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Messages - hardyvermont

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1
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Trifoliate flower scent?
« on: March 22, 2024, 09:03:16 PM »
This week Precocious Poncirus flowers collected for their pollen were sitting in a small bowl and a faint fragrance came off of them.  First time I have noticed any odor.

2
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« on: February 01, 2024, 07:43:55 PM »
Juvenile citrus plants frequently have thorns that do not persist in the mature fruiting plant, so your plant may eventually be thornless as an adult.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: What to try in zone 8a-b
« on: February 01, 2024, 07:36:19 PM »
3-3 usually sets fruit, but my 2-2 has never bloomed, so it needs more attention apparently.  2-2 is hardier by at least a couple of degrees.  From sampling 2-2 a long time ago, and the 3-3 more recently, 2-2 had more flavor. 

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tremendous Cold Wave coming our way
« on: January 23, 2024, 12:02:20 AM »
I put 4 citrus and one olive tree in the ground last spring. I have been researching for about 2 years on how to get them to survive a winter by using 100 watts of electricity (a string of Christmas LIghts) along with plastic, styrofoam and wood chips. I am actually having a problem with them being to warm. Last night it was 16 degrees and inside my set up it was 62 degrees...as you look at my photo the trees are actually 2 feet below the level of the plastic. i planted them 1 foot below ground level and added 1 foot of wood chips. At 10 cents a kilowatt hr...my lights are running at 100 watts an hour.  So basically 1 cent an hour to heat my setup

c/Y4QCqHnZ/citrus-trees-3.jpg[/img][/url]
This may help: https://www.homedepot.com/p/15-Amp-120-Volt-AC-Thermo-Cube-Thermostatically-Controlled-Double-Outlet-TC3/100210525

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ways to protect your citrus trees in ground
« on: December 24, 2023, 08:58:41 PM »
Home Depot has incandescent Christmas lights half price.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Southeastern Citrus Expo
« on: November 26, 2023, 03:10:57 PM »
Thank you sir! I'm so happy that recordings of the presentations are now being made. I have been 2 of these, and I was always annoyed when I missed one because I was late or speaking to other attendees...
It great to be able to go back and find out what I missed the first time. 

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Southeastern Citrus Expo
« on: November 25, 2023, 10:37:57 AM »
This year's talks were recorded.  Some of the topics are:
Dr. Juan Carlos Melgar, Clemson U - Winners and Losers from the 2022 Christmas freeze. 
Hershell Boyd, Madison Citrus - From Zero to 200 Citrus Varieties in 2 Years. 
2023 SE Citrus Expo - Confessions of Certified Citruholics 
Many thanks to Derick Nantz for his efforts.   
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmGyHdsSsGc&list=PLz1OK2nyDTOCgLBukjR7pfXOKK5lv76Ye

9
http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/indexc4ff.php

Does anyone know where the information about seed grafting method is located?

10
On the old forum there was a topic about grafting a sprouted seed onto a rootstock. 

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My citrus collection [EU - Antwerp]
« on: August 17, 2023, 10:20:37 AM »
Does someone know what causes the leaf stem/veins to turn red like this?

It happens on some of my rooted poncirus cuttings:


What is the current situation?  Were you growing these plants under lights set for a long day and then changed to fewer hours/natural light?  This occurred on some of my 3/4 poncirus hybrids. Change in day length appeared to turn plants dormant.  Poncirus leaves frequently turn color before they fall.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Prague bark damage, sun scald?
« on: June 13, 2023, 03:10:42 PM »
 Diluted latex with water sounds like a great idea.  I am going to try it too.  Will paint the bottom few inches of some trees which have lost all bark from the winter events, will try bridge grafting and inarching.

13
I think those are juvenile leaves.

14
From the Southeastern Citrus Expo

 "Dr. Christopher Vincent, Associate Professor Horticultural Sciences University of Florida, will share his research on the effects of water and shade on citrus health, citrus greening, and other citrus growing challenges."

He discussed shade on citrus production.  It is a complicated topic, photosynthesis comes to an intermittent stop because of moisture loss in full sun.  When stomata are open, CO2 can enter the leaf, but moisture can leave.  So stomata close to keep moisture in.  It cycles.  Spraying a light blocking film on the leaves improved growth. 

15
Thank you for creating this resource. 

10 Degree Tangerine 3-3 died at 9 F. -12.8 C
10 Degree Tangerine 2-2 survived
CiClem 10 is approximately as hardy as 2-2
Curafora barely survived

Thanks! I'll get those added once I'm back at my computer. Any idea on if any of them give much zygotic seed?

Part of my motivation here is the fact that precious few cold hardy citrus also produce mostly zygotic seeds. There are a lot of hardy citrus, but almost all of them are basically dead ends when it comes to breeding. Identifying the ones that are both cold hardy and zygotic, and creating a reference for them, is something I've noticed is weirdly lacking on the forum and on the internet in general.
3-3 and Curafora made trifoliate leaves after being crossed with poncirus.  No idea how zygotic.  The other two have never born fruit.

