Author Topic: The "Cerrado Curse"  (Read 15568 times)

FlyingFoxFruits

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The "Cerrado Curse"
« on: March 11, 2013, 07:07:32 PM »
Who has broken the spell? Has anyone fruited some cerrado species outside of their native range? or even kept a plant alive for more than one season (through a winter) ?

If so, what species...and how did u do it?

I managed to keep some alive this winter, by keeping them in pots, and out of the rain.

I had some Eugenia dysenterica seedlings that survived...just barely.  And I kept them so dry, it would have killed any other plant I can think of.  Even the E. klotzschianas i had right next to the dysentericas, died from drought.  (but I managed to keep some pera-do-campo alive).

Brosimum gaudichaudii...all look dead....and really wanted to taste this one...Maybe they will pop up? 

Pouteria. torta dead, P. ramilflora dead.

Annona coriacea alive!

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Cookie Monster

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 07:13:29 PM »
what the hack is a cerrado plant? when I first read that I was thinking of 'caso cerrado', which unfortunately is one of my wife's favorite shows.
Jeff  :-)

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 07:41:44 PM »
here is a thread with some info about cerrado plants
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2833.msg40736#msg40736
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luc

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 07:45:22 PM »
A must have for the Cerrado fruit freaks .


To answer your question Adam these are my fruiting trees :

Psidium firmum
Anacardium humile
Sterculia striata
Alibertia edulis
Alibertia elliptica

Planted and doing well , still no fruits :

Annona crassiflora
Annona coriacea
Spondia lutea
Pouteria sp ??
Genipa americano
Euterpe edulis
Talisia esculenta

All those you mentioned are in the cerrado heaven , but I am not giving up specially on the mama cadela ( tasted and liked ) and the Eugenias .

Luc Vleeracker
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Cookie Monster

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 08:00:30 PM »
Ahh OK. Brazilian place.
Jeff  :-)

Tomas

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 08:16:49 PM »
Hey Adam,

Here is what USDA wrote 1914 about Eugenia klotzschiana in their Inventory of Imported Seeds and Plants: "...the shrub seems on the whole unusually promising for trial in the mildest parts of the United States". Now, 99 years later and no one has figured it out yet... I grow Eugenia klotzschiana in my basement and it's pretty mind weather there so at least I got that part right :-)

Tomas

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 12:31:57 AM »
I'm real wimpy and flew the white flag, and surrendered to the cerrado curse. I think for vast majority of plants from cerrado 3000+ mm of rain is not going to make them very happy, especially when spread out evenly over the year. I think the member from Aruba, forget his addy right now, is ideal place to conquer cerrado curse: very tropical but very dry. Sandy soil is also a plus.
Oscar

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 10:35:16 PM »
Annona coreacea grew for decades and maybe is still there, at Fairchild Gardens research area on the Montgomery estate--- it was mis-labeled as Annona dioica.  Others of us have kept it grafted on Annona montana.

Annona crassiflora survived at Zill High Performance Plants for about two years in the mid 1990's.  We did not provide it with mycorrhyzae or other beneficial soil biota.
Har

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 11:49:33 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the input!

I think my biggest problem was keeping the plants from totally drying out...(keeping them bone dry is easy...but managing to barely water them is an art).  I had them in too much shade as well, but this was the least of my concerns.

another big obstacle is the city water, which  is a big killer of these species.  I didn't collect enough rain to water them, and I got lazy.

maybe next time I will have the formula down!

I'm not giving up yet...it's a  fun and worthwhile challenge


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Tomas

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2014, 10:27:06 AM »
Hi,

About a year later I am still as perplexed why it is so hard to imitate the cerrado soil when growing these species in pots. This cerrado soil is poor soil so in my mind it shouldn't be hard, but it is.

