The Tropical Fruit Forum
Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: JustJoshinya on January 21, 2016, 02:35:27 AM
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Shiranui mandarin is now available through the CCPP it is on early release and a maximum of 12 buds can be purchased, the budwood cut date is January 31 so get your orders in now!!! I got mine ordered :)
-Josh
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What's the minimum order of buds? And what rootstock are you planning to use?
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For members who might not know. Shiranui is an other name for the common name Dekopon a much sought after variety. - Millet
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Yes thank you Millet, the shiranui is an unregistered/untrademarked form of the dekopon. It has just became available through the Citrus Clonal Protection Program and the minimum order of buds is 6 and the max is 12 it is on early release. I am planning on using some Sour orange rootstock to graft it onto ;)
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What's the minimum order of buds? And what rootstock are you planning to use?
I would recommend Swingle in the Bahamas. Grafted trees have been available in Florida for about a year now, give or take.
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Newbie question here. Bud wood from CCPP, but where do you get rootstock? Are you air layering branches of Swingle?
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Thank you Josh. I will order some for myself and friends.
All the ones I've purchased have been terrible. They were either very sour or sour and left out for too long. Hopefully fresh grown fruits will live up to its hype.
I guess you guys are planning to "stick" graft rather than budding?
Just get any local citrus and use it as rootstock.
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Thank you Josh. I will order some for myself and friends.
All the ones I've purchased have been terrible. They were either very sour or sour and left out for too long. Hopefully fresh grown fruits will live up to its hype.
I guess you guys are planning to "stick" graft rather than budding?
Just get any local citrus and use it as rootstock.
I buy Florida grown fruit and the Sumos from whole foods and they have been excellent.
For South Florida (and Bahamas being of similar climate ) I would be more selective of the rootstock being used.
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Bought these at local Whole Foods last week. They are a minimum of 1.5 pounds each.
(http://s15.postimg.cc/h3ifi9i2v/20160112_232930.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/h3ifi9i2v/)
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Bought these at local Whole Foods last week. They are a minimum of 1.5 pounds each.
(http://s15.postimg.cc/h3ifi9i2v/20160112_232930.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/h3ifi9i2v/)
Florida grown?
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Bought these at local Whole Foods last week. They are a minimum of 1.5 pounds each.
(http://s15.postimg.cc/h3ifi9i2v/20160112_232930.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/h3ifi9i2v/)
Florida grown?
Yes, Florida grown.
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You guys are just getting them over there? they have been available in FL for years and aren't even a specialist nursery tree here. Found a big one at HD three years ago and have picked up some smaller ones since. Supposedly they are more cold hardy than other varieties. I haven't had any issues with the minor frosts I have had here in Central Florida. Fruits are very large, relatively easy to peel but fairly seedy. They have a good sweet taste especially if you leave them on the tree for awhile during colder weather. I pull mine in March.
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You guys are just getting them over there? they have been available in FL for years and aren't even a specialist nursery tree here. Found a big one at HD three years ago and have picked up some smaller ones since. Supposedly they are more cold hardy than other varieties. I haven't had any issues with the minor frosts I have had here in Central Florida. Fruits are very large, relatively easy to peel but fairly seedy. They have a good sweet taste especially if you leave them on the tree for awhile during colder weather. I pull mine in March.
Something is off with your description. I have eaten many many pouds of Florida and California grown Shiranuhi and have actually never found one seed.
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Rob is correct. Dekopon (aka Shiranui aka Sumo) have very very few to no seeds. It is rare to find a seed in the fruit. - Millet
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Maybe he's thinking of another Japanese sounding citrus like the satsuma. That one's been available for decades.
Sumo was pretty recent, like within the last decade. I remember hearing about it when the people that imported it had the only trees and I've only been into growing fruits for less than a decade.
They had CCPP secretly legally clean the import of diseases and that took 5 years before they could get their hands on it. Now CCPP is releasing it after some period of time of keeping it under wraps. The conditions are publicly available on the CCPP website.
