"Polynesian Produce Stand" on Ebay Using My Photos - UPDATE!

[Kevin Jones]

I noticed today that the Ebay store "Polynesian Produce Stand" is using several of my Cedar Bay Cherry photos in their ad.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CEDAR-BAY-CHERRY-Eugenia-Reinwardtiana-FRUIT-TREE-Potd-Live-Sml-Starter-Plant/362429246126?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D221d3600366b423ebf89850908219460%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D362429246126%26itm%3D362429246126&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5c572c08-23ff-11e9-8de9-74dbd1803f52%7Cparentrq%3A9b2b3bc11680a9c503af0023ffea41d2%7Ciid%3A1

These are photos I posted here on the forum:

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=30151.0


Anybody know these folks? Looks like they are in Hawaii.
I'm not so much against someone using my photos as I am against them not asking permission or providing some sort of compensation for their use.
They can reach me here at this address to discuss this topic:

jones@dbtech.net

Cedar Bay has something to say...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHG91mBtvKs

kj

Thanks.

Kevin

[SoCal2warm]

I don't see what's so wrong with using your pictures, provided they are selling plants that actually look like the picture.
Sometimes a seller will use someone else's picture if they had neglected to take a picture when their plants were in flower or had fruit hanging on them. Or sometimes they'll use someone else's picture before they have an opportunity to take their own, for example if the plants are not big enough to produce fruits yet.

Using another seller's pictures can sometimes be one of the signs of a scam, but it is not always necessarily so.

[spaugh]

If you want to protect your photos you have to put your name or bama farms or whatever on them.  Its a pain but at least others wont steal them.

A lot of the plant sellers are selling tissue cultured plants and dont actually have mature plants.

[ricshaw]

This is clearly wrong on many issues.  The main one being it is borderline fraud because it looks like Ceder Bay Cherry is the seller. 
Enforcement is up to Kevin.  I would start with submitting a complaint to eBay.
As far as using your copyright pictures without your permission, this is wrong but done all the time. Don't expect any compensation for their use... but you should expect credit for there use, which is usually leaving your name or company's name on the photo (which it looks like they did).

[HIfarm]

I don't see what's so wrong with using your pictures, provided they are selling plants that actually look like the picture.
Sometimes a seller will use someone else's picture if they had neglected to take a picture when their plants were in flower or had fruit hanging on them. Or sometimes they'll use someone else's picture before they have an opportunity to take their own, for example if the plants are not big enough to produce fruits yet.

Using another seller's pictures can sometimes be one of the signs of a scam, but it is not always necessarily so.

Using someone else's photos is basically stealing.  It is different if you have their permission to use them.  At the VERY LEAST, they should be citing where they got the pics from, giving credit to the owner.

Oops, Rick slipped in before my response ...

[Tropheus76]

Have you messaged him? I have messaged back and forth in the past and he usually answers pretty quick.

[Kevin Jones]

Yes I sent a message today. No reply yet.

kj

[fruitlovers]

Been dealing with this kind of problem for many years. Unfortunately the only way to stop it is to put your copyright information smack dab in the middle of the photo. I don't like ruining photos in that way and opt instead for putting copyright info on an edge of the photos, where it's less obtrusive. Unethical people can still crop the information out of the photo, but at least they will get an inkling they are doing something wrong. More often they will opt to leave the information in, and at least you will get credit for the photo.
When contacted most of these photo thiefs will either ignore you or pretend like they are not doing anything wrong. You can see that even in this thread there are people that believe that stealing photos is perfectly fine?  So unless you are willing and able to take legal measures against these types of thiefs they will not usually remove their photos. Contacting the webhost usually helps. But eBay is notoriously bad.

[Cookie Monster]

I wouldn't call it "stealing" photos. More like "borrowing" them :-). I've had at least one place use my photos, but I've never really cared. As long as it's not a picture of my wife in her undies or whatever and as long as I'm not making money on the photos, it's OK by me. Would be nice, though, if they used their own photos so that the buyer is 100% certain of what they are getting...