"Cerrado soils are among the world's oldest soils and have extremely low native fertility. Cerrado soils usually have low pH levels and high aluminum saturation, and are deficient in phosphorus, potash and trace minerals". [www.agbrazil.com/soils.htm]

Tomas

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2014, 11:05:35 AM »
I had two pouteria torta seedlings, one died without cause, the other is bulleting up.
- David Antonio Garcia

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2014, 02:12:15 AM »
Got Eugenia dysenterica in flower last year, but no fruits; and again this year - hopefully producing fruits. Believe E. pitanga is also from cerrado, and that species is very easy to fruit. But the Annona spp.; those are my failures... 
Søren
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luc

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 07:33:28 PM »
Got Eugenia dysenterica in flower last year, but no fruits; and again this year - hopefully producing fruits. Believe E. pitanga is also from cerrado, and that species is very easy to fruit. But the Annona spp.; those are my failures...

E. dysenterica are so cute when they germinate ( 20 days ) , all small red stems . Yes I gave it another try ....
Luc Vleeracker
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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2014, 01:52:11 AM »
Luc - I got a fruit almost ripe; fairly big and I do look forward to taste my first E. dysenterica
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

luc

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 10:54:37 AM »
Luc - I got a fruit almost ripe; fairly big and I do look forward to taste my first E. dysenterica

Great ! Looking forward to your report on the taste . How long did it take from seed to fruit ?
Luc Vleeracker
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Soren

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 04:12:08 PM »
Luc - I got a fruit almost ripe; fairly big and I do look forward to taste my first E. dysenterica

Great ! Looking forward to your report on the taste . How long did it take from seed to fruit ?

It was mistreated in a corner of my yard; got it back in 2006-7 I believe
Søren
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luc

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 05:10:06 PM »
Luc - I got a fruit almost ripe; fairly big and I do look forward to taste my first E. dysenterica

Great ! Looking forward to your report on the taste . How long did it take from seed to fruit ?

It was mistreated in a corner of my yard; got it back in 2006-7 I believe

7 - 8 years ?? OK I wont hold my breath....
Luc Vleeracker
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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2014, 06:01:51 PM »
Anacardium humile has held up rather well...looks like it might be possible to fruit this one....I'm surprised how they handled the winter conditions in my greenhouse, with the low temps, high humidity, and low light.

I've always been excited about this species.



« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 06:06:13 PM by ASaffron »
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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 04:58:11 PM »
trying to break the curse still.

E. klotzschiana still alive, and growing during winter

E. dysenterica hanging on, pushing new growth as well, kept as dry as possible (but not totally dry) elevated on a shelf in the greenhouse





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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 05:14:00 PM »
This is the first I've heard about Cerrado fruits, so these might be dumb questions:

- Are there really tasty fruits among the Cerrado fruits you're trying to grow?  Or is it mostly for novelty?

- Would a dry place like California, especially places in California with sandy soils, be good for such plants?

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 05:19:55 PM »
Adam, forgot to tell you, the last of the Marolo you gave me bit the big one the other day.

I still a Pouteria torta though, a little yellow, but growing
- David Antonio Garcia

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2015, 05:28:44 PM »
This is the first I've heard about Cerrado fruits, so these might be dumb questions:

- Are there really tasty fruits among the Cerrado fruits you're trying to grow?  Or is it mostly for novelty?

- Would a dry place like California, especially places in California with sandy soils, be good for such plants?

yes these fruits are purported to be extremely tasty!

problem is, they come from an area with soil and climate that is hard to mimic (quick drainage, low pH, not much rainfall during winter months).... even if you keep the trees happy for the first year with proper pH, they still seem to die from excess moisture during the winter months.
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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2015, 05:30:47 PM »
Adam, forgot to tell you, the last of the Marolo you gave me bit the big one the other day.

I still a Pouteria torta though, a little yellow, but growing

sorry to hear this but not surprised!

the sap is on your hands...LOL...

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2015, 09:46:00 PM »
Adam -- Interesting!  Which species are supposed to be the tastiest?

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Re: The "Cerrado Curse"
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2015, 10:02:15 PM »
Adam -- Interesting!  Which species are supposed to be the tastiest?

A few I've heard are nice:

Mouriri pusa (not sure if cerrado species, but close enough, mine died from curse like symptoms, ph wasn't low enough, and was too wet)

Anacardium humile (like a mini cashew plant, I've managed to keep a few alive!!  Would love to fruit this one!)

Eugenia calycina
Eugenia dysenterica
E klotzschiana
Campomanesia adamantium
Myrciaria nana

And many more
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