Author Topic: Grafting pineapple guava (Read 20462 times)

Pancrazio · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2016, 07:30:09 AM »

I don't know if this method is used by people but i have noticed that's it pretty reliable; so far any t bud graft that showed a regular behavior regarding the petiole (with it falling in few days), has later proven successful.
This is due the fact that petiole abscission is an active process, so the bud can absciss its petiole only if it's still living, and if it's still living after few days, the graft has taken.
The T-bud in the picture had its petiole falling in a week. According Bitters, in his manuscript on citrus grafting, the callus union happen in about 5 days after the graft, so apparently it checks out. About a week has passed since it falling so xilem should be about to be formed between the bud and the rootstock.
In few days i will cut the part above the graft and we are going to see.

I'm unsure if this could work on cleft graft, however. They usually are bigger, and keep more moisture inside them, so i guess they could have the energy to absciss the petioles even if they haven't taken.

Pancrazio · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2016, 07:55:39 PM »

I think i'm out from this experiment. All my grafts appear to be dead.
To be honest, I think i did a good job in matching the grafts (you can see it from pics) but something must have been off. Maybe they were already rotting when i received them? I don't know. However they all presented themselves this way:

Front (pen for scale):

Back:

I'm so bummed! I was really hoping to get this variety. And the guy sending me the scions have been so kind too! Well, i guess i've got to wait.

Solko · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:25:59 AM »

What a bummer that it didn't work. I really think it was the quality of the scion wood that made these grafts fail. Was it a special variety?

Here the plants are finally starting to come out of dormancy. And some of my grafts are pushing through the Parafilm. It is still too early to say wether they have taken, but it is looking a lot better than the summer grafting experiments I did last summer

I see two of my grafts getting black petioles inside the parafilm, but no growth on their new buds yet, and they have only started to blacken about three weeks after I grafted them - don't know if that is a good sign. But they are cleft grafts, as you said, and not T-buds.

If my grafts take, don't hesitate to contact me for scion wood next year, Pancrazio. In the mean time I will post follow ups and a good overview of how many grafts and of what kind took this year.

Here are the ones that seem to be pushing new buds:

Pancrazio · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2016, 08:29:13 PM »

Ah, Solko, but you have done a marvellous work there! I think you have settled the dispute, definitively feijoa are to graft when they have swelling buds, somehow like mangoes.
While it's too early to be sure that all of them have taken, i'm going to assume that at least some of them did.

I'll be interested to follow your results.

The variety i did use was nazemetz, it was cool because fruits supposedly don't show any browning when cut. Dunno if i'll have a chance again with this one... apollo and unique however are on my wish list and i think i'll buy them from the site you show me pretty soon!

Solko · « **Reply #29 on:** May 13, 2016, 02:43:17 AM »

Ha ha, you are too kind. But I am also convinced that grafting Feijoa in spring is the way to go.

The ones that are showing some growth now are from the first batch of budwood that didn't have swollen buds on them yet. The plants I grafted them to were showing signs of buds swelling though. So I would say it was more similar to grafting apple than to mango.

I hope you'll be able to get Nazemetz next year and that you will be able to give good instructions on how to collect scion wood then.

I will soon follow up with more pictures and the details about types of grafts and budwood that take.

Luisport · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2016, 06:31:59 AM »

One of my feijoa trees open the first flowers yesterday...

Solko · « **Reply #31 on:** May 13, 2016, 12:55:23 PM »

Ha ha, yes rub it in...

We had snow until two weeks ago, we were still skiing while you were getting ready to take a dip in the pool

My climate must be 6 to 8 weeks behind Portugal this year. Really, on my Feijoa's new green buds have just started to form last week. My Pitanga's and C. Xanthocarpa are also leafing out again just this week...

Solko · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2016, 06:45:26 AM »

Ok, today I discovered the first failures as well among my grafts.

and

I did over 40 grafts this year in three separate rounds, two weeks apart, on six different rootstock plants, one in the ground and 5 in pots. The budwood was taken at the same time of grafting, apart from one batch of budwood I took in the winter from the Netherlands a couple of weeks earlier and kept in the fridge without leaves or buds on it, the same as you would keep budwood from apples.
That budwood seems to have taken, so I would dare to say that it is possible to take Feijoa budwood in winter and store it in the fridge until the rootstock wakes up out of dormancy.

For the coming overview I will make a distinction between budwood that was taken before it had developed buds on it, against budwood that already had swelling buds.

Another distinction that I will make for the budwood, is wether it was green or woody at the graft union. Here is a picture of a typical branch of Feijoa:
you can see the top part that is green and the bottom part that is woody on a one year old branch. I have used both parts for grafting, and I will indicate wether the scion was 'green' or 'woody' at the point of the graft union.

So far I only have discovered two dead grafts, both of small size and green wood at the graft union. They were also both on the same rootstock plant.

I will post more follow ups in the coming weeks.

Pancrazio · « **Reply #33 on:** May 15, 2016, 07:44:45 PM »

Thank you for your update Solko.
I'm especially interested in the possibility to save some wood in fridge. Evidently, Feijoas aren't really much demanding when it comes to scions survivability.

