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Messages - sahai1

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2 trees female and male,16-16-16 for 6 months now just letting the manure seep

papayas are heavy feeders,  they will use up most nutrients just get to 5' tall and get leaves, so just because they get up that tall and look healthy, they may have used up all nutrients available to get there.  E.g. just cause it looked good growing, doesn't mean it has enough to eat when it is ready to fruit.

So I was taught really put in 16-16-16 about a pound every month to help develop a big healthy trunk and root system, after that you can work in more organics.  I like to mound up sacks of manure and let them drip out every time there is a heavy rain.  I achieve this by creating a rock pile and stacking up the manure on top of that.  Otherwise it can burn out the leaves.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Overmulching?
« on: December 15, 2017, 09:34:57 PM »
keep at least 2-3 feet away from the tap root, and then go to town!  It will keep out weeds, but water it heavily and keep it from drying up and heating up.  Some woods have natural chemicals that you need to be aware of before mulching.  Eucalyptus keeps away insects, Ironwood and other pine needles kill grass.  The quicker the mulch breaks down the better it is for your trees.  It is very good to expand on what you are doing with the mulch, check the PH and add 46-0-0 if necessary.  Add dirt to the mulch and work it in every month turning it over.  Turn some into biochar, or just burn some in a 'sawdust stove' and use the ash to work in as fertilizer.  Mulch heavily, then remove it all add dirt, then remulch.  All in all the microorganisms will break up your soil, but just be careful it doesn't kill your trees.

Also some trees have berries and other things that aren't edible but would provide a great breeding ground for gnats and flies, especially heat will help to breed gnats.  Flooding the mulch will help with that.

Or just turn it into compost, pile it high, add grass, leaves, manure, and cover it.  Till it and work it together every month and water it as much as possible.  Although this is the most time consuming, after a few months you will have a more quality mulch that is safer to apply to trees.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Flowering/Seeding Sugarcane
« on: December 12, 2017, 08:31:26 PM »
yes that makes sense, just went through a 2 week monsoon, heavy rain or cloud cover all day and low nighttime temps down to 23-25 degrees C.

This one likely flowered because the thinning stressed it.  The other clumps haven't flowered. 

Just wondering if the inflorescence is sterile, or if I may get seed.  Guess I'll just wait and see, nobody seems to crossbreed cane on this forum.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Flowering/Seeding Sugarcane
« on: December 12, 2017, 01:46:22 AM »
Don't think I've ever seen sugarcane flower that I can remember.. briefly read on google that most sugarcane is sterile from hybridization.  Is the appearance of flowers mean that it will seed?  If so any tips, thanks.  This clump of sugarcane was planted 4 years ago from a cutting.   The other clumps have not flowered, the difference I think is that I routinely thin this clump for juicing, but the others I just let spread out.

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Royal Palm tree question
« on: December 10, 2017, 09:25:20 PM »
For palms it is very important to also see the leaves, and how they break at the end or fold

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White jack fruit
« on: December 10, 2017, 09:23:47 PM »
I'm pretty sure it is Marang as well, some sellers before actually had some pictures on their sales posts which included pictures of Marang.  When I pointed out that the fruit in the picture was Marang, they deleted the post.

edit.. thinking of a different plant.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Asian banana varieties (small)
« on: December 09, 2017, 09:50:38 PM »
super dwarf namwa, fun for the kids

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Asian banana varieties (small)
« on: December 09, 2017, 09:45:50 PM »
there are small trees, and there are also small fruit... anything with the keyword Dwarf will be small tree.  Dwarf Williams is a much better performer than Dwarf Namwa for the size, much more resilient.  However I have a lot of Dwarf Namwa planted, and they will go super dwarf if you don't prune back suckers, however the more dwarf they go the smaller the bananas and smaller the racks will be.  Talking about 2-3 bunches per rack at 3 feet tall.  Pruned Dwarf Namwa will be more like 7-8 bunches per rack.  Dwarf Namwa taste is excellent, however when they are most beautiful they are only  semi-ripe, they need to blacken a bit to be fully ripe, very thin skin when fully ripe.  They have a very sweet taste with very little starch when ripe.  When semi-ripe they are bit latexy, but at that stage they are good for cleaning your digestive tract.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Banana/Plantain Macropropagation
« on: December 09, 2017, 08:26:00 PM »
Nice, this technique seems much easier than tissue culture, but I think I would just cut into 4th's and prune back to one shoot, don't need that many.  There is some debate here in Thailand about why some tissue cultured bananas are going to seed with many people saying it is because wild bananas are being planted nearby, but I think it is the mutated genes reverting... so another good thing about this technique is that it would likely not cause mutation.

I think will try this method someday, I spent a lot of money this year researching and finding every good seedless strain of banana in Thailand, even more than can be found on this site:

Some of the most expensive edible corms in Thailand are Namwa Dam (black Namwa), Tepanom (praying hand), Mahoi (double-triple flower Cavendish), and Elephant Banana (Tiparod sp.).

