Topworking cogshall

[IndigoEmu]

Indigoemu - I have Pickering, Manilita, Maha Chanok & this cogshall I'm top working. As you noted it is essential to cold protect, or trees will be killed outright. That pretty much means limiting to varieties that can be kept small. Now that my trees are established all I need is c9 old fashioned Xmas lights to protect from light frosts. For a hard freeze I put up a mini hoop house over each tree - made of plastic sheeting and pvc pipe with a trouble light inside - those have successfully protected at 26 degrees for multiple hours and below 32 for 10 hours straight. If you search the cold protection threads I think some of my pics are still around of that setup. If I could only have one tree here it would be the manilita - it stays smallest and is most productive. The fruit is pretty and is consistently good flavored. Obviously can't compete with something like ST for flavor, but miles better than a grocery store mango.

Manilita sounds like a nice variety for me. As someone who’s only ever eaten grocery store mangos (and finds them delicious) I think I’ll be perfectly happy with any mango whose taste falls between “better than a grocery store mango” and “every other mango variety”.

Unfortunately with a quick google search it definitely seems like an uncommonly grown mango. Any idea where I might be able to source one? I hope I don’t have to go all the way to Fairchild for one - but I will!

[sunworshiper]

Hmm, I did indeed get my Manilita from Fairchild, and I don't see any obvious other sources. Anyone else know if they are for sale anywhere else? If you want to try your hand at grafting I could share budwood.

[skhan]

Indigoemu - I have Pickering, Manilita, Maha Chanok & this cogshall I'm top working. As you noted it is essential to cold protect, or trees will be killed outright. That pretty much means limiting to varieties that can be kept small. Now that my trees are established all I need is c9 old fashioned Xmas lights to protect from light frosts. For a hard freeze I put up a mini hoop house over each tree - made of plastic sheeting and pvc pipe with a trouble light inside - those have successfully protected at 26 degrees for multiple hours and below 32 for 10 hours straight. If you search the cold protection threads I think some of my pics are still around of that setup. If I could only have one tree here it would be the manilita - it stays smallest and is most productive. The fruit is pretty and is consistently good flavored. Obviously can't compete with something like ST for flavor, but miles better than a grocery store mango.

Manilita sounds like a nice variety for me. As someone who’s only ever eaten grocery store mangos (and finds them delicious) I think I’ll be perfectly happy with any mango whose taste falls between “better than a grocery store mango” and “every other mango variety”.

Unfortunately with a quick google search it definitely seems like an uncommonly grown mango. Any idea where I might be able to source one? I hope I don’t have to go all the way to Fairchild for one - but I will!

Its usually in stock at ZHPP so most retail nurseries should have it or at least have access to it.
You can try requesting it from your local nursery.
I have a tree and like the fruit, not a flavor bomb but I still appreciate it.

If you still have trouble finding one, let me know next time you're down south and I'll pick up one for you.

[Brev Grower]

Why don't you try the Angie mango tree, either stand alone or grafted onto a rootstock. I just saw a friends tree he has had for 5-6 years and its only a tad over 6 feet tall. I think he said he got 30 or 40 mangoes from it. I personally have not tasted it yet but I hear it's very good. Angie is supposed to be an improved Carrie. If you like Carrie - It's one of my favorites. Probably much better than manilita. Rosiegold can also be kept small. Kind of one dimensional but i like the flavor, sometimes has a hint of vanilla to my palate. Both of theses mangoes are early producers where as the Honey Kiss is later season. Just a thought...

E.

[skhan]

Why don't you try the Angie mango tree, either stand alone or grafted onto a rootstock. I just saw a friends tree he has had for 5-6 years and its only a tad over 6 feet tall. I think he said he got 30 or 40 mangoes from it. I personally have not tasted it yet but I hear it's very good. Angie is supposed to be an improved Carrie. If you like Carrie - It's one of my favorites. Probably much better than manilita. Rosiegold can also be kept small. Kind of one dimensional but i like the flavor, sometimes has a hint of vanilla to my palate. Both of theses mangoes are early producers where as the Honey Kiss is later season. Just a thought...

E.

IMO...(had to say it)
Carrie has a more intense flavor than Angie, if it was solely based on that I would take Carrie over it.
The things that Angie has going for it is that its a small tree, firmer fruit, prettier fruit.
If you like that flavor profile I'd consider getting Val Carrie or Edgar (bigger trees though)

[IndigoEmu]

Angie definitely seems more available than manilita. I’m quite a fan on how the latter tree looks in subworshipper’s past photos of their tree though. (Speaking of which, do you have any current photos of the tree?) Can’t say I’d be too anxious in grafting as I’ve barely touched on research when it comes to doing so.

Size would probably be the definitive factor in my choosing. Seems Angie is mostly called a “semi-dwarf” as opposed to a complete dwarf...in assuming that means growth habit without pruning. How often do mangos require pruning to keep small? (6-8ft?)

[Brev Grower]

You want to prune back every year once they reach a certain size(6-8 ft or whatever). I was surprised at how small and compact the Angie was. It was in a yard possibly 1/4 mile from the ocean. The only true dwarf I've seen is the Julie mango here in Fl. But even the Julie reaches 30ft. in the islands. Pickering is dwarfish, but I have one that is reaching 8-9 ft in about 4 years from planting at 3gal and 2ft high. Mango trees actually do pretty well even with severe pruning. You may lose a season of production if too severe (as in cold damage), but they will come back if properly taken care of. Just make sure you keep the tree warm in freezing weather above the graft site, maybe even a lower branch.
E.

