20180324_140627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h6reap57p/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/9e0qiu9k5/20180324_140605.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9e0qiu9k5/)

The packages came with a couple bags of 10" Zip-ties, but I had already purchased a hundred from the local HD.  It wasn't difficult to use kitchen shears to cut the panels to size (I chose 5 per for 20gal pots) and then zip tie through the holes.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/54w0goe0l/20180324_141529.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/54w0goe0l/)

I laid the 20-gal bottom-less "air-pots" out with ~8-10' spacing along the fence.   This was after rolling out 2-3 layers of weed fabric to (a) keep the neighbor's fruit tree roots out of my pots and (b) adhere to Yonemoto goal of limiting tap-roots.  This may come back to bite me down the road, as it will limit the vigor and trunk/branch strength of my trees.  But this is supposed to direct energy into fruiting and feeder roots.  We'll see.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/iykd5qm1h/20180324_143923.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iykd5qm1h/)

I then backfilled the pots with a mix of sandy dirt I had displaced earlier from the side-yard, peat moss, Coco-hulls, Perlite, worm-castings, and some other organics. I'm double-staking each tree w/ the center-stake they came with for maximum support.  The branches will be supported by trellises that run horizontal to the plane of the ground along the front of the trees.  I might try and squeeze a 2nd row of T-bars for another trellis behind the trees to help spread-out the branches.   Since the trees will be maintained at a low height, I'm hoping they'll be less susceptible to wind (also they are protected by fence and house), and they should be easier to cover with a frost cloth in the winter.  Half of the plants had some measure of root rot coming out of their nursery pots, but I hope they recover and thrive in their new homes.  I think my largest concern for the success of these avocado trees lies in the fact that they are getting limited sunlight due to their position between two houses.  I'm hoping that will not be a deal-breaker as the angle of the sun rises deeper into Spring/Summer.  I will try to post updates on this project over the coming months/years.  If anyone else has tried something similar, I'd love to know about it.  This evening after work I have to cut the tops off of each of these young trees.  That's going to be painful for me.
(https://s18.postimg.cc/3pufruabp/20180326_095757.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3pufruabp/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/f2719mqqd/20180326_095807.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f2719mqqd/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/lfw4cw3c5/20180326_095840.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lfw4cw3c5/)

(https://s18.postimg.cc/feyffu3v9/20180326_095855.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/feyffu3v9/)
please keep us posted! I live just north of Roseville and am excited to see how this goes. Where are you sourcing your avocados from?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 10, 2018, 03:07:41 PM
Hi Zephian, I was just in your neighborhood last Saturday (on my way to Oroville).

The five avocado trees you see in the RBII expandable containers were sourced from a couple different of the local Green Acres Nurseries.  They are sourced from Four Winds Growers.  I have an extra Lamb Hass and Holiday in addition to these five that I plan to plant in a large "raised bed" (more like 6' x 12' retaining wall over terraced hill).  I'm thinking I'll use the RBII containers for those trees as well, but I will leave the bottom open to allow the trees to root down into the raised bed.  Alternatively, I could do away with the RBII containers to allow more surface feeding roots in the plush raised bed material.  I'm dithering on what's the best approach there.

Finally, I have two more avocado trees (a Stewart and Zutano) that I purchased from the local HD to use for grafting experimentation.  I recently top-worked the trees with veneer grafted Duke scions.  Some pics to follow.  Please let me know if you post anything related to your fruit tree experiences in the area.  I'm looking for other local growers with whom to commiserate.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on April 10, 2018, 03:17:12 PM
Hi Zephian, I was just in your neighborhood last Saturday (on my way to Oroville).

The five avocado trees you see in the RBII expandable containers were sourced from a couple different of the local Green Acres Nurseries.  They are sourced from Four Winds Growers.  I have an extra Lamb Hass and Holiday in addition to these five that I plan to plant in a large "raised bed" (more like 6' x 12' retaining wall over terraced hill).  I'm thinking I'll use the RBII containers for those trees as well, but I will leave the bottom open to allow the trees to root down into the raised bed.  Alternatively, I could do away with the RBII containers to allow more surface feeding roots in the plush raised bed material.  I'm dithering on what's the best approach there.

Finally, I have two more avocado trees (a Stewart and Zutano) that I purchased from the local HD to use for grafting experimentation.  I recently top-worked the trees with veneer grafted Duke scions.  Some pics to follow.  Please let me know if you post anything related to your fruit tree experiences in the area.  I'm looking for other local growers with whom to commiserate.

I was at green acres Roseville Saturday and got my new holiday, our local HD has them but they're half dead already :( Might have to check out the other green acres nurseries. I'm finding mostly hass/bacon/mexicola up here. Does your holiday look like a wet noodle? Mine doesn't like to stay straight up and I'm trying to figure out the best way to grow it straight up. Currently I have it between two stakes about 2-4 inches out.

I'll definitely keep you in mind when ever I get around to posting some pics of my current setup and future projects. We just got the house about a year ago from a family member who had several trees and will be adding several more! I should be getting a GEM avocado while I'm in socal this month and im anxious to see how that does up here.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 10, 2018, 04:55:29 PM
Hi Zephian-

I've been trying to figure out a way to get my hands on  GEM too.  I couldn't figure it short of a trip down south.  If you do ever do some kind of group buy that I can get in on, please let me know.

Here's a pic of my Holiday. It's not as wispy as the Sir Prize, but it's overloaded with flowers and very light on Green.  I'm not sure if I should chop the flowers to help focus energy where it's needed.  The two Holiday trees I purchased were both affected by the 18F freeze we saw a while back, so they were pretty ugly, even coming from Green Acres.  What does yours look like?

(https://s7.postimg.cc/6afsf6ovb/holiday_20180408_192009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6afsf6ovb/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on April 10, 2018, 05:06:34 PM
Hi Zephian-

I've been trying to figure out a way to get my hands on  GEM too.  I couldn't figure it short of a trip down south.  If you do ever do some kind of group buy that I can get in on, please let me know.

Here's a pic of my Holiday. It's not as wispy as the Sir Prize, but it's overloaded with flowers and very light on Green.  I'm not sure if I should chop the flowers to help focus energy where it's needed.  The two Holiday trees I purchased were both affected by the 18F freeze we saw a while back, so they were pretty ugly, even coming from Green Acres.  What does yours look like?

(https://s7.postimg.cc/6afsf6ovb/holiday_20180408_192009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6afsf6ovb/)

I'll upload a picture when I get home, I had contacted their distribution and knew they were to receive from fresh plants last week. I don't see any damage to mine it's just really wiggly!
I'd love to pick up a couple GEM's while I'm down south (Disneyland with the wife) but my truck gets 17 mpg (Downhill) so we opted to take the corolla... I'm already going to be hard pressed to fit it in there but you bet I'm going to get it done!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 10, 2018, 05:30:21 PM
On the Duke front, I mentioned that I had attempted my first Veneer graft of an Avocado this past Sunday (4/8/18).  I obtained the scion-wood from the two Duke Avocado trees in Oroville, CA (cut on Saturday, 8/7/18).  The buds on this wood were not idea.  First, the trees were already deep into flowering and they were not pushing a lot of fresh green-buds (not dormant).  But I thought I found a few candidates, so I'm giving it a try.  As I mentioned before, I have grafts serially on the same trunk/branch pair, so that definitely means I'm going to have to toss one or the other in the end (maybe both if I'm not lucky).

I just have these trees in a spot that gets a lot of sun and is shaded in the afternoon.  I'm not sure if that's ideal or not.  If I do see any bud breaks in the coming weeks, I'll be sure to report back.  I expect these trees to be extremely cold hardy, but also produce "Excellent" fruit.


Stewart on the Left, Zutano on the Right (both purchased for ~$28 @HD):
(https://s7.postimg.cc/q908vdyyv/20180410_092333.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/q908vdyyv/)

Grafts with a black line represent those taken from the larger Duke tree (the one with a crutch holding it's foremost limb).
(https://s7.postimg.cc/dudgv3a1j/20180410_092357.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dudgv3a1j/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/4ml8efkzr/20180410_092453.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4ml8efkzr/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/t33e8vbfr/20180410_092505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/t33e8vbfr/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/sdklwhvgn/20180410_092523.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sdklwhvgn/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/qlrn1mu47/20180410_092545.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qlrn1mu47/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/oh7a0k7x3/20180410_092620.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/oh7a0k7x3/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on April 10, 2018, 08:59:38 PM
Hi Zephian-

I've been trying to figure out a way to get my hands on  GEM too.  I couldn't figure it short of a trip down south.  If you do ever do some kind of group buy that I can get in on, please let me know.

Here's a pic of my Holiday. It's not as wispy as the Sir Prize, but it's overloaded with flowers and very light on Green.  I'm not sure if I should chop the flowers to help focus energy where it's needed.  The two Holiday trees I purchased were both affected by the 18F freeze we saw a while back, so they were pretty ugly, even coming from Green Acres.  What does yours look like?

(https://s7.postimg.cc/6afsf6ovb/holiday_20180408_192009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6afsf6ovb/)
(https://s7.postimg.cc/iqlp0hwzr/20180410_175524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iqlp0hwzr/)
Finally home. Here's mine. Painted trunk brown and needs so touch up and retied.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 10, 2018, 11:13:19 PM
That plant looks healthy.  How were the roots?  The bottom-of-bucket roots on 3 out of 5 of mine were rotting.  I'm guessing yours was not, since that plant doesn't look like it would have bound-up a #5 nursery pot.  The caliper of your drunk seems narrower than mine, but maybe that plant is younger.  Are planning to transplant outdoors?  Container or in ground?  I believe the Holiday is about as cold-hardy as a Hass, so it will need protection.

Other than the GEM, I'd also really like to get my hands on a Reed.  If I have any success grafting these Duke scion, I may order some bud-wood (when the season is right) for some of the missing trees.  That said, I'm going to run out of room soon here.

Good luck.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on April 11, 2018, 01:45:20 PM
That plant looks healthy.  How were the roots?  The bottom-of-bucket roots on 3 out of 5 of mine were rotting.  I'm guessing yours was not, since that plant doesn't look like it would have bound-up a #5 nursery pot.  The caliper of your drunk seems narrower than mine, but maybe that plant is younger.  Are planning to transplant outdoors?  Container or in ground?  I believe the Holiday is about as cold-hardy as a Hass, so it will need protection.

Other than the GEM, I'd also really like to get my hands on a Reed.  If I have any success grafting these Duke scion, I may order some bud-wood (when the season is right) for some of the missing trees.  That said, I'm going to run out of room soon here.

Good luck.
The roots looked great! Though I am a novice. They were lightly packed in the container but I've seen much tighter root balls before. The tree seems to be doing very well since transplant sunday. Maybe it's the worm castings?... It may go in the ground in the next year or so. I will be babying it as we had a few days straight of temps below freezing this last winter. For now it will be potted. I did about half potting mix with alot of organic matter + 40% cactus/fruit tree mix and probably 10% worm castings. ($$$$$$$) I think she's going to do well!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 19, 2018, 03:12:15 PM
Over the past weekend, I had the unenviable job of having to fully deconstruct and reconstruct a wall I had put up as a terraced raised bed for tomatoes and other veggies several years back.  I got sloppy and failed to back the wall with any gravel, stones or crushed rock.  The result after several years was a caved-in, leaning, and unstable wall and about 20-hours of hard manual labor to redo it.  I've built several other walls like this before and after this one, and all of those are straight, strong, and well backed.  Lesson learned.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/qa7h4a6uv/20180419_094753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qa7h4a6uv/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/exuvmj0qv/20180419_094808.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/exuvmj0qv/)

After correcting the wall, I placed a couple Avocados (one Holiday and one Lamb-Hass) in 6-panel RBII expandable containers.  These will have open-bottoms into 3 feet of lush garden bed soil.  It will be interesting to see how these compare in health, productivity and staying alive-ness compared to the five I have planted in 5-panel RBII along the side of my house.  The Holiday had a lot of rotting/rotten roots in its nursery pot, though the LH seemed healthy.  I'm beginning to regret having purchased two Holiday plants, based on the growth pattern I'm seeing on the two I have (all flowers) and other information I've recently found on the forum.  Maybe I can top-work them in the future.

