Where in continental US never gets freezing temps?

[Guanabanus]

I just saw an article by Chris Rollins, long-time director of Miami-Dade's Fruit and Spice Park, saying that the temperature there got down to 19-degrees F. in 1977.

 That was the year that Miami saw snow flurries in June.

[JF]

According to this map, the highest zone in the western continental US (if you'd call them "continental") is Catalina and San Clemente islands, just off the coast of LA, as well as a couple LA beaches. On the east, it's the Florida Keys - 11a Marathon to Key Largo, 11b Key Largo to Key West.  Parts of Miami are 11a as well; After the 11a areas comes 10b: Coastal Los Angeles and San Diego, the area just north of Yuma, and the southmost 5-10% of Florida.

Coastal San Diego almost never freezes, the ocean moderates the cold temperatures nicely.  Go 12-15 miles into the inland valleys and you will get the occasional, although uncommon, frost. The other week Poway had a frost warning, but it didn't get below 40F where I am.  I'm on the side of a large hill, so the coldest air rolls away from me.  Go down the hill to a little hollow and brrrr! Coastal lowland areas have not seen snow since the late-60's.

Lived in coastal San Diego. True it almost never freezes. But still very hard place to grow true tropicals due to many long periods of temperatures constantly below 50F. I also still remember the "June gloom" with long periods of coastal fog. Florida is definitely easier to grow tropicals than California, although still not easy.

I am from Newport Beach, Orange County Ca. And have lived in coastal San Diego.  I agree with Oscar 100%.  No comparison in growing tropicals in Florida verse California.  How many coconut palms do you see in California with fruit.....zero.

Eric

How many cherimoyas do you see in Florida? zero

[KarenRei]

According to this map, the highest zone in the western continental US (if you'd call them "continental") is Catalina and San Clemente islands, just off the coast of LA, as well as a couple LA beaches. On the east, it's the Florida Keys - 11a Marathon to Key Largo, 11b Key Largo to Key West.  Parts of Miami are 11a as well; After the 11a areas comes 10b: Coastal Los Angeles and San Diego, the area just north of Yuma, and the southmost 5-10% of Florida.

Coastal San Diego almost never freezes, the ocean moderates the cold temperatures nicely.  Go 12-15 miles into the inland valleys and you will get the occasional, although uncommon, frost. The other week Poway had a frost warning, but it didn't get below 40F where I am.  I'm on the side of a large hill, so the coldest air rolls away from me.  Go down the hill to a little hollow and brrrr! Coastal lowland areas have not seen snow since the late-60's.

Lived in coastal San Diego. True it almost never freezes. But still very hard place to grow true tropicals due to many long periods of temperatures constantly below 50F. I also still remember the "June gloom" with long periods of coastal fog. Florida is definitely easier to grow tropicals than California, although still not easy.

I am from Newport Beach, Orange County Ca. And have lived in coastal San Diego.  I agree with Oscar 100%.  No comparison in growing tropicals in Florida verse California.  How many coconut palms do you see in California with fruit.....zero.

Eric

How many cherimoyas do you see in Florida? zero

Oh yeah?  Well how much Arctic Willow do you see in California, huh? 

[Kada]

Great to know thanks

We get typhoons just the same as you guys get hurricanes, so for us at least tropical storm s are so worrying I guess.  Here we have poss but generally fare quite well.

 I wonder though about the salt flooding.  This is something I haven't yet experienced.  We get salt spray and such for sure in storms, but you guys actually have floods of ocean water?  I'm assuming the higher locations then might he more prone to colder temps.

I was personally asking about continental so could drive around the continent.  Island life like PR, Hawaii and here in Taiwan you are a bit stuck sometimes...

[KarenRei]

Are you thinking about moving to the US, Kada?

If so, the summary seems to be:

Very frost-sensitive, heat/humidity-loving, very-salt-tolerant plants; hurricanes okay: Florida keys, particularly the western keys
Rather frost-sensitive, heat/humidity-loving, somewhat-salt-tolerant plants; hurricanes okay: Miami
Rather frost-sensitive, cooler weather/drier, somewhat-salt-tolerant plants; high land values and water shortages okay: coastal southwestern California
Somewhat frost-sensitive, seasonal mix of temperatures, low-humidity, salt-insensitive plants; water shortages okay: Yuma-area.
Occasional mild frost okay: Large chunks of coastal, lowlands-central, and southern/southeastern CA; southwestern Arizona; the southern end of the Texas coast; and central-to-south Florida.