[Kevin Jones]

Cedar Bay has something to say...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHG91mBtvKs

kj

[savemejebus]

It's certainly something you could take issue with (in a legal action/demand letter) if you thought it was worth your time. I've represented clients on both ends of this, and it usually results in some sort of nuisance payment being made to avoid litigation under the copyright laws. Of course, that assumes you have a defendant you can identify (fairly easy if they're in the USA as you'd just need to order one of their products to get their info) and with the funds to pay something. There are some photographers out there that probably make a decent living suing/threatening to sue businesses that are using their images.

[Kevin Jones]

I wouldn't mind a little bartering.
Maybe store credit in exchange for use of my photos.

kj

[Cookie Monster]

Are images / photographs "implicitly" copyrighted, ie, if I upload a random picture from my camera to instagram with no claim of copyright, is it a violation of copyright law for someone to utilize it?

It's certainly something you could take issue with (in a legal action/demand letter) if you thought it was worth your time. I've represented clients on both ends of this, and it usually results in some sort of nuisance payment being made to avoid litigation under the copyright laws. Of course, that assumes you have a defendant you can identify (fairly easy if they're in the USA as you'd just need to order one of their products to get their info) and with the funds to pay something. There are some photographers out there that probably make a decent living suing/threatening to sue businesses that are using their images.

[Tony714]

It's not legal to borrow someone's picture w/o permission especially using it for business.
There are buyers buying products base on picture.  Products wont or never look like picture like pet, handmade.  They have its own value.
Normally, i don't trust or buy anything from these companies.

[Bush2Beach]

Yes I sent a message today. No reply yet.

kj

You’d get a faster reply if your on the hook to buy something. Otherwise persistence will have to be your middle name.
Polynesian Produce Stand aka 7_heads
Jeff Crawford  (808) 638-5540

[savemejebus]

Are images / photographs "implicitly" copyrighted, ie, if I upload a random picture from my camera to instagram with no claim of copyright, is it a violation of copyright law for someone to utilize it?

It's certainly something you could take issue with (in a legal action/demand letter) if you thought it was worth your time. I've represented clients on both ends of this, and it usually results in some sort of nuisance payment being made to avoid litigation under the copyright laws. Of course, that assumes you have a defendant you can identify (fairly easy if they're in the USA as you'd just need to order one of their products to get their info) and with the funds to pay something. There are some photographers out there that probably make a decent living suing/threatening to sue businesses that are using their images.

Other than a use that qualifies as "fair use," yes it would be a violation of copyright law. Given that the pictures are being used for commercial use, that doesn't qualify as fair use. I am sure there are hundreds of millions of images online that are being utilized in a way that is actionable copyright infringement, but the vast majority of those are likely not financially worthwhile for the owner to pursue.

I have no doubt there are lawyers out there getting rich shaking down companies left and right for $5,000 here, $2500 there, etc. 

[Kevin Jones]

Received a message from them today and made this proposal.
Here is our exchange so far:

Dear jonesmedia,
Aloha Kevin,
OK what can I do for you sir
Sent from my iPhone

7_heads


Hi,
I noticed you are using 3 of my Cedar Bay Cherry Photos on your Ebay ad.
That's my hand holding the plant.
I would like to exchange store credit for your continued use of my pictures.
$20 credit for each photo for a total of $60 in store credit.
Let me know if that works OK for you.
By the way... I am a repeat customer of yours, having bought "Black Star" Surinam Cherry seedlings in the past.
Thanks for your quick response.

Kevin

[Cookie Monster]

OK. Good info. Thanks.

Are images / photographs "implicitly" copyrighted, ie, if I upload a random picture from my camera to instagram with no claim of copyright, is it a violation of copyright law for someone to utilize it?

It's certainly something you could take issue with (in a legal action/demand letter) if you thought it was worth your time. I've represented clients on both ends of this, and it usually results in some sort of nuisance payment being made to avoid litigation under the copyright laws. Of course, that assumes you have a defendant you can identify (fairly easy if they're in the USA as you'd just need to order one of their products to get their info) and with the funds to pay something. There are some photographers out there that probably make a decent living suing/threatening to sue businesses that are using their images.