Here are a few more pics.  If you look closely, you might see some of the free-ranging chickens in the background, and my newly planted tomato seedlings in the fore.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/6sctodznb/20180419_094837.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6sctodznb/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/seru5eqhz/20180419_094848.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/seru5eqhz/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/5db8zodzr/20180419_094900.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5db8zodzr/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/vydrv8o2v/20180419_095032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vydrv8o2v/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/el3hge0hj/20180419_095040.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/el3hge0hj/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 20, 2018, 08:09:49 AM
Looks really good!   Someone has been flexing their back fer sure.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on April 20, 2018, 10:48:06 AM
Looks like someone has been busy!  Good work.

On those trees on the retaining wall, why not just plant in ground?  They will grow a lot larger without the pots.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 20, 2018, 11:06:35 AM
Yeah, a lot of back and abdomen flexing is right.  In fact, through all the fat, I almost thought I saw the barely discernible outline of a long lost "six-pack."  It's since melted back into my gut, but the back pain is still with me.  But thanks for the kind words.

Spaugh, on those two retaining wall trees, I dithered in my mind back and forth about whether or not to use the RBII pots.  I concluded that the trees would be larger and happier in the long run outside of the pots, but I also want to experiment more with the pots and compare the results of two trees that I have on the side of my yard (same varieties) with a tarp blocking their bottoms vs. these trees here that are bottomless.  I want to see the difference in the two methods.  Also, I hold out some hope that were we to move in 5-10 years, I might be able to sever the tap roots below these trees, cut them way back, and relocate them.  That's probably a fantasy.  Finally, I was worried about the roots of the local existing flora intermingling with the avocado roots and the avocado roots spreading into areas of the raised bed where I'd still like to grow vegetables.  Its seems like with the container, I'll have tap roots going down for the avocado but not spreading out laterally.  That should allow me to dig down around the avocado pots and sever the invading roots (like I have to do every year) and also not have to worry about the entire bed getting overrun with Avocado roots.

So that was the deliberation I had on this topic.

Mark, why didn't you just create a large raised-bed for your green-house tropics?  Why go the RBII expandable container route?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 21, 2018, 11:02:39 AM
On those trees on the retaining wall, why not just plant in ground?  They will grow a lot larger without the pots.

They are in the ground.  They're bottomless.  The benefit of having this special raised bed containing excellent potting soil is the tree gets off to a fast start.  The root system becomes very fibrous and efficient.....lots of quick root mass.  It eventually roots into native soil.  Most avocado roots are in the top 12" of soil anyway.  The tree is harvesting nutrients and water using the pot as a carrier as the nutrients move downward.  Take my clay "loam" soil - it's hard as a rock when dry, mushy when wet.  My trees are vigorous, I have/had to top most of my trees at 10' at least once a year.

One can not understand the value of root tip termination systems until they've played with them.  They've been used in the forestry biz for decades.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 21, 2018, 11:08:11 AM
Mark, why didn't you just create a large raised-bed for your green-house tropics?  Why go the RBII expandable container route?

1. Botanical value of the system,

2.  I'd be wasting a lot of money on fill material.

Biggest I will ever go is with this Reed in a 100 gal. pot.  It froze back, is making a ferocious come back.  I've had a Meyer lemon on Flying Dragon in a little 20" pot that overloads us with fruit every year. 

(https://s18.postimg.cc/3qqbpemf9/Reed_April11_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3qqbpemf9/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Tropicalnut on April 21, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Good morning;
How come I can only see the last pictures posted here and no the others? Thanks!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 21, 2018, 12:59:56 PM
Hi Mark,

Thanks for chiming-in on the value prop.  Each time I see a new pic of your recovering Reed, I get a smile.  I'm sure you'll miss a season of harvest with that one, but it will be impressive to see it pushing out blooms in a year and back to productivity after.  I will agree that putting up the RBII pots is very easy.  Cut to size and four tie-wraps.  Fill, then done.  It's all the other prep that take time, like the wall building part.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 21, 2018, 01:01:50 PM
Good morning;
How come I can only see the last pictures posted here and no the others? Thanks!
That's a great question.  I'm somewhat new to this forum, so I can't answer but I hope someone else can.  I'd hate to see all the work I've done to pictorially document this project go down the tubes.  I noticed this on a few other threads as well.  Can any of the moderators or hero members help explain why the pics have just today disappeared for most of this thread?  Is there something I can do to recover them?

Thanks for the support.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 23, 2018, 08:26:43 AM
Yep, all my photos documenting some botanical approach gone.   :-\    Here's a thread on the issue - http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27817.msg317137#msg317137 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27817.msg317137#msg317137)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 23, 2018, 11:15:41 AM
Yep, all my photos documenting some botanical approach gone.   :-\    Here's a thread on the issue - http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27817.msg317137#msg317137 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27817.msg317137#msg317137)
Thanks for the link Mark.  I thought I might have broken some bylaw of the forum.  I spent 30 minutes trying to find a thread on this issue yesterday, but couldn't find one.  I'll go read yours now.  I'm holding off posting more pics until this issue is resolved.  No point in losing more context.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on April 24, 2018, 03:18:29 PM
I've gone ahead and manually updated all the postimg.org links that I "own" in this thread to the new postimg.cc link.  Folks should be able to view the pics that I sourced now.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on July 30, 2018, 06:20:21 PM
Any updates on this project? I'd love to see more pictures of local avocados!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: trang2le on August 08, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Hi Z_willus_d,
Are you still looking for Reed avocado? Four Winds Growers is selling it, and the nursery also has 10% discount for the entire order between 8/1/18 and 8/8/18. Enter the coupon code, SAVE10, at check out.
https://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/collections/avocado-trees (https://www.fourwindsgrowers.com/collections/avocado-trees)

Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 05, 2018, 12:29:02 AM
Hi trang2le-

This is great news.  I haven't been on the site for a month or so.  I've been heavily involved at work.  I was checking 4-winds growers regularly and didn't see any avocados for sale, let alone the Reed.  Thanks for the heads up.  I'll put an order in ASAP.

I will take some pictures and post on my project soon Zephian.  We need to compare notes.
-naysen
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 10, 2018, 12:16:15 AM
It's been a while since I gave an update on this project.  The trees have been out from Spring and through Summer now.  They've had a chance to thrive or dive.  I've lost five out of nine of the trees that were planted.  Those all were the weakest at the outset, and two were victims of my veneer grafting experimentation.  I did have a strong Duke scion for a while, but the mother plant seemed to fade, and it took the graft along with it.

It's interesting to juxtapose the pictures of these trees that I took in April to those from this week.  Those that survived look more or less the same size and health as the original specimens.  I know that most of the original leaves fell, and those were replaced with more bug-eaten versions of the same.  Here are some pics.  I wonder if these will survive the Winter.  Four Winds nursery has a good stock of trees for sale right now, including Reed, which is difficult to find in this area.  I'm dithering on whether to wait for next Spring to purchase them, or grab them through the web now.  I'd love to hear how Zephian and the others are fairing with their similar projects.

Lamb-Hass:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/lgcxu78j5/20180906_185341.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lgcxu78j5/)

Mostly dead Stewart:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/dnma29sa9/20180906_185349.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dnma29sa9/)

Holiday hanging on:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/rhamrbd5t/20180906_185404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rhamrbd5t/)

Threadbare Sir Prize:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/ghpffq269/20180906_185417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ghpffq269/)

Pinkerton:
(https://s8.postimg.cc/hjzly9spd/20180906_185431.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hjzly9spd/)

I've got three avocados on my five year old trees in containers.  2 on one (Furte) and 1 one more on a Bacon; nil on the Mexicola.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/k1bd5ia0x/20180906_185512.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/k1bd5ia0x/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/6x5ssta9d/20180906_185535.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6x5ssta9d/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/3qb99758x/20180906_185544.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3qb99758x/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on September 10, 2018, 12:36:57 AM
I lost my lamb hass and holiday to overwatering. Replaced them with Stewart and holiday from home Depot and reported same day and guess what?...root rot. They are doing OK now though. Where did you find reed? Brad just sent me a huge Reed I think we are trying tomorrow and if the wife loves it I'm screwed.... lol. I've been focusing on some other plants but the avocados are the wife's favourite thing to eat.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 10, 2018, 09:34:49 PM
Sorry to hear about your losses.  Do you have any pics showing your HD replacements?  I'm curious how much they've advanced through the summer compared to my plants.  You can find the Reed on sale at Four Winds Nursery.  It's $35 + shipping.  I ordered a bunch of citrus from them in the mail last year.  I wasn't so happy with the size of the plants, but they've all survived and don't show any signs of disease.  It's a better deal if you can grab a 5G tree at the local nursery for the same price.  Sometimes four winds has a 10% off coupon running, but they don't seem to have one right now.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on September 14, 2018, 10:43:20 AM
The replacement trees are only a couple of weeks old now. Not much to show.
Holiday wasn't in the best shape and a branch has dropped it's leaves already but hasn't withered up.
I think it will make a recovery but we will see.
The stewart seems alot more forgiving and the Hass has come back from a pretty bad root rot issue. I'll send some pictures in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 15, 2018, 01:36:51 PM
Gotta share a pic of my Reed taken yesterday.  Photo doesn't do it justice.  It's just shy of 10' tall and is about 8' wide.  How in the hell it took 18F for a few hours and came back is beyond me.  I can only assume that the thick canopy provided for a nice "warm" micro climate.  The roof peak is 18' by comparison and the pot is 100 gals. waiting to host another avocado tree.   It gets mostly rainwater and nothing but Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor encapsulated food.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/lykv1xkqf/Reed_Sept14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lykv1xkqf/)

Pretty sad back in March.  I left 3 main shoots which are now thick trunks.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/wzklk67cn/Reed_March6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wzklk67cn/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 16, 2018, 02:10:47 AM
That Reed of your is becoming legendary Mark.  I think that'll be one you pass on to the next generation.  You missed flowering this year, right ?  I guess it was in staying alive mode after the freeze.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm looking forward to more.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 16, 2018, 01:01:42 PM
Late yesterday, I pulled the one remaining dead Avocado from my Spring plantings.  Five of nine died in all, however at least three of the five were already dead going in (hailstorm survivors, and rotting root systems) from the outset.  I haven't yet replaced the others, but this replacement is a Stewart.  It fills out the five tree slots I still have growing on the side of my yard.  None are thriving now, but all are alive.  It will be interesting to see how well I can protect them going into the colder seasons.

Something I always puzzle over is the water habits at the nursery.  The general conclusion for why my trees did so poorly early on was that the soil medium was too absorbent and that the trees had wet feet.  So the old leaves would turn brown and drop.  A lot of new leaves seemed to fizzle up and dry before they even got started.  I'm still not 100% convinced it was for over-watering with my once a month one or two gallons watering regime early on.  But to the original point, whenever I stop by and check these trees at the nursery, they are soaking wet in their 5G pots.  I think they water twice a day, morning and evening.  They are grown in a kind of redwood chip heavy soil, that seems to get really wet.  Low perlite/vermiculite content.  I'm wondering how they can water the trees this way and not have problems, whereas I am barely watering them at my house and the assumption is over-watering.  It could be the limited light these trees get on the side of the house is in part to blame, however of the five trees that fizzled, four were in full or nearly full sun.  Only one of the five on the side of the house died.

Here are some pics of the new Stewart.  It's the best of about six available at the Roseville, CA Green Acres Nursery.  They're all Four Winds Growers stock.  Kind of expensive at ~$38 a tree.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4wdywv3ox/20180916_094055_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4wdywv3ox/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/q61l7pzf5/20180916_094113_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/q61l7pzf5/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5yo5ff9nl/20180916_094132_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5yo5ff9nl/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 16, 2018, 04:07:40 PM
Sorry to hear about the root rot and I agree, redwood bark is gonna hold a lot of water but it's the exlusion of air that's the problem.  This suggests their mix is breaking down fast...the soil structure sucks.  I use at least 50% coarse inorganics like coarse vermiculite in my mixes.

