Author Topic: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia  (Read 5924 times)

SeaWalnut

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Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« on: July 02, 2019, 07:31:50 AM »
These are my Paulownia Tomentosa trees ,grown from seed.Paulownia Tomentosa its the fastest growing Paulownia but the trunk doesnt grow straight easy.The seeds are from a tree that has the most intense purple color ive ever seen in any Paulownia and when its in bloom its breath taking beautifull.
I planted them a bit too cloose but they will get their  nutrients and water from the sewage trench and they will clean somme of those nitrates and phosphates ( there are a lot of phosphates in detergents).
These trees regrow at least 5 times after they are cut for timber and the wood its expensive ,light and resistant to rot and saltwater.Dryes in just a month without cracking.
The flowers are big and atract bees.Also,verry interesting ,this tree makes at least 3 times more oxigen than any otther known tree.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 07:34:23 AM by SeaWalnut »

Tropheus76

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2019, 07:53:51 AM »
How long do they keep their flowers? Been on a flowering tree kick lately for some reason. Something almost unkillable like this that attracts bees would be ideal I think

lebmung

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 07:59:36 AM »
They don't grow so fast in practice. It's just another fairy tale

pvaldes

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 10:05:50 AM »
Take in mind that the fastest a tree grows the worst quality of the wood (more perishable, less durable, lighter)

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 11:54:47 AM »
Flowers last 3-4 weeks ,the nectar its 700-900 litters per hectare.And flowers after 3-4 years.Somme people like to pollard them every year or at 2 years ,because after they are cut to the ground they grow giant leaves up to 1 meter big.Pollarded trees dont flower unless after 3-4 years of growth.
The wood its light but resistant to rot and flexible.It is used to make surf boards,ships,musical instruments.Japan buys 90 percent of the paulownia logs from Europe.
It is also somehow fire resistant and the japanese used to protect their goods in paulownia boxes.There are paulownia boxes that survived fires ,burned on the outside but intact on the inside.The fire resistance its because the wood is lacking in volatile resins.
Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia wich says a lot about the quality of the wood.The otther violin makers of that time tryed anything they could to clean spruce or otther woods of resin so that it would act like paulownia.Paulownia wood was Stradivarius secret.
https://youtu.be/bBZueAd0EqQ
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:20:07 PM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 11:57:28 AM »
They don't grow so fast in practice. It's just another fairy tale
If they dont grow fast ,then how can you explain those 5-7 cm wide growth rings ?https://youtu.be/CGm2s_NwNEU
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 05:25:53 PM by SeaWalnut »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 09:39:03 PM »
I found another tree wich grows giant leaves from regrowth after its been cut ,just like Paulownia.Idesia Policarpa from the willows and poplars family ,wich also makes a lot of edible fruits that can be eaten raw or cooked.It is also a good for beekepers tree( flowers are not soo beautifull as paulownias thogh),the berryes atract birds and its a verry fast growing tree.Downside is that it needs both,male and female trees to make fruits.As for the taste of the fruits or the wood uses i couldnt find any reference.Its a rare tree.

pineislander

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 10:27:53 PM »
I would look into actually BUYING these. They have been around the USA all my life. As I understand it, the fast growing wood isn't desirable at all the Japanese are looking for slow grown trees with very close annual rings and many places in the world have found these schemes to be scams to sell the seedlings and ultimately no market for the low quality wood. Before planting it do not take the word of those selling the seedlings, find someone actually BUYING the wood.

Try googling Paulownia scam and you will see.