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I bought and ate about 40+ sumos last season and out of all those sumos i only found 1 seed, it is still growing, slowly but still growing. but now i have ordered some through the CCPP and will graft it onto some sour orange seedlings.
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been wanting budwood of this but it's so hard to get any citrus wood shipped in here with all the restrictions :-\
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fyliu: That's a surprise that your fruit was so sour. The first year Sumos came out(2011 or so), when they were only available in CA, one of the local Asian chains imported them to sell here on the East Coast, and they were super sweet. The only drawback being that the centers, where it's a bit hollow, started to rot on the older fruit. They may be imported from Florida now, but what you ate should've been good too. Weird.
My tree came as a nice healthy sapling from Harris in Florida. I was very pleased. :)
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You guys are just getting them over there? they have been available in FL for years and aren't even a specialist nursery tree here. Found a big one at HD three years ago and have picked up some smaller ones since. Supposedly they are more cold hardy than other varieties. I haven't had any issues with the minor frosts I have had here in Central Florida. Fruits are very large, relatively easy to peel but fairly seedy. They have a good sweet taste especially if you leave them on the tree for awhile during colder weather. I pull mine in March.
Something is off with your description. I have eaten many many pouds of Florida and California grown Shiranuhi and have actually never found one seed.
I remember an old thread (either on the citrus forumup site or gardenweb) where it was discussed that there were two sub-types of Shiranui, one with very few seeds on one that was fairly seedy. It might be worth a search.
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You guys are just getting them over there? they have been available in FL for years and aren't even a specialist nursery tree here. Found a big one at HD three years ago and have picked up some smaller ones since. Supposedly they are more cold hardy than other varieties. I haven't had any issues with the minor frosts I have had here in Central Florida. Fruits are very large, relatively easy to peel but fairly seedy. They have a good sweet taste especially if you leave them on the tree for awhile during colder weather. I pull mine in March.
Something is off with your description. I have eaten many many pouds of Florida and California grown Shiranuhi and have actually never found one seed.
I remember an old thread (either on the citrus forumup site or gardenweb) where it was discussed that there were two sub-types of Shiranui, one with very few seeds on one that was fairly seedy. It might be worth a search.
Shiranui is another name for Dekopon. Never heard of any true "sub-species" from any Florida grower. If it was something that came from Harris it wouldn't surprise me. Again, as I have stated, they are tge Tradewinds & TT of the citrus world. Highly not recommended in my book...
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Meh I have had great dealings with Harris and would gladly deal with them again, they give me the hook up on stuff not on their site when I show up and it does really well in the ground. On the Shiranui I have a fruit on one of my smaller ones, Ill try and remember to post if it has seeds. I am not mixing up Satsuma with Shiranui. It was labeled as shiranui from whoever HDs source is. Seeing as strict as FL is on citrus, I doubt it was mislabeled. My smaller two are from a different nursery.
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Meh I have had great dealings with Harris and would gladly deal with them again, they give me the hook up on stuff not on their site when I show up and it does really well in the ground. On the Shiranui I have a fruit on one of my smaller ones, Ill try and remember to post if it has seeds. I am not mixing up Satsuma with Shiranui. It was labeled as shiranui from whoever HDs source is. Seeing as strict as FL is on citrus, I doubt it was mislabeled. My smaller two are from a different nursery.
Do you have a picture of the fruit that had a lot of seeds? Just seems really odd.
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My Shiranui trees' fruit from Harris do not have seeds. I am very happy ordering from them.
Cory
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Nope that was in years past. I only have one small tree with a fruit on it after deer ravaged my bigger tree enough to where it has no fruit on it this time around when I normally would be pulling them off.