[FamilyJ]

Just going to say everywhere has its ups and downs Cali with fires, FL with hurricanes. everywhere has something

[Guanabanus]

And protected vermin and thieves.

[Paquicuba]

Are you thinking about moving to the US, Kada?

If so, the summary seems to be:

Very frost-sensitive, heat/humidity-loving, very-salt-sensitive plants; hurricanes okay: Florida keys, particularly the western keys
Rather frost-sensitive, heat/humidity-loving, somewhat-salt-sensitive plants; hurricanes okay: Miami
Rather frost-sensitive, cooler weather/drier, somewhat-salt-sensitive plants; high land values and water shortages okay: coastal southwestern California
Somewhat frost-sensitive, seasonal mix of temperatures, low-humidity, salt-insensitive plants; water shortages okay: Yuma-area.
Occasional mild frost okay: Large chunks of coastal, lowlands-central, and southern/southeastern CA; southwestern Arizona; the southern end of the Texas coast; and central-to-south Florida.

Shouldn't it be "very-salt-tolerant plants" for Florida Keys instead of "very-salt-sensitive plants" ?

[KarenRei]

Yep. I ned too porfraed betr.  :Þ

[fruitlovers]

Great to know thanks

We get typhoons just the same as you guys get hurricanes, so for us at least tropical storm s are so worrying I guess.  Here we have poss but generally fare quite well.

 I wonder though about the salt flooding.  This is something I haven't yet experienced.  We get salt spray and such for sure in storms, but you guys actually have floods of ocean water?  I'm assuming the higher locations then might he more prone to colder temps.

I was personally asking about continental so could drive around the continent.  Island life like PR, Hawaii and here in Taiwan you are a bit stuck sometimes...

Most of southern Florida is extremely flat and close to sea level... no high ground with colder temperatures, and the ground water is just a few inches or couple of feet below soil level. This is what makes flooding and storm surge so problematic there. If you ever go there you will see what i mean.

[dwfl]

Great to know thanks

We get typhoons just the same as you guys get hurricanes, so for us at least tropical storm s are so worrying I guess.  Here we have poss but generally fare quite well.

 I wonder though about the salt flooding.  This is something I haven't yet experienced.  We get salt spray and such for sure in storms, but you guys actually have floods of ocean water?  I'm assuming the higher locations then might he more prone to colder temps.

I was personally asking about continental so could drive around the continent.  Island life like PR, Hawaii and here in Taiwan you are a bit stuck sometimes...

Most of southern Florida is extremely flat and close to sea level... no high ground with colder temperatures, and the ground water is just a few inches or couple of feet below soil level. This is what makes flooding and storm surge so problematic there. If you ever go there you will see what i mean.

Not true. I'd have to dig a good 11ft. I'll give you a shovel if you'd like to visit!

I know you've never experienced a major hurricane here so I don't expect you to fully understand them or how storm surge works either. Salt water storm surge doesn't travel miles inland to groves and isn't even a threat with every storm. Mangroves and barrier islands along the southwest coast also act as a storm surge barrier to some areas. In 2004 the eye of Hurricane Charley made landfall and crossed right over Bokeelia - storm surge was non existent - 150mph winds did the damage.

There aren't groves of fruit trees along the beaches here either. The keys are the most susceptible area to storm surge because of how small and exposed they are to the waters that can be built up and pushed by hurricanes but there is little to no agriculture produced in the keys.

Wind is the primary cause of hurricane damage to groves in FL.

[fruitlovers]

Great to know thanks

We get typhoons just the same as you guys get hurricanes, so for us at least tropical storm s are so worrying I guess.  Here we have poss but generally fare quite well.

 I wonder though about the salt flooding.  This is something I haven't yet experienced.  We get salt spray and such for sure in storms, but you guys actually have floods of ocean water?  I'm assuming the higher locations then might he more prone to colder temps.

I was personally asking about continental so could drive around the continent.  Island life like PR, Hawaii and here in Taiwan you are a bit stuck sometimes...

