Author Topic: Help needed to identify this Annona sp. Possibly Annona cacans (Read 15357 times)

Soren · « **on:** February 02, 2012, 02:59:05 AM »

I could use some help identify this Annona sp. from South-america. I believe it could be Annona cacans, but are not sure.

Bark, leaves and fruit in the center. The tree is easily vegetative propagated from root suckers.

siafu · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2012, 07:30:17 AM »

Hi Søren,

You do know what "cacans" means, right? So, you only have to eat the fruits,
and wait...

Soren · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2012, 09:41:32 AM »

True, but there are only two fruits. Not sure that is enough for the effect.

siafu · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2012, 11:52:59 AM »

Hi,

Could it be, instead, Rollinia sylvatica or emarginata?

The bumpy texture of the immature fruits resemble some of the pictures in Internet labelled
with either species. Whereas, I don't see much resemblance to the few pictures of A. cacans
that I can find.

Check R. sylvatica in the link below.

http://www.ativoflorestal.com.br/mudas

fruitlovers · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:58:12 AM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 05, 2012, 09:41:32 AM

True, but there are only two fruits. Not sure that is enough for the effect.

Post the photo on Yahoo newsgroup. Anestor should be able to ID it.
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:07:49 AM »

Hi Sérgio, well - there are much confusion when it comes to some of those species - take a look at Helton's website; http://www.bananasraras.org/frutasrarasingles/rollinia1.htm - this would rule out R. sylvatica. And the same picture you linked to can be seen here; http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiliamaquino/4231050489/# - but now it is Rollinia emarginata.
However - I have not any literature on the Central- and South-American species, so it is not easy - and yes, I have already mailed Anestor as I know he grows A. cacans (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1F1M5Tv6KqiE6lzF9QDPDw).

fruitlovers · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:15:58 AM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 06, 2012, 01:07:49 AM

Hi Sérgio, well - there are much confusion when it comes to some of those species - take a look at Helton's website; http://www.bananasraras.org/frutasrarasingles/rollinia1.htm - this would rule out R. sylvatica. And the same picture you linked to can be seen here; http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiliamaquino/4231050489/# - but now it is Rollinia emarginata.
However - I have not any literature on the Central- and South-American species, so it is not easy - and yes, I have already mailed Anestor as I know he grows A. cacans (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1F1M5Tv6KqiE6lzF9QDPDw).

If you post a better photo of ripe fruit, interior of fruit, and seed i can ID it for you from the Lorenzi books, if Anestor doesn't reply.
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:17:35 AM »

Thanks Oscar, will do.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:29:29 AM »

closest I can think of is Annona rugulosa....but I don't think that's it!

Soren · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2012, 01:31:38 AM »

Anestor replied, will have to wait until it is ripe:

..... but the leaves seem to Annona cacans. However, the fruit does not seem to be, because the fruits of Annona cacans I've seen are as a rule, smoother and more conical. Well would expect the fruit to mature.

..... mas pelas folhas até parece Annona cacans. Todavia, pelo fruto, parece não ser, pois os frutos da Annona cacans que eu vi são, em regra, mais lisos e mais cônicos. Bom seria esperar o fruto amadurecer.

Soren · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2012, 01:05:11 AM »

Clearly not A. cacans; for what I thought to be a very immature fruit was indeed almost ripe. As seen from the picture, the fruits is small (measurement in cm.), and very seedy - contained 26 seeds in total. The pulp was slightly transparent, with a very delicious 'fragrant' taste - tones of A. mucosa and A. muricata. However the small fruit-size and low pulp to seed ratio will ensure this is a collectors-item only.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:29:05 PM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 20, 2012, 01:05:11 AM

Clearly not A. cacans; for what I thought to be a very immature fruit was indeed almost ripe. As seen from the picture, the fruits is small (measurement in cm.), and very seedy - contained 26 seeds in total. The pulp was slightly transparent, with a very delicious 'fragrant' taste - tones of A. mucosa and A. muricata. However the small fruit-size and low pulp to seed ratio will ensure this is a collectors-item only.

Probably it is Rollinia emarginata. If you read Lorenzi's comments he says same exact thing: tastes good but very little to eat. His photo also matches yours. If you can find any flowers you will know for sure. Does it have the propeller shaped rollinia flowers? A close up of the leaves and flowers and then can give positive ID.
Oscar

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2012, 05:12:23 PM »

Quote from: fruitlovers on February 20, 2012, 04:29:05 PM

Probably it is Rollinia emarginata. If you read Lorenzi's comments he says same exact thing: tastes good but very little to eat. His photo also matches yours. If you can find any flowers you will know for sure. Does it have the propeller shaped rollinia flowers? A close up of the leaves and flowers and then can give positive ID.
Oscar

Nope, not emarginata!