If this was a hot commodity there is ample cheap land for it to have succeeded in my lifetime or even in 10 years but I wasn't able to find evidence for any windfalls. Think about the land in China or somewhere closer to Japan?

pineislander

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 11:13:40 PM »
Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia wich says a lot about the quality of the wood.The otther violin makers of that time tryed anything they could to clean spruce or otther woods of resin so that it would act like paulownia.Paulownia wood was Stradivarius secret.
Every reference I looked at says Stradivarius used maple and spruce many scientists have looked at the properties of the wood he used, no mention of Paulownia.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 01:56:24 AM »
Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia wich says a lot about the quality of the wood.The otther violin makers of that time tryed anything they could to clean spruce or otther woods of resin so that it would act like paulownia.Paulownia wood was Stradivarius secret.
Every reference I looked at says Stradivarius used maple and spruce many scientists have looked at the properties of the wood he used, no mention of Paulownia.
If you search further you will find that Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia .He did used otther woods but the secret of his violins is the paulownia wood wich absorbs vibrations(sounds).
Slow growth Paulownia with smaller rings its much more common than the fast grown trees because these trees need a lot of water to grow fast as you see on plantations.Here the guys from those video links i posted give you the seedlings and they sign a contract to buy your wood wich they export to Japan at a higher price.
I dont do business with paulownia wood.I have just 8 trees .
Its not the tree fault because there are scammers using it.Its valuable.
Here is something to contradict the big rings vs smaller rings
Theory. This log in the picture its not a paulownia and it has a big ring ,3 quarters of an inch thick.Regardless of the big ring and the fast growth ,its much harder than any oak .If you dont believe it,i can cut a slice of it and send it to you to proove that you cant put a nail in it right in that big ring.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 02:23:18 AM by SeaWalnut »

Oolie

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2019, 03:17:42 AM »
I know it seems odd, but the distance between rings doesn't really make the big difference when it comes to wood hardness, Bristlecone pines are a good example, the have very soft wood with very little distance between rings.

I don't know which variety of Paulownia the Japanese are paying a high price for, but I have some awesome boxes procured from japan made with the wood. It's very light in color and has large distances between rings. The boxes were hand crafted and not cheap. They have the aesthetic attribute of the lid falling into place when set on top of the box.

1 meter leaves? That would be awesome.

pineislander

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2019, 08:05:42 AM »
.Here the guys from those video links i posted give you the seedlings and they sign a contract to buy your wood wich they export to Japan at a higher price.

I feel sorry for the people who get into this.


Mark in Texas

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2019, 09:43:34 AM »
It's an invasive albeit fast growing tree here in Texas that is strongly condemned. 

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2019, 10:49:38 AM »
It's an invasive albeit fast growing tree here in Texas that is strongly condemned.
In my opinion its a low risk tree because each tree makes 20 mil seeds anually wich germinate verry easy but fail to mature.There is a reason why this tree makes that manny seeds- because they fail.
Before i started growing these from seed i tryed with cuttings from the trees that grow in 3 parks.If id find a single paulownia seedling i would have took it but there was none.
Only from root shots this can be invasive but thats not a big deal ,most foreign plants do the same or worse.
I have apples,plums and cherryes more invasive than Paulownia.
If grown for timber ,it can even save native trees that are harvested for wood.

pvaldes

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2019, 10:55:54 AM »
> this tree makes at least 3 times more oxigen than any other known tree
> this is the fastest growing tree in the world
> Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia

All those statements seem wrong. At least pretty unlikely to me. It seems that somebody is feeding you with some propaganda and selling you some history.

In any case the behaviour of a tree can vary. The growing ratio of the tree in Romania can be much slower than in a more temperate region. Pawlonia is invasive and can turn into a nuisance in a small garden. I know a park with one of those trees since some years and the ratio grow is pretty standard. A willow or a Poplar are faster for sure. And my climate is warmer than yours easily (so should grow much faster here). Is not slow in any case but definitely not "bamboo fast".

> Bristlecone pines are a good example, the have very soft wood with very little distance between rings.

Conifers have a different vascular system than flowering trees. Are softer normally. The wood of Pinus longaeva is famous for being very resistent to insects. Is claimed to be very resinous and hard for a conifer. I never see one in any case so I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 11:15:16 AM by pvaldes »

shpaz

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2019, 11:01:01 AM »
I have experimented with these trees growing them from seed.

I think there are faster growing strains used by commercial growers in Spain but I wasnt able to get my hand on one of these. Note that the tree will need 5-8 years from seed before they start flowering.

