Has any body bought Tim Thompson's new mango varieties?

[TheWaterbug]

Then why do 100% of his sales appear to be to "back yard " growers? I don't think commercial enterprises would put up with the Island time "soon come" delivery date, might be a sign to them it's not as commercially viable as advertised.

I can think of several reasons why it might appear this way:

• Commercial growers probably won't reveal what they're doing until they have fruit to sell. They may not want to tell their competitors what they're doing, and they probably don't want to tell their customers too soon, since these are new cultivars with a lot of risk involved.
• If Tim has 1 commercial order for 10,000 trees and 100 backyarder orders for 1 tree each, but he has only 100 trees to ship right now, he will probably fill the backyard orders first. Filling 1% of the commercial grower's order does nothing for the customer or for Tim, but filling a bunch of small backyarder orders gets 100 annoying people out of his hair 
• 100 backyard growers are much more likely to crow on these forums about receiving their fancy new mango trees, which sounds a lot "louder" than 1-2 commercial growers not talking about their trees.

He did tell me he has some very large commercial orders to fill.

Regarding selection for taste vs hardiness, hardiness obviously has to come first, else there's no point in selecting at all. But Tim has written to me telling me taste was the next critical criteria. I normally don't publish private conversations, but I don't think he would mind me sharing this, and if he does, I'll delete it (so please don't quote it).

I wrote:

Hi! I'm interested in your mango trees. I live on the inland side of Palos Verdes Peninsula, on the fb gentle, east-facing slope of a small canyon. We get some morning fog, but not nearly as much as the folks on the ocean side of PV. I have space for a medium sized tree, perhaps something 10-12" tall/wide at maturity, and that area will get full sun. Taste wise, I'd like something as close a possible to a Kent and as far away as possible from a Tommy Atkins ;-) Which of your varieties would you recommend for me, and how much does one cost? Thanks!

Tim replied:

I got a good chuckle when I read your e-mail when I read the part about Tommy Atkins.  When I started my breeding program 35+ years ago, I swore that I would never release anything like the Tommy Atkins mango.  My prime breeding program criteria was finding mangoes that could grow well in So. Cal and handle our frost.  My secondary criteria was that the mangoes had to taste good. 

To find varieties that I wanted to use for breeding stock, I collected mango varieties from around the world that were rated as the best.  My collection also includes the Tommy Atkins mango which I only use for one thing.  Our taste tests of new mangoes. From my collection I selected the ones that would become my breeders.  For 5 years, I planted 1,000 mango seeds per year and from roughly 5,000 mango seedlings, the frost and powdery mildew killed about 90%. The next thing we had to do was get the seedlings to fruit for evaluation.  (Some of the mango plants that we fruited for the first time last fall were from seeds planted in 1994 and 1995.)  When a new seedling fruits the first time, I taste it first.  That is the end of many seedlings.  If I think it is a good one, it goes to a tasting panel of about a dozen people in a blind taste test that includes some of our best mangoes, some commercial mangoes like the Kent and I always include the Tommy Atkins variety.  Any mango that is not rated by the panel higher than Tommy, gets the axe.  All of our new cold hardy mangoes rate very high when compared to the best mangoes from around the world.

So I've ordered one Tequila Sunrise and one Gold Coast, and I'm in the "summer 2015" group. I intend to pick them up from Camarillo when they tell me they're ready. I'm really hoping these do well here. I put in a Keitt and a Kent from FL last year, and they're doing a whole lot of nothing right now.

[TheWaterbug]

Bush2beach - just cause on person ships something to California does not make it legal.  Cry all you want, it is what it is.  Some nurseries ship mango trees from Florida to California illegally,  does that mean everyone should.

From Erickson Farms:

http://ericksonfarm.com/faqs/60-faq5.html

That page says:

Why can't I ship mangos to California or Arizona?   
The state Department of Agriculture restricts us from shipping into these states.

[emphasis mine]

It doesn't say that no one can ship from FL to CA.

I bought a Keitt and a Kent from Plant-O-Gram last year, and they came in a box with a USDA inspection certificate.

[From the sea]

Fruit also has different rules than trees do.

[bsbullie]

Bush2beach - just cause on person ships something to California does not make it legal.  Cry all you want, it is what it is.  Some nurseries ship mango trees from Florida to California illegally,  does that mean everyone should.