I have that one, and it doesn't look a thing like that! Fruits are smaller, leaves are smaller, and not as glabrous.

Try again.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2012, 05:18:41 PM »

Probably some other rollinia species then. Yes i did notice that Lorenzi's photo showed smaller fruit and seeds. But you know size in a photo doesn't mean much of anything, as the fruit photoed can be smaller or larger than average depending on what is available at the time for the camera.
Soren, what you need to do if possible is get a closeup shot of the flower and leaf.
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:40:05 AM »

Oscar - let me try - I also forwarded the pictures to some of the Brazilian cultivators, so perhaps they will get back with a comment. When I received the original seeds they were labeled as Annona sp.

Soren · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:29:20 AM »

I got this from Helton Josué;

"Its fruit is called here Araticum, the species is: Annona neosalicifolia, very common here in the Southeast and Southern Brazil. the fruit is very good, more has little pulp."

fruitlovers · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:31:08 PM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 22, 2012, 01:29:20 AM

I got this from Helton Josué;

"Its fruit is called here Araticum, the species is: Annona neosalicifolia, very common here in the Southeast and Southern Brazil. the fruit is very good, more has little pulp."

Hi Soren, that's actually Rollinia salicifolia, that has now been renamed Annona salicifolia. The flowers are typical propeller shaped like other rollinias. Here is the page from Lorenzi's Brazilian Trees Vol. 3:

I wonder now how such a rare South American species ended up in Uganda? Was there a very serious collector there?
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2012, 01:40:46 AM »

Thanks for the information - would definitely need to get Lorenzi's books. By the way, I am the collector - got the seeds some years back from one of the Brazilian cultivators, but they were labeled Annona sp.

Looking up the name in http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php; I get both a A. salicifolia Ekman & R. E. Fr. and A. neosalicifolia H. Rainer· [Rainer, Heimo 1964-] which are not synonyms.
I am aware that Rollinia was merged with Annona, but have yet to update my species lists.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:29:04 AM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 23, 2012, 01:40:46 AM

Thanks for the information - would definitely need to get Lorenzi's books. By the way, I am the collector - got the seeds some years back from one of the Brazilian cultivators, but they were labeled Annona sp.

Looking up the name in http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php; I get both a A. salicifolia Ekman & R. E. Fr. and A. neosalicifolia H. Rainer· [Rainer, Heimo 1964-] which are not synonyms.
I am aware that Rollinia was merged with Annona, but have yet to update my species lists.

Oh, so you're the serious collector?

Did those seeds come from Helton?
Don't see on your link where you get A. neosalicifolia ?
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:31:23 AM »

Not sure there are other collectors in Uganda - but to be honest I am not sure where they came from - it could have been Anestor - but it was around 5 years ago and I lost the record.
For the names, I make the search for both names (genus + species) in http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php

fruitlovers · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:03:22 PM »

Quote from: Jegindo on February 23, 2012, 05:31:23 AM

Not sure there are other collectors in Uganda - but to be honest I am not sure where they came from - it could have been Anestor - but it was around 5 years ago and I lost the record.
For the names, I make the search for both names (genus + species) in http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php

Hi Soren, could be Anestor as he has a bunch of different rollinia species. Most of the rollinia species besides deliciosa are very tiny and mostly seeds. Can you please save me some seeds to mail? I think your fruit is salicifolia, not neosalicifolia.
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2012, 12:56:14 AM »

Oscar - I will mail you 10 seeds (Warren is getting as well), lets hope these will reach. By chance, you would not have any "rare" Annonaceae to trade for?

fruitlovers · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:06:04 AM »

Soren, are you interested in ilama, Annona diversifolia or poshte, Annona scleroderma?
Oscar

Soren · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:33:40 AM »

Sent you an email.

Guanabanus · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2012, 08:36:44 PM »

It would be most helpful to see the flower. Antonio Morschbacker, contactable through the Rare Fruit Council, International, or through facebook, would be a good bet to help you identify this. From this one picture it could be any one of several Annona or Rollinia species.

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Author Topic: Help needed to identify this Annona sp. Possibly Annona cacans (Read 15357 times)