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Messages - sahai1

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I've seen some big Mango tree farm fails, owners I guess were "greedy" planted too close, didn't thin any growth, main trunk easily passes the 12 foot mark until spreading.. those types of problems will cost time to fix.  leads to low yields, disease, and fruit flies.  By the time they started pruning, they were taking off huge 24" thick branches, and wasn't nearly enough to help.  They needed a shorter trunk. They should have planted 1 mango tree within a square design, instead they had rows of mango trees planted alongside each other.  Basically they had 4 large mango trees in each amount of space that could have fit 1 smaller mango tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: conquering the muck and mud
« on: March 20, 2018, 08:07:02 PM »
I guess in 5 years will know!  but I think for sure most trees will do good.  If not the original holes aren't going anywhere, so those can be easily replanted with new trees.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: conquering the muck and mud
« on: March 20, 2018, 06:26:30 PM »
canal dug with backhoe, had a guy on site already to dig another pond,  But still gettimg work in all day long with shovel and hoe grading the fill, laying irrigation pipe and planting trees. 95 and full sun everyday, killing me :)

besides fruit trees, taking a stab at watermelon and kubucha, maybe they can cover the open dirt

itís a small variety orange, cut one down already, two others growing going to be skinny as well, down the street another one like this, also skinny with small nuts.   Tye other two growing going to be harvested for hearts, and this one will axe sometime in the future.

The water is never really sweet, most of the time just nasty.   However these get full of oily meat, so it is useful for that.

then all the elongated ones have no nut inside right, something wrong about pollination Iíd assume.   My golden coconut tree has occasional long elongated ones that are all husk no nut, about 3-5%

but looking at it today looks like none are like that on the tree now

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: conquering the muck and mud
« on: March 20, 2018, 01:19:40 AM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / conquering the muck and mud
« on: March 19, 2018, 11:51:05 PM »
I think I got drainage and flooding under control this time for most stubborn area of property., the canal diverts to usual pathway of floodwaters, but got two highgrounds both sides.   Itís 22 meters long by 2.5 meters deep. I plan to use this for irragation water exclusively and has water all year round due to small
underground spring somewhere in this area likely opened up by the banyan tree.

Now digging plantingholes 6 feet down by 2 feet wide.  Filling 70% up with manure, and then going with potting soil overflowing.   At least 6 premium planting tree sites have been recovered by diggimg the canal.

For back side going with caimito, and old side likely black palm or coconut.

Rainy spring 1-2 months away and flooding season 6 months away, so hopefully can get some goundcover going to prevent some of the erosion.

can that be caused by cross pollination?  you talking about that freak round one in the bunch of elongated ones right?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: On a lighter note - describing my soil
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:26:14 PM »
sounds like you have a lot of sand in the soil there.

your problem is with the water table not the drainage exactly.  Alot of trees can actually tolerate a high water table as long ad they fully drain during dry season, only really possible with sand in soil.

I saw at a friends property Duriiam amd Jackfruit 5 years old right on a large river bank which can flood 2-3 feet every year.  I couldnít believe they survived.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya question
« on: March 18, 2018, 09:27:02 AM »
can you check the flowers and check if they are 10 flower hermie, or 5 flower hermie?
I think I read the 10 flower hermie are bland. 

Are you speaking of 5 vs 10 petals or 5 vs 10 anthers?
I haven't heard this but am interested.

yes the anthers, kind of like small flowers inside the flowers, was reading online about papaya gender, really quite complex, never gave it much thought until recently. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Che AKA Chinese Mulberry
« on: March 17, 2018, 08:05:24 PM »
Maybe search by that 'Che' Berry tag, I saw some for sale here, but on research I think I passed because my weather here is not suitable.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya question
« on: March 17, 2018, 08:04:08 PM »
can you check the flowers and check if they are 10 flower hermie, or 5 flower hermie?
I think I read the 10 flower hermie are bland. 

