The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Cookie Monster on April 18, 2012, 09:21:58 PM
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Has anybody had success growing this mango in Florida or SoCal? It's an Indian cultivar reported to be of exceptional quality and having a dwarf stature.
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I know Zill has been propagating it. Supposed to be a poor producer in Florida.
I'm always skeptical of the performance of mangoes introduced from India here.
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I believe I tried it at Smather's place (Four Fillies farm) years ago. I think Crafton said it was introduced to Florida by Frank Smathers. It was green skinned and almost white fleshed and wasn't very good. Had some resinous flavor and not overly sweet. It didn't have fiber but the flesh was firm. It was totally green on the outside. Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale). That's the same as Tommy Atkins. I don't rememer the tree as being any different in size than the rest of the trees there. But, I am sure they were all well pruned. I think "exceptional quality" might not apply to this cultivar. Of course, the fruit I had might have been an aberation, but Crafton didn;t say that it was when we tried it.
Harry
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I believe I tried it at Smather's place (Four Fillies farm) years ago. I think Crafton said it was introduced to Florida by Frank Smathers. It was green skinned and almost white fleshed and wasn't very good. Had some resinous flavor and not overly sweet. It didn't have fiber but the flesh was firm. It was totally green on the outside. Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale). That's the same as Tommy Atkins. I don't rememer the tree as being any different in size than the rest of the trees there. But, I am sure they were all well pruned. I think "exceptional quality" might not apply to this cultivar. Of course, the fruit I had might have been an aberation, but Crafton didn;t say that it was when we tried it.
Harry
This is one of the problems that a lot of the direct introductions from India have had here. While they may be much acclaimed in India, their flavor is often very different here grown in our soil. Alphonso is the poster-child for this but a number of other Indian cultivars have experienced this problem too. On top of that they usually have issues with disease and production as well.
Mallika is one cultivar that has been able to buck this trend. Baneshan too.
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The other issue is that there are various sub-classes of the Indian mangoes. Each area of India will have their own version of the cultivar (eg, Langra vs Langra Benarsi, Kesar vs Jumbo Kesar, etc).
The Jehangir tree that I saw at Fairchild Farm had an obvious dwarf habit. The fruit is also supposed to be yellow (not green).
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It's funny that you mentioned this mango because I stopped by Excalibur today and noticed they had it for sale. I think they just got it recently because I've never noticed it before. I may go back this weekend and buy one now.
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What does Richard say about the Jehangir?
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Didn't get a chance to ask Richard but I was told it was white fleshed. From Harry's description of it being resinous and you mentioning it's dwarf, it sounds like an excellent tree. I like the stronger 'spicy' flavored mangos and I think a white fleshed one would be cool to have.
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Interesting. The mango book (http://books.google.com/books?id=oloEhPYqE8QC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=Jehangir+mango&source=bl&ots=nnZ_yiZL5X&sig=owZ2HtAscYzcADRr6uj9oRimK5w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vouPT-vFLqHd0QG66uyfBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Jehangir%20mango&f=false) says, "Developed in Kodur, the hybrid 'Swarnajehangir', combining the high quality of 'Jehangir' and the attractive colour of 'Chinnaswarnarkha'..."
Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale). That's the same as Tommy Atkins.
Harry
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OK. That sounds similar to Allampur Baneshan.
Didn't get a chance to ask Richard but I was told it was white fleshed. From Harry's description of it being resinous and you mentioning it's dwarf, it sounds like an excellent tree. I like the stronger 'spicy' flavored mangos and I think a white fleshed one would be cool to have.
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I believe I tried it at Smather's place (Four Fillies farm) years ago. I think Crafton said it was introduced to Florida by Frank Smathers. It was green skinned and almost white fleshed and wasn't very good. Had some resinous flavor and not overly sweet. It didn't have fiber but the flesh was firm. It was totally green on the outside. Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale). That's the same as Tommy Atkins. I don't rememer the tree as being any different in size than the rest of the trees there. But, I am sure they were all well pruned. I think "exceptional quality" might not apply to this cultivar. Of course, the fruit I had might have been an aberation, but Crafton didn;t say that it was when we tried it.
Harry
Glad you tried it Harry. Thanks for the info.
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Murahilin, do you think we can start a thread that people here can add varieties of Mangoes that have a "dwarf" or small growing habit? It would be great to have a thread that we can refer to for people looking to either Plant one in a Container or just want to plant a "smaller" size mango in the yard.
With SO many different ones coming out all the time...its hard to keep up. Would be great to have a list we can refer to.
Thanks!!
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Anybody know what 'Pasand' means? I guess there is also a Jahangir Pasand cultivar :-).