Most of southern Florida is extremely flat and close to sea level... no high ground with colder temperatures, and the ground water is just a few inches or couple of feet below soil level. This is what makes flooding and storm surge so problematic there. If you ever go there you will see what i mean.

Not true. I'd have to dig a good 11ft. I'll give you a shovel if you'd like to visit!

I know you've never experienced a major hurricane here so I don't expect you to fully understand them or how storm surge works either. Salt water storm surge doesn't travel miles inland to groves and isn't even a threat with every storm. Mangroves and barrier islands along the southwest coast also act as a storm surge barrier to some areas. In 2004 the eye of Hurricane Charley made landfall and crossed right over Bokeelia - storm surge was non existent - 150mph winds did the damage.

There aren't groves of fruit trees along the beaches here either. The keys are the most susceptible area to storm surge because of how small and exposed they are to the waters that can be built up and pushed by hurricanes but there is little to no agriculture produced in the keys.

Wind is the primary cause of hurricane damage to groves in FL.

I've never lived in Florida, but have visited there. Given all the past forum member posts about flooding, and photos of flooded orchards,  it does seem that flooding is a problem there, whether it be from storm surges or heavy rainfall during storms. Florida is a very large state, so ofcourse there are very many different ground water levels. But generally speaking the ground water level is quite close to the surfaces.

[nullzero]

West Palm county and up your more likely to get higher elevations above 7ft above sea level. Groundwater table is more likely to be +4ft depending on season WPC and north. There are sand dune ridges especially north of West Palm that can get 10ft to 15ft above sea level and be within a 1/2 mi from ocean. However majority of population is going to be living in flat plain type areas where it was easier to do development.

[Frog Valley Farm]

🗯

[Kada]

Oh wow thanks!  I hadn't realised how much was so low and how shallow the water table was.  We have been considering moving or at least buying land in the States.  I'm from Canada but it isn't the best place to grow tropicals.  But wanted to be on the mainland as I love road trips. Hehe.

We have typhoons here and the winds and torrential rains, but not much experience with the salt issue.  We are also a narrow island that drains away fast so the flooding issue disappears when the rains stop.  I'm fairly experienced farming in heavy rain and high wind areas but the salt thing would be totally new.  Or maybe it's similar to here where the salt from the ocean is only of real agricultural concern maybe within a km or 2 of the coast?

[Frog Valley Farm]

🗯

[dwfl]

I am a couple miles from the coast and am 19ft above sea level.  The water level is usually 10”-2ft. depending on the time of year.  I just checked the temps. outside and it is 42f.  Not the 33f they predicted, though weather.com says its 35f.  Not sure where there thermometer is but it’s not near me.

All reporting weather station devices near your farm property are reporting 33-37. Sounds like "they" were right at least in some areas. You're in no danger of a freeze. There are quite a few weather station devices in the area.

[BohicaBob]

"There are several sources for historic weather records. http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx is one.
There probably isn't anywhere in the continental US that doesn't have record lows above freezing. Warmest areas are on the East and West coasts where the oceans moderate temperature. The gulf coast suffers mid-continent effects so is more extreme. In addition to Florida, Coastal California is another region that has few freezing days but the dry climate isn't ideal for tropicals and real estate costs are high. Hawaii is the only US state that doesn't get freezing temperatures but it isn't 'continental'."

Hawaii has many freezes at higher elevations.  Just checkout the mountainous webcams to verify snow at this time of the year. Elevation is important even in the tropics.  In Olinda on Maui (elevation 3,573 feet), mango trees will live but not produce fruit - it's too cool/cold for fruit set.  On the road just before you enter Kula Hospital is a very old and scraggly coconut palm that's been this way for decades at ... 3,028 feet in elevation.

[fruitlovers]

"There are several sources for historic weather records. http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx is one.
There probably isn't anywhere in the continental US that doesn't have record lows above freezing. Warmest areas are on the East and West coasts where the oceans moderate temperature. The gulf coast suffers mid-continent effects so is more extreme. In addition to Florida, Coastal California is another region that has few freezing days but the dry climate isn't ideal for tropicals and real estate costs are high. Hawaii is the only US state that doesn't get freezing temperatures but it isn't 'continental'."