The Fe'i looks really cool, looks like there are many different kinds.  I have a variety of Gluay Hin, Saba - that has the same squarish angular fruits, but it is yellow which usually turns to black.  Recently cut down most of these and filled over, they are coming back up though.  They are difficult to ripen in my climate without turning completely black. 

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Ensete ventricosum
« on: December 07, 2017, 05:10:32 AM »
on the tangent, yes all banana hearts are edible, however you would have to stew them very long, and there is very little soft heart, the rest is very stringy and hard to chew.  Like coconut hearts, palm hearts, bamboo shoots, artichoke hearts, there is the 'softest' and best part which is at the very center, and then the quality degrades the further you go out.  I feed my pig whole banana trees, and the pig eats them as something to do with her day.  Here, some commercial pig farmers will chop up bananas and boil with feed.

Your average dwarf williams, or other large stalk dwarf banana only produces a heart about the size of a banana.  It is not commonly consumed.. like your post, it is a famine food. 

Thanks for your interesting post, never heard of that type, but here have Ensete glaucum, that does not have suckers.  The flowers have some herbal tradition.  I have over 20 types of unique bananas, but I stay away from anything with seed.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lansium parasiticum Aka duku or langsat
« on: December 07, 2017, 01:51:30 AM »
Ordered in 5 trees today, Longgong Yongmas grafted onto Langsat from seed.  Directly from Narithiwat, so my Yawi Longgong coming straight from the Yawi source.  A bit more money then buying locally, but the trees looked bigger and healthier, and prefer it coming from a Yawi in Narithiwat. 

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Edible Flowers!
« on: December 07, 2017, 01:46:44 AM »
On my farm only have these flowers that I use..
Anchan - Clitoria ternatea - made in Tea, contains natural steroids..  Now there is a much more productive variety with layered petals like roses and doesn't seed... I also have the original Anchan which is not as productive but self seeds itself everywhere. 
Pumpkin flowers - some people stirfry
Roselle - technically a flower.. good for tea
Kare Flower - Sesbania grandiflora - this is a tree, very productive flowers all year, very tolerant and hardy, good for soups
Neem flowers - these are eaten raw, if you can handle the bitterness!  This one is past my limit of tolerance, but mother in law can eat a whole plate

Also technically the banana flowers should be steeped in water first and rinsed of latex.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lansium parasiticum Aka duku or langsat
« on: December 06, 2017, 09:45:25 PM »
summary... it seems that Langsat is not a tree you want to plant, but Longgong is, which are both officially Lansium parasiticum, and Longgong is the same as Duku. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lansium parasiticum Aka duku or langsat
« on: December 05, 2017, 08:50:37 PM »
Sorry just notice that google translate is butchering some stuff, Wollonggong.. is Longong.
Maybe be confusing but in English Longon is 'dragoneye' , but in Thai is Lamyai... very confusing stuff, not sure who did the original transliteration.

Anyways long story short, in the blog states Longgong (a subspecies of Langsat) is the best quality.  So where my nursery is selling Longgong Yongmas grafted onto Langsat, Yongmas is likely Yawi language for this semi-seedless no latex variety of Langsat.

The blog's scientific reasoning is that Longgong (possibly Longgong Yongmas) is Lansium domesticum Corr ----ซึ่งพืชที่อยู่ในชนิดเดียวกันนี้คือ ดูกู (duku) Which is a synonym for Duku.  And then Langsat is A. Domesticum Pelleg ส่วนลังสาด (ลางสาด) แยกเป็นชนิดหนึ่งต่างหาก โดยมีชื่อวิทยาศาสตร์ว่า A. Domesticum Pelleg

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lansium parasiticum Aka duku or langsat
« on: December 05, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »
From what I have seen on the market here, been considering planting Langsat, there is the 'common' variety, which they graft Longgong on top of.  In Thai Langsat and Longgong are two distinct species.  And in Thailand also divided further into different species, if you check this blog and put it through the google translate button in Chrome I think some good information:

In specific, my local nursery is marketing Longgong Yongmas  which is grafted onto Longgong Ban (House/Common Longgong)

ลองกองตันหยงมัสเสียบยอด เพาะเมล็ดจากลองกองบ้าน

Here is the text run through google translate from the blog, I don't have time to correct it, it is semi-readable:

 Longkong is a species of tree with Langsad, with thick bark and no rubber like langsat. Less meat But with a sweet taste. Scientific name is Lansium domesticum Corr, which is the same species is Duku (duku), the sun (Lang) is a separate species. The name is A. Domesticum Pelleg. The name of the Wollongong comes from the language of Yew
"Wollongong" of the city of Narathiwat.  .