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I talked to the Texas budwood bureau today and they are getting me
some shiranui budwood and Akcay Sekeri sweet orange. Yea!
http://www.fruitmentor.com/akcay-sekeri-sweet-orange (http://www.fruitmentor.com/akcay-sekeri-sweet-orange)
I have tasted xuegan sweet orange from China, available from Texas budwood bureau. My tree had 3 very good small fruit, very sweet and a rich tasting with no seeds. John Panzarella's tree had larger fruit that weren't so rich tasting. It is a winner IMHO.
I also got to taste 15-150 or lee x orlando this year. It is a real winner as well. Fruit are satsuma sized or slightly larger with a distinctive shape. Flavor was sweet and rich. A friend in Lumberton, TX has about 25 trees in his yard that I propagated. When I retired in 2010 I gave Bob a bunch of trees that had lost labels. He didn't mind as they all were very good selections. His trees are 6+ feet tall now and he had dozens of lee x orlando fruit. It is also supposed to be as cold hardy as satsuma. It is one of those 3/4 grapefruit and 1/4 mandarin hybrids, all of which are great tasting. I also have tasted lee x nova which is a seedless mandarin like fruit as well. Haven't yet tasted lee x robinson but have a tree in a pot. http://www.fruitmentor.com/cat (http://www.fruitmentor.com/cat)…/citrus/varieties/usda-15-150
Lee is clementine x orlando and orlando is duncan x dancy
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My experience with harris was very good. The shipping was top notch, and the Shiranui was large for what I paid. I'd say 3 ft.
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I see you used some links to Dan Willey's web page Fruitmentor. Last week Dan was giving away 60 count boxes of various citrus varieties for another free tasting. I missed out as they were all gone by the time I responded. Dan attended the Citrus Day event at UCR where the CCPP donated to him enough fruit to make up 60 boxes . Phil, it was also on his site where I also seen the good comments about the Akcay Seleri citrus, sound like a real winner. - Millet
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I see you used some links to Dan Willey's web page Fruitmentor. Last week Dan was giving away 60 count boxes of various citrus varieties for another free tasting. I missed out as they were all gone by the time I responded. Dan attended the Citrus Day event at UCR where the CCPP donated to him enough fruit to make up 60 boxes . Phil, it was also on his site where I also seen the good comments about the Akcay Seleri citrus, sound like a real winner. - Millet
I got my box from Dan today. Looking forward to sampling.
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You had to be fast to get a box. email arrived 11pm and
early the next morning all were gone. Oh well he couldn't
ship to Texas anyway.
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You had to be fast to get a box. email arrived 11pm and
early the next morning all were gone. Oh well he couldn't
ship to Texas anyway.
Yeah, I happen to have my phone nearby when the email came in. Responed and paid (for shipping) immediately.
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I see you used some links to Dan Willey's web page Fruitmentor. Last week Dan was giving away 60 count boxes of various citrus varieties for another free tasting. I missed out as they were all gone by the time I responded. Dan attended the Citrus Day event at UCR where the CCPP donated to him enough fruit to make up 60 boxes . Phil, it was also on his site where I also seen the good comments about the Akcay Seleri citrus, sound like a real winner. - Millet
I got my box from Dan today. Looking forward to sampling.
My screen left off the end of your sentence for some reason. It should read: 'Looking forward to sampling with all my closest forum friends' right? ;)
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been wanting budwood of this but it's so hard to get any citrus wood shipped in here with all the restrictions :-\
Does Arizona have a budwood program? If they do you can likely get what you want.
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been wanting budwood of this but it's so hard to get any citrus wood shipped in here with all the restrictions :-\
Does Arizona have a budwood program? If they do you can likely get what you want.
Not that I know of. Lots of restrictions here at the moment. The local rare fruit growers club aren't even allowed to exchange citrus scions in their events. The new, rare, sought after varieties aren't any where in town.
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I don't think any club allows citrus exchange in the states of FL, TX, AZ, CA. Basically all southern states suited to growing citrus.
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Just had this for lunch. It had 13 seeds. I bit into one and the other was really small. I've got another one at home.
(http://s15.postimg.cc/klpjxw6wn/Wichita_20160203_01050.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/klpjxw6wn/)
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Here is the one I bit into.
