The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: sunworshiper on July 06, 2015, 10:38:25 AM
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So far, the Angie mango has been a dud for me. Very anthracnose prone, and I've not yet had a good fruit from the tree flavor wise (2nd year producing). They all have a very bitter "off" flavor. I'll continue to post on flavor of this season's fruit in the thread on whether or not Angie is top tier. I'm starting to read up on possible replacements so that I might be able to taste varieties this year so I can be better informed next spring when I'll make a final decision on whether or not to plant something else. I would love suggestions on what to seek out for tasting this year. Here are my criteria for a new tree for my yard:
1. Tree must be able to be maintained at 8' or less. I'm in Orlando & have to frost protect every year, so this is my primary limitation. I am willing to prune religiously to keep the tree in check if it can fruit productively at a small size.
2. Consistent fruit quality - I don't want a tree that it is fiddly to get peak ripeness where the fruit is only good if at perfect ripeness.
3. Excellent flavor. My favorite mango is Edward - I'd love to plant one, but have heard that keeping a productive tree small enough is not likely. I tend to like flavors with a good sweet/tart balance and no spice or resinous flavor.
4. Not a variety I already have - I've got Pickering, Cogshall & Manilita.
5. Mid to late season fruit - the early season fruit bloom too early and it is too hard to protect panicles from frost.
From browsing the recent postings, Maha Chanok and Providence sound like they might be good fits. What else would people recommend? All those new Zill varieties sound very exciting, but are any of the trees small enough to fit my size requirements?
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Fairchild?
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From browsing the recent postings, Maha Chanok and Providence sound like they might be good fits. What else would people recommend? All those new Zill varieties sound very exciting, but are any of the trees small enough to fit my size requirements?
At least in my yard the new Zill Pina Colada is a slow, non-vigorous grower. In fact It does not grow fast enough for me! The fruits taste great, an 8.5 out of 10 but are small.
Maybe I got a dwarfish pina colada. Maybe others have different experience.
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I'd probably go Maha Chanok. I"ve been very impressed with mine. Great sweet + tart flavor, fairly slow growing and seems to have a long production season.
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I'd probably go Maha Chanok. I"ve been very impressed with mine. Great sweet + tart flavor, fairly slow growing and seems to have a long production season.
I would agree. The Mahachanok will probably be your best bet with your concerns (I personally would not feel you should have any issues with it as if the first blooms get hit by cold, it will re-flower). While I agree that the Fairchild is an outstanding mango, it is an earlier season and if you have any reservations with issues on an early season variety, than pass on it.
Honey Kiss is another top choice however it will be about a year until trees will be available for purchase.
I don't see Pina Colada as being that small in the long run.
As for Providence, I highly recommend sampling before you consider purchasing. It is a mango that many love and many dislike. I think the naysayers are due to the fact that they dont pick it or let it ripen properly before eating. It is not one that is good if you are impatient or tend to eat you fruits before fully ripe.
You may also want to consider the Venus. From what I have seen, I don't feel it will be a vigorous grower and I think it can easily be maintained.
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Fairchild. Had some from Zands' tree. Highly productive and absolutely delicious and a small tree too .
Mike ...in AZ
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I have a Fairchild planted in your zone and I love it. No problems so far to have to spray for and it hasn't missed a crop since it first fruited six years back. This is the tree that got me started on mango's.
The tree has been hassle free other than pruning like you do with all of them. For this area and its constant heat and muggy conditions in summer, it in my yard at least has done very well. The taste, I gave two Fairchild mangos to my cousin last season, he called back wanting to know where to buy a tree. He has a Fairchild tree now also.
I just saw my first full size Carrie tree, condo my rear end, the Fairchild is a much smaller tree and can fit into some of the warmer spots we need up here.
If you want a smaller tree, this is a good one. It has done well for me in these conditions. I don't want to fight wet conditions with a tree that can't take it. I have zero complaints on the Fairchild other than I wish they would produce more.
I have a MahaChanok that I just planted this spring. It does taste better than the Fairchild. But I just don't have much growing info on it as of yet at my place. But it is one of the best in taste so I would plant both types if you have room.
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Thanks for the wonderful responses! I will definitely seek out a Maha Chanok to taste this year, it does sound like a good fit. An extended ripening season is definitely a bonus. I need to seek out and try Fairchild again, it was a tree I considered when I first planted, but I found two fruit to try (different sources) and wasn't all that impressed. Of course perfectly possible I didn't get good ones.
Thanks a lot for the input on Providence, it sounds like it is probably not for me, if it tends to have a polarizing reaction from different tasters. Very helpful input!
Honey kiss, Venus and Pina colada I'm not familiar with, off to forum search to read more about those. I'm not in any particular hurry, and wouldn't plant any earlier than next spring anyhow, so I can wait if there is a tree who's fruit I really like that won't be available for a while.
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Reading up on honey kiss - another thread indicates it is a Kent seedling. Kents are one of my favorites, does honey kiss have similar flavor characteristics?
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Reading up on honey kiss - another thread indicates it is a Kent seedling. Kents are one of my favorites, does honey kiss have similar flavor characteristics?