Yeah, no flowers on the Reed.  Was lucky to have it come back from a stump so it's all good.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on September 16, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
Late yesterday, I pulled the one remaining dead Avocado from my Spring plantings.  Five of nine died in all, however at least three of the five were already dead going in (hailstorm survivors, and rotting root systems) from the outset.  I haven't yet replaced the others, but this replacement is a Stewart.  It fills out the five tree slots I still have growing on the side of my yard.  None are thriving now, but all are alive.  It will be interesting to see how well I can protect them going into the colder seasons.

Something I always puzzle over is the water habits at the nursery.  The general conclusion for why my trees did so poorly early on was that the soil medium was too absorbent and that the trees had wet feet.  So the old leaves would turn brown and drop.  A lot of new leaves seemed to fizzle up and dry before they even got started.  I'm still not 100% convinced it was for over-watering with my once a month one or two gallons watering regime early on.  But to the original point, whenever I stop by and check these trees at the nursery, they are soaking wet in their 5G pots.  I think they water twice a day, morning and evening.  They are grown in a kind of redwood chip heavy soil, that seems to get really wet.  Low perlite/vermiculite content.  I'm wondering how they can water the trees this way and not have problems, whereas I am barely watering them at my house and the assumption is over-watering.  It could be the limited light these trees get on the side of the house is in part to blame, however of the five trees that fizzled, four were in full or nearly full sun.  Only one of the five on the side of the house died.

Here are some pics of the new Stewart.  It's the best of about six available at the Roseville, CA Green Acres Nursery.  They're all Four Winds Growers stock.  Kind of expensive at ~$38 a tree.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/4wdywv3ox/20180916_094055_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4wdywv3ox/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/q61l7pzf5/20180916_094113_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/q61l7pzf5/)
(https://s8.postimg.cc/5yo5ff9nl/20180916_094132_resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5yo5ff9nl/)
At home depot here in town they definitely water it daily. I think you don't see issues because the nurseries out here have such a small inventory they cycle through it pretty fast - before the root rot starts too show.
I have removed all mulch from my trees so they can dry out a bit more.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on September 16, 2018, 04:22:50 PM
Took some pictures real fast. My trees are a bit droopy... It's pretty hot in the back yard right now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xNv9RNzG/Hass.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNv9RNzG)
This is the Hass I got in SoCal in march. Came back from pretty bad root rot.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pp8XCRfR/Hass_Leaf.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pp8XCRfR)
Biggest leaf on the Hass

(https://i.postimg.cc/K4BcFwHK/Holiday.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K4BcFwHK)
Holiday already recovering from dropped foliage and bad root rot from home depot

(https://i.postimg.cc/LnS9sDcx/Stewart.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LnS9sDcx)
Stewart from home depot
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 16, 2018, 04:43:48 PM
Hi Kris, thanks for sharing your pics.  Your trees look a notch ahead of mine, though we purchased and planted over the same period this year.  How much light are the trees getting where you have them.  I believe the limited light on my trees has been a detriment, resulting in "leggy" branching.  On the plus side, they aren't getting too damaged by sub burn on the 110F days.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on September 16, 2018, 04:55:45 PM
I dont know which direction your side yard faces etc but defintely lack of daylight hours is no bueno.  Avocados need all day sun exposure to really grow well.  They would do better out in an exposed area under a shade cloth than in an area that only gets half of the hours of sun. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on September 16, 2018, 05:13:46 PM
Mine are east facing. I plan to move them to my side yard soon as it's cooling off now. the 110+ weather cooked everything in my yard. I painted the trunk on the hass because sunburn was becoming an issue for me. Remember that my holiday/stewart are new additions and not from my original few earlier this year... once they go permanently in the ground they will be in the easternmost part of my property but that corner gets almost full sun all day.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on September 16, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
South-East facing seems to do best in our climate.  If you can get afternoon shade after ~4pm, and exposure to the cooler morning light that works well.  I used to have all my citrus in the middle of the yard getting full sun for the entire day, and those trees just cooked and dropped all their fruit, regardless of the amount of water I gave them.  After moving them to the east side of the house where they get shade from 3-4 pm forward, they've been thriving for me.  The avocados on the side of my house will get half day sunlight (at least the first four), but if they can manage to grow a bit taller, they should get closer to 6 - 8 hours.  I'm not sure this project will pan out, but I'll stick with it for the time being.  Having them tucked up between the house and fence line should make it easier to protect them from frosts at least.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 17, 2018, 10:34:19 AM
Mine are east facing. I plan to move them to my side yard soon as it's cooling off now. the 110+ weather cooked everything in my yard. I painted the trunk on the hass because sunburn was becoming an issue for me. Remember that my holiday/stewart are new additions and not from my original few earlier this year... once they go permanently in the ground they will be in the easternmost part of my property but that corner gets almost full sun all day.

For shading nothing beats the ease of application and effectiveness as Surround WP.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 24, 2019, 11:18:03 PM
It's been a while (since September last year) since I last posted any pics of avocado trees in my side-yard project.  I have the original five still hanging-in there.  I can't say that the trees have thrived, but neither have they died.  We had an average winter, with several freezing days.  I've used C9 lights to get the trees through the cool nights.  I think the biggest issue they've faced has been a lack of sunlight (~5hr a day or less).  Here are some pics, and I expect the trees will start to drop a lot of their leaves before flushing anew.

Pinkerton (gets the most sun of the five):
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyw2qbfV/20190324-143932.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyw2qbfV)

Lamb-Hass (2nd best looking of the bunch):
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9Fd8dkH/20190324-143946.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9Fd8dkH)

Stewart:
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2PDgcgt/20190324-144025.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2PDgcgt)

Holiday:
(https://i.postimg.cc/d74WTbrF/20190324-144031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d74WTbrF)

Sir Prize (looking raggedy):
(https://i.postimg.cc/ct8T26j1/20190324-144040.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ct8T26j1)

The line:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wt6fMqtF/20190324-144013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wt6fMqtF)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on March 25, 2019, 11:49:09 AM
I have been waiting for this update!
My Hass is starting to drop it's old leaves and push new growth and looks like your holiday is blooming like mine!
Mine will be going in the ground hopefully next month - I just dropped a 30 ft palm tree where they're going to be planted and need to chip and dig up some roots in the planting zone. Ill try and grab some pictures if I can find my digital camera to compare... My phone camera will no longer focus.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 25, 2019, 01:13:13 PM
Hi Kris, it will be good to compare and contrast with your trees.  I'm not too hopeful, but it will be interesting to see if any of these 2 year old (from nursery) trees will be able to set or even hold any fruit this season.  I'm planting my three big, mature potted avocado trees in the ground in my front yard soon.  I'm going to need a crane or a human beast to lift the water-heavy root ball out of the container.  I'll post on that effort once they're settled an in the ground.  I'm still digging the holes through my rock/bolder laden front yard.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on March 25, 2019, 01:45:01 PM
If you let a tree that size hold fruit its going to stunt its growth. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 25, 2019, 01:56:08 PM
If you let a tree that size hold fruit its going to stunt its growth.
Point taken.  My experience with Avos in pots is that they will not set fruit until they are much beefier than what I'm showing.  But then you look at what Dr. John Yonemoto is doing in their greenhouses, and you see short, small trees overloaded with fruit.  And stunting the growth seems to be the point there.  I can't help but feel I am missing a few ingredients for that recipe though.
-n
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on March 25, 2019, 02:35:51 PM
I know its tempting but in the long run it is much better to let the tree gain some size and vigor before letting it hold fruit. 

I have a lot of little trees like that.  No way I'm letting them fruit yet.  I have some 2 year old trees 6 -10ft tall Im still not letting hokd fruit this year.  The fruit doesnt mature properly and the summer heat gets wasted on fruit set instead of leaf flush.

This little gwen tree thinks it wants to fruit already.

(https://i.postimg.cc/gxGDLW9H/20190309-074119.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxGDLW9H)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 25, 2019, 04:07:21 PM
Brad, that's some serious flowering you've got there.  Do you think it's worth chopping off the flowering shoots, or just the fruit (if any sets)?  Honestly, I haven't had much success even setting fruit in the young small trees I've grown in containers, let along holding.  This last year was my first to set and hold a few fruit on 6-7 year old trees.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: alangr088 on March 25, 2019, 04:15:32 PM
An update on Sir Prize and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize is flowering a lot (Sir Prize pics are from March 09) compared to all the foliage that lamb hass is putting out and not so many flowers (picture of lamb hass from a couple of days ago) ... The Queen in the middle died due to sunburns. I’m trying to tie down the branches up against the trellis...we will see how that works out though.


(https://i.postimg.cc/hQqTdHZB/1368-C54-C-9-F0-D-4-FCA-816-E-E7172-E8-D1-F7-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQqTdHZB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3kLXcfNX/381-DF6-C8-08-E9-4-C9-D-AD6-F-473-B06591-A14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kLXcfNX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/GBVkcBk9/890-DE218-D4-C9-459-E-A11-C-2-BE819-DE3-A09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBVkcBk9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VdWBjkcH/DCA0-DCF6-F72-C-4-DE1-AD71-83-DD296-C12-F7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdWBjkcH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WDhGLmqQ/FA14-D337-0864-4299-8-EBD-E6112-E91-C7-F2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDhGLmqQ)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on March 25, 2019, 04:41:59 PM
Brad, that's some serious flowering you've got there.  Do you think it's worth chopping off the flowering shoots, or just the fruit (if any sets)?  Honestly, I haven't had much success even setting fruit in the young small trees I've grown in containers, let along holding.  This last year was my first to set and hold a few fruit on 6-7 year old trees.

I will just let it flower then once the blooms are done if theres any fruit will get removed. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 25, 2019, 06:25:32 PM
An update on Sir Prize and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize is flowering a lot (Sir Prize pics are from March 09) compared to all the foliage that lamb hass is putting out and not so many flowers (picture of lamb hass from a couple of days ago) ... The Queen in the middle died due to sunburns. I’m trying to tie down the branches up against the trellis...we will see how that works out though.


(https://i.postimg.cc/hQqTdHZB/1368-C54-C-9-F0-D-4-FCA-816-E-E7172-E8-D1-F7-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQqTdHZB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3kLXcfNX/381-DF6-C8-08-E9-4-C9-D-AD6-F-473-B06591-A14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kLXcfNX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/GBVkcBk9/890-DE218-D4-C9-459-E-A11-C-2-BE819-DE3-A09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBVkcBk9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VdWBjkcH/DCA0-DCF6-F72-C-4-DE1-AD71-83-DD296-C12-F7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VdWBjkcH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WDhGLmqQ/FA14-D337-0864-4299-8-EBD-E6112-E91-C7-F2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDhGLmqQ)

Your trees are looking great -- lots of new, healthy growth.  I worry a bit about how close they are to the side of the house there, and the windows can send sun-laser-beams to fry plants, but I take it you've got it under control.  I think the Lamb-Hass will send out its flower buds some time later in the year.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: alangr088 on March 25, 2019, 10:16:16 PM
Thank z_willus_d...I figure I make use of the baby side yard since I never walk thru there anyways.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 26, 2019, 07:41:51 AM
In the old days I about killed a row of grapevines cause I let them hold fruit on "2nd leaf".  When to let a tree hold fruit is your call. It depends on several factors  regarding canopy mass to fruit load. For starts avocado trunk girth speaks volumes when it comes to whether or not the tree is ready. That trunk should be mature - woody and thick. 

Your project is well designed.  You'll need to expand those "raised beds" probably by next year since avocados have spreading but shallow root systems.  I have a a mass of fine white roots under a 4-6" mulch.  When they get up to 60-100 gal. use 4 heavy black cable ties running vertically spanning 3-4 holes.  I begin with the second hole from the top, drop down to the 4th hole and tie.  When done wrap a 18 ga. wire around the midsection and cinch it up tight.  I've had quite a few citrus and avocado pots bust at the seams.  Then again, i have Texas sized root systems.   ;D

I also like to hand water.  I can control the flow and area insuring myself there are no dry holes in the medium.  I'll go thru 200 gals. of rainwater when I really get after it.