As for the dwarf trees, the list of commonly propagated dwarf trees is pretty small (Julie, Ice Cream, Pickering, maybe a couple others). The term 'condo mango' doesn't necessarily indicate that a tree has a natural dwarf stature. Rather, it means that the tree is 'manageable' through pruning. So, a 'condo mango' can be easily pruned to keep small and will stay reasonably productive in that state.
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hehe google skills pay off. I found this about the Jehangir:
"Fibreless fruit can be eaten in unripe form while still green as they lack acidity. Big in size, the fruit weighs about 600 gms. The tree has regular, heavy cluster bearing habit, however growth is not vigorous."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_Agricultural_Farm,_Taliparamba#Jahangir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_Agricultural_Farm,_Taliparamba#Jahangir)
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Anybody know what 'Pasand' means? I guess there is also a Jahangir Pasand cultivar :-).
Don't have any idea what it menas but I have a Imam Pasand that I grafted from material obtained through the RFVC. It hasn't fruited as of yet. Supposedly an excellent Indian sub-continent mango. I am assuming it might be of Pakistani origin as Imam, I believe, refers to a religious leader in the Islamic religion. So, might be a name of a particular Imam or who knows what else.
Harry
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OK. I guess there's also a Chotta Jahangir :-).
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Don't have any idea what it menas but I have a Imam Pasand that I grafted from material obtained through the RFVC. It hasn't fruited as of yet. Supposedly an excellent Indian sub-continent mango. I am assuming it might be of Pakistani origin as Imam, I believe, refers to a religious leader in the Islmaic religion. So, might be a name of a particular Imam or who knows what else.
Harry
Since India and Pakistan have about the same population of muslims I don't know if the fact that it has imam in the name would help differentiate its origin.
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Thanks Jeff :)
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Jeff...possible meaning for Pasand?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111208171855AANRwfM (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111208171855AANRwfM)
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Since India and Pakistan have about the same population of muslims I don't know if the fact that it has imam in the name would help differentiate its origin.
Would have never thought that to be true. I thought they mostly left many years ago when Pakistan and Bangladesh were formed. You live and learn. This obviously makes my assumption rather worthless. Thanks.
Harry
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For a while India actually had more Muslims than Pakistan but recently Pakistan has surpassed India 178 million to 177 million.
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Has anybody had success growing this mango in Florida or SoCal? It's an Indian cultivar reported to be of exceptional quality and having a dwarf stature.
Jeff,
Have you ever thought of a Amarapali Mango? It is a new variety from Indian and is Dwarf and is a cross from Dashehari and Neelam.
Very good eating mango!!
Joe.
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BTW, another recent planting which I think I got through Jeff is the Indian culitvar Kesar. While the tree is tiny it bloomed and set a few fruits without any spraying. The fruits look perfect so far with no anthracnose whatsoever. So this may be a more fruitful and resistant Indian culitvar here. I am hoping anyway. Alphonso is a bust so far at my house. Langra Beanrsi is in suspended animation....no growth to speak of and a terrible problem with scale and sooty mold. Alanpur Baneshan grows well, fruits well, but the fruit tend to crack before full maturity. Neelam and Mallika do great. Although both have lighter crops this year than in any other year I have expereinced. FYI
Harry
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Nope....never heard of it....but my Alphonso so far seems to be a champ! A billion
babies and fast growth - hope the flavour follows along......
MFang
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This is one of the problems that a lot of the direct introductions from India have had here. While they may be much acclaimed in India, their flavor is often very different here grown in our soil. Alphonso is the poster-child for this but a number of other Indian cultivars have experienced this problem too. On top of that they usually have issues with disease and production as well.
Mallika is one cultivar that has been able to buck this trend. Baneshan too.
Oh no! I've got a big, healthy Alphonso in my back yard that still has not fruited! Is there some reason to think that when it finally produces that the fruit might be sub-par. The descriptions of it online are totally delicious-sounding...
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This is one of the problems that a lot of the direct introductions from India have had here. While they may be much acclaimed in India, their flavor is often very different here grown in our soil. Alphonso is the poster-child for this but a number of other Indian cultivars have experienced this problem too. On top of that they usually have issues with disease and production as well.
Mallika is one cultivar that has been able to buck this trend. Baneshan too.
Oh no! I've got a big, healthy Alphonso in my back yard that still has not fruited! Is there some reason to think that when it finally produces that the fruit might be sub-par. The descriptions of it online are totally delicious-sounding...
Disappointing is the word I would use to describe the flavor of it here in Florida, at least compared to what the expectations are.
Zill actually puts something on the tags relating to how the flavor is different here.
Alphonso was one of the first mangoes that the USDA tried to introduce from India....I think they made multiple attempts and they generally ended in failure/disappointment.
The issue boils down to the difference in soil and climate. My understanding is that in India Alphonso is grown in more of a 'clay' soil, which is quite different from what we have in south Florida. It also seems to get a lot of fungus and mold here.