Honey Kiss is a Keitt seedling (if it was from one of my posts and it says Kent, that was a typo). It does not taste like Keitt (or kent for the matter :) ). It is a very sweet mango, brightly colored, late season and has a distinct honey aroma and taste. It is not like Nam Doc Mai in any way which many say has a honey flavor. The Honey Kiss is more complex, more intense flavor and the hone component is distinct as opposed to just being "as sweet as honey" like the NDM.
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I can only comment on flavor, not tree or growth habits -
Maha Chanok is the king of all mangos in my book - a marvel of nature. 'Forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden' kinda level. It has a complex and incredibly suave balance of sweet and tart flavors - but it has a subtle spice element (that some of us associate with 'cola syrup'). It's not like a heavy turpentine resinous taste - its subtle. Some reviewers don't mention or notice this taste when describing it.
Venus has a lovely flavor - really delicious - but it also has the same subtle spice element found in Maha Chanok.
Honey Kiss has a mellow & sweet flavor. I don't find the flavor to be that "interesting" but it is very "good." Honey Kiss might be my selection if I were trying to pick a mango to sell nationwide at Whole Foods - an ideal and agreeable flavor for the discerning Caucasian American fruit shopper. If your favorite mango is Edward, you might like Honey Kiss.
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I can only comment on flavor, not tree or growth habits -
Maha Chanok is the king of all mangos in my book - a marvel of nature. 'Forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden' kinda level. It has a complex and incredibly suave balance of sweet and tart flavors - but it has a subtle spice element (that some of us associate with 'cola syrup'). It's not like a heavy turpentine resinous taste - its subtle. Some reviewers don't mention or notice this taste when describing it.
Venus has a lovely flavor - really delicious - but it also has the same subtle spice element found in Maha Chanok.
Honey Kiss has a mellow & sweet flavor. I don't find the flavor to be that "interesting" but it is very "good." Honey Kiss might be my selection if I were trying to pick a mango to sell nationwide at Whole Foods - an ideal and agreeable flavor for the discerning Caucasian American fruit shopper. If your favorite mango is Edward, you might like Honey Kiss.
Really??
The discerning fruit shopper would be blown away by a Honey Kiss when the only thing they have to compare with is a boiled Kent, Keitt, Tommy Atkins, Haitian type or a wrinkled Champage/Ataulfo mango. I also disagree with your assessment (then again, I dont see the distinct cola flavor you refer to) that if you like Edward you will like Honey Kiss. I really like Honey Kiss but am not a great fan of Edward...however to each their own. Honey Kiss also has to be picked and riped to a proper stage to bring out its flavor (like a Pickering). I am sure many eat both before they are truly ready and hence the blah reactiuon to them. Just my two pennies...
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In its stride Angie is a fantastic tasting and productive mango. But...my tree has had lots of scab issues over the last two years that are making me question its long term viability :(.
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SunWorshipper,
If you love both Edward and Kent, I would guess you'd like Honey Kiss. It's not hard to believe its a seedling of Kent - there are similarities. It sits on the milder end of mango flavor wheel: sweet, sunny, mellow, vaguely "tropical." It's difficult for me to say which is the best tasting out of Edward, Kent and Honey Kiss... they're all good ones... but I'd probably take Honey Kiss.
It's got a very "agreeable" character of flavor that I could imagine being likable to most and objectionable to very few.
That being said, I have never heard anyone say its their favorite mango or go insane over it.
Now Maha Chanok, on the other hand... :) :D ;D
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Such a great wealth of knowledge! I really appreciate all of the detail in the descriptions of the flavor profiles! Thanks for the correction on the Kent vs Keitt parentage. I hadn't heard the cola taste comparison to the Maha before, hard to imagine. So is there anywhere that I could acquire Maha Chanok, Honey Kiss and Venus fruits to try? Anyone selling them (feel free to link to the appropriate spot in the buy/sell)? I lean toward the Maha based on descriptions, but all three sound appealing and I would like to taste before planting if possible.
Swrancher - I'm not sure what scab looks like, but my Angie's I think may have that too. Very ugly fruit, they have anthracnose spots for sure, and a lot of what looks like scuff marks except all over the fruit not just where it contacts another branch. They fall off the tree when barely showing the slightest yellow blush - very hard for me to tell when they are ripe. They look nothing like the gorgeous red yellow Fairchild advertised. Also, it seems to require copper to set fruit. I didn't spray half of the tree - those panicles set zero fruit. Panicles I sprayed set heavily, then self culled to 1 or 2 fruits. Overall, doesn't seem like an easy tree.
My Manilita may be plain flavor wise, but it is a joy in the garden. Every fruit ripens unblemished and perfect, no uneven ripening, and it requires no spraying. Very easy tree. How do Maha, Venus and Honey Kiss compare in disease resistance and ability to set fruit without spraying? Also, how are their internode lengths? Short lengths, in addition to lower vigor make the tree easier to shape.
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SunWorshipper,
If you love both Edward and Kent, I would guess you'd like Honey Kiss. It's not hard to believe its a seedling of Kent - there are similarities. It sits on the milder end of mango flavor wheel: sweet, sunny, mellow, vaguely "tropical." It's difficult for me to say which is the best tasting out of Edward, Kent and Honey Kiss... they're all good ones... but I'd probably take Honey Kiss.