Other than a use that qualifies as "fair use," yes it would be a violation of copyright law. Given that the pictures are being used for commercial use, that doesn't qualify as fair use. I am sure there are hundreds of millions of images online that are being utilized in a way that is actionable copyright infringement, but the vast majority of those are likely not financially worthwhile for the owner to pursue.

I have no doubt there are lawyers out there getting rich shaking down companies left and right for $5,000 here, $2500 there, etc.

[FamilyJ]

Received a message from them today and made this proposal.
Here is our exchange so far:

Dear jonesmedia,
Aloha Kevin,
OK what can I do for you sir
Sent from my iPhone

7_heads


Hi,
I noticed you are using 3 of my Cedar Bay Cherry Photos on your Ebay ad.
That's my hand holding the plant.
I would like to exchange store credit for your continued use of my pictures.
$20 credit for each photo for a total of $60 in store credit.
Let me know if that works OK for you.
By the way... I am a repeat customer of yours, having bought "Black Star" Surinam Cherry seedlings in the past.
Thanks for your quick response.

Kevin

Interested is he fixes it or takes down picture

[ricshaw]

Are images / photographs "implicitly" copyrighted, ie, if I upload a random picture from my camera to instagram with no claim of copyright, is it a violation of copyright law for someone to utilize it?

Yes.

[7_Heads]

Aloha Kevin,
Nice photos, I liked them enough to save them after you posted them on the net with no copyright. I think you would be proud to share them. $20? I have a camera and plants too. Images are kinda like the plants we share with everyone, including you. If it bothers you, I apologize, I have promptly replaced the images of my own (rather simple to do).
As for anyone one else, feel free to share my images from my informational listings. I have thousands of images out there, just google for them. I must have a million copy-cats on the net. Still we are one of a kine.
Also, don't forget to buy some plants from us too. And Kevin, this is my offer. I will be happy to add a complementary plant to your next order.
A hui hou, 7_heads

[Kevin Jones]

No harm done...
Thank you.

Kevin

[savemejebus]

Aloha Kevin,
Nice photos, I liked them enough to save them after you posted them on the net with no copyright. I think you would be proud to share them. $20? I have a camera and plants too. Images are kinda like the plants we share with everyone, including you.

That's the type of sarcastic/'I did nothing wrong' attitude that's likely to get you sued someday. Kevin chose the high road here. Me? I probably would have ordered $.50 of seeds from you, got your name/address, and then sued you for statutory damages in the many thousands of dollars. Your sarcastic response would have convinced me to pursue the case to finish.

[MameyDisco]

I'd say it worked out. Communication was a success.

[fruitlovers]

Are images / photographs "implicitly" copyrighted, ie, if I upload a random picture from my camera to instagram with no claim of copyright, is it a violation of copyright law for someone to utilize it?

It's certainly something you could take issue with (in a legal action/demand letter) if you thought it was worth your time. I've represented clients on both ends of this, and it usually results in some sort of nuisance payment being made to avoid litigation under the copyright laws. Of course, that assumes you have a defendant you can identify (fairly easy if they're in the USA as you'd just need to order one of their products to get their info) and with the funds to pay something. There are some photographers out there that probably make a decent living suing/threatening to sue businesses that are using their images.

Other than a use that qualifies as "fair use," yes it would be a violation of copyright law. Given that the pictures are being used for commercial use, that doesn't qualify as fair use. I am sure there are hundreds of millions of images online that are being utilized in a way that is actionable copyright infringement, but the vast majority of those are likely not financially worthwhile for the owner to pursue.

I have no doubt there are lawyers out there getting rich shaking down companies left and right for $5,000 here, $2500 there, etc.

You can see in the responses below that people on both sides either don't know that using other people's photos, especially for commercial purposes, is against the law. Either that or they pretend not to know. Even worse when they tell you that you should be proud they are stealing your pictures!  At least in this case the photos were removed. That''s more than usually happens.