(http://s21.postimg.cc/gjpya4omr/Wichita_20160203_01052.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/gjpya4omr/)
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There is always the exception to the rule. - Millet
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I don't think any club allows citrus exchange in the states of FL, TX, AZ, CA. Basically all southern states suited to growing citrus.
No such restrictions in Texas. Texas just pretends to regulate citrus propagation.
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I sampled Sumo for the first time yesterday. purchased the fruit from "fresh Market" in Melbourne, Florida. Its a callifornia grown fruit. It was really good. Almost too sweet.
I planted a Harris shiranui last year. I'm hoping this fruit does well for us here in Florida. I read on the wiki page that the fruit is allowed to ripen off the tree for 20 days. Really?
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Central Floridave, yes after the Shranui (Dekopon) is picked the fruit ages for 20 days, but at what type of climatic conditions, humid, warm, cool, dark, light, moist or dry, I am not sure. Whatever it is, it does not cause fruit dehydration during the 20 day ageing period. I do know that for the fruit to reach it full sweetness, it has be be left hanging on the tree until approximately the end of February. - Millet
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Central Floridave, yes after the Shranui (Dekopon) is picked the fruit ages for 20 days, but at what type of climatic conditions, humid, warm, cool, dark, light, moist or dry, I am not sure. Whatever it is, it does not cause fruit dehydration during the 20 day ageing period. I do know that for the fruit to reach it full sweetness, it has be be left hanging on the tree until approximately the end of February. - Millet
Millet - the timing, as with any fruit, will vary from year to year based on climate. This year, the Florida Shiranui were in the market in early January and the California Sumos have been here since mid January. ..and they are damn good.
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Never aged a shiranui off the tree more than a couple days and only then for travel reasons. I usually leave mine on the tree until mid-march and bring them camping with me. I have them and some surprisingly sweet Centennial kumquats out on the kitchen table at camp and they are usually gone in the first couple days. The kumquats have been ripe on the tree now for a month or more, I guess the last winter burst of cold makes them sweeter.
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Thanks for the info. I'm hoping my tree, one day, produces! Its small now.
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Central Floridave about your small Shiranui tree, have you ever thought of enclosing the tree within a screen cage, to keep the Asian psyllids from infecting the tree with greening disease? - Millet
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No, haven't thought of doing that. Probably won't. Sounds like too much work and not very ornamental. I have a bunch of tangerines and other citrus that produce pretty good. No sign of greening for me so far (knock on wood). I'm on South Merritt island and am some what isolated and in a heavy wooded area. I'm hoping I'm isolated enough for it not to happen. But, if it does, I'll just plant again. I've lost citrus for a variety of reasons. If greening happens it happens.
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8)
(http://i.imgur.com/idhJVQt.jpg?1)
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Success! What is the citrus on the left?
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Galka, you did it! Let us know how the fruit taste. Remember as a citrus tree ages the better the fruit bcomes. Congratulations to you and your tree. - Millet
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Thank you Millet and Central Floridave. I will let it stay on the tree for a couple more weeks and then report the fruit taste. The orange on the left is a Blood orange.
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Thank you Millet and Central Floridave. I will let it stay on the tree for a couple more weeks and then report the fruit taste. The orange on the left is a Blood orange.
Is that a Blood orange off your tree? If so, please post a picture of the flesh when you cut it.
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Second the thanks to millet on clarification and great news for all those impatiently waiting for it !!! Happy Propagatiing. - Shiranui is Dekopon.... #notSumo
-krsnakumari
Yes thank you Millet, the shiranui is an unregistered/untrademarked form of the dekopon. It has just became available through the Citrus Clonal Protection Program and the minimum order of buds is 6 and the max is 12 it is on early release. I am planning on using some Sour orange rootstock to graft it onto ;)
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If I remember correctly, blood oranges don't seem to color up well in Florida? - Millet
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If I remember correctly, blood oranges don't seem to color up well in Florida? - Millet
Yes, that is correct. Galka is a little further north than the main citrus region so i was curious if that made a difference.