It's got a very "agreeable" character of flavor that I could imagine being likable to most and objectionable to very few.
That being said, I have never heard anyone say its their favorite mango or go insane over it.
Now Maha Chanok, on the other hand... :) :D ;D
I will tell you this, last year I had MANY different mangos and I would rate the Honey Kiss right up there with the best of them! In fact I have been waiting for over a year now to get a tree! Gonna wait until next year for my tree! It's the only mango my 14 year old daughter will eat and also my wife's favorite mango hands down! Not my #1 but I'll tell you this I would never kick her out of bed!
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I will tell you this, last year I had MANY different mangos and I would rate the Honey Kiss right up there with the best of them! In fact I have been waiting for over a year now to get a tree! Gonna wait until next year for my tree! It's the only mango my 14 year old daughter will eat and also my wife's favorite mango hands down! Not my #1 but I'll tell you this I would never kick her out of bed!
7 gallon honey kiss for sale. Look in the for sale section
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SunWorshipper,
If you love both Edward and Kent, I would guess you'd like Honey Kiss. It's not hard to believe its a seedling of Kent - there are similarities. It sits on the milder end of mango flavor wheel: sweet, sunny, mellow, vaguely "tropical." It's difficult for me to say which is the best tasting out of Edward, Kent and Honey Kiss... they're all good ones... but I'd probably take Honey Kiss.
It's got a very "agreeable" character of flavor that I could imagine being likable to most and objectionable to very few.
That being said, I have never heard anyone say its their favorite mango or go insane over it.
Now Maha Chanok, on the other hand... :) :D ;D
I will tell you this, last year I had MANY different mangos and I would rate the Honey Kiss right up there with the best of them! In fact I have been waiting for over a year now to get a tree! Gonna wait until next year for my tree! It's the only mango my 14 year old daughter will eat and also my wife's favorite mango hands down! Not my #1 but I'll tell you this I would never kick her out of bed!
had to read this like 3 times to figure out you were referring to the mango...or were you? ;)
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My girlfriend and I just tried Honey Kiss this past week for the first time. The flavor is very good. Being a smaller, late season tree, it is one I am taking a close look at to buy at some point. The only thing holding this one up is size of the fruit. That to us was no problem at all. Rather have the HK any day over a much bigger Harper.
We have tried a lot of mango types this year but she has not had a MahaChanok yet. It is the only mango I tasted the first bite and woke up when I was done with the seed. Didn't share a bit of it.
So I bought a tree.
My soon to be 96 year old mother's words after tasting her first Glenn. "This is called a Glenn right. You won't need to plant this one."
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He Rob
I saw the Venus and providence trees at Walter 's they were loaded with fruits is the Honey Kiss as productive? I like to get a late replacement for Keitt which I don't care for.
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3 of the best mangos I've ever eaten have been an Edwards, Maha Chanok and a Mallika (perfectly ripened Mallika...which is hard to obtain it seems).
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He Rob
I saw the Venus and providence trees at Walter 's they were loaded with fruits is the Honey Kiss as productive? I like to get a late replacement for Keitt which I don't care for.
Honey Kiss is super productive. More so than Providence or Venus.
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He Rob
I saw the Venus and providence trees at Walter 's they were loaded with fruits is the Honey Kiss as productive? I like to get a late replacement for Keitt which I don't care for.
Honey Kiss is super productive. More so than Providence or Venus.
And after tasting one Sunday I can say I'm happy to have one in the ground since it was one of the best mangoes I've eaten this year. I hope my Redlands location won't impact the taste vs Zills location
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Another of the better formed mangos off my Angie tree ripened and I tried it today - thumbs down still.
I now have a solid tasting plan to pursue this season - thanks all for giving me such great input! I'll seek them out Maha Chanok, Honey Kiss & Venus for tasting. Other than taste, any other comparisons of the tree growth habits or disease tolerance that you think are significantly different between the three?
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Another of the better formed mangos off my Angie tree ripened and I tried it today - thumbs down still.
I now have a solid tasting plan to pursue this season - thanks all for giving me such great input! I'll seek them out Maha Chanok, Honey Kiss & Venus for tasting. Other than taste, any other comparisons of the tree growth habits or disease tolerance that you think are significantly different between the three?
Honey Kiss is the most compact grower and very good production. It is late season, which is also good. Venus seems to have a good structure and not real vigorous, while it is tough to tell as the variety is not that old, Venus looks to have the same or similar growth habit as the Mahachanok. Venus does seem to set fruit young and looks to be a good producer, primarily late season. Mahachanok, also a good producer, can have an extended season, ranging from mid-June into August. All three seem to have very good disease resistance.
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Another of the better formed mangos off my Angie tree ripened and I tried it today - thumbs down still.
I now have a solid tasting plan to pursue this season - thanks all for giving me such great input! I'll seek them out Maha Chanok, Honey Kiss & Venus for tasting. Other than taste, any other comparisons of the tree growth habits or disease tolerance that you think are significantly different between the three?