16
Thank you for creating this resource. 

10 Degree Tangerine 3-3 died at 9 F. -12.8 C
10 Degree Tangerine 2-2 survived
CiClem 10 is approximately as hardy as 2-2
Curafora barely survived

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: To protect or not to protect
« on: May 05, 2023, 04:30:55 PM »
"But would there be a benefit to keeping them uncovered and able to photosynthesize as long as temperatures were mild, as they usually are in a maritime climate, let's say in the range of 25 to 50 F which is the typical range. It could even be above freezing for weeks at a time."

That is frequently the weather in Zone 8a.  My observation is that if there is a benefit from uncovering and recovering it is minimal and given the amount of work required, not worth it.


Fruit of Owari from late blooms were edible when the tree was uncovered in the spring.  I don't know how edible it was but if a plant is dormant, wouldn't the fruit be dormant, and then ripen when warmth and light returns. 


18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: To protect or not to protect
« on: May 05, 2023, 03:35:59 PM »
Citrus can be covered with a tarp for the winter and left that way for months without damage.  They don't have to be repeatedly covered and uncovered.  This has been discussed here and in the older forum a few times. 
However, if there is a heavy snow on the tarp it can can break the underlying branches unless there is some additional support.

A tree in Massachusetts kept under a tarp and warmed with aquarium heater in a water barrel kept fruit that were found to be
edible when uncovered in the spring.

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Timeline for fruit
« on: April 26, 2023, 08:33:40 PM »
If I have an Owari Satsuma outside when does it have to bloom in order to have ripe fruit by Thanksgiving?  What temp does it need to produce flowers and bloom?

Mike Adams
Owari blooming now in the Southeast will have ripe fruit by Thanksgiving. 

20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Poncirus
« on: April 25, 2023, 01:06:58 PM »
I think "orange" fits well for Poncirus. I have let the juice stand for one night in an open glas, then threw away the bottom fraction and made lemonade from the rest of the juice. It tasted primarily orange-like, not like a lemon (by the way better than both).

I ask myself though how it happend that the overall bad taste of Poncirus developed. What was its evolutionary advantage? What kind of animals love exactly that taste? I have picked up somewhere that the taste is designed for antelopes. Can that be true?
Well, animals sometimes have a very different taste from ourselves. Rabbits like bitter meadow. Many animals eat conifers. ... It could also be that some animals that are ruminants find fresh poncirus fruits just acceptable but love the taste of fermented fruits - I mean when they eat them a second time (ruminated). As I wrote above the bad flavour of Poncirus vaporizes over night totally (in case of better tasting fruits) or at least largely (in case of bad tasting fruits). The chemical changes in a rumina will be much greater.
Interesting speculation about antelopes Till.  Fruit needs to pass through the body and survive, or partially eaten and some seed survive.  .  Transport of seeds by animals is called zoochory. I can't find specific information about citrus zoochory.  Speculating on poncirus, especially with the large number of thorns, it doesn't want it's fruit to be eaten before the seed is ripe, thorns protect the fruit and the tree.  When the fruit are ripe, they drop to the ground and are more readily available.  The fruit resins which may keep the fruit from rotting degrade, and the fruit could become more palatable.  Some animals that eat citrus are rats, monkeys, red panda, some bird species. 

21
None of the trees described here were protected except US 119.   

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus damage after freeze
« on: April 14, 2023, 04:58:52 PM »
8 F, 13 C was not cold enough to differentiate a lot between most hardy citrus.  Both types of 10 Degree Tangerine appear to be more sensitive to the cold than expected, leaves curled more than most.  Brown Select, Changsha, Keraji appear to have done well.  Sugar Belle will probably lose its leaves, but seems to have survived.
As Millet said, more time was needed to find the true amount of damage, which was much worse than initially appeared.  Posted elsewhere on this forum are the evaluations.

23
Cold Hardiness results, low of 9F. -13C:
Dead
Bloomsweet  High grafted and some poncirus growth allowed below.
Juanita
Brown Select
US 119

A lot of damage
Keraji, one larger tree dead.  Another will recover
Curafora
10 Degree 3-3

In better shape, minimal or no damage
10 Degree 2-2
CiClem 10
Ventura Lemondarin
Morton
Swingle
Bishop 852






24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: U.S. 119...who is growing it?
« on: April 14, 2023, 03:58:59 PM »
My US 119 died.  It was covered with a tarp but otherwise not protected. It was planted last summer so was just a couple feet tall.  Low was about 9 F, -13 C. Unknown what temperature the plant endured, it was surprising that the ground did not release sufficient heat for a relatively cold hardy plant to survive. 

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: March 28, 2023, 09:01:50 PM »
Leaves are thick and serrate, maybe tetraploid?

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