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Yes, this is from my tree. It's first fruiting time and sorry no pics on this one. I had the fruits on the tree for too long (I think) till they fell off. There could be a few factors such: the tree was labeled Blood orange (who knows which one), the fruits got some fungus issues on the skin because of too much rain last year (?), and the skin started to darken after the last prolonged freeze (we got low temps for 5 or 6 hours). It looks ugly outside and it was yellow inside with some red coloring around each section.
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How did the skin darken, natural coloration or cold damage? It is common for Blood Oranges to have some deep reddish blush/coloration on the skin.
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No, it's not a cold damage, it's natural coloration. It changed the color after the cold from yellow to brownish red. The damage is the fungus that appeared on the skin when the fruit was still green. Can I prevent that in the future somehow? Is there any treatment for this? Never had it before.
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Galka, I doubt that the peel color is due to a fungus. As Bsbullie wrote, blood oranges commonly have reddish colored peels and pulp. This is because blood oranges produce a chemical called anthocyanins, a family of antioxidant pigments common to many flowers and fruits, but somewhat uncommon to citrus. What is required for anthocyanins to turn color is cold weather, usually during the night. If a blood orange is grown at continual warm temperatures the fruit will never turn red. Enjoy the fruit of your labor.- Millet
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Thank you Millet.
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For the people that started Shiranui from seeds:
(http://www.fruttama.it/forum/download/file.php?id=264)
Chance seedling of Decopon started 15 years ago, it tastes more like Buntan pomelo!
http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783 (http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783)
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Chance seedling of Decopon started 15 years ago, it tastes more like Buntan pomelo!
http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783 (http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783)
So it's pretty acidic then?
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For the people that started Shiranui from seeds:
(http://www.fruttama.it/forum/download/file.php?id=264)
Chance seedling of Decopon started 15 years ago, it tastes more like Buntan pomelo!
http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783 (http://www.fruttama.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=783)
As I understand from original page, he thinks, that it is seeds from open pollinated fruit, may be dekopon pollinated with pomelo or so.
On another hand here is a picture from asian plantation, where some mutations occured at dekopon trees, it looks like dekopon is unstable cross.
(https://s14.postimg.cc/ym1yc06st/shiranui_with_mutant.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ym1yc06st/)
The description on original Asian facebook page is "shiranui with mutant"
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Shiranui is now being dispersed to hobbyists through the CCPP though they have put a restriction of 1 budstick per order regardless of whether you ordered 6 or 12 scions, my budwood cut date is tomorrow, and i will receive my budwood on wednesday morning as long as no delays happen.
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That's great! I put in an order for budwood as well, but should be at a later date, maybe next few months? My friend who ordered in December got contacted about expecting it.
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Yea I ordered mine on December 2015 so you should be getting yours soon, how are your grafting skills fylui??
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I have good luck with budding and grafting citrus this year. It helps a lot if the rootstock is healthy when you graft.
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The photos of cross section shiranui that Ilya11 show look like grapefruit rind/albedo. It is mandarin citrus reticulata so the white rind part should be threadlike, no? This one just looks dense and thick like grapefruit to me. Is it easy to peel?
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It seems it can be peeled rather easily:
(http://www.fruttama.it/forum/download/file.php?id=285&sid=e91618578bd03b9720fe0212e5b7e88f)
Google translation of the Italian discussion:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fruttama.it%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D783&sandbox=1 (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fruttama.it%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D783&sandbox=1)
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Interesting. Thanks for the pic and the link, Ilya11.
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Got my shiranui bud wood this morning so went to a few home improvement stores and a nursery looking for some good rootstock and man were the Pickings slim tons of Meyers and Mexican likes but looked like their own roots I ended up buying a 5' trovita orange on C-35 rootstock the grafting went good the bark was slipping so I decided to T bud graft the c35 with 3 buds I was hoping to get a much smaller tree but it had the nicest straightest trunk so I got it.