Honey Kiss is the most compact grower and very good production. It is late season, which is also good. Venus seems to have a good structure and not real vigorous, while it is tough to tell as the variety is not that old, Venus looks to have the same or similar growth habit as the Mahachanok. Venus does seem to set fruit young and looks to be a good producer, primarily late season. Mahachanok, also a good producer, can have an extended season, ranging from mid-June into August. All three seem to have very good disease resistance.
In short, get all 3!! ;)
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Thanks Rob - that's a very succinct summary of the non-flavor characteristics of the trees!
Gunnar - would love to get all three, but my landscape is in a state of one in means one out currently=) However, you do bring me to my next question. Anyone care to enlighten me on topworking? What are the pros/cons of yanking out a tree and replacing it with a different one vs. using the root system of the existing Angie tree to graft a variety I like better onto it? I suppose then I do have the option of creating a cocktail tree and squeezing in more than one variety. In particular, anyone got a graphic showing the preferred locations for doing that? I could imagine taking a tree back to the main trunk and grafting on to there, or cutting back to scaffolds and grafting to each scaffold. I suppose my primary concern about the second approach would be ending up with a tree that is too tall to frost protect, or one where a freeze might knock the tree back below the graft point. Thoughts?
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Not everyone has the same tastes and I totally respect your opinion that angie is not the mango for your yard.
I just picked the last angie from my tree. I will let the picture do the talking!
(http://s14.postimg.cc/sqo0dsl65/Monster_Angie.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/sqo0dsl65/)
To others that have planted an angie tree without tasting and are now having doubts or your tree has produced its first fruits this year which disappointed, I think angie is top tier and I recommend giving it a chance to prove itself.
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My Angie's tend to be quite clean and disease free. I also think they are very tasty. That being said, they do have a certain flavor that some do not appreciate. If you don't like it, definitely replace it. Better yet, top work it :)
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I have 2 angies planted out, and they aren't going anywhere :-).
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Thanks Rob - that's a very succinct summary of the non-flavor characteristics of the trees!
Gunnar - would love to get all three, but my landscape is in a state of one in means one out currently=) However, you do bring me to my next question. Anyone care to enlighten me on topworking? What are the pros/cons of yanking out a tree and replacing it with a different one vs. using the root system of the existing Angie tree to graft a variety I like better onto it? I suppose then I do have the option of creating a cocktail tree and squeezing in more than one variety. In particular, anyone got a graphic showing the preferred locations for doing that? I could imagine taking a tree back to the main trunk and grafting on to there, or cutting back to scaffolds and grafting to each scaffold. I suppose my primary concern about the second approach would be ending up with a tree that is too tall to frost protect, or one where a freeze might knock the tree back below the graft point. Thoughts?
As you sort of already eluded to, the top-working idea, while a bit more complicated, is more efficient in the long run (provided you get the scions to take) because you can use the root system that is already getting established. Plus, as you said, it allows you the freedom to have a few varieties together on one tree. As I understand it, a good method is to cut the pug the tree, and graft onto the waterpouts (green shoots). You can graft scions onto any part of the tree you wish, so it's up to you to use your best judgment...one consideration is the higher up the grafts are, the more likely you are to lose that variety if the limb snaps in high winds.
I am planning on trying this soon, but I have no experience with this as of yet.
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cbss - that's a very nice looking fruit! Wish mine looked like that. I posted an update on flavor in the http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.0) thread. Tried to post a pic, but without success. Suffice it to say, mine look nothing like yours. What kind of soil is your tree planted in? In the other thread, we're wondering if they hate sugar sand of central FL - perhaps optimized for Miami's soil conditions? I suspect that my tree is producing off flavored fruits for some reason. Has the same kerosene like flavor I've only experienced in a purchased Jean Ellen fruit previously.
gunnar - thanks for the comments on topworking. I watched some videos on it yesterday, and it seems within my ability level to give it a go. I've done some grafting on other plant species before with reasonable success. More interestingly, I had expected that it would need to be done in spring, but from searching other forum posts, it sounds like giving it a pugging right after fruit harvest and grafting to the watersprouts has a good chance of success. That would be ideal - I'll know after I've harvested all the fruit if I'm willing to give it any further time to improve. If I decide it isn't a keeper (which is looking strongly likely) then I can try my hand at topworking. If I fail, then I can plant a new tree in spring, which is when I would plant anyhow if I decide to wholesale replace, since in my marginal climate an early spring planting works out best for new trees. But if I succeed, I could have a good sized tree by the end of next summer rather than a new tree that has just gotten its root system established. Doesn't seem to be a downside to trying. The only one I can think of - does the rootstock in any way impact the flavor profile or disease tolerance of the scion? Wouldn't want the off flavor I hate to be transmitted into the new variety, or for the new variety to be incapable of producing clean fruit. I expect that the flavor would not be impacted, since that is counter to the purpose of grafting good flavors onto a different rootstock, but I don't know about disease tolerance aspects. Usually rootstocks in other tree types I've got experience with are selected specifically for features such as disease resistance. What happens when there is a middleman (e.g. Angie) between the original rootstock & the new variety in regard to flavor & disease resistance?
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I have three distinct soils in my yard. My mangos are planted in muck soil next to a canal, with high organic content and moisture retention. Mostly, my mangos do not color up well and look pretty ugly. Luckily, the flavor of the mangos I have grown are not diminished by their appearance and seems to be equal to fruits I have tasted, some of which were grown in the other soils and locations of South Florida. Most of my angies were severely beaten with the ugly stick. The picture above was the best of the lot but it will not get much more color even though it was soft on the tree before picking.