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I think the other big issue is the difference in climate. From my limited understanding, mangoes from Southern India do well in FL, while mangoes from Northern India do well in socal. I also remember Dr Campbell saying that he's had success growing the more finicky mango trees with his low nitrogen approach.
Disappointing is the word I would use to describe the flavor of it here in Florida, at least compared to what the expectations are.
Zill actually puts something on the tags relating to how the flavor is different here.
Alphonso was one of the first mangoes that the USDA tried to introduce from India....I think they made multiple attempts and they generally ended in failure/disappointment.
The issue boils down to the difference in soil and climate. My understanding is that in India Alphonso is grown in more of a 'clay' soil, which is quite different from what we have in south Florida. It also seems to get a lot of fungus and mold here.
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Has anybody had success growing this mango in Florida or SoCal? It's an Indian cultivar reported to be of exceptional quality and having a dwarf stature.
tasted one today!
it was good!!!
reminded me of carrie somewhat (but much different)
I'm a fan for sure
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Has anybody had success growing this mango in Florida or SoCal? It's an Indian cultivar reported to be of exceptional quality and having a dwarf stature.
tasted one today!
it was good!!!
reminded me of carrie somewhat (but much different)
I'm a fan for sure
Pictures or it didn't happen. ;) ;D
Please describe the flesh color and texture.
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Has anybody had success growing this mango in Florida or SoCal? It's an Indian cultivar reported to be of exceptional quality and having a dwarf stature.
tasted one today!
it was good!!!
reminded me of carrie somewhat (but much different)
I'm a fan for sure
Pictures or it didn't happen. ;) ;D
Please describe the flesh color and texture.
I didn't realize it was worth taking a photo
Have you never tasted this one ?
Flesh was white yellow, the skin was green and covered with lesions (very ugly fruit), like a large round Carrie I guess)
The seed was anything but thin (it bulged out)
Flesh was copious , delicious fiberless, had the piney flavor some sissies detest ;)
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I've enjoyed the Jehangirs I've had off my tree in Lox this year
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Here's a quick shot of this mango from the Fairchild mango book from the early 1990's. Note the eating quality rated at that time was from Fair to Good.
(http://s24.postimg.cc/l6wx8oq4h/WIN_20150721_100835.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l6wx8oq4h/)
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While the tree seems to be one of the most stunning mango trees in terms of color, disease resistance, growth habit/shape and just overall looks, I have heard that the fruit is basically average at best with some degree of fiber. As far as the fruit description goes, this is only what I have been told by both locals and people from India so I cannot confirm any accuracies to this. I will say, as with any variety, taste is subjective and there are no rights or wrongs.
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I've enjoyed the Jehangirs I've had off my tree in Lox this year
our fruit club bought a few boxes of fruit from your farm (after I recommended your services to the president)
so the Jehangir I tasted came from your tree!
here is a pic of the fruit sliced open...sorry lighting is poor...The fruit was getting close to being over ripe (it had a bruised spot)...but 95% of the flesh was delicious.
(http://s10.postimg.cc/9lvw5gh91/IMG_2442.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9lvw5gh91/)
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I've enjoyed the Jehangirs I've had off my tree in Lox this year
our fruit club bought a few boxes of fruit from your farm (after I recommended your services to the president)
so the Jehangir I tasted came from your tree!
here is a pic of the fruit sliced open...sorry lighting is poor...The fruit was getting close to being over ripe (it had a bruised spot)...but 95% of the flesh was delicious.
(http://s10.postimg.cc/9lvw5gh91/IMG_2442.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9lvw5gh91/)
So flesh color looks to be more of a pale yellow versus "white". Other than around the seed, was there any fiber?
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the fruit was bruised, and probably close to being over ripe,
the flesh was much lighter than the photo shows.
the pulp around the seed was much yellower...
not too much fiber around the seed.
I've enjoyed the Jehangirs I've had off my tree in Lox this year
our fruit club bought a few boxes of fruit from your farm (after I recommended your services to the president)
so the Jehangir I tasted came from your tree!
here is a pic of the fruit sliced open...sorry lighting is poor...The fruit was getting close to being over ripe (it had a bruised spot)...but 95% of the flesh was delicious.
(http://s10.postimg.cc/9lvw5gh91/IMG_2442.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9lvw5gh91/)
So flesh color looks to be more of a pale yellow versus "white". Other than around the seed, was there any fiber?
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Here's a quick shot of this mango from the Fairchild mango book from the early 1990's. Note the eating quality rated at that time was from Fair to Good.
(http://s24.postimg.cc/l6wx8oq4h/WIN_20150721_100835.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l6wx8oq4h/)
Well when they said this sucker had a big fat seed they weren't messing around.