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It seems it can be peeled rather easily:
(http://www.fruttama.it/forum/download/file.php?id=285&sid=e91618578bd03b9720fe0212e5b7e88f)
Google translation of the Italian discussion:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fruttama.it%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D783&sandbox=1 (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fruttama.it%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D783&sandbox=1)
the sumo mandarins we get at the stores here look nothing like that inside. much less of that white skin. I'll take a pic when I get the chance.
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Got my shiranui bud wood this morning so went to a few home improvement stores and a nursery looking for some good rootstock and man were the Pickings slim tons of Meyers and Mexican likes but looked like their own roots I ended up buying a 5' trovita orange on C-35 rootstock the grafting went good the bark was slipping so I decided to T bud graft the c35 with 3 buds I was hoping to get a much smaller tree but it had the nicest straightest trunk so I got it.
Did you initially order 6 or 12 buds?
I got my "6 buds" too. There's only 5 actual buds on the stick but it should be enough.
I ordered only last month after hearing people were being contacted about the availability this month, so I should be at the end of the waiting list. This means all the orders were sent out already.
Everybody, go order yours at www.ccpp.ucr.edu (http://www.ccpp.ucr.edu) and you might receive them next month.
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Finally received 6 buds (ordered 12) of Shiranui from UCR last week, it's been a long wait. T-budded them onto C-35 seedlings, for my first grafting attempt it seemed to go fine. Now I just have to wait and hope.
If those grafts end up sticking I plan to get some other budwood of varieties I can't find at nurseries.
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Where can one get C-35?
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VLAD, rootstock seeds, or live seedling plants are available, but unfortunately no one that I know of sells either in small lots. You can purchase C-35 seed from a company called Lyn Citrus Seed but they have a minimum of 1-quart (4,000 seeds), and you can purchase live C-35 seedlings trees from Tree Source Nursery minimum 1,000 plants.
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Anyone from Southern California would like to update on their shiranui mandarin? Pease post your picture and share with us please? I am new to this website but I will post my grafted shiranui soon.
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Shiranui is now being dispersed to hobbyists through the CCPP though they have put a restriction of 1 budstick per order regardless of whether you ordered 6 or 12 scions, my budwood cut date is tomorrow, and i will receive my budwood on wednesday morning as long as no delays happen.
I believe California residents are being given preference. Still can't get budwood in Texas from CCPP.
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Anyone from Southern California would like to update on their shiranui mandarin? Pease post your picture and share with us please? I am new to this website but I will post my grafted shiranui soon.
These are the 4 grafts I made with the 5 buds I received. 2 T-buds, 2 other grafts, probably cleft.
(https://s3.postimg.cc/apqmczdz3/IMG_0761.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/apqmczdz3/)
(https://s3.postimg.cc/6kfpr2g73/IMG_0762.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6kfpr2g73/)
(https://s3.postimg.cc/6hvu48cjj/IMG_0764.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6hvu48cjj/)
(https://s3.postimg.cc/r3alw4u4f/IMG_0766.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/r3alw4u4f/)
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You did great on cleft grafted! Here are my success on t-bud... I grafted end of march, April and June
(https://s24.postimg.cc/6az3iro9t/IMG_8724.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6az3iro9t/)
(https://s24.postimg.cc/phcaly4rl/IMG_8753.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/phcaly4rl/)
(https://s24.postimg.cc/p5uu96obl/IMG_8799.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/p5uu96obl/)
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Your grafts really took off. You should have fruit in a couple years.
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I have tasted xuegan sweet orange from China, available from Texas budwood bureau. My tree had 3 very good small fruit, very sweet and a rich tasting with no seeds. John Panzarella's tree had larger fruit that weren't so rich tasting. It is a winner IMHO.
Hi Mrtexas, please update us on the Xuegan orange from your tree. Has it gotten better? Size, taste and seediness compared to other sweet oranges?