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Well I will put my 2 cents in. Good thing there are so many varieties of mangoes. There is one for every taste and then some. I am a believer in grow what you like and don't depend on opinions of others as to how good any fruit is or isn't. Try as many different varieties as you can and plant what you like. As far as Angie goes, I rarely get to sell any because I have customers that pre buy them every year. I personally have had no issues as taste or production.
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cbss - thanks for the info on your growing conditions. Wish I lived closer to south Florida so I could compare the flavor of my Angie mangos to someone else's, to figure out if I dislike them generally, or if my tree is producing unrepresentative fruit for some reason.
Bendersgrove - I agree tasting first is best - so subjective! Not being close enough to South FL to taste as many as I'd like, I took a risk on the trees I planted. Of 4 mangos planted, I like 3, so I'm happy with that hit/miss ratio. So one didn't work out, no big deal, part of what makes gardening an adventure:)
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I have three distinct soils in my yard. My mangos are planted in muck soil next to a canal, with high organic content and moisture retention. Mostly, my mangos do not color up well and look pretty ugly. Luckily, the flavor of the mangos I have grown are not diminished by their appearance and seems to be equal to fruits I have tasted, some of which were grown in the other soils and locations of South Florida. Most of my angies were severely beaten with the ugly stick. The picture above was the best of the lot but it will not get much more color even though it was soft on the tree before picking.
The description of Angie on the Fairchild site mentions that they do not like excessive nitrogen or water. Soil with high organics and moisture could work against that, perhaps.
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Tasted even better than it looked.
Later season Angie
(http://s3.postimg.cc/cmzt0ff8f/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cmzt0ff8f/)
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Wow - wish my Angie's looked like yours jc!
Mangomandan, I had forgotten about that comment about water supply in the description. So what happens to mangos that get too much water? too much nitrogen should not be an issue - haven't given any in ferts, and soil is low in organic matter. However, the tree does receive regular irrigation, irrigation doesn't seem to be bothering my other mango trees it I wonder if this variety is just sensitive to extra water? Would that cause bad flavor? I always thought that too much water might wash out the flavor, not produce a strong unpleasant flavor.
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Sorry, Sunworshiper. I remembered the description from the Fairchild web site, but I never heard Dr. Campbell or anyone else go into the whys or wherefores.
It's a good possibility that your Angie fruits will taste better in future seasons. The last one I bought from a beloved vendor was very good, far better than the sad little ones on my own tree.
That said, my Angie tree is going away today, donated to a good cause. I'm planting a Venus in that spot.
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Mangomandan - thanks for sharing your experience! I'm going to let my tree finish its crop, but if I don't get one good fruit out of the around 25 fruit it held this year, I'm going to select a replacement. This is its second year producing, and last years 4 fruit were bigger, and less mottled looking, but had the same off flavor. I was willing to chalk that up to first year fruiting, but I'm not willing to give it another full season on the off chance the fruit would be significantly different.
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Remember, this hobby is a marathon not a sprint...
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Sorry, Sunworshiper. I remembered the description from the Fairchild web site, but I never heard Dr. Campbell or anyone else go into the whys or wherefores.
It's a good possibility that your Angie fruits will taste better in future seasons. The last one I bought from a beloved vendor was very good, far better than the sad little ones on my own tree.
That said, my Angie tree is going away today, donated to a good cause. I'm planting a Venus in that spot.
I know it was one of the selected tons for his new home orchard. Among reasons was it can be kept compact and it's early so fruit will be cleaner than late season
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It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...
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(http://s21.postimg.cc/4grocl6gz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4grocl6gz/)
This mornings lineup. The entire top row are Angie's. I sprayed plant doctor on all the trees in my yard a couple of times during flowering, but I don't think that made too much of a difference.
Bottom row for comparison, left to right, coconut cream, lemon zest, ice cream, Mallika.
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It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...
The last 50% of this years crop should be better and much more representative plus... Think how the remaining fruits will benefit from more sunshine, higher temps and more time for the tree to put resources into them.
Even if it is the last 30% of your Angie fruits, you will get good fruits this year. You will know in 3-6 weeks and you can post results.
My take is your tree is in a borderline production year. Despite the 25 fruits, it is not yet in comfortable fruiting mode. Next year should be better and if it were my tree I would give it next year's fruiting to see return on investment. IOW no chopping in 2015.
Don't go by what you have seen w your other mango trees which moved smoothly (effortlessly?) into fruiting. With my trees some did and some did not.
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I think people are missing Sun's pount here. I dont think she is judging the Angie that it is a bad variety in geberal but more not a variety for her in terms of taste. I have had the opportunity to sample Angie from varioys years and various sources (with one to go), albeit not a ton of them, and while I dont consider it a flawed variety, I also do not c onsider it a variety I want in terms of taste. I would relate it to a Carrie or Julie o r Valencia Pride, many love it but it is not a taste for me.
