Author Topic: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?  (Read 10243 times)

TheWaterbug

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Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« on: October 17, 2014, 11:19:23 PM »
Hi! I have a passionfruit vine of unknown species. I grew it from a seed from a fruit off my mother's vine about 5 miles away, and she probably bought the vine from Home Depot or Lowes or a retailer like that around here in Los Angeles more than 10 years ago. The parent fruit look like this:



The parent vine like this:



and the seeds like this:



It sure looks like Passiflora Edulis, but I don't like to assume anything! Anyway, I didn't get the cuttings to take, so I sowed the seeds in April 2013, got a  seedling a few months later, and transplanted it into the ground in January 2014. It grew vigorously this summer, and now it's about 35 feet from end to end. I've had a few bursts of flowers:



but it's never set any fruit. Are all purple passion fruits self-fertile? CFRG says "Purple passion fruit is self-fruitful", but this article says of p. edulis that "The flowers contain both male and female parts but are self-sterile".

I'm inclined to believe CFRG over SF Gate, but it has me worried. Posts here on TFF are conflicted.

Do I have to hand-pollinate? If I do hand-pollinate, can I use pollen from the same flower?

I only have the one vine, so I can't cross it with anything right now. My mother does have  a few seedlings from her (expired :() vine that I could plant for next year if that would help.
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Mike T

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2014, 11:33:52 PM »
It is a Passiflora edulis alright and they are self fertile and self fruitfull.Humidity and pollinators are  important for successfulfruit set and outcrossing would probably improve the yield. Hand pollination is not difficult and using a few flowers will make sureat least one has pollen at the right stage.

Das Bhut

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2014, 04:58:19 PM »
I have a yellow passionfruit that's prone to lower yields than the purple type and it's been doing fine thanks to ants

PltdWorld

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 02:56:51 AM »
Home Depot sells La Verne propagated "Frederick", which look similar to fruit/flowers in your photos.  I thought I read somewhere that Frederick was an unstable hybrid and seeds would not come true - fwiw I planted a bunch of seeds out to see what would happen - flowers look almost identical to parent, fruit are slightly smaller but same color (deep purple).

Mike T

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 07:20:52 AM »
Yellows can be crazy prolific and the equal of any commercial edulis.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 03:36:24 PM »
Home Depot sells La Verne propagated "Frederick", which look similar to fruit/flowers in your photos.  I thought I read somewhere that Frederick was an unstable hybrid and seeds would not come true
:o :o

I have seen "Frederick" on the labels of passionfruit vines at Home Depot and Lowe's, so my Mom's vine probably was a Frederick.

So now I have an "unstable" offspring that might go crazy and kill me at any moment.

But seriously; do you have a reference on how Frederick offspring behave?

Quote
fwiw I planted a bunch of seeds out to see what would happen - flowers look almost identical to parent, fruit are slightly smaller but same color (deep purple).

So are your vines self-fertile? How does the fruit taste?

Also, what's the difference between "self-fertile" and "self-fruitful?"
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Eirlis

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 04:42:19 PM »
I have two fredericks I planted 2 years ago and 2 yellows I planted this year. The Fredericks set about 10 fruits last year, but 0 this year despite lots of flowers. I wonder of the pollinators were absent this year? Next year I will try hand pollinating.


PltdWorld

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 07:55:57 PM »
Home Depot sells La Verne propagated "Frederick", which look similar to fruit/flowers in your photos.  I thought I read somewhere that Frederick was an unstable hybrid and seeds would not come true
:o :o

I have seen "Frederick" on the labels of passionfruit vines at Home Depot and Lowe's, so my Mom's vine probably was a Frederick.

So now I have an "unstable" offspring that might go crazy and kill me at any moment.

But seriously; do you have a reference on how Frederick offspring behave?

Quote
fwiw I planted a bunch of seeds out to see what would happen - flowers look almost identical to parent, fruit are slightly smaller but same color (deep purple).

So are your vines self-fertile? How does the fruit taste?

Also, what's the difference between "self-fertile" and "self-fruitful?"

My seedlings from Frederick have grown with approx same vigor as parent.  A single vine overtook a 5' tall chainlink fence, spreading approx 15' in one growing season. single vine.  It fruited well, but not as prolifically as the mother vine.  Fruits were approx half the size.  Those could be environmental conditions (soil, light, water) as they are in a different location.  I did not eat them - had thousands of Frederick fruit to contend with.

Doubtful they will attack you, but almost guaranteed they will make quick work of any lattice or chainlink you put in their way.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
Here's a follow-up. I have fruit set!



I have only a handful across my 35' of vine, but it's early in the season, I think.

My original question about self-fertility/fruitility/futility is somewhat moot, because last year my Mom panicked and bought me a Frederick vine from the store that was "guaranteed to fruit." Note that the fruit above is on my unstable-hybrid-from-seed, but I can't tell whether it's setting fruit because the vine is more mature than last year or because it's getting pollen from the store-bought vine 20' away.