Have fun!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 26, 2019, 08:06:56 AM
A little off topic but since we're talking about blooming, check this out.  In Feb. I grafted 4 varieties of peaches and one apricot variety, 30 in all, to an old peach tree that I had stumped in 2018 for shoots production.  I raided my commercial peach growing friend's orchard and got sticks to extend the season on my cocktail tree.  About 2 weeks ago we had some nasty lows from an Arctic front, we're talking 21F for many hours.  I lost some blossoms on the old tree (and that's OK) but the grafts are OK...... many pushing pink blossoms thru the Buddy Tape!  Noticed yesterday a lot of the new grafts are now pushing green foliage.

(https://i.postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH/Peachgrafting-Feb7-4-Send.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH/Peach-Graftspushing-March20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH)

Point being, never underestimate a tree's ability to take severe cold, IF, it's been subjected to cold temps (acclimated) prior to when the big one hits and is in good health.  My beloved Reed is a perfect example - supposedly not cold hardy below 30F or so, froze back during the 18F 2018 freeze and is now this 12' beast with a huge flush of beautiful new RED leaves with flowers beginning to open.  Pollinators are having a ball and the greenhouse smells so fine.  I'll post an updated photo soon.

You can pretty much guess the heritage of your tree if you know which races have what colors with their juvenile new growth.  Reed is pure Guatemalan with red juvenile leaf color.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 26, 2019, 08:12:49 AM
An update on Sir Prize and Lamb Hass. Sir Prize is flowering a lot (Sir Prize pics are from March 09) compared to all the foliage that lamb hass is putting out and not so many flowers (picture of lamb hass from a couple of days ago) ... The Queen in the middle died due to sunburns. I’m trying to tie down the branches up against the trellis...we will see how that works out though.

Trees look great!  Don't mean to be an alarmist, but I can't help it.  I've seen the roots of a large avocado tree bust a slab, big time, when planted 2-4' away. It cracked and lifted the slab about 4".  Couldn't believe it but since avocado roots are shallow it stands to reason.

Here in Texas we keep our oaks at least 20' or so away from our slabs.  My slab has 5/8" rebar in the beams and I still planted my trees at a distance.  I hope your foundation is pier and beam.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: alangr088 on March 26, 2019, 11:48:15 AM


Thanks Mark in Texas. Yea I was a bit hesitant of doing it at first. Only time will tell. Ill keep them pruned to a small size though which should help. I am from Houston so I know what you mean about those Oak trees. My parents have a Pecan tree that's huge maybe 100 feet tall, I wont let these avocados get that big!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2019, 02:20:26 PM
In the old days I about killed a row of grapevines cause I let them hold fruit on "2nd leaf".  When to let a tree hold fruit is your call. It depends on several factors  regarding canopy mass to fruit load. For starts avocado trunk girth speaks volumes when it comes to whether or not the tree is ready. That trunk should be mature - woody and thick. 

Your project is well designed.  You'll need to expand those "raised beds" probably by next year since avocados have spreading but shallow root systems.  I have a a mass of fine white roots under a 4-6" mulch.  When they get up to 60-100 gal. use 4 heavy black cable ties running vertically spanning 3-4 holes.  I begin with the second hole from the top, drop down to the 4th hole and tie.  When done wrap a 18 ga. wire around the midsection and cinch it up tight.  I've had quite a few citrus and avocado pots bust at the seams.  Then again, i have Texas sized root systems.   ;D

I also like to hand water.  I can control the flow and area insuring myself there are no dry holes in the medium.  I'll go thru 200 gals. of rainwater when I really get after it.

Have fun!

Great advice all around Mark.  I miss the white roots, though I've seen them from time to time on my older Avos.  I now find more of a yellow, beige colored root generally when I lift the mulch.  We've had heavy rain 9 days out of 10 for the past three months, so I expect many of the avocados are a bit damp in their root systems.  The soils is well draining in the "raised beds" at least.  I like to hand-water everything as well, but as the number of trees and vegetables has increased and with limited time, I find that I will miss several days of irrigation without automation.  In our 110-degree summers, that can spell disaster.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 26, 2019, 02:23:45 PM
A little off topic but since we're talking about blooming, check this out.  In Feb. I grafted 4 varieties of peaches and one apricot variety, 30 in all, to an old peach tree that I had stumped in 2018 for shoots production.  I raided my commercial peach growing friend's orchard and got sticks to extend the season on my cocktail tree.  About 2 weeks ago we had some nasty lows from an Arctic front, we're talking 21F for many hours.  I lost some blossoms on the old tree (and that's OK) but the grafts are OK...... many pushing pink blossoms thru the Buddy Tape!  Noticed yesterday a lot of the new grafts are now pushing green foliage.

(https://i.postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH/Peachgrafting-Feb7-4-Send.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH/Peach-Graftspushing-March20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH)

Point being, never underestimate a tree's ability to take severe cold, IF, it's been subjected to cold temps (acclimated) prior to when the big one hits and is in good health.  My beloved Reed is a perfect example - supposedly not cold hardy below 30F or so, froze back during the 18F 2018 freeze and is now this 12' beast with a huge flush of beautiful new RED leaves with flowers beginning to open.  Pollinators are having a ball and the greenhouse smells so fine.  I'll post an updated photo soon.

You can pretty much guess the heritage of your tree if you know which races have what colors with their juvenile new growth.  Reed is pure Guatemalan with red juvenile leaf color.

Mark, the girth on that Peach tree trunk is impressive.  It seems like ones success with grafting is tied to the health of the host plant, and one with such a mature and robust trunk can't help but take off.  I'm envious.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 27, 2019, 09:07:02 AM

Mark, the girth on that Peach tree trunk is impressive.  It seems like ones success with grafting is tied to the health of the host plant, and one with such a mature and robust trunk can't help but take off.  I'm envious.

About 12" girth.  Before I butchered it it was 25' W X 15' tall and that's in spite of the scaffold branches being about 18" to 24" parallel to the ground.

2/24/2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/06Jg5NdG/Havester-Pruned.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06Jg5NdG)

I understand about the heat but my avocados et al seem to take it well.  Again, if you start to get some sun scald a spray of Surround will take care of it.

Just posted some pix of Reed, etc.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.175 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.175)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 27, 2019, 04:30:50 PM
Mark, I can tell you did a great job training that Peach tree.  It must have borne some beauties in its day.  It will be neat to see how your cocktail evolves over the coming years, and what kind of fruit you get out of it.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 28, 2019, 08:29:55 AM
Mark, I can tell you did a great job training that Peach tree.  It must have borne some beauties in its day.  It will be neat to see how your cocktail evolves over the coming years, and what kind of fruit you get out of it.

I'd get eight 5 gal. buckets off that tree.  Wife makes a great peach/blackberry cobbler.   I have a commercial peach grower friend that has 42 varieties.  He gives me free run on any of them for scions.  I chose varieties early midseason to late to extend the season.

(https://i.postimg.cc/V0BSkz7n/Peaches-June15-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0BSkz7n)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: shot on March 28, 2019, 09:57:11 AM
In south florida if you trim that hard on a peach the tree will decline because of rot to the large limbs removed,cannot callus over wounds.Might work in more arid conditions.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 29, 2019, 09:40:26 AM
In south florida if you trim that hard on a peach the tree will decline because of rot to the large limbs removed,cannot callus over wounds.Might work in more arid conditions.

So true.  I just got thru pruning the vineyard with many cuts to thick wood using loppers instead of Felcos. I have never treated/sprayed after pruning.

In Florida I'd probably hit the cuts with a copper fungicide like Phyton 35.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: shot on March 29, 2019, 09:50:29 AM
I can get MagnaBon’s CS 2005 good price,company in state.I think the company may been bought out now.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on April 01, 2019, 08:18:39 AM
I can get MagnaBon’s CS 2005 good price,company in state.I think the company may been bought out now.

Frank Miele is the man. I assume he still owns it?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on May 20, 2019, 01:55:55 PM
Here's an update with some pics from the first of the month (5/1/2019).  In order, I have Lamb Hass (2x), Stewart, Holiday, Sir Prize (2x), and Pinkerton (2x).

(https://i.postimg.cc/18d2pzKY/20190501-092501.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18d2pzKY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/H8Thp8pj/20190501-092538.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8Thp8pj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XXgPsL85/20190501-092608.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XXgPsL85)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0mgP2rZ/20190501-092625.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0mgP2rZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1nhdjY2G/20190501-092641.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nhdjY2G)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWJ9vrgq/20190501-092656.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWJ9vrgq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BXYV0vRQ/20190501-092755.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BXYV0vRQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hfP56my5/20190501-092810.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfP56my5)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on May 20, 2019, 02:01:43 PM
And here's a pictorial update from earlier this morning.  We've been having unseasonably cool weather with a lot of Spring rains this past week.  The trees seem to be happy enough.  In order, I have Lamb Hass, Stewart, Holiday, Sir Prize, and Pinkerton.


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvmT7wSx/20190520-093628.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvmT7wSx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yky7X0Jp/20190520-093639.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yky7X0Jp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bshztmv2/20190520-093647.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bshztmv2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xqHf8w92/20190520-093701.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqHf8w92)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zyD8d3Kz/20190520-093720.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyD8d3Kz)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on May 20, 2019, 02:07:58 PM
Also, I want to point out that Surround is damn near impossible to remove.  It's withstood direct hosing, several inches of sustained rain, wind, squirrels...  I think my biggest issue with it is that aesthetically, it's really a bummer.  I'm surprised I'm as affected by the looks of it as I am.  It's also irritating the way Anakin describes sand and dust at the end of some prequel or another.  Other than that, the only thing to note is the Holiday is the most insipid of the bunch, while the Lamb Hass the most robust and strengthy, that despite probably getting the least light.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 20, 2019, 02:43:41 PM
Looking good. Anything that repels squirrels can't be half bad.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 02:53:35 PM
A little off topic but since we're talking about blooming, check this out.  In Feb. I grafted 4 varieties of peaches and one apricot variety, 30 in all, to an old peach tree that I had stumped in 2018 for shoots production.  I raided my commercial peach growing friend's orchard and got sticks to extend the season on my cocktail tree.  About 2 weeks ago we had some nasty lows from an Arctic front, we're talking 21F for many hours.  I lost some blossoms on the old tree (and that's OK) but the grafts are OK...... many pushing pink blossoms thru the Buddy Tape!  Noticed yesterday a lot of the new grafts are now pushing green foliage.

(https://i.postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH/Peachgrafting-Feb7-4-Send.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHdTJ9dH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH/Peach-Graftspushing-March20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyLKYDqH)

Point being, never underestimate a tree's ability to take severe cold, IF, it's been subjected to cold temps (acclimated) prior to when the big one hits and is in good health.  My beloved Reed is a perfect example - supposedly not cold hardy below 30F or so, froze back during the 18F 2018 freeze and is now this 12' beast with a huge flush of beautiful new RED leaves with flowers beginning to open.  Pollinators are having a ball and the greenhouse smells so fine.  I'll post an updated photo soon.

You can pretty much guess the heritage of your tree if you know which races have what colors with their juvenile new growth.  Reed is pure Guatemalan with red juvenile leaf color.
That peach its a work of art.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 21, 2019, 08:36:00 AM
That peach its a work of art.

Thanks.  Some folks really get carried away this this stuff.  I have a Facebook friend growing near San Francisco that put 250 apple varieties on his tree.  Does the same crazy stuff on other fruits like pear.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on October 01, 2019, 04:49:41 PM
Zombie post!

