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Messages - sahai1

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it looks like the Affinis fruit is not hairy/spiny on the fruit, skin is generally like thw Bali in texture?  scaly, but rubbing down the grain is generally smooth?

Hows the taste comparison with Java?  Are your affinis from Indonesia, malasia or other?

Your comcerns about fruit setting is the same as most Thai farmers, even professionals.   

I don't take my time when reading Thai, but I read 4 things which may help you. 
1. Thai farmers consider some males to be sterile, and they usually have a preferred 'stud' tree to colllect male flowers. 

2. One is put in a bottle and the bottle is placed over the female flower and shook.

3.  Since salacca is a "root ball" type of plant it's most productive with one mother and 2 keiki/suckers.  (just what i read)

4.   Some varities just set fruit better, its in the genes.

I am going to try and visit 2 Sumalee farms today, if learn anything else I'll share.

Have you ever made Jurinsee, enzyme fertilizer?  it's like vinegar.  chopped banana or fruit fermented with molasses?  This causes a huge increase in flowering and fruit setting.   

roadtrip to Phattalung maybe tomorrow, visit 2 Sumalee farms, if they have suckers I want some!! 

On this website which is usually reliable it says specifically twice, no shoots, no new trees with Sumalee:
สละชนิดผลสั้น จากการค้นหาข้อมูลมีผู้ให้ชื่อว่า สละสุมาลี ลักษณะทรงต้นเดี่ยวๆ ไม่มีหน่อใหม่หรือต้นใหม่เพิ่ม
That is how Sumalee is clearly identified.  I'll do some more research into this.  If Sunalee is best, then seedlings would have to br cross pollinated from good stock.  Perhaps Sunalee is grown in Trat, I read that is where the best Sala comes from.

So in summuray alp Red Thai Sala is Sallaca Wallichiana?  Can it be crossbred with Ssllaca Zallaca?

how to those scientific names match up to the Thai names like on this website page, can you read Thai?

First brown one photographed is what Thais called Sala Indo - which may match up with Salak Pondoh naming.  Which is Salacca Zallaca right?

Second group of pictures just introduces Thai forms and their common names สละ หรือ ระกำหวาน หรือ ส้มกำ เรียกในบางพื้นที่ทางภาคใต้  - Sala, Sweet Ragum, Orange Gum (in the south most slightly sour fruits start with the word Som - Orange, e.g. SomNao = Manao)

So Third set of pictures introduces: สละสุมาลี ลักษณะทรงต้นเดี่ยวๆ ไม่มีหน่อใหม่หรือต้นใหม่เพิ่ม - Sala Sumalee, which is identified by not having suckers.  In the picture it is rounded and plump.

Fourth set of pictures ลักษณะทรงต้นคล้ายระกำมาก บางท่านให้ชื่อ สละเนินวง - Trees looks like Ragum (sour Sala) name is Nernnuang - I think this is maybe the Red Sala I mentioned originally in my post.

The last set of pictures is ส่วนต้นนี้ สละไร้หนาม หรืออีกชื่อว่า สะกำ เรียก สละหม้อ - Sala Mor, which doesn't have thorns on the tree or fruit?  I guess they mean tree as the pictures still show the thorny hairs on the fruit.

Please note the captions are at the end of the sets of photographs.

What do you think the scientific names are for Nerngnuang, Sala Mor, and Sumalee?

yes I wouldn't doubt that, if you wouldn't mind could you post some pictures of your trees and fruits, would like to see what your Red Salak looks like, and you are sure yours is Salak Affinis?  How are you planting the palms in distance and are you getting suckers, if so are you allowing them to grow?

Are you self pollinating by hand, or can the job be done by bees or flies?

Sorry for so many questions!  I'm in the tropical lowlands, so I thinking maybe cull my starfruit, roseapple, noni, etc... and just go full on Red Salak!

Looks alot like the Sala Pondoh, I don't know a lot about Salak because I don't have any mature trees.  In the original photo the fruit looked very hairy, but not so much in the last photo. 

I like that kind too, but if you eat side by side with the Red Sweet Sala, just no comparison, trust me!  Red is so juicy and is just full of flavor, I guess it could be measured by Brix as well and would likely test twice as sweet.

Is that Salak Bali?  Self pollinating, looks different from Sala Indo I recently ate, yours has more hairs, I think Sala Indo in Thai is same as Salak Pondoh...