From Erickson Farms:

http://ericksonfarm.com/faqs/60-faq5.html

That page says:

Why can't I ship mangos to California or Arizona?   
The state Department of Agriculture restricts us from shipping into these states.

[emphasis mine]

It doesn't say that no one can ship from FL to CA.

I bought a Keitt and a Kent from Plant-O-Gram last year, and they came in a box with a USDA inspection certificate.

You bought fruit from Plant-O-Gram??

[barath]

TheWaterbug -- if I might ask the same question I asked about mango growing in Vista earlier -- why were you interested in Tim Thompson's mangoes given where you live?  If you never get frost, then wouldn't the various other cultivars that are top in the taste test rankings in Southern California be the best to plant?  Or is it that you get mildew or lack heat?

[TheWaterbug]

I bought a Keitt and a Kent from Plant-O-Gram last year, and they came in a box with a USDA inspection certificate.

Let me amend that to "I bought a Keitt tree and a Kent tree from Plant-O-Gram . . . ." I'd thought that was obvious by context, but perhaps not.

As to why I'm interested in Tim's cultivars, I hadn't found TFF at that time, and I wasn't even sure that _any_ mangos (other than Philippine/Ataulfo) would grow easily in Los Angeles. For some reason my googling didn't find TFF until much later.

So I was open to any and all possibilities, and Tim's website seemed promising.

I'm not worried about having too many mangos 

edit: so what other varieties would be good for me?

[bsbullie]

Yes, it was clearly obvious you bought trees from plantogram.  I know Mickey doesn't sell fruit.  With that being said,  what i p I sted from Erickson farms and what the discussion wascabout was shipping mango fruit from Florida to California.  Not sure what your statement aboyt huying trees had to do with anything.

[TheWaterbug]

Maybe I lost the context somewhere. I was responding to this:

Bush2beach - just cause on person ships something to California does not make it legal.  Cry all you want, it is what it is.  Some nurseries ship mango trees from Florida to California illegally,  does that mean everyone should.

[emphasis mine]

More on-topic, I just a received an email from Tim Thompson apologizing for late deliveries of my trees. Then again they're not late in my book, because I'm in the "summer 2015" group.

Anyway, the level of detail he provided in his email (TMI!!!!) made his reasons believable and understandable. So I'm waiting.

[marklee]

Here are two of the varieties I received from Tim.

"Cal Ruby" and "Camarillo Sunset"

[HMHausman]

Here are two of the varieties I received from Tim.

"Cal Ruby" and "Camarillo Sunset"

Nice looking trees.  I hope they are everything that they are promised to be.  It will be most interesting to see how they progress and especially, how they deal with the cold.  Not that I am wishing anyone any cold weather mind you.  Definitely keep us posted.

[ScottR]

Nice looking trees Mark, best of luck growing them up, I hope to get my Tequila Sunrise this year

[marklee]

Here are two of the varieties I received from Tim.

"Cal Ruby" and "Camarillo Sunset"

Nice looking trees.  I hope they are everything that they are promised to be.  It will be most interesting to see how they progress and especially, how they deal with the cold.  Not that I am wishing anyone any cold weather mind you.  Definitely keep us posted.

Harry,

My climate is fine for mangoes, except I don't get the heat, so maybe these are better for the coastal areas of Southern California. Anyways, any new mango is worth trying in my book.
 

[HMHausman]

I agree with that, for sure.  Have descriptions of these varieties that you have purchased been described....maybe in this thread or another?

[marklee]

I agree with that, for sure.  Have descriptions of these varieties that you have purchased been described....maybe in this thread or another?

The website is down which described the varieties, and I don't remember the characteristics when he showed them.

[So_Cal_Mike]

The website is down which described the varieties, and I don't remember the characteristics when he showed them.

Here you go...

http://www.socalplantbreeders.com/#!mango-varieties-currently-avai/comb

[bsbullie]

So they are basically varying degrees of sweetness,  little to no fiber and mild, pleasant to delicate flavor.  Based on the written descriptions,  they are either average run of the mill mangoes in terms of taste and texture or they need to have somebody better qualified to write the descriptions.

[fyliu]

I'm not a mango person. I think the main appeal is that they're more cold and disease-tolerant and can produce in a wider range than current mangoes. He marketed them to commercial growers.
They're supposed to be better than Timotayo.