Solko · « **Reply #34 on:** May 26, 2016, 04:39:05 AM »

Here is a little update. Most grafts seem to have taken, no matter the size of the budwood or the type of graft used. But a lot of them seem to remain dormant. Green, alive, but no growth.

Here is the score so far, more or less one month after grafting 45 scions:

15 pushing new buds through the Parafilm
3 dead
27 still green but show no sign of growth

We have had (or are having) a horribly cold and wet spring and the rootstock plants are barely pushing out new buds of their own. Two of them are in a sunny spot and they begin to show some growth, the grafts on these seem to have taken.

Among the 45 there are three scions that were stored in a hot car for five days and then in the fridge for three weeks after that. These ones seem to have taken well. So I think you can send and store dormant Feijoa wood in the fridge without a problem. These scions were larger and woody, like pencil-sized apple scions.

This is the smallest piece of budwood I used, it had only two nodes, one at the top and one in the cleft:

And this is one of the scions that have been stored in the fridge:

A side veneer graft that already pushes buds:

I am already very happy with these preliminary results. It seems spring grafting is the way to go for Feijoa

For me at least it works way better then taking cuttings.

Bush2Beach · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2016, 11:28:06 AM »

Root layering clones and grafting Feijoa are both high percentage ways to propagate with root layering being pretty automatic, lay a low lying branch in the dirt and hold it down in the dirt any which way and you'll have a clone in spring.

fyliu · « **Reply #36 on:** May 26, 2016, 01:29:38 PM »

Wow, congratulations on your grafts. It's good to know that the thinner scions also work. It'll be useful for people who want to try grafting it. I think the grafts are good unless they shrink.

Pancrazio · « **Reply #37 on:** May 26, 2016, 08:15:35 PM »

Congratulations from me too. All in all, i think your work has been a great success.
Probably we could have foretold it, but we now know it: feijoas do behave way better when they are actively pushing (and are about to push). Sorta like mangoes and citrus.
I guess cleft graft is the way to go, too!

Quote from: Solko on May 26, 2016, 04:39:05 AM

We have had (or are having) a horribly cold and wet spring and the rootstock plants are barely pushing out new buds of their own. Two of them are in a sunny spot and they begin to show some growth, the grafts on these seem to have taken.

WROST. MAY. EVER. I'm hoping to get some warmer nights to uncover my mango, but climate doesn't look like is willing to give that to me anytime soon. I hoped to uncover my plant tomorrow, but they have predicted a new cold front on Monday. $:-\$

Solko · « **Reply #38 on:** May 27, 2016, 07:09:06 AM »

Thank you, Pancrazio and Fyliu,

This was a fun experiment to do. I think, as you say, that we can think of it as of grafting citrus or avocado, scions can be stored in the fridge, but at the time of grafting the rootstock needs to be actively flushing, or about to do some active pushing, which is probably only in spring for Feijoa.

Because of the small size of some of my scions, I grafted a lot of them with one bud inside the cleft. That seemed to have been a good idea. Because even if some other buds above these started to grow, the buds that are the closest to the actual cut seem to push with the largest vigor. (see the 1st, 2nd and 4th picture in my last post)
It seems the wood starts to dry out or loose sapflow the moment it is grafted. And since it has only limited time to heal, the closer the first bud is to the graft, the better the chances of a take.

Quote from: Bush2Beach on May 26, 2016, 11:28:06 AM

Root layering clones and grafting Feijoa are both high percentage ways to propagate with root layering being pretty automatic, lay a low lying branch in the dirt and hold it down in the dirt any which way and you'll have a clone in spring.

I agree, these experiments seems to confirm this. Although the timing of grafting seems to be quite critical for success.

fyliu · « **Reply #39 on:** May 29, 2016, 12:05:36 AM »

Just an update. 100% of my grafts this year has pushed out. That's the same dozen that I posted above. It helped that the scions were very fresh. Only a few hours after cutting from the donors. I found one dead today from the graft being bent by force. It had already pushed before that. So whip and tongue method also works in addition to cleft grafting.

Pancrazio · « **Reply #40 on:** May 29, 2016, 06:57:40 PM »

Congratulations to you too.

Now I’m feeling a bit an ugly duckling but I’m happy you both succeeded and I’ll try to treasure your suggestions.

fyliu · « **Reply #41 on:** May 30, 2016, 01:26:03 AM »

Just to give a reference to the size of scions I used.

fyliu · « **Reply #42 on:** May 30, 2016, 01:29:23 AM »

This one's from last August

This is the one I lost

mangomike · « **Reply #43 on:** May 30, 2016, 05:25:49 PM »

+1 on stooling. I used to do all my feijoa propagation that way. Have never tried grafting, because layering/stooling is so easy, plus feijoas naturally branch at the base to form a shrub and it is easy to lose the grafted branch. With a layer, you know the whole plant is that variety.

I grew the mother plants in wide 15 or 25 gal pots and in late winter/early spring would "lift" them 8-12"by putting a layer of new mix underneath. This exposed the whole crown of the rootball, which would begin to sprout root suckers along the newly exposed root surface. I'd just clip the larger ones in mid summer and repot, keeping them in partial shade during hot weather. be careful to not get too greedy and take off to many roots or the mother can be set back/killed.