[Brev Grower]

Hey Sun worshiper, what is this coffin grave method of grafting you are talking about?

E.

[sunworshiper]

Hey Sun worshiper, what is this coffin grave method of grafting you are talking about?

E.

The one described in this thread http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29250.msg330751#msg330751 looks really effective.

[sunworshiper]

Angie definitely seems more available than manilita. I’m quite a fan on how the latter tree looks in subworshipper’s past photos of their tree though. (Speaking of which, do you have any current photos of the tree?) Can’t say I’d be too anxious in grafting as I’ve barely touched on research when it comes to doing so.

Size would probably be the definitive factor in my choosing. Seems Angie is mostly called a “semi-dwarf” as opposed to a complete dwarf...in assuming that means growth habit without pruning. How often do mangos require pruning to keep small? (6-8ft?)

I technically have Angie - it was top worked to become my Maha Chanok. You can search my previous comments on its characteristics. After some great discussion, the conclusion seems to be that it had good flavor on calcerous south fl soil, but terrible flavor on central fl sand. So if your soil is sandy, I wouldn't choose Angie.  And size wise for me From smallest to largest tree size
Manilita, Pickering, Angie, Maha Chanok, cogshall
I'll try to post a new pic of the manilita over the weekend. Pickering and manilita are about the same volume, but shaped different. Pickering is low and wide and manilita is a little taller, but narrower. Both are easy to keep under 6' tall. Angie I could maintain at 8' easily and keep to 6' with difficulty. Maha Chanok is new but based on habit should be easy to maintain at less than 8'. Cogshall is difficult to keep to 8' and impossible to keep at 6'. It would I think be easy to maintain at 10'.

Pruning aggressively to maintain a small tree means one major pruning each year after harvest and then tipping to force branching after each growth flush except the last of the season. There are usually 1-3 growth flushes a year in central fl after fruit harvest and before winter causes dormancy. So not a big time commitment to keep a single tree pruned. Works out to 2-3 prunings per year. 

[IndigoEmu]

Angie definitely seems more available than manilita. I’m quite a fan on how the latter tree looks in subworshipper’s past photos of their tree though. (Speaking of which, do you have any current photos of the tree?) Can’t say I’d be too anxious in grafting as I’ve barely touched on research when it comes to doing so.

Size would probably be the definitive factor in my choosing. Seems Angie is mostly called a “semi-dwarf” as opposed to a complete dwarf...in assuming that means growth habit without pruning. How often do mangos require pruning to keep small? (6-8ft?)

I technically have Angie - it was top worked to become my Maha Chanok. You can search my previous comments on its characteristics. After some great discussion, the conclusion seems to be that it had good flavor on calcerous south fl soil, but terrible flavor on central fl sand. So if your soil is sandy, I wouldn't choose Angie.  And size wise for me From smallest to largest tree size
Manilita, Pickering, Angie, Maha Chanok, cogshall
I'll try to post a new pic of the manilita over the weekend. Pickering and manilita are about the same volume, but shaped different. Pickering is low and wide and manilita is a little taller, but narrower. Both are easy to keep under 6' tall. Angie I could maintain at 8' easily and keep to 6' with difficulty. Maha Chanok is new but based on habit should be easy to maintain at less than 8'. Cogshall is difficult to keep to 8' and impossible to keep at 6'. It would I think be easy to maintain at 10'.

Pruning aggressively to maintain a small tree means one major pruning each year after harvest and then tipping to force branching after each growth flush except the last of the season. There are usually 1-3 growth flushes a year in central fl after fruit harvest and before winter causes dormancy. So not a big time commitment to keep a single tree pruned. Works out to 2-3 prunings per year.

That’s good to know about Angie, thanks! My soil is indeed 98% sand. Probably not too different than Oviedo.

I’ve researched a bit before about Pickering as it seems to be a fairly well known smaller tree, but backed away from the idea as I wasn’t sure how well it would perform in the area. How well does yours produce/how’s the taste?

My interest in mango has definitely been rekindled.

[sunworshiper]

Pickering grows well, slow and steady. It is less consistent than Manilita with its fruiting habits, it flowers every year, but sets less reliably. I usually have a few, but not a lot.  The fruit is good, with a slight coconut flavor and no subacid element - it is all sweet. I suspect it's flavor is different on sand than on calcerous soil. While it is still in the good range  for me it doesn't match other people's descriptions of fruit quality. Also, the fruit are hideous here - not at all pretty like ones I've seen others post. The biggest consideration tho is that raccoons love them - they absolutely have to be protected with plastic clamshells or raccoons will get all of them. Even with the plastic shells, raccoons still get some. Raccoons on the other hand completely ignore the Manilita. No idea why, but I don't protect those, and never had a one taken by raccoon - weird right?

[sunworshiper]

Here's what the manilita looks like today. It is just under 6' tall.

[IndigoEmu]

Very attractive tree. Probably set on this variety!  I wonder how much nitrogen is available to the tree from all those perennial peanuts; it certainly isn’t upset about them!

How’ve you been feeding your mangos?

[sunworshiper]

I think you'll be happy with a manilita, it's a really nice tree. I don't think the peanut adds much nitrogen - it sometimes looks yellow itself and the areas under the citrus tree are noticeably greener after I fertilize it. It does help to suck up extra water from irrigation though, the mangos don't need it, but all the other plants do. the mangos get one fertilizer application after harvest. I use Lukas nursery's 4in1 - they formulated for the local soil here and it works great. That's the only nitrogen they get. I also do iron drenches in late summer and a couple foliage sprays a year to provide additional minors.