[HMHausman]

The website is down which described the varieties, and I don't remember the characteristics when he showed them.

Here you go...

http://www.socalplantbreeders.com/#!mango-varieties-currently-avai/comb

Yeah, they need to take a few pointers from mango marketers here in Florida regarding their descriptions.  However, they are very nice looking mangoes.  Thanks for posting the link to the descriptions.

[ricshaw]

They're supposed to be better than Timotayo.

Just curious...  where did you hear that they are better than Timotayo?

[Clay]

Hi All,

I've been mostly lurking on this board, gaining lots of insight from fellow mango lovers. Although I grew up in So. Florida in the '60s and "liked" mangos, I didn't really fall in LOVE with mangos until about 15 years ago when I visited the Cayman Islands and tried some Nam Doc Mai  mangos. That is when I realized that I had probably never before had a really good mango. I wanted to try to grow mangos in my back yard in Costa Mesa.

On my first attempt at growing a Nam Doc Mai, the tree died after about 2 - 3 years. It looked like I must have watered it too much. Very poor root development. A few years later I tried another NDM and in its second winter, even though I had it protected from the cold, everything above the graft line died. I dug that tree out and became very frustrated...

Two years ago when I saw the announcement about Tim Thompson's new cold tolerant varieties, I decided to try again, and I ordered two trees. Last week, I planted those two trees in my back yard. They are Tequila Sunrise and Gold Coast.  If everything goes well, I hope to start getting fruit in about three years.

I do have a space where I could possibly plant one more tree. I was thinking it would be fun to plant another premium mango variety so I can compare/document its progress to that of the cold-hardy mangos from Tim Thompson. I am trying to decide on what to plant and where to get it locally. I have read the raves about the Lemon Zest, but I don't know where to get one. Should I try that? Or try for another Nam Doc Mai? Or something else?  I'd like an excellent dessert type mango. My space is limited and I plan to keep the tree pruned and compact, hopefully no more than 10 - 12 feet tall.

Does anyone have any recommendations pro or con regarding LZ, NDM or some other good candidate. Thanks for sharing any thoughts you may have. I plan to contribute more here in the forums now that I am "in the game" myself.

Clay

[mangomanic12]

Clay good luck in growing your mangoes. Don't baby em too much and stay away from excess chemical fertilizer the first 2 years or so use mild stuff such as fish emulsion , heavy mulch  and foliar feed  is what i've learned. If you get freezes don't be lazy , just protect them well. If you are lazy with protection they will die or no fruit the next year. I had many mangoes this year and one that i find very delicious and may fit the bill with your space contraints is Fairchild. Compact tree , good producer ,awesome flavor.
Lemon Zest is very vigorous , Nam doc mai might work???

Good luck.
Mike in AZ

[fyliu]

They're supposed to be better than Timotayo.

Just curious...  where did you hear that they are better than Timotayo?

I think it was from Tim telling people not to get it. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if it's because Timotayo got released before he got the chance to patent it and he's just not happy about it. Bit I figured it's true since Timotayo was from his early efforts.

[MangoFang]

...so now we have a "Clay" and a "ClayMango", both from Southern California....sheesh......

Anyway, Clay, I like the Lemon Zest flavor.  It's like no other that I have tasted, but I haven't
tasted many of the other new  Florida varieties.  It's also a bit vigorous but for me, and others,
that's a good thing in case frost hits or excessive heat, the tree will recover nicely.oo

And good luck, amigo, on your new "hobby"!  Like you, I was never into mangoes until a home grown
one fell into my lap a few years ago....

Gary

[Clay]

...so now we have a "Clay" and a "ClayMango", both from Southern California....sheesh......

Yep, another Clay who loves mangos! Maybe I should change my handle to MangoClay so that nobody confuses me with ClayMango....

After reading about how vigorous the Lemon Zest tree is, I think my available space is probably too small. Maybe I can figure out how to grow something else that I could TRADE with someone who has an LZ tree, just to add to my mango experience.

[barath]

They're supposed to be better than Timotayo.

Just curious...  where did you hear that they are better than Timotayo?

I think it was from Tim telling people not to get it. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if it's because Timotayo got released before he got the chance to patent it and he's just not happy about it. Bit I figured it's true since Timotayo was from his early efforts.

btw, I never was able to find Tim's patents (pending or awarded) for his mangoes...