Hey z_willus_d, do you have any updates on these trees?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on October 02, 2019, 10:56:53 PM
Hi Kris, sure I do.  I've been babying them all season, though they really didn't set any viable fruit this round.  But as is the usual, the trees look best about this time of year before the cold snaps hit.  I'll aim to take some pictures of the five RootBuilder bound trees to show their progress.  Their size is impressive, on most (ignoring the weeping Holiday).  How are your trees fairing?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on October 03, 2019, 08:45:20 AM
I've lost most of my trees. Only one that is pushing growth is my stewart. Mexicola looked good for most of the summer then just roasted that last 100+ heatwave we had. Hopefully my guava and papayas will help shade that area next year but I'm probably only going to replace one plant, I'm a lazy gardener...
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on October 03, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your losses.  That's a real bummer.  It's usual the cold that gets them not the heat.  I thought you were going to use Surround or something like that to protect the plants?  I still have a bunch if you want some.  Here's an updated set of pics from this morning (10/3/2019).  I recently top-dressed everything with worm-castings from my warm farm (mainly fed coffee-grinds).

Pinkerton (gets the most sunlight):
(https://i.postimg.cc/6TmkWpYL/20191003-092339.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TmkWpYL)

Sir Prize:
(https://i.postimg.cc/75vjzQv5/20191003-092354.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75vjzQv5)

Holiday, drooping as always:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yJjGw1DR/20191003-092415.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJjGw1DR)

Stewart:
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFfH156b/20191003-092441.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFfH156b)

Lamb-Hass (the best looking of the bunch):
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HbG7Y21/20191003-092459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HbG7Y21)

Lamb-Hass Close-up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2xzvF9f/20191003-092508.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2xzvF9f)

Holiday Close-up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/FdK6vMSB/20191003-092535.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FdK6vMSB)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on October 03, 2019, 10:02:30 PM
I also figure I might as well post updated pics of the three Avocado trees I transplanted to the front yard earlier (either this year or late last -- somehow I can't recall).  They had a hard go early on, but they've recovered well through the summer.  I hope they can weather the winter and come through next Spring to set (and hold) a lot of fruit.  Each tree has fruited a bit previously while in pots, but they dropped all fruit after the transplant this Spring.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKMgXnm8/20191003-093947.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKMgXnm8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3vtW9XX/20191003-093957.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3vtW9XX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7GWJtzDW/20191003-094005.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GWJtzDW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HJ3y5KNH/20191003-094013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJ3y5KNH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pmf8VyYm/20191003-094029.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmf8VyYm)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on October 04, 2019, 03:57:20 PM
Trees are looking amazing well done.  Yard looks tidy too, I bet the neighbors will be jealous of your trees.  Not a lot of people around there with their own avocado trees. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on October 04, 2019, 05:21:18 PM
Hi Brad, nice to hear from you.  Thank for the kind words.  I just hope the trees can survive the winter and produce.  I always enjoy following your posts.  All the best.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: behlgarden on October 04, 2019, 05:26:09 PM
I've lost most of my trees. Only one that is pushing growth is my stewart. Mexicola looked good for most of the summer then just roasted that last 100+ heatwave we had. Hopefully my guava and papayas will help shade that area next year but I'm probably only going to replace one plant, I'm a lazy gardener...

were you fertilizing your plants during summer? its a recipe for disaster if you fertilize during summer heat wave in dry California climate.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on October 04, 2019, 05:48:21 PM
Trees were painted and covered in surround. Stewart still had some burn but is pushing growth. Mexicola and reed seedling couldn't handle it.
Probably my fault for planting them so late in the season. I hope to replant one earlier in the spring next season. I also learned to never order directly from four wind growers. I received a fuerte from them that died within two weeks of receiving it and all they would offer me is 50% off and I had to pay shipping again.

Trees did not receive any fertilizer, just mulch. Mine were on an elevated sand and dirt pile I hauled in by the truck.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on October 20, 2019, 10:55:46 AM
Ditto z_willu_d, place looks amazing!

Trees were painted and covered in surround. Stewart still had some burn but is pushing growth. Mexicola and reed seedling couldn't handle it.
Probably my fault for planting them so late in the season. I hope to replant one earlier in the spring next season. I also learned to never order directly from four wind growers. I received a fuerte from them that died within two weeks of receiving it and all they would offer me is 50% off and I had to pay shipping again.

Trees did not receive any fertilizer, just mulch. Mine were on an elevated sand and dirt pile I hauled in by the truck.

Yeah am really sorry but this doesn't make sense.  We have heat, lots of it.  In fact we had a very weak "cold" front move thru yesterday afternoon and when I checked on the greenhouse it was 110F.  I didn't have my fans going.  It's hit 112F this summer and most daily temps were 100F + especially in July.  Trees are fine.

Are you giving them enough water in respect to your sandy soil structure and how is the water quality?  My citrus really started looking stressed out until I really upped up my watering.  However, our water quality is the pits with bicarbs of Ca and Mg thru the roof.  TDS is like 800 ppm at times.  Rains stopped (we're in a drought now) so I had to resort to well water rather than rain as I ran out of the latter.  Surprisingly they are fine.  FWIW, most of my trees are on Florida pits which have W. Indies genes in them, those big fat watery greenies.  I've tried a lot of rootstocks but nothing is a better match for our well water or imparts more vigor than Florida pits seedlings.

My Reed can take all the heat you throw at it. Here's a list of avocado varieties that take heat well during a SoCal heatwave.
http://gregalder.com/yardposts/heat-tolerance-of-avocado-varieties/ (http://gregalder.com/yardposts/heat-tolerance-of-avocado-varieties/)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on January 14, 2020, 11:33:19 AM
Ditto z_willu_d, place looks amazing!

Trees were painted and covered in surround. Stewart still had some burn but is pushing growth. Mexicola and reed seedling couldn't handle it.
Probably my fault for planting them so late in the season. I hope to replant one earlier in the spring next season. I also learned to never order directly from four wind growers. I received a fuerte from them that died within two weeks of receiving it and all they would offer me is 50% off and I had to pay shipping again.

Trees did not receive any fertilizer, just mulch. Mine were on an elevated sand and dirt pile I hauled in by the truck.

Yeah am really sorry but this doesn't make sense.  We have heat, lots of it.  In fact we had a very weak "cold" front move thru yesterday afternoon and when I checked on the greenhouse it was 110F.  I didn't have my fans going.  It's hit 112F this summer and most daily temps were 100F + especially in July.  Trees are fine.

Are you giving them enough water in respect to your sandy soil structure and how is the water quality?  My citrus really started looking stressed out until I really upped up my watering.  However, our water quality is the pits with bicarbs of Ca and Mg thru the roof.  TDS is like 800 ppm at times.  Rains stopped (we're in a drought now) so I had to resort to well water rather than rain as I ran out of the latter.  Surprisingly they are fine.  FWIW, most of my trees are on Florida pits which have W. Indies genes in them, those big fat watery greenies.  I've tried a lot of rootstocks but nothing is a better match for our well water or imparts more vigor than Florida pits seedlings.

My Reed can take all the heat you throw at it. Here's a list of avocado varieties that take heat well during a SoCal heatwave.
http://gregalder.com/yardposts/heat-tolerance-of-avocado-varieties/ (http://gregalder.com/yardposts/heat-tolerance-of-avocado-varieties/)
Mark: Somehow I never saw this post. It may be worth noting our 110+ degree summers are at 0% humidity. I have no idea how the water quality is but I've never had any leaf burn issues so I don't think that's an issue. Well see how they do this summer.

Naysen, how are your trees holding up? mine seem to be doing pretty well with rain(LOL, what little we've had) and frost. I'm only noticing minor tip damage on one tree. They look like they're about to push new growth.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on January 14, 2020, 11:58:34 AM
Hi Kris, I think we only dipped below freezing a couple times, and briefly, this winter (so far).  I hope this weather holds through late winter and spring.  If so, all the avocado trees will be thriving come late spring.  The side yard trees are all looking great, except that some of the leaves took a bit of discoloration and damage after the one large freeze we had a month or maybe two back.  They all look ready to push new buds.  One of the trees, a Bacon I believe, that I transplanted to my front yard -- one of three older Avos actually pushed out new blooms when we had a warm streak of days after that cold drop.  I guess the tree though Spring had come early.  I'm not sure what will become of all the blooms.  I'm thinking I might lose any chance of a crop on that one.  You can see some pics in the big avocado thread.

The five trees in my side yard all seem to have grown up some with beefier trunks, which is nice to see.  I probably need to expand their RootMaker containers by one slab each this Spring.  I think they're ready for a little extra room there.  I'll post an update after Spring if/when they set any fruitlets.  I hope your endeavors are growing well.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on February 11, 2020, 09:19:29 AM
I probably need to expand their RootMaker containers by one slab each this Spring.  I think they're ready for a little extra room there.  I'll post an update after Spring if/when they set any fruitlets.  I hope your endeavors are growing well.

Happy to here all is well.  When I add panels I add no fewer than to make the resulting gap 4". That's approximately how much lateral root growth you'll get behind the terminated root tip.  IMO adding just one panel is make work and not effective.  I usually go 3-4.  I only have about 2-3 beds to increase and i'm done with my dozen or so trees.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on February 11, 2020, 10:19:34 AM
Hi Mark, thanks for the insight.  I had imagined a new panel each year, but you're probably right that it's not worth the effort at such a low incremental volume increase.  Do you bump up the volume every year, or more infrequently?  We've had an extra warm winter so far here, so I'm hoping all the trees come through without the usual heavy leaf drop and reset.  How's it going there?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on February 22, 2020, 10:13:41 AM
Hi Mark, thanks for the insight.  I had imagined a new panel each year, but you're probably right that it's not worth the effort at such a low incremental volume increase.  Do you bump up the volume every year, or more infrequently?  We've had an extra warm winter so far here, so I'm hoping all the trees come through without the usual heavy leaf drop and reset.  How's it going there?

I get to a certain size and stop expanding.  No need to go any bigger since they are rooted in the ground.   There is one exception, this Meyer lemon on Flying Dragon rootstock has been in it's own little "pot" forever.  I had to butcher it so I can get to the panels to process them soon.  I bet this tree gave us 600 lemons this year.  I gave away most of them.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYJsxmwT/Meyer-Jan3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYJsxmwT)

This is my no-shit treatment of heavy clay loam, knife subsoiler with a foot.  ;D 2' down, criss cross passes.  Field planted stuff goes nuts since the roots find the fractures and root in quick.  It's all about the roots. I actually ran this thing in the greenhouse over the proposed spots before the walls went up.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yJjJD0x/cypress.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yJjJD0x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XX0fphCP/cypress-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XX0fphCP)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 22, 2020, 04:11:19 PM
Hi Mark, I just saw your reply (a month late).  The lemons on that Meyer!  I hope you're taking care and living well off the land.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 26, 2020, 06:47:11 AM
Hi Mark, I just saw your reply (a month late).  The lemons on that Meyer!  I hope you're taking care and living well off the land.

Howdy, doing pretty damn good, hope you are too.  Going to put a Lisbon lemon t-bud on the Meyer soon.   Am trying to deal with all the Covidiots that are hoarding this and that. 

Yesterday I finished up caging my maters using RootBuilder.  Key is to give them a damn good root system and shade them on the (due) east of the greenhouse from about 2:00 p.m. on. They get full sun before then.  Subsoiled, fractured, the clay loam 2' deep.

Citrus crop was/is over the top.  Am enjoying Moro blood oranges now.

Newly grafted, 10' X 8' W Sharwil/Lamb Hass is exploding in blooms, setting fruit.  Newly grafted Ardith, GEM, Pinkerton are blooming and setting fruit. Big Reed has yet to show blooms.  Very exciting!

(https://i.postimg.cc/qzxcMd8V/Tomatoes-March25.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzxcMd8V)

Don't put up with any shit from a Covidiot.  ;D
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on March 28, 2020, 05:01:07 PM
Hi Mark, one positive of this Shelter in Place is that I'm really catching up on all the chores at home.  I had been out of the country and abroad for 5 out of 6 weeks (work stuff), and all the trees and gardening suffered.  I now have a late garden sprouting in the garage, and today I finished juicing/freezing/canning the:
- Limes
- Lemons
- Pomelos
- Grapefruits
- And left-over oranges

I'm well stocked for citrus for the year, to say the least.