Maybe you can try some manure fertilizer also. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Artocarpus lacucha - plant or not
« on: March 17, 2018, 08:00:04 PM »
awesome good to hear it is resilient as mango.   I'll put them in the sandy topsoil/clay bottom area the mangoes are in
now.  Save my red dirt highlands for other trees.

awesome, I have one tree in the ground now, was getting leaf burn early on, but always enough new fresh growth so that it didn't matter.  A friend of mine in the same area has one that has really taken off in 2 years, so it is good for our area I think, I guess will have to wait for fruiting to know.

Hey, I'm not a seller, but I recently found something very hard to acquire from a seller on Ebay, although I was able to contact him on Line outside of Ebay, I got 4 sprouted Black Palm nuts, and 20 sprouted Arenga Pinnata seeds.

They were shipping in vacuum sealed moist coco coir, and made it perfectly.

Hope that helps somebody else. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Artocarpus lacucha - plant or not
« on: March 16, 2018, 08:33:06 PM »
Got two saplings, seem to be doing good in my weather here, so far much more resilient to the the humidity shifts than Jackfruit and Durian.  How is the taste? Would you plant it instead of another mango tree?  I figure they need just as much space.   

Can they be pruned?  Do they need cross pollination?  Will they handle wet feet, clay soil, or occasionally flooding?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Salak
« on: March 10, 2018, 08:05:12 PM »
I got tissue culture plants here in Thailand from a certified Sumalee farm, aged about 8 months, and sexed, so I only needed to plant 2 palms.

In Thailand Sala Indo is here, but not sure what strain it is, I don't think it is self pollinating.  For sure Sumalee needs not just male and female, but you need to assist pollination from collecting male pollen and dusting the female ones.  Otherwise the pollination rate is very low.

Sumalee doesn't like full sun, but are more tolerant to wet feet then I think commonly believed.  I planted 2 in flood zones that killed many previous trees beforehand due to rot, and they pushed through.  Now my second tree is suffering because I harvested sugarcane that was shading it.  They do not like full sun, or even half sun, filtered sun is best.  It is starting to turn yellow, a bit of leaf burn.  I have to dig it up anyways since I'm digging a fishpond there, so no problem.

They are definitely I think one of the top 10 understory tree choices for any agroforestry project.  They are often planted in the rubber plantations between rows, however in that case they need irrigation during the dry season.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: nipa palm fruit
« on: March 10, 2018, 07:57:27 PM »
Yeah, sorry I can't really comment on the accuracy, just what I read from the blog:  ขั้นตอนที่ 4      การหมักเมื่อได้น้ำส้มจากแล้ว จะนำมาทำการหมัก โดยใส่ถังหรือโอ่ง ใส่จนเต็มแล้วปิดฝาภาชนะ การหมักจะใช้ระยะเวลาประมาณ 40-45 วัน เพื่อให้แอลกอฮอล์หมดไปก่อน จึงจะเปิดเพื่อจำหน่ายได้ หากมีการดื่มในช่วงไม่ถึงเวลา จะทำให้เกิดอาหารมึนเมาได้ และยังขัดต่อศาสนบัญญัติของศาสนาอิสลามได้ ในการหมักนั้นห้ามมีการเปิด-ปิด ฝาภาชนะบ่อยๆ เพราะจะทำให้น้ำส้มเสียหรือไม่มีความเปรี้ยวทันที

Step 4.  When start to ferment the sap that has been collected, place in a barrel or clay pot, fill to the brim and close the lid of the container.  The fermenting time in the container is 40-45 days, for letting the alcohol disappear.  After that you can open for sale.  If you drink before 40-45 days you can become drunk, so it is against Islam.  When fermenting do not open or close the container often, as it will make the vinegar spoil or make the vinegar not 'sour' on time.

Excuse my poor translation...

Perhaps the quality of the containers is so poor, low pressure, just like trash can lids and clay earthen lids, that gas can still escape when pressure builds up.  My best guess.

soursop is flowering for the second time this year, earlier 40 or so flowers, but only one set at the end of the rainy season.  Now after 1 month of no rain it is also flowering again.  Full 10 hour sun on this one, hopefully more fruit will set in the dry season.