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Those are nice looking fruit! There are a couple of nicely formed Angie's still holding, I will report on those when they ripen. Rob is right, I don't think this variety is bad in general, but I think I may be discovering it isn't right for me. I bought the tree the year they were released at Fairchild, so tasting beforehand wasn't an option. Now that it is fruiting, I think the flavor may be too strong for me. With room for only a limited number of trees, another variety may suit me better. My work schedule is keeping me too busy to get down to south FL and find other Angie's to taste compare to. But if any of you are in my area (Orlando) I invite you by to sample one of mine and offer an opinion on if it has the "normal" flavor or if it seems off. Would love to know for sure if my fruits are having an off year, of if I just personally don't like the flavor.
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I spray all year long, sometimes nutritional, sometimes copper/sulfur/ Plant Doctor . The first year it set fruit, I didn't spray fungicide and it set a heavy crop that i removed at about golfball size to promote vegetative growth.
It is indeed a marathon:) jc, do your tree set well without spraying? Mine sets zero fruit without spraying, which is another of the reasons it is on the bubble. I don't enjoy the task of spraying...
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Nice to know it can set without spraying in some years.
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I travel to Titusville every weekend to my girlfriends house. Which is pretty close to you when I am in the East Orlando area.
Just had a major raccoon attack on my Fairchild but if I can get one ready to pick I will trade you for an Angie.
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Sounds great wgphil - sent you a pm.
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Don't cut Angie down just yet! All the ones from my tree had a strange fermented taste this year until today. I finally had one that was very good. Also the exteriors have all been very clean growing in Miami limestone soil.
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Don't cut Angie down just yet! All the ones from my tree had a strange fermented taste this year until today. I finally had one that was very good. Also the exteriors have all been very clean growing in Miami limestone soil.
More testimony that in some young trees the second half of the harvest can be better than the first half
We will mark you down in the "no chop" column
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Or more support that the Angie is just plain and simple inconsistent.
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Or more support that the Angie is just plain and simple inconsistent.
Not all Angies are created equal. Not all Hadens, Lemon Zests or any mango tree you buy. Maybe its the root system it developed in the pot. Probably a bunch of factors. Maybe its the fertilizer and water it was fed when it was a one gallon size.
Also probable that some mango varieties have high consistency in the 3 gallon tree you buy at the nursery while some are more vulnerable to being good, medium or poor quality
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I disagree with that comment. I have had Lemon Zests grown at a number of locations and over many years, it is very consistent.
The Angies i have sampled have been all over the board in terms of taste and disease resistance. Growing location can have minor subtleties but bottom line, its an Angie and it should not show what i would consider large differences in taste and quality. What fertilizer it was given in a 1 gal pot will not influence its taste. ??? ::)
note: edited to correct android spelling errors
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I agree that they are inconsistent. The last few I pulled of of my tree ( ate one just now) were truly excellent. At Harrys last weekend, one of my Angies was pushing for 1st place. That being said, a good number of my earlier fruit this year were so-so and in no way any competition for my LZ, CC, Mallika, or J12. Add to that, I have had Angie's from Harry's place that were excellent, and a few that were just plain awful.
Maybe consistency will come with maturity.
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I took a look at your property on google. If that is your Angie next to the fence, look on the other side. That yard has a very nice blooming crepe myrtle touching roots with your mango. Looks like some kind of bloom builder as it is full of blooms. If that was applied while your fruit were on...
I think you are getting too much fertilizer with fruit on. Others that are better at mango cultivation know more about that.
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I took a look at your property on google. If that is your Angie next to the fence, look on the other side. That yard has a very nice blooming crepe myrtle touching roots with your mango. Looks like some kind of bloom builder as it is full of blooms. If that was applied while your fruit were on...
I think you are getting too much fertilizer with fruit on. Others that are better at mango cultivation know more about that.
Crape Myrtles do not need any bloom booster for them to bloom profusely. They do fine on their own without any assistance. In addition, there are very few people in the scope of the population taht would even know you can purchase such a "fertilizer".
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Very interesting hearing others' experiences of Angie being inconsistent. Does help to know it isn't just me. A few more fruit hanging on the tree, but so far, taste continues to be off.
wgphil, the mango tree that is closest to the crepe myrtle is actually my Cogshall, which is fruiting well this season. The Angie's roots likely do extend out into the lawn past the borders of the bed they are in. So I expect that it does get some fertilizer intended for the lawn. But my understanding was that excess fertilizer could cause more vegetative growth than is optimal, rather than impacting fruit flavor. Folks care to weigh in on the extent to which extra fertilizer can impact flavor? Doesn't seem to be a problem with any of my other 3 trees that are in similar situations, but maybe some varieties are more sensitive?
zands, if the treatment the tree got when it was young can impact its later flavor characteristics, does that mean if I were to topwork this tree that those factors would continue to negatively effect the new variety I topwork on? FWIW, I bought the tree from Fairchild the year they released them, so I would hope they know how to treat their nursery stock well.