Plenty of other choirs in the outdoors getting accomplished as well.  The Avocado trees are looking good so far.  We had a super mild winter, so I'm hoping for a banner year there.  I'll post some pics and an update later in April.  Have fun!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on March 29, 2020, 09:57:49 AM
Yep, catch up time for ya'll.  Been retired for 15 years and can't ever seem to catch up.  Maybe if I got off this device once in a while......  :)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on May 27, 2020, 05:12:21 PM
I haven't given an update on the side-yard Avocado trees since early Oct. last year.  The trees have fleshed out somewhat and have dropped most of their "last-year leaves"; their replacements are coming in well enough.  I've also had good fruit set through Spring, however roughly 80% of the set has now dropped, and with the 105F+ highs here this week, I'm actively seeing and expecting more dropping.  The Lamb-Hass and Pinkerton are holding the most fruit at present, and they set at opposite ends of the side-yard alley.  Certainly, the Pinkerton gets far more sunlight, which may now be a detriment for the first time this year with the temps where they are at.  The other three trees are holding between 2 and 6 fruitlets with the droopy Holiday performing the worst of the bunch by any metric.  Here are the pics with some annotations.

Here's a view from the start of the side-yard alley with Lamb-Hass in the foreground:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ygHnBhHs/IMG-0149.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygHnBhHs)

Lamb-Hass:
(https://i.postimg.cc/V0NqLDHQ/IMG-0150.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0NqLDHQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rd6NCGzx/IMG-0151.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rd6NCGzx)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QHtmXxR9/IMG-0152.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHtmXxR9)

Stewart (note the 3-panel wider container):
(https://i.postimg.cc/c61MmL19/IMG-0153.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c61MmL19)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MMq0gW7G/IMG-0154.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMq0gW7G)
(https://i.postimg.cc/svNc1Crn/IMG-0155.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svNc1Crn)

Holiday:
(https://i.postimg.cc/cgh7SVhB/IMG-0156.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgh7SVhB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mP1SHpZT/IMG-0157.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mP1SHpZT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/R3QK7jkx/IMG-0158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3QK7jkx)

Sir-Prize:
(https://i.postimg.cc/N2LXwL5Q/IMG-0159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2LXwL5Q)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8jJvKF2H/IMG-0160.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jJvKF2H)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XZ09yVDg/IMG-0161.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZ09yVDg)

Pinkerton:
(https://i.postimg.cc/w7CmSqHd/IMG-0162.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7CmSqHd)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fkgXf7ry/IMG-0164.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkgXf7ry)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0z7wvT2K/IMG-0165.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z7wvT2K)

Melting hot:
(https://i.postimg.cc/HrTpJR9y/IMG-0166.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrTpJR9y)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: odin.9 on May 28, 2020, 11:05:48 AM
z_willus_d your trees look great! wow!
How much water a week do they take right now?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on May 28, 2020, 12:20:58 PM
Hi Odin-

Thanks.  It's been a long journey to get here, and it continues... I have the small quarter-inch soaker dripline hose you can buy at the H.D./Lowes/the web, embedded in circles around the base of the trees in the RootMaker containers. I'd estimate each sees around 5-8' of hose, and there is a 0.5 GPH dripper every foot along the hose.  Right now, I have them set to water with my drip system for all the other backyard plants (but not the main garden and several other trees I have) 3-4 times a day.   I was doing a 4-min dwell, but I recently turned it up to 8-min with the crazy heat we're getting here.  I am probably over-watering, but I saw some droopy leaves in the midday a while back when it was only in the mid 80's, so I decided better to waste some water than have the trees drop too much fruit just for lack of water.

Also, my soil mixture is very well draining.  In fact, I'm in the tedious process of expanding the RootMaker RootBuilder 2 containers for the first time.  I'm learning about a few things that I overlooked that I will show with some pics later.  The soil mix I'm using right now is roughly 1/3 Peat (and/or Coco coir fibers), 1/3 decomposed granite, and 1/3 a mix of this and that including things like aged chicken manure from my birds, worm castings from my worms (and some purchased), pathbark fines, and various amendments like humic acid, gypsum, mycos, etc.

A lot of the roots for the trees are escaping the RootMaker containers at the bottom periphery of the container where I mistakenly allowed mulch (the black wood chips) to abut and build-up .  This gave the roots, over time, and escape route through the first one, two, and a few cases three RootMaker air-holes.  Once the roots had a way out, and with all the water run-off, they took off and spread flat along the available space below the mulch and above the weed guard layer I ran to block the ground below.  This means that when I walk on that mulch, I likely damage the roots.  It also makes it damn near impossible to actually expand the container, but I've developed a painful work-around.  I'll describe that in a follow-up post along with some pics.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 14, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
I've finished expanding the five expandable RootBuilder 2 enclosures I have holding the five avocado trees along the side of my house.  One warning for anyone (including future me) trying this is to take care not to allow mulch, dirt, debris, detritus or otherwise to build up around the bottom rows of the perforated "container."  What can happen, as was the case with my trees is the roots will find themselves an escape route out the bottom rungs of the enclosure where ever they don't meet atmosphere at the exit holes.  This presents a serious issue when trying to expand the container, especially for root sensitive plants like an Avocado.

My solution was to cut out the container losing the bottom two rows of holes (or ~2-3").  This shortened the height of my expanded container but allowed me to expand without further damaging the roots.  The roots were spreading out the lower row(s) of holes and developing under my wood-chip mulching, where I assume the excess water was leaking and spreading out over the weed barrier I had laid down beneath the mulch.

I'm sure my avocado roots took something of a beating from all the stepping on the mulch and extraction process, so I've certainly dropped a good 75% of my fruit.  But I'm sure the long term outlook is improved with these plants with the 3 additional panels of RootMaker.

I'd love to hear from anyone else using the containers on how they've managed with them, results and outcomes.

Thanks!

Here are some pics of one of the containers during the expansion process:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zb7fcsSG/IMG-0171.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zb7fcsSG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/t1hJhZsP/IMG-0170.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1hJhZsP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZSswF8m/IMG-0169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZSswF8m)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5Yb0p4zr/IMG-0168.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Yb0p4zr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9zcRYptf/IMG-0167.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zcRYptf)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 17, 2020, 08:59:44 AM
Excellent job, pots are working as designed. 

I hand water, FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.  Don't want to chance any dry channels with drip.

I need to take some pix.  Greenhouse has become a jungle and moving around is getting hard to do.  I too lost about 80-90% of my avocado fruit sets but most on fairly new grafted trees that are 6-10' tall.

In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH/Orange-Sherbet-Branch-June9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: odin.9 on June 17, 2020, 11:15:30 AM
FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.

what's your method for this?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 17, 2020, 03:03:06 PM
FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.

what's your method for this?

Cold beer in one hand, fireman's nozzle on a garden hose on the other.  Most times rain water, sometimes well.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 17, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH/Orange-Sherbet-Branch-June9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH)

Mark, I think I would have ruined my month if I had taken that branch off.  That fruit looks amazing.  I was watering with a tin can the other day and popped off the largest Avocado on my Lamb-Hass (and  nice and shaded it was too).  I had a sour mood the rest of the day after that one.  I'm curious, what is your water schedule for the mature avocados you have there.  Assuming 90F+ temps, are you watering daily with a good soaking?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 19, 2020, 09:42:30 AM

Mark, I think I would have ruined my month if I had taken that branch off.  That fruit looks amazing.  I was watering with a tin can the other day and popped off the largest Avocado on my Lamb-Hass (and  nice and shaded it was too).  I had a sour mood the rest of the day after that one.  I'm curious, what is your water schedule for the mature avocados you have there.  Assuming 90F+ temps, are you watering daily with a good soaking?

I water about every 1 - 2 weeks depending on season and temps.  I'll go a month or so on mangoes in the winter, often on avocados.

Just recently I realized I haven't been watering enough for years.  Stepped it up and man what a difference.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 19, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
Hi Mark, I think once a week deep watering is probably idea where the roots are well established and you have decent water retention.  In my case, these five trees are in containers with the roots blocked at the bottom, so they don't have the deep tap root and ability spread far and wide.  That said, as I noted, they are (or were) escaping at the bottom and feeding along the mulch layer just above the root barrier I placed over the ground.

I have three more mature trees I planted in my front yard in the ground.  They set incredible amounts of fruit (like thousands) but nearly all dropped.  I think one tree has three fruit right now, and another has 2-3.  I'm wondering if the soak tubes I embedded within the mulch layer that runs over those trees could be providing too much water, since they tie in with my drip system that runs several times a day.  The soil is well draining, so I don't think the trees are sitting in a puddle.  It's backwards that the nearly 10 year old trees planted in the ground with trunks 2-3x in diameter have so much less fruit than these ones in the side-yard that get less light, aren't afforded any ground rooting, and are half the age or less.  I'll figure it out one day.  The leaves on the three front yard trees look nice.

I hope you have a great garden this year.  Send some pics as the tomatoes and everything ripen.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Seanny on June 19, 2020, 01:37:29 PM
My young tree dropped all the fruits.
Now it’s older it’s keeping fruits.

Don’t worry about your young trees.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 19, 2020, 10:08:01 PM
Hi Seanny,

Thanks for responding.  I think I wasn't clear in my previous response.  The younger trees are doing well.  Sure they drop a lot of fruit, but it's expected.  It's my older tree (~10 years) that I am concerned about.  They were transplanted to ground a couple years back.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 21, 2020, 08:00:57 AM
Hi Mark, I think once a week deep watering is probably idea where the roots are well established and you have decent water retention.  In my case, these five trees are in containers with the roots blocked at the bottom, so they don't have the deep tap root and ability spread far and wide.  That said, as I noted, they are (or were) escaping at the bottom and feeding along the mulch layer just above the root barrier I placed over the ground.

Why didn't you go bottomless?

Been doing salad plates like this almost every night.  Member sent me some SoCal Hass.  They are unreal, best Hass we've ever eaten which stands to reason - homegrown.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXhBBFyV/Salad-Plate-Brad.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXhBBFyV)

As posted in my thread, Reed got blown off the tree.  Have 25 or so hanging.  Damn good for early in the season.  Weird that the seed pushed a root radicle.


(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBtjV3vC/Reed-Fruit-June21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBtjV3vC)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 21, 2020, 01:29:46 PM
Hi Mark, those platters look amazing.  My sungolds are just coming in.  I can't wait for the rest of the garden to begin harvest.  I'll be waiting on the 50 or so candidate avocados for another year.

Remember, I didn't go bottomless for a couple reasons; listed here in order of severity (High->Low):
1) These trees are planted along the side of my house adjacent to the neighbors yard (just a couple feet over across a fence).  They have very mature fruit trees (plum, pear, cherry, etc.) that have roots which have invaded most of my yard.  I planted some blueberries in the ground some 20' away from these trees, and found the younger blueberries in a pot produced loads more and grew, where as those in the ground were insipid.  They were overrun with the neighboring tree root system.  The same has been true of a garden bed I keep that's in the vicinity of those trees.  I'd have to dig a trench of 2-3 feet down and lay down some metal siding to attempt and address the problem, but the ground is so boulder, stone, and rock ridden, it would require some heavy equipment and a lot of space to do that.
2) I wanted to keep the option to take some of these trees with me if we ever decide to move to a new location.  I know that transplant will be very rough on the trees, but they should be able to survive the ordeal.  If you read up on the RootBuilder site, they talk about wrapping the container in burlap material for transporting.  I think the idea is you just remove the container, pull-up the burlap and transport.  I don't think that was meant for trees that are multiple years in their site.  Maybe I'll get to test the idea some day.
3) Well, I had a three sometime ago, but I can't remember it.  Oh well, (1) and (2) suffice.

Thanks for always chiming in.  It's gotten quite (it seems), though I haven't been keeping up as much.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 21, 2020, 02:23:20 PM
Howdy!  Sounds like a solid plan, good on ya!

Salads keep us old pHarts reggie ya know.