To germinate the seeds, I used a transparent plastic container filled with something like 0.5cm of water. I put the extremely tiny seeds in there and put the container in indirect sunlight, in few days they germinated and using a tooth pick I picked each one up and transplanted them into small pods with potting soil. They grow fast but I have seen way faster trees.
A passion for things that grow
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SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2019, 07:24:23 PM »
In parks it doesnt grow fast because they are not watered and fertilised well.Also the paulownia you see in parks have smaller leaves because they are not cut to grow giant leaves.
My small seedling have leaves 4 times bigger than the mother tree.Bamboo its fastest growing than paulownia but bamboo its a grass not a tree.

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2019, 09:53:31 PM »
> this tree makes at least 3 times more oxigen than any other known tree
> this is the fastest growing tree in the world
> Stradivarius violins are made of Paulownia


Pvaldes ,Paulownia really is the fastest growing tree in the world.Its even in the guiness book.
And this tree makes 3 times more oxygen than all the known trees because Paulownia have evolved to use C4 carbon cycle instead of C3 like all the otther trees.C4 photosynthesys is found in just 3 % of plants ,iet they sequester 23% of the terestrial carbon.That means the plants wich have C4 photosynthesis make a lot more oxygen than the rest of plants( splitting CO2). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_carbon_fixation
As for Stradivarius violins,somme experts say they are made of paulownia because it looks and sounds and feels like Paulownia since its better than spruce.Im no violin expert but il keep my belief that they are made of Paulownia .

Mark in Texas

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2019, 12:54:24 PM »
For a thick windbreak, ground up, it's hard to beat Arizona cypress and Leyland Cypress. I planted these 12" liners about 12 years ago.  The blue A.C. is cultivar "Blue Ice", my fave.

They like droughty conditions, are bullet proof.  May not live as long as an oak but neither will I.



pvaldes

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2019, 01:41:26 PM »
The Guinnes book of records is more a marketing tool than a scientific source. People pays money for proposing something, one or a few judges from the organisation travel to your place for one or two days and if nobody says otherwise, put you in the book. The amount of scientific work and effort done by them to refute this proposal is close to zero.

C4 Photosynthesis evolved from C3 several times. Is typical of Poaceae, (grasses, cereal, bamboo), and also appear in a few plants of other families adapted to dry and desertic areas. There is a recent review of C4 plants (Sage 2016, Journal of Experimental Botany 68) that list each known genus with this kind of photosynthesis. In 2016 the huge genus Euphorbia was the only known genus with a few trees using C4 photosynthesis. Bamboo are not trees but its ecological role is similar in any case

Paulownia does not appear in this list. In fact there is not any plant in the list from the order Lamiales

I didn't find a recent scientific source claiming that is a true C4 plant. Maybe C4 is facultative/not the common way of photosynthesis for this tree, a mix between C3 and C4? Maybe has been modified genetically

Or perhaps this is just a myth.

If is not a true C4 plant, could run in standard mode C3 when provided with water and manure, and will move to the economic mode C4 in dry areas, thus the increase of oxigen produced is debatable.

Crassulacean Acid Metabolism (CAM) on the other hand is present in a few Lamiales but not in Paulowniaceae. Is typical of succulents in family Crassulaceae.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 02:03:48 PM by pvaldes »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2019, 07:06:31 PM »
For a thick windbreak, ground up, it's hard to beat Arizona cypress and Leyland Cypress. I planted these 12" liners about 12 years ago.  The blue A.C. is cultivar "Blue Ice", my fave.

They like droughty conditions, are bullet proof.  May not live as long as an oak but neither will I.