Hawaii has many freezes at higher elevations. Just checkout the mountainous webcams to verify snow at this time of the year. Elevation is important even in the tropics.  In Olinda on Maui (elevation 3,573 feet), mango trees will live but not produce fruit - it's too cool/cold for fruit set.  On the road just before you enter Kula Hospital is a very old and scraggly coconut palm that's been this way for decades at ... 3,028 feet in elevation.

I wouldn't say many freezes. Only happens rarely during coldest part of winter, and only happens at very high elevations, like above 12,000 feet. Peaks of volcanoes here are close to 14,000 feet. But nobody grows anything at those elevations. Nobody tries to grow tropicals there, and plenty of farmland at low level tropical areas. Biggest problem for farming here is high cost of land, high cost of inputs and workers.

[dwfl]

Growing areas of Hawaii never see frost/freezes.

Oscar, what is the highest avg temp month you see at your grove? Talking to some palm growers (we were talking about coconuts but also some other heat loving ornamental palm species) recently in Puna area who complain of temps that aren't quite high enough to get good nut production or great growth rates. I think they're at about 1500ft and consistent high 70s and low of 60 the entire year!

[fruitlovers]

Growing areas of Hawaii never see frost/freezes.

Oscar, what is the highest avg temp month you see at your grove? Talking to some palm growers (we were talking about coconuts but also some other heat loving ornamental palm species) recently in Puna area who complain of temps that aren't quite high enough to get good nut production or great growth rates. I think they're at about 1500ft and consistent high 70s and low of 60 the entire year!

Highest average temperature is 85F. But all depends on location and altitude. On this part of the island coconuts don't fruit very well above 1000 feet, and closer you are to the ocean the better, meaning the larger the racks will be. I'm at 650 feet, and coconuts do fine here, but for commercial production you want to be lower down. Mangosteens, rambutans, and durians do just fine. Mangos are a problem, but just due to high rainfall, not lack of heat. They mangos do better on parts of the island that are arid.

[Mark in Texas]

Hey Mark, VERY cool variegated fruits! 

The rollinia you gave me seems to be quite happy and has doubled in size. 
I put it down in my book as rollinia deliciosa - that is correct, isn't it?

Stay warm down there!

Carolyn

Correct.  My rollinias are hating the lows of 34F and showing it with a major drop of leaves and so are two of my pineapples.  Yours looks great.  It gets expensive to heat the air from 10' to 18' so if they can't take the cold.....to the curb they go.   I do have 3 HAF fans that somewhat point down, with one of them attached near the 18' peak that points straight down.

What low temp do you keep your "hot house" part?

[Daintree]

My tropical house stays at 50+, and this year it hasn't gotten lower than 55.  But I have mangosteen and cacao out there, plus some weird things from Cameroon that really hate anything lower than about 50. 

I have 5 fans that blow straight down, but they don't blow hard, just a gentle breeze.  My furnace is mounted at about 4 ft and it blows straight out fairly hard, so that tends to keep heat more down where I need it.

The orangerie will get down into the high 30's , but bottomed out so far this year at 48.  But I think we are actually warmer here than you folks are right now! Our lowest this winter was 17, and it has been in the 20's at night and high 30's to low 40's during the day for the last couple of weeks.

Stay warm, all you Southern folks!!

Carolyn

[Mike T]

Like Oscar I am a bit hot and wet for mangoes except a few varieties, For the last week my temps were 95 to 98f with minimums in the 80's.The humidity has been extraordinary with the air like syrup. People without aircons at night must be like starfish under the fan in pools of sweat. The term for tropical heat with heavy humidity induced madness is 'going troppo'.
I would kill to feel some of that US cool weather at the moment.

[fruitlovers]

Like Oscar I am a bit hot and wet for mangoes except a few varieties, For the last week my temps were 95 to 98f with minimums in the 80's.The humidity has been extraordinary with the air like syrup. People without aircons at night must be like starfish under the fan in pools of sweat. The term for tropical heat with heavy humidity induced madness is 'going troppo'.
I would kill to feel some of that US cool weather at the moment.

Remember the Aussie who used to post that air conditioning was for sissys? Wonder what happened to him? Is he still alive?