(https://i.postimg.cc/F1LmV9vY/Salad-Plate-Brad-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1LmV9vY)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on June 21, 2020, 02:30:34 PM
Looks like another stellar platter.  Y'all are eating like royalty there.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: pczhou on July 28, 2020, 12:41:02 AM
Did you ever get any fully ripe avocados? Do they grow in Sacramento area?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on July 28, 2020, 04:43:37 AM
Did you ever get any fully ripe avocados? Do they grow in Sacramento area?
Hi, last year I got 3 or 4 of which most were quite good.  These were from three mature trees in large 50-gal container pots.  I've since transplanted each into my front yard.  This year the five side-yard avocados are holding a fair amount of fruit.  This is their 2nd season in the RootMaker/Builder containers.  The first year they were too immature to hold any fruit.  This year, they are doing much better with the Pinkerton looking the best with 20+ fruits of about half full maturity (size).  This is followed by the Lamb-Hass, with quite a few fruit as well.  The Sir Prize and Stewart had a lot of fruit at the start, but are now down to 3-4 each.  The Holiday is the worst of the bunch, currently holding onto just one sole fruit.  We're having an extended heat swell here, so I'm hoping the plants don't decide to drop a bunch of fruit from the stress.  The last few times we had multiple 100F+ days back-to-back, I had several fruit drop.

So, that's where I'm at currently.  I think you can definitely grow avocados here, but you need to properly protect and baby them.  You need the right varieties (not necessarily what I'm growing).  And you need patience.  In any case, I've learned a lot over the years, and I think there's a chance I'll get some decent harvests in the long term.

If you have any specific questions, let me know.

Good luck.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: pczhou on July 28, 2020, 10:12:59 AM
Thank you for the useful information. I live near you and nobody in my family has ever been able to get any avocados here. Then again, we used to live where the Hass avocado was originally created and couldn't get any avocados there either. We don't know why we never got any fruit but perhaps because there are no bees in our area.

The lowest temps we've been getting is 30 degrees, and only for a few hours. So I want to try the super tasty varieties. I'm concerned about the 105+ degree weather the most, and the saline water supply.

I recently got a Hass, Pinkerton, Sir Prize, Reed, and Jan Boyce in 5 gallon containers. My family eats 600 avocados per year. Do you think 6 avocado trees in 50 gallon containers can produce this much (100 avocados per tree)?



(https://i.postimg.cc/pp14qz7G/20200722-153945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp14qz7G)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Bush2Beach on July 28, 2020, 04:57:21 PM
No chance on that kind of production. I wouldn’t count on any and then you’ll be happy with whatever you do get.
Thank you for the useful information. I live near you and nobody in my family has ever been able to get any avocados here. Then again, we used to live where the Hass avocado was originally created and couldn't get any avocados there either. We don't know why we never got any fruit but perhaps because there are no bees in our area.

The lowest temps we've been getting is 30 degrees, and only for a few hours. So I want to try the super tasty varieties. I'm concerned about the 105+ degree weather the most, and the saline water supply.

I recently got a Hass, Pinkerton, Sir Prize, Reed, and Jan Boyce in 5 gallon containers. My family eats 600 avocados per year. Do you think 6 avocado trees in 50 gallon containers can produce this much (100 avocados per tree)?



(https://i.postimg.cc/pp14qz7G/20200722-153945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp14qz7G)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on July 28, 2020, 05:03:20 PM
No chance on that kind of production. I wouldn’t count on any and then you’ll be happy with whatever you do get.
Thank you for the useful information. I live near you and nobody in my family has ever been able to get any avocados here. Then again, we used to live where the Hass avocado was originally created and couldn't get any avocados there either. We don't know why we never got any fruit but perhaps because there are no bees in our area.

The lowest temps we've been getting is 30 degrees, and only for a few hours. So I want to try the super tasty varieties. I'm concerned about the 105+ degree weather the most, and the saline water supply.

I recently got a Hass, Pinkerton, Sir Prize, Reed, and Jan Boyce in 5 gallon containers. My family eats 600 avocados per year. Do you think 6 avocado trees in 50 gallon containers can produce this much (100 avocados per tree)?



(https://i.postimg.cc/pp14qz7G/20200722-153945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp14qz7G)

What you dont think you can pull 100 avocados per pot?

I only get that much on big mature size in ground hass trees. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Nyuu on July 28, 2020, 06:20:35 PM
Spaugh hey do you think you may get some Dusa is close to expiration https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP15309P3/en
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on July 28, 2020, 09:17:43 PM
Spaugh hey do you think you may get some Dusa is close to expiration https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP15309P3/en

No, I find clonal rootstocks completely underwhelming.  Just have no interest or use for them personally. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on July 29, 2020, 08:17:32 PM
Do you think 6 avocado trees in 50 gallon containers can produce this much (100 avocados per tree)?
(https://i.postimg.cc/pp14qz7G/20200722-153945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp14qz7G)

I'm assuming this question is quasi-facetious.  I think 100 avocados for a young tree in a container would be a very blessed harvest indeed.  You best bet for achieving results like that might be to go back and read through Dr. John Yonemoto's presentation that I referenced at the start of this thread here:
http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf (http://htfg.org/conferences/2016/2016_JohnYoshimiYonemoto_GrowingandHarvestingtheBestAvocados.pdf)

Good luck!
-naysen
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Nyuu on July 30, 2020, 08:06:06 AM
Some information maybe useful https://youtu.be/rX9pwyFb1rU
But I disagree a little with some of the things he says
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Nyuu on July 30, 2020, 08:32:34 AM
I try get Carmen Hass avocado  but I don't know if anyoe sale it in FL so I like know best for me get one . I know California grow them there but I think it you can't shipped out soil so thinking about getting some Scion wood .
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 12:13:46 AM
This past couple days here in Sac Valley have been scorching hot.  The trees are starting to burn.  The Lamb Hass has shown the worst of the bunch.  It's dropped several half mature size avocado fruit as a result.  I guess it's not well adapted to the intense heat, or maybe its proximity to our air conditioning unit's exhaust has something to do with the increased burning of new leaves.

Here are some pics...

Intense heat spikes:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDwKDqsp/IMG-0254.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDwKDqsp)

Lamb-Hass now under a shade cloth (after taking damage):
(https://i.postimg.cc/gLk5s2r0/IMG-0255.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gLk5s2r0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4m3kbBh1/IMG-0256.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4m3kbBh1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jt19MPKW/IMG-0257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jt19MPKW)

Some damage on Sir Prize:
(https://i.postimg.cc/LhDF1rhX/IMG-0258.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhDF1rhX)

So far, Pinkerton is doing well, and holding on to the most and best looking fruit:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dh7bg36k/IMG-0259.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dh7bg36k)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkFg7BYr/IMG-0260.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkFg7BYr)

Pom's not happy:
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKZzxxNk/IMG-0261.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKZzxxNk)

Chickens aren't happy:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBL26dbg/IMG-0263.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBL26dbg)

Tomatoes et al. are crispy too:
(https://i.postimg.cc/232g6hXL/IMG-0264.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/232g6hXL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6yPSVwK9/IMG-0269.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yPSVwK9)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 18, 2020, 09:14:27 AM
I am sorry.  Might want to buy some Surround kaolin.  Much easier to apply.   Hopefully this clime from hell breaks soon fer ya.

Here in central Texas we not only have the heat, 100+ every day for weeks but I haven't seen a drop of rain since June.  Everything is brown, grasshoppers are epidemic by the 10's of thousands stripping all my shrubs, asparagus, etc.  Am killing them by the dozens in the greenhouse with a spray of permethrin.

I've got about 7 days before my rainwater tanks go dry and that's it for feeding my Aquafogger which is doing a pretty good job at cooling the greenhouse.

This was a very dense dark green Nellie Stevens burford holly.  They're all like this.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SnsGYsdQ/Holly.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnsGYsdQ)

This too shall pass.....
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 12:11:27 PM
Mark, rain? Haven't heard of it, seen it, don't remember what it is... But I must say we are blessed not to have the grasshoppers roving the land.  I hate those things with an unreasonable passion.  We were doing the 100F+ thing for months too, but it ratcheted up to more like 110F+ recently.  You are correct, it will pass in time.  I just hope the power stays on.  Gotta keep those wine coolers running.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Seanny on August 18, 2020, 12:13:30 PM
Shading that touches the leaves is bad news.
The leaves will burn due to hot shading.
Raise it a foot above.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 12:16:18 PM
Good point.  It's not an easy proposition. I'll try to see what I can do.  But then that wind causes trouble.  Shade cloth often causes more trouble than its worth with my half-a**ed application/effort.  Thanks.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: zephian on August 18, 2020, 12:29:05 PM
Mark, rain? Haven't heard of it, seen it, don't remember what it is... But I must say we are blessed not to have the grasshoppers roving the land.  I hate those things with an unreasonable passion.  We were doing the 100F+ thing for months too, but it ratcheted up to more like 110F+ recently.  You are correct, it will pass in time.  I just hope the power stays on.  Gotta keep those wine coolers running.
Did the thunderstorms pass you by? We had some thunder and lightning yesterday that took out power from 8-almost 7pm. It was 105... Not enough rain to do anything but hey, it's rain!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Oh yes they did.  It hit at around 1am "night" before last.  Went on for a couple hours.  Pretty intense stuff for our region.  I didn't get wind of any rain.  Maybe it happened some places.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 18, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround (https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on August 18, 2020, 01:31:25 PM
The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 18, 2020, 01:40:09 PM
The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

Glad it's working out for you.  Stay cool.......

Supposed to be a really good pesticide too.  We have a problem with the gray leaf footed bug.  "They say" 3 sprays on maters will control the adults. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: jtnguyen333 on August 18, 2020, 01:49:16 PM
The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

What about using surround spray on dragon fruit plants?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: containerman on August 18, 2020, 02:02:23 PM
Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround (https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround)

I'm not seeing anywhere on the site where I can purchase the product. Do you have a link ?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 18, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
Google is your friend as is a local ag supplier.

Will work on any plant material.  May need to add a non ionic surfactant to stick to cereus.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on August 18, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
The surround does work really well.  I put in a bunch of new avocado seedlings out on a hillside in full sun in June. They are out there getting roasted but they are flushing and no damage.  I sprayed them with Surround 3X already since June.  Before each heat wave spray the new leaves, then they flush new leaves and before the next heat wave spray again, repeat..   they look perfect and growing nicely from very small 1.2gal pots straight into full exposure. 

2 cups per gallon seems to be a nice mix.  Then a quick dusting, it takes very little effort and works like a champ.

What about using surround spray on dragon fruit plants?

My dragonfruit plants seem fine in full sun.  A few weak types get a little yellowing but most are no problem.  I would say they just need more water if you have burning on them. I'm sure it couldn't hurt to use it though if you have trellises with a big exposure on top from mid day sun going straight down. 
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 05:22:53 PM
Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround (https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround)

Mark, I purchased like $100 or more of surround and gave it a try last year.  Frankly, it took the joy of growing out of the process for me.  What I mean is that irritating white dust covering all the foliage turned my trees into something out of post-fallout Cormac McCarthy novel.  Even touching the stuff was annoying.  So, I've taken to methodically "painting" the stuff on the exposed tree branches and trunks and leaving the foliage alone.  What's the point in growing anything if I take no joy out of being among the plants.  At least, that's where I've landed for the time-being.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on August 18, 2020, 05:26:27 PM
Oh, also, if you're not in an agricultural type of situation, like where your neighbors have to see the trees, then the surround kind of dusts around the area being exposed.  A lot of my trees have mulch around their ground area, and the surround dusted the mulch in an unsightly way as well.  If you're farming a hillside or acre somewhere that no one gets to see, it's totally fine.  I think the product is very innovative and works well (and as advertised), it's just messy.  It also holds to the tree even after light to medium (and successive) rain.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: behlgarden on August 18, 2020, 06:24:56 PM
Excellent job, pots are working as designed. 

I hand water, FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.  Don't want to chance any dry channels with drip.