How's the taste?  Have you had sweet red?  If I didn't have sweet red I would've said that Sala Pondoh is excellent, but if ate side by side the Red beats it in taste no second thoughts.

might want to start off with guesses why they died, were they slow or instant deaths?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What are some flood tolerant trees?
« on: October 27, 2017, 08:31:51 PM »
also forgot - starfruit, cashew, edible bamboo, all good for wet feet and flooding.

Coconuts, bananas, and bamboo are all winner in my opinion for next to water. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What are some flood tolerant trees?
« on: October 27, 2017, 08:26:23 PM »
my priperty is a living example of what cam grow in tropical lowlands.  Conditioms would be floodimg wvery year from 2" to 3', and several months of high water table (wet feet).  My lost:
Bananas -  survive but not thrive, must have root ball established, new plantings will rot
Mangoes - no visisble issue, seed grown root stock
Soursop - no isssues, seed grown
coconuts - occasional trunk splitting (too much water uptake)
Mulberry - Wilting, survives but basically just waiting for good conditions to grow again
Sapodilla - wet feet currently no problem, no comment on flooding yet
Jackfruit - instant death by wet feet
Durian - instant death by wet feet
Dragonfruit - wilting rotting death by wet feet
Santol - no issues seed grown
Citrus - no issues, perhaps some fruiting issues, but fruiting always picky about anything
Pineapple - no issues - 2 week underwater - no issues
Bilimbi - no issues
Roseapple - no issues
Star gooseberry - no issues
Papaya - death by wet feet
Pomegranate - once established high rate of survival
Cacao - death by flooding
Custard Apple - highly tolerant of both wet feet and flooding once established

also likely some others on my property

Any grafts will likely get diseased when flooding if underwater

Jackfruit - I think waste your time, dont like wet feet, water too close.  8 years do you want to cull because of disease?

Can they all be used as cross pollinators?  Sala indo, sweet red sala, Lagum?

All three of these were grown in Thailand.  I have read some threads on here about Salak Bali, but verified with grower of Sala Indo that Sala Indo is definitely not self pollinatimg, so different varitety.

What is Sagum?  Are we using Thai or  Engliah?  I know Ragum is a spcies name but in Thai sour Sallaca are called 'Lagum'.  Sour Lagum may be wild but the price of it outperforms durian sonetimes at 80 baht/kg

Like I mentioned before the sweet red Sala I ate looks exactly the same as sour 'Lagum' .. skin peeling off, slender, long, etc.  Sumalee pictures I saw showed them as a bit short and plump.  Inthink the red one is similar to Namnerng, and the seller may have been confused about what the red one was called.

The only round Sallaca I've seen are the ones I posted in the pic above as Sala Indo Black.  Very plain

Not too long, within 2-3 years, I read if you are seeing woody stem at the trunk then you are approaching flowering.  The male and female flowers are easily distinguishable from each other, so you can identify gender, however I have read from many Thai people that the cross pollinating is a major factor in discontinuing to grow Sala, and switching to rubber or palm oil.  So I think self pollinating species is best way to go!

I'm very interested to know if the different subspecies can be used as cross pollinators especially the self fertile ones, obviously seed stock would be no good, but it would beat saving male flowers in bottles and doing the rounds.

For me in the worst case, I think I can deal with cutting male flowers and bottling them and putting them in the fridge and doing the rounds in the mornings..

Yes it is the best in my opinion, the seller just called it Sala Nampeung.  It is very strange because nobody is selling this kind now.  The market for seedlings is full of Sala Indo Nampeung.

The red one looks exactly like sour "Lagum" so buyer beware. :)

Very sweet, very juicy, and occasionally seedless!  However it is quick to ferment like pineapple (still edible like overripe pineapple) and the fruit sticks to the seed. It has a slight tartness that makes the juicy sweetness so much better, the juicyness and flavorfullness is what makes it better than any kind of Sala Indo in my opinion.

I need to try some more of the Red sweet ones.. I don't think I've ever tried Namnerng or Sumalee, I'm curious how much of an actual difference the sweet sala have. The Thai people have a habit of hyping up regional growing areas and renaming cultivars after the region, even though the species is the same.  Chumpon Banana is a great example of that. or Bangmot Oranges.

Ok try again on pictures...

In my opinion the Sala Nampeung looks exactly like the Sour Lagum strain, including size, color, shape, etc... perhaps the palm trees would show some difference.

