Author Topic: Greenhouses for tropical fruit  (Read 10024 times)

stressbaby

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Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« on: April 30, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »
This thread is for anyone with a greenhouse or greenhouse-like structure in which they grow tropical fruit.  If you grow your plants in a structure, post details of your structure.  What do you like?  What would you do differently?

I have a 24' x 20' aluminum framed tempered glass, unattached GH.  If I were to do it again, I wouldn't use tempered glass, I'd go with twin-wall or triple-wall PC.  I have two 24K BTU Empire direct vent heaters.  One is on a micro-voltage thermostat.  The other is on a Bartlett GHK12x2 climate controller.  I also have a two zone mister controller, which is combined with the climate controller to fire misters intermittently in the summer.  The mister is also used for the cuttings table.

The north wall has 1" of foamboard insulation.  Elsewhere, in the winter I add a layer of 3 mil PE film on the inside for added insulation.  In the summer this is replaced with 50% Aluminet shade cloth inside.

I have a deep well on our property and originally this was my water source.  Unfortunately I found the hardness to be far too severe for tropical plants.  I added an RO system but it was still insufficient.  So about 3 years ago I added gutters and a rainwater collection system.  Now I store ~150 gal of water collected from roof runoff, and it is delivered with a demand pump and bladder tank.  The water is filtered and goes to the misters as well.  The RO is there for backup, but its TDS is still pretty high so I use the rainwater whenever I can.

The potting bench is a wash sink recycled from an abandoned gas station restaurant.  My dad helped me build this puppy.






Hopefully this link to my Photobucket album works: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v149/stressbaby/Greenhouse/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 09:21:15 PM by stressbaby »

Cookie Monster

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 09:38:41 PM »
My beefness! That thing ralks! No stressing when you have that tropical retreat in the winter.
Jeff  :-)

MangoMan2

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 10:10:41 PM »
Beautiful greenhouse you have. Very nice job.

MangoFang

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 11:05:19 PM »
Yeah, stressbaby, a labor of love!  Incredible job! Wow........
Wish you the best - have you started your "wish" list yet?
I think you've already got a bunch of potted stuff, right?

So....when's the big move in?


FangMango

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 11:16:53 PM »
Great set up! So that's how you do it? :o I think you and OhioJay and CoPlantNut should get together and write a book on the subject. I bet there's lots of plant hobbyists and even arboretums that want to raise tropicals in termperate climates but don't know how to go about doing it in the best way. You could save people lots of trial and error and money by telling them about your own errors and what you think is best way to go about it.
Do you mind my asking how much it costs to heat such a greenhouse? Is this a hobby only for the wealthy or can a small middle class family afford heating such a structure? Isn't it advantageous to have an attached greenhouse so that the house and greenhouse can share some of the captured heat and sun reflection?
Oscar

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 11:17:41 PM »
Should've built it larger! What a great GH!

lycheeluva

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 11:25:31 PM »
absolutely incredible robert. and i love how youhave npothing around the greenhouse for miles. how big is your piece of land.

stressbaby

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 07:38:45 AM »
Gerry, we have 12 acres.  That pasture behind the fenceline in the second pic is not ours, the lady rents it out to a guy who runs cattle on it.

Oscar, it is hard to say exactly what the cost is because the GH is on the same propane as our house.  Clearly propane is the main cost.  Through practice and trial and error I've "got my system" for winterizing and insulating in the fall and opening the thing back up in the spring.  Building the GH attached probably does save some $ in terms of heat but carries its own risks and maybe hidden costs...I am hoping Jay will post his pics here, he would be the best one to comment on building an attached structure.  His GH is impressive.

One thing I would do differently next time is I would drop a 1500 gal rainwater cistern in the ground inside.   ;)

Post your pics, Jay and others!

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 09:03:54 AM »
Hi Stressbaby :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :),

Thanks for starting this topic...You and father built a master piece...congrat's on the job well done!!! I really mean it 8) 8) 8) 8)

Next, try to build a conservatory like those in the Kew Garden ;D ;D ;D

I want to learn every thing there is to know about Greenhouses and building them! I hope everyone share's there tips and advices...Please do ;)

The main reason is that I want to germinate and keep my tropical trees safe during winter, till they are big enough to take to my Grandma's house in Calheta! My current location get very strong cold winds and I'm always worried about them!

« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 09:08:02 AM by Jackfruitwhisperer69 »
Time is like a river.
You cannot touch the same water twice, because the flow that has passed will never pass again.
Enjoy every moment of your life!

puglvr1

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 09:49:46 AM »
AMAZING Greenhouse...isn't great Dad was able to help you. A labor of love for sure! You guys did a terrific job...you can guys can drive all over and build those for other people to help pay for your growing and never ending Fruit addiction,lol...

lkailburn

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 10:12:58 AM »
Glad you started this thread! Very very impressive greenhouse you have there! Hope to see others post in as well

-Luke

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 10:25:01 AM »
Labor of love?  Robert(Stressbaby) was an inspiration and big help to me when I began my project.  He was one of the very first people I contacted early in the design and thought phases and was kind and patient enough to put up with all of my questions.  So, again...thanks!