Solko · « **Reply #44 on:** May 31, 2016, 08:34:27 AM »

Quote from: fyliu on May 29, 2016, 12:05:36 AM

Just an update. 100% of my grafts this year has pushed out. That's the same dozen that I posted above. It helped that the scions were very fresh. Only a few hours after cutting from the donors. I found one dead today from the graft being bent by force. It had already pushed before that. So whip and tongue method also works in addition to cleft grafting.

Wow, Fang, that is amazing, congratulations! 100% is an incredibly good percentage. I hope to do a better round next year with thicker scion wood, now that I know that this is the time of year to graft. My small sized scions are definitely struggling in the slow spring, the new growth flush started, stalled, stopped and started again over 6 weeks time... And some of them are just doing nothing at all and i am afraid they will dry out. Great pictures. Did you need to remove growth or sprouting buds on the rootstock under the grafts for them to push? That is what i am seeing now on my plants where the grafts are stalling.

Quote from: mangomike on May 30, 2016, 05:25:49 PM

+1 on stooling. I used to do all my feijoa propagation that way. Have never tried grafting, because layering/stooling is so easy, plus feijoas naturally branch at the base to form a shrub and it is easy to lose the grafted branch. With a layer, you know the whole plant is that variety.

I grew the mother plants in wide 15 or 25 gal pots and in late winter/early spring would "lift" them 8-12"by putting a layer of new mix underneath. This exposed the whole crown of the rootball, which would begin to sprout root suckers along the newly exposed root surface. I'd just clip the larger ones in mid summer and repot, keeping them in partial shade during hot weather. be careful to not get too greedy and take off to many roots or the mother can be set back/killed.

That is an interesting technique of stooling. Do you clip the new shoots with just a portion of the exposed roots?

chicomoralessxm · « **Reply #45 on:** May 31, 2016, 12:28:03 PM »

When i look at this thread its one of the reasons why i do want to try grafting, but also why i have not tried as yet.
can some one tell me if this is the right tool to get to use for grafting?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CPJTSHU?psc=1

fyliu · « **Reply #46 on:** May 31, 2016, 01:43:13 PM »

chicomoralessxm, that "omega" tool is used for a few specific plants only and doesn't work well for everything. I used to have one. For example, it works for pencil width apple scions pretty well. The problem is you don't always get scions of that size. So using a flat blade grafting knife is still preferred. Just watch some YouTube videos and try it on some easy plants like apples or cherimoya. Maybe post photos in the grafting thread to get some feedback.

Solko, thanks. The weather helped a lot this year by being cool to allow them to heal before pushing. I did have to pick off rootstock shoots before but this year I had to do it to only a few of them where the graft is horizontal. It's hard to find good places to graft.

The other advantage to using thicker scion is you can graft closer to the main trunk. It matters more for my mature tree since the smaller branches are way out to the side and horizontal.

How tall should feijoa trees/bushes be kept? I see some taller branches (above 2m or 6ft) not flowering so I'm putting on air layers to make more rootstock.

mangomike · « **Reply #47 on:** May 31, 2016, 07:36:08 PM »

"That is an interesting technique of stooling. Do you clip the new shoots with just a portion of the exposed roots?"

Yes (if I am understanding your question correctly) I cut the individual root between the uppermost sprout and the "crown" or base of the plant. I would usually do a a few of these at once, and just leave them in place; then a week or ten days later, do a few more. This is to prevent too much trauma to the mother plant from having a large percent of its roots severed at once. Toward the end of the summer I would unpot the mother, remove the individual sprouts and their root systems and pot them up.

This should work for a number of species, I believe. Come to think of it, I'll bet you could do this on potted lychee...

chicomoralessxm · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2016, 12:23:01 AM »

Quote from: fyliu on May 31, 2016, 01:43:13 PM

chicomoralessxm, that "omega" tool is used for a few specific plants only and doesn't work well for everything. I used to have one. For example, it works for pencil width apple scions pretty well. The problem is you don't always get scions of that size. So using a flat blade grafting knife is still preferred. Just watch some YouTube videos and try it on some easy plants like apples or cherimoya. Maybe post photos in the grafting thread to get some feedback.

ok thanks for the suggestions can you suggest good knives on amazon perhaps also what type for grafting should you use?
i live in the tropics so no apple trees to try. Will try some figs, loquat avocado.
Oh desert roses for sure i do have graft some evil ornamentals

fyliu · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2016, 02:12:28 AM »

This is the traditional type of grafting knife http://www.ebay.com/itm/301382737299
Straight edge blade with the bevel on one side to "dig" into the wood as you make the cut.

I got it from Adam's post in this tread http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=871.msg201124#msg201124

Cleft graft is the most general purpose graft. It's easy to learn and do. Success rate is about the same as the more fancy methods. For plants where it matters, getting fresher scions will make up for the difference.
I started out learning whip and tongue graft, so I'm still doing that since I have a lot of practice with it. It works best for a limited case where the scion is about pencil width.

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Author Topic: Grafting pineapple guava (Read 20462 times)