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And tasting for a replacement begins...thanks to squams excellent mail order service, I was able to obtain a Maha Chanok, Venus and Fairchild to taste. First to ripen for tasting - the Maha Chanok...well the Angie has just had its death sentence I think! I let my husband have the first taste, and he made a hilarious face and proclaimed "holy moly that's the sweetest mango I've ever tasted! Starts kind of coconutty and tart and then explodes with sweetness!" - I was most amused watching him. What did I think? One of the best mangos I've ever had! Very complex flavor, incredible sweetness near the skin, a good balance of sweet and subacid, flesh was firm and smooth with no fiber or mushiness - just outstanding! Not sure I taste cola syrup exactly, but do understand the comparison. There was absolutely no resinous or bitter flavor. I thought the cut skin had a slightly piney scent, but there was no pine in the flavor. There is a distinctive scent to the fruit overall not unpleasant, fruity with a hint of earthiness, hard to pin down, and mostly stood out to me as smelling different than it tasted. Here's a pic of the fruit
(http://s27.postimg.cc/l1nqtwadb/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l1nqtwadb/)
And the inside
(http://s12.postimg.cc/fr9yjlayh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fr9yjlayh/)
Can't see how either of the other varieties I have yet to taste will be able to top this! I think I've found a winner for my palate! If anyone would be willing to provide me with budwood, please send me a pm.
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Next up - Venus.
(http://s27.postimg.cc/4vej4rywv/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4vej4rywv/)
(http://s8.postimg.cc/6k5xstz8h/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6k5xstz8h/)
This one was interesting to experience, but not a favorite. It had a very sour smell before cutting, so hard for me to tell when perfectly ripe, it was slightly past peak I think, but not by much. Flavor is quite variable, from piece to piece. Some chalky spots by the stem, and one bite in the middle had a fizzy bit. There was a musky scent to it I didn't like. The flavor was very sweet, in some places kind of like juicy fruit, and in others like the heavy syrup canned peaches come in. Overall, interesting, but not one I want to plant.
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zands, if the treatment the tree got when it was young can impact its later flavor characteristics, does that mean if I were to topwork this tree that those factors would continue to negatively effect the new variety I topwork on? FWIW, I bought the tree from Fairchild the year they released them, so I would hope they know how to treat their nursery stock well.
Being treated optimally when small and young (even one gallon size) will help later as far as vitality and strength. Should help it taste good. If the tree looks strong (vitality) and your only problem is the fruit then top working would be OK. Just my opinion.
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And tasting for a replacement begins...thanks to squams excellent mail order service, I was able to obtain a Maha Chanok, Venus and Fairchild to taste. First to ripen for tasting - the Maha Chanok...well the Angie has just had its death sentence I think! I let my husband have the first taste, and he made a hilarious face and proclaimed "holy moly that's the sweetest mango I've ever tasted! Starts kind of coconutty and tart and then explodes with sweetness!" - I was most amused watching him. What did I think? One of the best mangos I've ever had! Very complex flavor, incredible sweetness near the skin, a good balance of sweet and subacid, flesh was firm and smooth with no fiber or mushiness - just outstanding! Not sure I taste cola syrup exactly, but do understand the comparison. There was absolutely no resinous or bitter flavor. I thought the cut skin had a slightly piney scent, but there was no pine in the flavor. There is a distinctive scent to the fruit overall not unpleasant, fruity with a hint of earthiness, hard to pin down, and mostly stood out to me as smelling different than it tasted. Here's a pic of the fruit
(http://s27.postimg.cc/l1nqtwadb/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l1nqtwadb/)
And the inside
That is one ugly MC! Thankfully it was tasty.
(http://s12.postimg.cc/fr9yjlayh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fr9yjlayh/)
Can't see how either of the other varieties I have yet to taste will be able to top this! I think I've found a winner for my palate! If anyone would be willing to provide me with budwood, please send me a pm.
That is one ugly MC! Thankfully it was tasty.
(http://s7.postimg.cc/nc2gusg9z/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/nc2gusg9z/)
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That Venus was overripe. By your description something was off. Any mango with that "fizz" should be chucked.
Even the Mahachanok has the looks of being a little overripe. Color should be more uniform and kacking any translucency.
JC - as long as you dont let them get too ripe, post a picture of the in s ide of those beauties.
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Zands, thanks for the input! The tree seems quite healthy - here's a pic. Started flushing growth last week that all looks very healthy.
(http://s14.postimg.cc/xtqyc7wvh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xtqyc7wvh/)
Jc - those are some beautiful fruit! The one I had was ugly, but it was one of the very last ones squam had for the season, so I was happy to have it. As a test fruit, knowing it still tastes awesome despite external blemishes I see as a plus. If you think this side is ugly, you might be horrified by the other side - lol.
(http://s11.postimg.cc/93l9d0nz3/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/93l9d0nz3/)
Rob, thanks for the input on the ripeness state. I agree, the fizz is a sign of fermentation. With the MC it was hard to tell when it was optimal, I'm still learning that skill. But a point in its favor for me - I know that even if slightly overripe, it still tastes great! I've read that people like them mature green too, so does seems to fit my criteria of not having a wide range of ripeness where it tasted good.
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That maha was grown in loxahatchee groves. Not uncommon for the fruit to look hideous there
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(http://s11.postimg.cc/93l9d0nz3/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/93l9d0nz3/)
Now that is about as ugly a Maha I have ever seen. Yes, the good news is that the interior of the fruit does outlast the exterior. I assume this is a non-sprayed fruit? I don't spray but even my most blemished Mahas are not quite this blemished.