I researched greenhouses and sunrooms for a great while before finally choosing a sunroom design.  I wanted a beefy frame that could hold up against our harsh Ohio winters.  I went with double paned, insulated glass and it does a wonderful job.  I love the clear view and all the light that comes thru with glass.  Even though it was more expensive, I would definitely go glass again.  I would choose a different company for the actual frame that would provide better window, door systems, and a host of other issues I've come across in the last 6-7 years.

Robert chose a stand alone GH whereas I opted to attach it to my home.  Lot of positive reasons for this such as thermal gains, one less footer, one less kneewall, and one less GH wall.  The negative that trumps anything positive is moisture.  Most of you know this story so I will not go thru that again here.  If I did things over again...a stand alone is the way to go.

I heat with two natural gas heaters.  Oscar, I believe it may cost me an extra $150 or so per month over my normal home heating.  It was actually lower than we normally believed it would be.  I have two manual skylights.  A greenhouse controller monitors temperature and humidity.  If the temperature starts to rise inside and hits the first set point, it will open a window...only one is motorized.  The next set point will open up the first of two vents in the top of the GH, then the second if needed.  In the extreme, my fogger will kick on which will lower the temperature as well.  Humidity is also controlled and kicks on my fogger if the humidity falls below the set point.  I do not have this operational during the winter since the windows are mostly closed and the heaters produce enough humidity.  There are newer, low pressure foggers now that produce a dry fog which would be beneficial.  But these are incredibly expensive for now.

Like Robert...I built this myself.  I had a buddy do the foundation/footer, block kneewall, and patio.  My wife, dad, and brother pitched in at various times to help on the structure.  A very long, stressful summer.

My structure is 22' x 26'.  If I could have gone bigger, I certainly would have.  The ceiling height in back is approximately 13' while 9' in front.  I have since put several plants directly into the ground...jackfruit, mango, bananas, achachairu, madronos.  Everything else are in containers which get moved from one location to another on my whim.

This is my buddy Randy who is a stone mason by trade.  He did my footer, kneewall, and patio.  I was gofer.  Gofer block, gofer mortar, gofer beer.


Started raining and got cold as hell when we poured the patio.  We had to add color and stamp a pattern during all of this as well.  One of the most miserable days I can recall.  Driving the concrete buggy hauling the mix from truck to patio was fun for a little while.  Being cold and wet quickly sucked the fun right out of that.


What a miserable looking pair we made!  The job was finished.  Wet, cold, and bone tired.  I really hate concrete.  Randy did all the work on that and my back still ached!


Here I am studying the blueprints and instructions like I knew what the hell I was doing, what the hell I have done, and what the hell I yet had to do.  I knew enough to be dangerous to myself and others.  I believe the realization was hammering home that I had a very long summer ahead of me.  At least I wasn't curled up in a ball crying...yet.


This is my buddy Harold that I goat-roped into helping out for the day.  His knowledge and building talent falls even below mine yet he jumped in with both feet.  We both have college degrees, yet even after measuring something a half dozen times, we'd stand back, look, and say "WTF?!"  So much for that computer education!


My brother helping me install the roof glass.  My wife wasn't strong enough to lift up the panels by herself.  They were heavy.  Hot as hell and the sun reflecting off the glass damn near cooked and blinded us at once.


That's me putting some finish trim on top.  I was a hammering fool that day...emphasis on "fool".


Structure itself is complete.  The tree on the far end was cut down soon after the pic.


Would I do it again?  Probably easier, cheaper, and much less stress to just move to Thailand!!!

CoPlantNut

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 10:30:17 AM »
Beautiful setup, Stressbaby...  I wish I had enough room for a greenhouse.

But I don't have a suitable spot for a greenhouse in my yard, so I've been growing plants under lights in my basement.  My growing area is a 12' by 15' plastic-lined room with lights on a light mover:





To maximize use of the light, I have no aisles or spaces between the plants under the lights.  Instead, each of my benches is on casters so that I can move them as needed to create aisles.  This makes it really hard to take pictures in there- you only ever see the very tops of plants.  As an example, in that last photo you can see my Sapodilla 'Silas Woods', babaco papaya, Australian beach cherry, lemon guava, naga jolokia peppers, and lots of miracle fruit plants but it is virtually impossible to tell.