These are addictive, while reaching for these to take the pictures I finished off all the Sala Nampeung, the big black Indonesians I can wait to eat.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: JUNGLE SOP helpless!!
« on: October 25, 2017, 07:57:39 AM »
looks like originally they had good heat for breaking the hard shell, but now are struggling.  Perhaps some chopped coconut fiber and moist heat will help

I have stayed away from Salacca for the most part in Thailand, because usually what you see in the markets is sour and used for cooking like limes.  So they are not bad, but just like limes you don't eat them alone.  I believe this is Salacca wallichiana variety.  And I also believe but not sure that in Thai this sour variety must be referred to as "Lagum."  Again I repeat, new knowledge I'm learning here so feel free to correct me.

And so there is another kind, "Sala".  Which I just realized is basically the same species as "Lagum" just a different variety, so they can be crossbred or used as cross pollinators... But when I want to find "Sweet" Salacca I should be looking for "Sala" and not "Lagum."

So for the last few months I have been bombarded by posts in my facebook groups of sales of "Sala Indo" which I believed was what some people have referred to on this forum as Salak Bali, which is self pollinating.  But I found out today that "Sala Indo" is not self pollinating.  Today I was in the deep south near the border of Malaysia in Trang, and found "Sala Nampeung (Honey)", "Sala Indo Black" and "Sala Indo Brown"  The brown Indonesian was smaller and more pointed then the Black.  The Sala Nampeung looks almost identical to the sour "Lagum" however the taste is excellent!

I bought 1 kg of each kind, and went through that all today.

The Sala Indo Black is very plain in my opinion, neither sour or sweet, edible though unlike Lagum.  It is very large though.  I would not plant this in my opinion, I ate quite a few at different stages, and even the sweetest of the bunches could not compare to the other two.  It is a bit dry.

Second place would be the Sala Indo Brown, which is also a bit plain but has fruity hints of like a green apple, but a green apple would be more sour tasting than this. It is also a bit dry.

First place, Sala Namepeung, or Honey Salak.  Now I must admit.. I have seen pictures of brown and black Indonesian Salak being called Sala Nampeung Indo, or similar.. so this is definitely a source of confusion.  But for reference it is skinny, the skin peels right off and does not stick at all, it is red in color, and usually contains 2 seeds, occasionally 3, and sometimes seedless.  It is very sweet, very flavorful, very juicy, and there is a hint of sourness, but it only accentuates the sweetness like a great pineapple.  The slight sour tinge is not astringent like in Lagum, and I am a good judge of that because I have sensitive teeth.  In fact I stay away from all limes, lemons, and bilimbi in my garden as these do open up the enamel on my teeth very fast.  So in summary, not astringent, but sour notes are present.

If anybody can point me to some verifiable information on Sala Nampeung, like species name and so on please help.  Also some people have said this variety is self-pollinating, so that would be great, as currently I'm interested in only planting 5-6 trees in between coconut trees.

just planted mine, put it in a established cutting in full sun, and lucky enough had very brisk and cool weather for 2 weeks and lots of rain.  It was ok with the slightly soggy conditions, but water never sat 'on' top of soil.  But for sure water table must have saturated the roots.

In any case, finally new growth, nice light color leaves, and fruit! 

I was apprehensive because of the post in this thread above which mentioned it as a useless weed. However upon tasting I was very pleased.  I would even go as far as to say it is more of a peanut butter and jelly fruit, it was fruity to me, but definitely with the creamy nutty texture of 'skippy' creamy peanut butter.

I don't know if I'll need more than one bush, but it it is definitely just as snackable as mulberries. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Red Skin Papaya, Real or Not?
« on: October 20, 2017, 08:18:56 AM »

trying to add image but having no luck

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Red Skin Papaya, Real or Not?
« on: October 20, 2017, 08:18:32 AM »
saw some seeds for sale... is this up there with blue watermelon or is this for real? 

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: wanted:Brazil Nut
« on: October 20, 2017, 08:11:07 AM »
awesome, I'm interested then too!  how many years until fruiting?

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: wanted:Brazil Nut
« on: October 19, 2017, 08:55:35 AM »
they will grow similar to Velvet Tamarind, Takien, too tall for me, and doesn't look like the type of tree that can be pruned.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Looking for - "in Thailand"
« on: October 13, 2017, 09:26:45 AM »
ruby red found!  thanks

There are plenty on the market now here in southern Thailand, pricing 300-600 baht depending on size, they are grafted onto another seed grown stock.  I had one graft, it mysteriously died overnight.  I don't know anybody here that is shipping to Vietnam though, but if you fly to Nakhon Si Thammaratt, there is one seller with 100's of grafts.

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