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haha for once I agree with rob :-). Both mangoes looked overripe. Don't give up on venus until you've tried a few. It's a fantastic mango.
That Venus was overripe. By your description something was off. Any mango with that "fizz" should be chucked.
Even the Mahachanok has the looks of being a little overripe. Color should be more uniform and kacking any translucency.
JC - as long as you dont let them get too ripe, post a picture of the in s ide of those beauties.
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We bought our first Maha from Alex earlier in the season and it looked just like that. It also is the only one I didn't share with the girlfriend. I started to, but ran out of mango before I realized it was gone. Very good mango.
The Angie we bought from him were perfect. The ones we bought at the fruit and spice park were nasty.
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Thanks for chiming in on the growing location squam - hope you didn't mind me posting a picture of your fruit. I appreciate you sending me one of your last ones, and I wasn't bothered by its appearance at all. If a variety can produce excellent flavor even on the individual fruits that are ugly, I think that's pretty awesome. Also, I should comment that any overripeness in the fruits I tried is due to my own lack of skill - not squam's fruit. I have a hard time telling the optimal time to cut into a new variety I haven't had before. I did a better job of guessing when to open the second Maha that squam sent. Appearance on the outside was similar, and amazingly, flavor was even better being a bit less ripe - a feat I didn't think was possible really, as that first one was excellent tasting! No pics of the second one, as I was too busy devouring it=) The second one I thought smelled like jackfruit a bit. A very unique fragrance, nice, but hard to pin down to a likeness. Still have a fairchild to taste, but am leaning strongly towards the Maha as my variety replacement...it is now one of my new mango favorites=)
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Tasting Fairchild
(http://s4.postimg.cc/612vzp1mx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/612vzp1mx/)
(http://s10.postimg.cc/6ztsl6mqd/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6ztsl6mqd/)
I had had one in a previous year and was unimpressed, but this one was great! It doesn't have special flavors, but is a wonderful all mango flavor which every bite consistently good. If you want a plain mango of good quality, this is a good choice. I considered it, but decided I'd rather go for the Maha's more unique flavor - so I'll be topworking my tree with it.
The Angie has finished fruiting, and the late seasons fruits were slightly better, but still not good to my tastebuds. Now I have an excuse to do some grafting:)
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I'm conflicted when it comes to replacing my Angie. The tree is looking so damn healthy. I guess I'll give it another year to see if the fruit improves in flavor. The Neelam, however, that one's got to go! I think I'll add a Mahachanok and also something for the late season.
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What was the flavor of your Angie's like John? We're some better than others in your tree?
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What was the flavor of your Angie's like John? We're some better than others in your tree?
They seem to have gotten progressively better as the season wore on. Also, I had one forum member who had tasted some very good Angies taste one of mine, and he said its flavor was "washed out" in comparison. So I think mine have the potential to improve in the next few years. I just want them to be sweeter with less off-flavor near the skin and maybe more fully colored on the tree. We'll see! It's not a bad mango so far, just not top-five.
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Sounds like yours show some promise to improve. Hope that next year they are better for you!
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As you may recall, I decided to top work my Angie, converting to Maha Chanok. The grafts I made in the fall sat all winter without growing. In the end, I had only one survive, but that's all I need:) It is very vigourous and is on its third growth flush. Here's the union
(http://s32.postimg.cc/l7zbuxl0x/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l7zbuxl0x/)
I funneled all growth through the graft by pinching out all growing tips elsewhere. Once it was growing well, I chopped the tree back, leaving 2 weak branches as nurse branches. I started letting water shoots grow. Each time I tip the graft growth to shape its structure, I'll use the pruned tip to graft to a watershoot until I can get 2 more to take. Did the first one yesterday:
(http://s32.postimg.cc/mmpyxr0kx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mmpyxr0kx/)
Here's the tree overall. The topmost tip is the growth is the graft that took.
(http://s32.postimg.cc/tty3cuwmp/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/tty3cuwmp/)
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Sounds like you're becoming a grafting maven.
I have exactly two new leaves on the 15 gallon Maha I planted many months ago.
I bet you will be dining on Maha long before I will. ::)
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My Angie tree has set a decent amount of fruit this year, and they're starting to size up. We'll see how they do with flavor. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. (But I did plant a Maha and Providence last summer.)
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Hope yours starts growing leaves soon mangoman! I have to say, I'm very impressed with the concept of top working. The vigour that an established root system gives the new graft is incredible - outpaces growth of a new planting so substantially!
John, would love to hear if your Angies are better this year. I'm envious you had room to plant more trees! I'm out of room for more trees, it is now a one in one out deal - lol.
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I thought I'd post an update. My Angie converted to Maha Chanok is doing great. All the nurse branches have been removed, all leaves here are above the graft lines:
(https://s1.postimg.cc/hm5yums7v/2017-08-05_11-06-53_4536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hm5yums7v/)
Here's a close up of the initial graft done in August 2015:
(https://s2.postimg.cc/cx6nq1wwl/2017-08-05_11-07-53_4538.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cx6nq1wwl/)
It is putting out a nice growth flush now, and is large enough that I expect it to hold fruit next year=)