I need to take some pix.  Greenhouse has become a jungle and moving around is getting hard to do.  I too lost about 80-90% of my avocado fruit sets but most on fairly new grafted trees that are 6-10' tall.

In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH/Orange-Sherbet-Branch-June9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH)

you got to me kidding me, all in all I have 20 mangoes in my 6-7 bushes. dang!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 20, 2020, 08:28:33 AM
Screw the make work.  Spray leaves and all.

https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround (https://www.novasource.com/en/products/surround)

Mark, I purchased like $100 or more of surround and gave it a try last year.  Frankly, it took the joy of growing out of the process for me.  What I mean is that irritating white dust covering all the foliage turned my trees into something out of post-fallout Cormac McCarthy novel.  Even touching the stuff was annoying.  So, I've taken to methodically "painting" the stuff on the exposed tree branches and trunks and leaving the foliage alone.  What's the point in growing anything if I take no joy out of being among the plants.  At least, that's where I've landed for the time-being.

What's the joy of watching your plants suffer from heat exhaustion?   ;D  I find Surround easy peasy....paints a Paint In The Ass aka PITA.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 20, 2020, 08:32:43 AM
Excellent job, pots are working as designed. 

I hand water, FLOOD the "pots" which takes about 30 minutes.  Don't want to chance any dry channels with drip.

I need to take some pix.  Greenhouse has become a jungle and moving around is getting hard to do.  I too lost about 80-90% of my avocado fruit sets but most on fairly new grafted trees that are 6-10' tall.

In haste while pruning I took off a newly grafted Orange Sherbet branch holding 17 nice fruit.  Oh well.  I mailed a friend some scions yesterday.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH/Orange-Sherbet-Branch-June9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JG8YB2SH)

you got to me kidding me, all in all I have 20 mangoes in my 6-7 bushes. dang!

I wish. Was another one of those aw shit moments but it's pushed some gorgeous multiple branches of OS so all is good.  I am tipping them between alternate branches (not above where multiple branches are attached at the exact same point).  I had 3 heavy branches attached at the same point with 2 dropping.

That was a newly grafted cocktail tree too. It's holding some huge Pineapple Pleasure just now turning color.  Also Juicy Peach.

BTW, I got Pierce scions from a while back and have a Pierce fruit.  Does it self pollinate?  It was a surprise when I found it while CAREFULLY  pruning that cocktail cherimoya of Behl, Pierce, Campos, and Sabor.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on November 23, 2020, 05:19:22 PM
I'm just starting to get fruit drop on a couple of the side-yard project Avocado trees.  I wanted to share it.  First we have the Stewart that ended up with three large fruit to mature (and one runt).  Two fruit dropped yesterday, 11/22/20, and then the 3rd today a day later.  I've cut into one of the fruit and it had this woody inner-layer that was inedible and kind of surrounded the flesh like an interstitial, half-developed shell or inner-peel/skin.  Bummer.  I'm hoping the others aren't the same.  Anyone know why this fruit came out this way and what it could mean; what I can do to fight it next year?  I ended up squeezing out maybe 40% of the avocado using finger and thumbs to make some OK guac.  The taste was ok -- and better I think than the Mexicola from my more mature trees that dropped a couple months back.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0rJm3fFj/Stewart-00-20201122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rJm3fFj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TpVb2PRX/Stewart-01-20201122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpVb2PRX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRSLyThN/Stewart-02-20201122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRSLyThN)
(https://i.postimg.cc/75q25y6J/Stewart-03-20201122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75q25y6J)

These three avocados dropped today, 11/23/20, and are from a Sir Prize tree.  The tree has just 2 more fruit on it, which I expect will drop any time now.  The remaining trees include a fairly well loaded Lamb-Hass with a lot of small-ish fruit, a Holiday with a singular Large fruit, and then the Pinkerton that is loaded with over 25 medium size, elongated fruit.  No idea when these three remaining trees will start to drop fruit, but all still seem hard and green in color.  Any input/insight will be appreciated, as these trees are now fruiting and harvesting for the first time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8FjsvkVc/Sir-Prize-00-20201123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FjsvkVc)

I hope all of you are seeing great harvests this season.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on November 23, 2020, 05:23:20 PM
Oh, I forgot to state it... in the first couple picks of Stewart, they are the ones on the South of the photo.  There are also three LARGE store bought Hass? for comparison.  Sorry for the lack of clarity with that first post.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Lovetoplant on December 01, 2020, 05:33:18 PM
That "rootball" looks stellar.  It begs the question, why even grow the container.  I mean, what would be the downside of leaving the container as is?  I realize a larger container would allow for an even more expansive root system, but if you were to leave the container at that original size, would it really pose an problem for the blood orange tree in the long run?

Is you are a purist regarding Dr. Whitcomb's approach, just because you are using the system doesn't mean you shouldn't expand 4" more from the old to the new.  Meaning the diameter of the expanded, new pot, is 8" wider.  When the roots terminate they branch behind that termination point approximately 4".   I recently went to a 100 gal. pot on a Reed avocado because it's become a big tree with very large ground exposed roots.  Here's a picture of the gap I made and then backfilled on the Reed recently.

Opened up, ready for additional panels.  Notice no spin out:

(https://s9.postimg.cc/gb5yyx5rv/Soil_Pot.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gb5yyx5rv/)

Gap created by added panels:

(https://s9.postimg.cc/d4bffe8i3/Soil_Pot_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/d4bffe8i3/)

Open this up and you'll see the white roots which were exposed when the sidewall collapsed a bit during my manhandling.  This is looking down with the pot about 1/2 backfilled.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/62dhsqmrf/Soil_Pot_3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/62dhsqmrf/)

Finished and mulched, 100 gal. bottomless pot, 10 panels.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/oupcwd163/Soil_Pot_4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/oupcwd163/)

My pots are bottomless as opposed to many of Whitcomb's customers who make up pallets of trees using a fork lift to move them off and plant.  He makes fabric circles which are designed to be placed on the bottom before processing which entrap the tree roots.  Given one season of growth they form a bottom which can be picked up without any soil loss.

My Meyer lemon is still in its original small pot.  I plan to leave it there mainly because I grafted it on Flying Dragon rootstock which dwarfs about 40%.  Tree is about 7 years old and still a runt, but bears really heavy.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/bdsedv18r/Meyer_Nov16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bdsedv18r/)

Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on December 01, 2020, 06:02:04 PM
I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 02, 2020, 09:07:10 AM
I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

You have mail.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 02, 2020, 09:13:31 AM
Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks

Not picky.  Whatever I have stockpiled at the time - peat moss, compost, vermiculite or perlite, builder's sand, blood meal, pine bark fines.

(https://i.postimg.cc/vxHtDJH5/Vermiculite.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxHtDJH5)

Perhaps it's your method?  Are you looking for and correcting any root issues such as root spin out, root girdling, J rooting?  I also use Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor Plus or Polyon prills.  PITA when it ends up on the kitchen floor, under the dishwasher......

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcS7vVd7/Osmocote-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcS7vVd7)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Lovetoplant on December 02, 2020, 07:47:57 PM
Mark, what soil mixes do you add on to the gap when you expand the RB panels?  If it your own soil mixes, would you mind sharing the components?

I am afraid to repot all my fruit trees including avocado trees, afraid that they will die after repotted.  These happened before several times.  Thanks

Not picky.  Whatever I have stockpiled at the time - peat moss, compost, vermiculite or perlite, builder's sand, blood meal, pine bark fines.

(https://i.postimg.cc/vxHtDJH5/Vermiculite.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxHtDJH5)

Perhaps it's your method?  Are you looking for and correcting any root issues such as root spin out, root girdling, J rooting?  I also use Osmocote Indoor/Outdoor Plus or Polyon prills.  PITA when it ends up on the kitchen floor, under the dishwasher......

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcS7vVd7/Osmocote-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcS7vVd7)

Your spilled osmocote sure looks like frass lol.

No I have all my plants in black plastic pots.  All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

I have been thinking of using root pruning method by painting the inside pots with copper hydroxide on my next up potting.  Some members are successful this mothod.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 03, 2020, 11:05:01 AM
All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

That's what I thought.  Pop the rootball out and using a very sharp knife start top to bottom, 4X around cutting the roots about 1/2" deep.  Make sure to cut the bottom spin out. 

Been using root pruning systems for 30 years - Griffin's Spin-Out, Rootmaker. Or you can make your own copper hydroxide paint, recipe posted here.

I have a long thread on my bottomless RootBuilder pots aka raised beds in a large greenhouse.   http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0)
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Lovetoplant on December 04, 2020, 09:50:51 PM
All roots were encircled when I repotted them to bigger pots.  Some died some survived , but ones that survived took few months to perk up. 

That's what I thought.  Pop the rootball out and using a very sharp knife start top to bottom, 4X around cutting the roots about 1/2" deep.  Make sure to cut the bottom spin out. 

Been using root pruning systems for 30 years - Griffin's Spin-Out, Rootmaker. Or you can make your own copper hydroxide paint, recipe posted here.

I have a long thread on my bottomless RootBuilder pots aka raised beds in a large greenhouse.   http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0)

Thank you!  Will this method of root trimming apply to avocado & mango trees too?
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on December 04, 2020, 10:39:27 PM
The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

Hi Brad, just seeing this now.  So it sounds like in a way these fruit which set less than a year ago should have been hanging much longer.  Unless I'm totally losing track of time, I think the trees flowered and set fruit back earlier this year in the Spring.  Now they dropping.  Well, they are very tasty anyway, but that wood crap inside is no fun to spit out.  I need to double check my blog entries here to make sure I didn't just miss 12 months.  I would certainly love to hear if any of your pals can fix what the condition is there.  The trees seem quite healthy and happy through the Summer/Fall.  I hope that stays true through Winter.  The Lamb-HASS, Holiday, and Pinkerton all have yet to show any color and are rock solid with no fruit drop, yet.

Thanks!
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on December 04, 2020, 10:41:43 PM
Yeah, just double-checked my sanity and all this fruit did set earlier this year in the late-April early May timeframe.  So I guess that's record pace to get from fruit set to ripe and dropping -- for an Avocado.  There has to be a price to pay for that expediency.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on December 04, 2020, 10:44:53 PM
I dont know why the stewarts would turn that way.  May be from extreme temperatures or some other environmental factor.  If the tree seems in good h!ealth otherwise its probably not a nutritional issue.  The guy greg alder might have ideas, he knows a lot about avocados.  Maybe he will read this or if I talk to him soon Ill tell him read your post. 

The sir prize are ready in march and april here (12 months after flower) and lamb is ready July-Novemwber here (15+ months after flower)

You have mail.
That mail was for Brad, right Mark?  I have no mail.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 05, 2020, 06:51:07 AM
Thank you!  Will this method of root trimming apply to avocado & mango trees too?

Yes, but I'm pretty gentle when it comes to avocado roots.
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 05, 2020, 06:53:46 AM
That mail was for Brad, right Mark?  I have no mail.

Yeppers
Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: spaugh on December 05, 2020, 10:42:31 AM
Stewart is an early season fruit that comes in fall of the same year 6-8 months later, sir prize takes about 10-12 months, pinkerton takes 12 months, holiday takes 14+ and lamb takes 14+ months.  Lamb will hang into November here and over lap with stewarts that are 1 year younger. 

Title: Re: RootMaker RootBuilder 2 / II Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project
Post by: z_willus_d on December 05, 2020, 01:30:53 PM
Good summary Brad.  That all tracks with what I'm getting here, except the Sir Prize seems to be dropping the 7-8 month timeframe rather than the 10-12 -- last one (of five) fell yesterday.  I'll keep notes on the remaining trees: LH, Holiday, and Pinkerton.  I'm most excited about the Pinkerton, 2nd most the Lamb-Hass.  Its so interesting to see the difference in behavior between these five young tress.

So far, I have to say this Expandable Container for Side-Yard Avocado Project has been a success.  Plenty of bumps along the way, but it's unequivocally been successful.  Expert advice from folks like you and Mark has certainly been a great help.

Thanks, Naysen