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While the tree seems to be one of the most stunning mango trees in terms of color, disease resistance, growth habit/shape and just overall looks, I have heard that the fruit is basically average at best with some degree of fiber. As far as the fruit description goes, this is only what I have been told by both locals and people from India so I cannot confirm any accuracies to this. I will say, as with any variety, taste is subjective and there are no rights or wrongs.
the fruit was not really fibrous at all.
I would have to disagree with your description, it's not an average fruit at all.
it's always best to taste a fruit for yourself to formulate a valid opinion, don't just rely on what you've heard from others.
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While the tree seems to be one of the most stunning mango trees in terms of color, disease resistance, growth habit/shape and just overall looks, I have heard that the fruit is basically average at best with some degree of fiber. As far as the fruit description goes, this is only what I have been told by both locals and people from India so I cannot confirm any accuracies to this. I will say, as with any variety, taste is subjective and there are no rights or wrongs.
the fruit was not really fibrous at all.
I would have to disagree with your description, it's not an average fruit at all.
it's always best to taste a fruit for yourself to formulate a valid opinion, don't just rely on what you've heard from others.
Thats why I said it was what I heard (even Alex's assessment in 2012, see above, was well less than stellar but things can and do change) and made the disclaimer (last sentence of my post abouit being subjective).
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it took about 5 times of eating coconut cream to finally get a good one!
so i never let a bad first impression of a mango fool me!
and don't forget, there's always a chance the person you are relying on for a description, is biased.
for instance, I love mangoes that remind me of carrie, fairchild, tyler, ice cream, jakarta, etc....
that's why it's good to know a bit about the person's psychology, when you are asking them for a description (or their opinion) of a fruit.
While the tree seems to be one of the most stunning mango trees in terms of color, disease resistance, growth habit/shape and just overall looks, I have heard that the fruit is basically average at best with some degree of fiber. As far as the fruit description goes, this is only what I have been told by both locals and people from India so I cannot confirm any accuracies to this. I will say, as with any variety, taste is subjective and there are no rights or wrongs.
the fruit was not really fibrous at all.
I would have to disagree with your description, it's not an average fruit at all.
it's always best to taste a fruit for yourself to formulate a valid opinion, don't just rely on what you've heard from others.
Thats why I said it was what I heard (even Alex's assessment in 2012, see above, was well less than stellar but things can and do change) and made the disclaimer (last sentence of my post abouit being subjective).
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it took about 5 times of eating coconut cream to finally get a good one!
so i never let a bad first impression of a mango fool me!
and don't forget, there's always a chance the person you are relying on for a description, is biased.
for instance, I love mangoes that remind me of carrie, fairchild, tyler, ice cream, jakarta, etc....
that's why it's good to know a bit about the person's psychology, when you are asking them for a description (or their opinion) of a fruit.
While the tree seems to be one of the most stunning mango trees in terms of color, disease resistance, growth habit/shape and just overall looks, I have heard that the fruit is basically average at best with some degree of fiber. As far as the fruit description goes, this is only what I have been told by both locals and people from India so I cannot confirm any accuracies to this. I will say, as with any variety, taste is subjective and there are no rights or wrongs.
the fruit was not really fibrous at all.
I would have to disagree with your description, it's not an average fruit at all.
it's always best to taste a fruit for yourself to formulate a valid opinion, don't just rely on what you've heard from others.
Thats why I said it was what I heard (even Alex's assessment in 2012, see above, was well less than stellar but things can and do change) and made the disclaimer (last sentence of my post abouit being subjective).
Totally agree...oh, and I really like Fairchild.
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surprised you haven't tasted it already?
maybe it's got some sort of downfall I'm not aware of? and that's why it's not being planted in groves or sold by nurseries?
the fruit did look susceptible to disease...(or at least discoloration of skin)...
still, i'd grow this one for sure, especially if it's a dwarfish tree.
not sure if Squam has anymore fruit of this type for sale, but i'd be tickled to get a few....with some other similar flavored mangoes (fairchild, carrie, etc.)
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I think there might be literally one fruit left on that tree.
It's definitely susceptible to scab in loxahatchee. Difficult to judge maturity as a result and have to feel fruits individually. In west palm beach it will probably come out totally clean like everything else, but that tree hasn't begun producing yet.
Tree is dwarf-ish. Compact growth habit. This year was promising in terms of production.
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I had 2 this year grown on Pine Island. Never had this before. The flesh was all white, the skin was green with white specks. Had a resinous green taste. The taste was phenomenal.
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I’ve tasted it several times at our mango tastings and it was excellent. It was sweet and had a pale white/yellow color with excellent Indian resin flavor component. I grafted it onto Leo Manuel’s tree and it is growing well. Many people at the Mango tasting(last year) liked this Mango.
Simon
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I have not gotten to try this yet. Definitely not widely available yet.
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I have not gotten to try this yet. Definitely not widely available yet.
Have you had Alampur Baneshan?
This is pretty similar.
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A long time ago. Don't remember well.