       Wollongong and Langsang are the same fruit trees. It is divided into 3 groups:
       1. Wollongong The best quality seed with little or no seeds. The leaves are very similar to the dark green. And deep groove. It seems like that. Leaf wavy The group is divided into three types.
       - Dried Wollongong is cooked with a glass of sweet meat and sweet aroma. The thick shell is dark yellow and no rubber
       - Wollongong ripe juice is quite juicy. Bright yellow bark
       - Longkong Palawan or Wollongong Ripe fruit is soft. The smell is not like the water. Thin crust and a thin rubber 
       2. Dooku or Telugu leaves quite thick. And dark green like Wollongong. But less wavy The result is quite large. It has a thicker bark than Wollongong. There are many seeds and juicy juices found there are two types.
       - DuPer Perfume has a slightly rejuvenated skin, slightly wrinkled skin.
       - Duo water effect is quite round. The skin is more
       durable than Doug . 3. Lang Bang thin than Wollongong. Wave is not pronounced Smaller than Wollongong Ripe fruits are yellowish. The thin shell has a rubbery, 2-3 seeds per 
       plant. The fruit of the tropical rainforest. In Southeast Asia Thailand is the country that can produce the best quality of Wollongong.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Matoa (Pometia Pinnata)
« on: December 03, 2017, 12:16:36 AM »
I have one tree, not sure if it is grafted or seed.. have to take a closer look.  Spent quite a bit on it here, above average for nursery trees.  In Thailand it is marketed as "Lamyai Crystal" -- ลำไยคริสตัล  more than plenty on the market now.  Lamyai = Longan.

It seems to be doing fairly well with the weather and rain at my place, in potting soil now, mix of cow manure, coconut husk, composted chicken manure and rice hulls, and crushed rock.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Spondias germination
« on: November 29, 2017, 05:29:03 AM »
I got 4 Spondias pinnata growing from seed now.  My favorite type of leaves for eating.  I imagine germinates well in heavy moist shaded mulch 12" thick, much like you would do for a mango.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First soursop flower.
« on: November 18, 2017, 04:48:31 AM »
My tree in 3rd of 4th year, 100 or so flowers passed through, no fruit set yet.  Been taking advice on forum read before and trying to attract bugs, but so far dealing with the tree ants who keep coming back to the tree to build a nest.  They seem to be guarding the flowers now, as if the pollination wasn't difficult enough already.

Sugar Apple trees on other side of property fruiting well, perhaps since my soursop is seed grown it is waiting on some genetic code to produce...

Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Pond edible plants
« on: November 17, 2017, 01:05:43 AM »

Cannas (of the right sorts) have edible young shoots and the rhizomes are starchy and a bit crisp in texture. Could plant them along the borders. Same deal with the water table - as long as it remains accessible to their roots, they're good.


Elderberry, also! It likes moist soil, and in the right parts of the world can be found growing along rivers, streams, seasonal creeks, etc. It needs to be a bit back and elevated over the nearby water source.

I never knew Cannas are edible, how do you eat them?  What is the right sort?  Are you growing Elderberry in Puna?  I read they need a chill to fruit, so I passed on purchasing some trees a while back.  I figured they were marketed for the north of Thailand, and I'm deep south, weather is much like Puna, only 5-10 degrees hotter during the dry season.

I planted 2 so far, 2 are waiting to be planted.  Mine were grafted to Pommelo root stock I believe.   Planted two in full sun, however the house blocks the sun from 12-4 pm, so that may help. I planted in sandy loam, they are doing well after 2 months, and they put out lots of new leaves after each rain just like all my other citrus.

I really need something that grows to a height of about two stories and is 'set and forget' so to speak, but I wouldn't mind some pigeon pea due to its sheer utility. Do you eat the peas themselves or just use the plant for green manure crops/mulch?

You can never forget about bamboo, it requires maintenance, even clumping ones spread, just easier contained because they don't run underground, so you can get at the shoots easily.  Bananas are clumpers.. and they can spread out 5-6 feet over 2-3 years if untouched.

You may consider Red Gum Eucalyptus or Casuarina equisetifolia, both would supply you with hardwood and are salt, drought, and flooding tolerant.  Or you could research some other hardwoods like Rosewood.  First two could trim every 5 years for firewood, rosewood you could begin to harvest in 30 years.

From the east morning sun coming through screen, midday afternoon and evening all get sun but through 60% tinted glass.  The whole front of office is U shaped and all 60% tint glass.  So don't think citrus would do well, but from what I read.. trees don't care about tint?  They just need certain rays of the sun?  Anybody else growing indoors with tinted windows?

Some trees thriving under shade cloth now at my house are Cacao, Coffee, and Brugmansia.
I figure there is definitely enough room for 2 trees in here that won't block the areas I need to walk to.  Also the roof is 6-8 meters sloped, but not sure if trees would like it up near the roof since no sun up there.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Nephelium hypoleucum - Korlan
« on: November 06, 2017, 09:15:43 PM »
ok Thanks, I'll pass on planting that then, got limited space and I'm in the lowlands.

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