I cut and rake, use a backpack honda wheewhacker with steel blade sharpened paper cutting sharp each use.  Steel pronged rake made from steel pipe and rebar welded together.  For areas overgrown I will cut and rake, sometimes twice a day in the same spot.  Helps to have 1 person rake, 1 person cut, trade off.  I burn the cut material and till in dirt to make potting soil.  Composting takes too much space, too airy for use, and need plastic and tarps that get eaten by the sun within a year.

For holes I dig out the original soil to make a surrounding mound, and fill the bottom with compost from my leech ditch, which till in coir, the septic waste breaks down the coir.  Also I use cow manure for the bottom.  Then I fill with potting soil, which is a mixture of 40% compost, 30% sand, 20% manure, and 10% clay.  At this rate the clay will bond to the compost and not ball up.  This mixture will not ball up, even when water is added.  It is springy, it will also not hold water, so may not be the best choice.  As the compost completely breaks down it becomes a rich loam, but while fresh the roots can push through it easily.

Then I place in the tree and mulch the entire area surrounding with coconut coir to about 2-3" thick.  Water daily.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: nipa palm fruit
« on: March 09, 2018, 09:41:44 PM »
some pms on how to make Nipa Palm vinegar.  I did not know well enough to give advice, but I just looked up and found this blog:

It is pretty straight forward.  At the same time you would harvest fruit, you cut the stalk (harvesting the fruit) and cut the stalk short.  Re cut again at a 45 degree angle facing downward and right below that cut a very thin laceration, not too thick as that would cause the sap to come slow and dry up.

Then attach a bottle and harvest once or twice a day, I believe in a video it was mentioned about 1 liter per day?   Main reason I don't buy Nipa Vinegar here is because they all use plastic.  So on my home I would rig up something with glass.

Then you need an airtight container I think also no light to pass through, and store without opening for 45 days, before 45 days it will be alcoholic.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: nipa palm fruit
« on: March 09, 2018, 09:18:18 PM »
Ok, yes my old pond on the farthest side is like that, not enough clay to keep firm and stays mucky, dig a bit and hit water.  I'll plant them over there, and not fuss about the water line too much. 

a few more questions...

How many years since you planted, what age did they flower/fruit, bole size, and how many suckers?  Are you pruning suckers and does that damage the original?

I would like to keep my manageable and attractive, and I know that goes contrary to how they grow naturally.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: nipa palm fruit
« on: March 09, 2018, 07:57:30 PM »
good to hear you got them going on your pond, can I ask for more information on how you got them going and what depth? 

For example should I plant on the side of the pond and should the seed be under water or above water line?

Fruit Quality varies with age like coconut.When in Thailand I ate them fresh pretty good,my sister in law makes a Philippine fruit salad with them that's awesome
Cool palm I just planted some at my pond ,growing pretty good if the alligators stay off them!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / nipa palm fruit
« on: March 09, 2018, 09:53:09 AM »
collected some sprouted nipa palm fruit today, near my pond I will dig some trenches, so the palm will be at water level and underwater possibly for a few months per year.   Hopefully takes!    I would love to start making my own nipa vinegar and the fruits are good for desserts.

These are self pollinating from what i was told, so relatively easy to fruit.  Not sure how many years until flowering.   Likely 3-5 like coconuts and sala.

Quite common here but finally right oppurtunity to harvest since water levels receded.  So was abke to just walk into the swamp, and to my luck seeds are sprouting beautifully!

that's a great video, and glad I could understand what they were saying, some the other Thai videos the accent is impossible to understand.  I wonder what this type of graft is called?  It is half air layer, half graft.

Also they are not 'roots' or maybe you know that, but unless somebody else didn't get it.  Those are seedlings, he recommended to use only a large seed variety of mango.  So that last graft has 5 or 6 rootstocks grafted on!!  It seems like that Mango would be more healthy than a normal seed grown mango.

Sadly these types of multiple root grafts on large diameter stock are rare, I have only seen some farmers doing it (for sale) with Pak Liang, a very easy to air layer tree that is grown for edible leaves.

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