One of the features of a true greenhouse that I have found I don't want to live without is the ability to spray water on the plants without worrying about what else is getting wet. My plant room has a slightly-sloped, rubber-lined floor that drains all the water to the basement drain.  I use a hose to water and spray plants and don't have to worry about puddles.

Many of my tropical fruit plants spend the summer outside; all of these plants were in my basement plant room until just recently:



Pictures of how I built the plant room are available at:  http://photobucket.com/cprc

   Kevin
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 04:14:12 PM by CoPlantNut »

lycheeluva

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 10:35:15 AM »
nice and funny post Jay. great pics.

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 10:37:08 AM »

Ohiojay+ Kevin...thanks for taking the time to post!!!

Keep them coming fellow member's!!!!
Time is like a river.
You cannot touch the same water twice, because the flow that has passed will never pass again.
Enjoy every moment of your life!

CoPlantNut

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 10:53:25 AM »
Beautiful greenhouse, Jay...  I'm jealous of the room you and Stressbaby have to grow plants!

I should have included in my first post:

Would I do it again?  Yes.  What would I do differently?  Make it larger, but I've already made this as large as I can possibly fit in my basement.  This is actually the 3rd incarnation of a plant room in my basement, and I've tried to fix all the issues I had with the previous set-ups.

While I don't have to pay to heat mine (the room actually helps heat my house during the winter) I have to pay for the light, which runs about $60-$90 a month, depending on which lights I'm running.

   Kevin

jason (palo alto)

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 01:17:23 PM »
I just completed my carport greenhouse a few weeks ago with my neighbors help
Pictures
I'm located in a typical california coastal climate, so won't need to do that much cooling and I'm hardly even considering heating.
I've got a 3 speed greenhouse fan for cooling 1k/2k/3k cfpm with thermostat for controlling the fan.
I'm not planning on running heat in the winter so it will get down to the 30's. Still need to wire up the electrical...  ::)

However, I haven't yet figured out the watering situation since this greenhouse thing is new to me. I'm thinking of running misters while the fan is on for evaporative cooling and increasing humidity. I am planning on running a timed drip-type system with sprayers for overhead watering. I'm not sure if the misting line is overkill.
Should I also run a humidistat and control misting/watering that way?

Any good resources on home greenhouse environment controls?

Where is the best place to purchase home greenhouse supplies? I want better than the super basic cheapo stuff and I can't afford the high end professional stuff.
I purchased the fan from ACF Greenhouses and was satisfied with the service from them.


stressbaby

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 07:55:18 PM »
Nice posts!
Kevin, your setup in my opinion (Gerry's, too, for that matter) take just as much consideration, care and effort as a regular greenhouse!

I just completed my carport greenhouse a few weeks ago with my neighbors help
Pictures
Should I also run a humidistat and control misting/watering that way?

Any good resources on home greenhouse environment controls?

Where is the best place to purchase home greenhouse supplies? I want better than the super basic cheapo stuff and I can't afford the high end professional stuff.
I purchased the fan from ACF Greenhouses and was satisfied with the service from them.

Jason, Jay uses a humidistat, I do not.  I have misters but they are for cooling and are controlled with the climate controller based on temperature only.  YMMV, as they say.
As for GH supplies, including controllers, I absolutely swear by Hummert http://www.hummert.com/. They sell and service Bartlett controllers and I think that they actually own Phytotronics now.  Now granted, I don't live far away, but when I had a Bartlett issue a few years ago one of the techs actually drove 2 hours to my house to fix it!  I had to send in the Phytotronics controller for a repair last year and it was handled very professionally and quickly.  Basically, I buy all my stuff from Hummert if they have it.

samuelforest

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 08:24:33 PM »
Coplantnut, how much does it cost you per mont of electricity for the lights? I'm really wondering.

CoPlantNut

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Re: Greenhouses for tropical fruit
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 12:26:28 AM »
Coplantnut, how much does it cost you per mont of electricity for the lights? I'm really wondering.

Right now I'm running 1800 watts of light, and the two circuits that supply my plant room are drawing just under 2000 watts total with the fans and humidifier running.  Running the lights 15 hours per day uses 30 KWH per day; 900 KWH/month which runs me $60.  I have more lights I can turn on when the plant room is really full in the early spring when I'm starting vegetables; at a maximum it costs me about $90 per month.

During the winter, the plant room saves me about $20/month on gas costs for heating my house; during the summer it probably adds $20/month to my air conditioning costs.

I figure it is probably about the same cost per year as operating a greenhouse of equivalent size in my climate.  But with the plant room in my basement, I can have perfect 15-hour-long cloudless days with temps at night in the upper 60s and daytime highs of 85 degrees-- perfect ultra-tropical conditions.  Some plants go nuts in conditions like this- miracle fruit bear more or less continuously this way, for example. 

There's always a catch though; I can't grow anything more than 6' tall.

   Kevin