Cant beat that for a windbreak.And you have a reason to be proud for planting those trees .Each tree has advantages and disadvantages and those Cypress did grow fast but if its like im suspecting,that when you planted them they were allready 4-5 years old ,add 12 years and we get 16-17 years  total.Paulownia can grow that big in just 4-5 years.
As for the paulownia being a C4 tree,Pvaldes is right its not the only tree with C4.The candle nut tree and the rubber trees are also C4 from the Euphorbiaceae.But Paulownia are using C4 as well and verry efficiently( there are a lot of studyes mentioning this).And not all the cereals have C4,wheat and rice are just C3 .There are high ambitions now to modify somehow the rice to have C4 instead of C3 and that could have a huge impact on civilisation.
This is a regenerated paulownia tomentosa thats just one year old.https://youtu.be/a2e5d2oo-dU
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 07:25:44 PM by SeaWalnut »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2019, 10:16:50 AM »
Cant beat that for a windbreak.And you have a reason to be proud for planting those trees .Each tree has advantages and disadvantages and those Cypress did grow fast but if its like im suspecting,that when you planted them they were allready 4-5 years old ,add 12 years and we get 16-17 years

Nope, less than a year old, 30 cm. tall when I planted them. They are started from cuttings at a wholesale nursery.  Sometimes before a rain I do a drive by in my ATV and toss scoop fulls of a high N food at their base.  Haven't done that in a long time.

I used them for Xmas trees, choose and cut.  Notice the striking color differences.   I've got two huge ones down at the highway gate which have never received supplemental water nor fertilizer.   They will grow at least a meter a year if fed and watered.  I know trees, all kinds of trees - fruit, nut, landscape, shade.




« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 10:19:53 AM by Mark in Texas »

pvaldes

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2019, 12:48:12 PM »
> This is a regenerated paulownia tomentosa thats just one year old

In a 20-30 years old root system. If this is what Guinnes measured, they are idiots. Some trees overcompensate with bursts of growing after being chopped. Is the normal behaviour, but will return to normal slow mode in the next years and can take some time to recover. Do not expect the same ratio of growing for the next 5-10 years. The average growing in the life of tree is what really counts.

I hope that you don't invest a lot of money and space on it, and give them a freely access to free water. They need a lot and If you need to use tap water could be a ruinous project.

If you really want to grow fine wood as investment that will pay benefits some decades in the future I would suggest to use the valuable space instead for Juglans, Diospyros or Macadamia. Those will be a less risky investments that will produce benefits much before in form of fruits. 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 12:58:33 PM by pvaldes »

SeaWalnut

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2019, 04:41:33 AM »
Cant beat that for a windbreak.And you have a reason to be proud for planting those trees .Each tree has advantages and disadvantages and those Cypress did grow fast but if its like im suspecting,that when you planted them they were allready 4-5 years old ,add 12 years and we get 16-17 years




Beautifull trees Mark.I tryed to plant conifers but they didnt grow well on my land or died so i quit because they seem difficult and i only plant hardwoods.
The only ,,  cedars,, i have are 2 chinese mahogany seedlings ( not pink flamingo for sure). I will plant these 2 near the paulownia and these also have precious wood and grow fast but not like paulownia fast.
To respond to Pvaldes,i dont do business with timber,its just a hobby i have to grow fast growing trees like paulownia , toona ( i had both ,australian and chinese).In my quest for fast growing trees i almost decided to plant the tree of heaven but ive quit after i found a bunch of them near my land(its the most invasive tree in the world) and Melia Azedarech wich i quit because i find out it can poison the wild birds that eat the berryes.Melia A . was of great interest for me because its related to Melia Dubia,an exotic fast growing tree that in India they say its faster growing than Paulownia.
I also build a collection of rosewood trees from the Dalbergia genus and if i lived in a warmer place then i would have planted Pterocarpus species.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 04:48:23 AM by SeaWalnut »

Pokeweed

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Re: Fastest growing tree in the world,Paulownia
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2019, 08:47:50 AM »
Hi All, I bought a pawlonia root cutting in February and it's now about 2' tall and wide. I planted it in played out soil that was range land for 100+ years and have only given it supplemental water every few weeks in our S. Texas summer. In our conditions it is a really fast grower, and we need shade. I don't doubt that it is invasive in some places, and maybe even our area, but if so, it will just shade the mesquite and weesatche thickets.
D

 

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