I have flowers, but no fruit yet on that "guaranteed to fruit" vine yet, but it's small--only about 8 wide.

So I suppose I don't really care about why, as long as I get fruit. But I'm still curious. I could run an experiment and pick off all the flowers from my store-bought vine, but I'm not _that_ curious.
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Triloba Tracker

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2015, 05:24:53 PM »
I have a yellow passionfruit that's prone to lower yields than the purple type and it's been doing fine thanks to ants

Timely comment.....so I should leave the ants on my Passiflora incarnata alone?

fyliu

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 08:52:43 PM »
I don't think ants contribute significantly to pollination. They're attracted to the glans on the base of leaves which secrete nectar. The reproductive parts on passiflora flowers are too far apart for ants though.

Wait, how big are the ants we're talking about? I could be wrong if the ants areally big. I have only small ants here.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 02:23:26 AM »
These ones could probably do it:


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Triloba Tracker

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 07:20:39 AM »
I don't think ants contribute significantly to pollination. They're attracted to the glans on the base of leaves which secrete nectar. The reproductive parts on passiflora flowers are too far apart for ants though.

Wait, how big are the ants we're talking about? I could be wrong if the ants areally big. I have only small ants here.

Right - they are really small black ants and they are congregating at the base of the leaves mainly. Thanks!

xyzm

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 10:35:53 AM »
Nice pictures !

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2015, 04:34:29 PM »
Here's a follow-up. I have fruit set!


So a couple of these dropped this week, so I bought some premium vanilla ice cream in anticipation of a glorious debut. They were small, but they were purple, and I wasn't going to get picky because it was my precious vine that I'd nursed from seed over 2+ years:


I cut them open, and then wept tears of bitter anguish:



If the rest of the crop looks like this then I'll just cull the vine and let my "true" Frederick (15' away) take over. The Frederick is growing nicely and making some goose-egg sized fruit, but none of those are turning color yet.

Or maybe I should give my unstable vine one more season to redeem itself.

If I do cull it, should I leave the well-established rootstock in the ground and graft my true Frederick onto it?

Or am I making this way too complicated?
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miracle

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2015, 12:43:45 PM »
These passion fruits are very easy to root.  Why do you want to graft to your seedling?
Just cut a branch on your mother's plant or any desired passion fruit you can get a branch, then put in potting soil in a shade place. They will root in no time :-)
The fruits will be 100% identical to their parent.  Good luck.
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barath

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2015, 01:07:19 PM »
One thing to consider is that Frederick is a cross of a flavicarpa and a straight edulis, and some flavicarpas seem to be self-infertile.  So you could be seeing the self-infertility of the parent.  My sweet Lilikoi (flavicarpa) seems self-infertile, and so last year I got low yields because I realized that too late (and only hand pollinated a couple of flowers); this year I'm getting few flowers so I'm going to get low yields again.  Frederick produces tons of pollen (compared to Black Knight, which is straight edulis and doesn't produce much), so you might try using it as a pollen source to hand pollinate your seedling.

Bees seem to be generally uninterested in the passionflowers for me -- maybe there's too much other stuff they prefer around.  Wasps like the nectar, but ignore the flowers.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 05:57:44 PM »
These passion fruits are very easy to root.  Why do you want to graft to your seedling?
Just cut a branch on your mother's plant or any desired passion fruit you can get a branch, then put in potting soil in a shade place. They will root in no time :-)
The fruits will be 100% identical to their parent.  Good luck.

The only reason I'd think to graft is that the seedling has nearly 2 years of root system growth on it already. The trunk is nearly an inch in diameter, so any grafted plant would have plenty of resources.

But I certainly don't need a second plant, because the store-bought Frederick is only 15' away, and is catching up fast. I counted 25 good-sized fruit this morning (none coloring yet), so I'd expect good production from it when the vine puts on some growth.

I suppose I just have some emotional attachment to the seedling because I grew it :D
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TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 05:59:57 PM »
One thing to consider is that Frederick is a cross of a flavicarpa and a straight edulis, and some flavicarpas seem to be self-infertile.  So you could be seeing the self-infertility of the parent.  My sweet Lilikoi (flavicarpa) seems self-infertile, and so last year I got low yields because I realized that too late (and only hand pollinated a couple of flowers); this year I'm getting few flowers so I'm going to get low yields again.  Frederick produces tons of pollen (compared to Black Knight, which is straight edulis and doesn't produce much), so you might try using it as a pollen source to hand pollinate your seedling.

Interesting. I might try hand-pollinating some of my seedling's flowers with pollen from the store-bought Frederick and see if that makes any difference.

I found a third dropped fruit from the seedling this morning, and it is similarly empty. This puzzles me--I thought seeds were typically what induced fruit set and fruit growth. If there are no seeds (well, there are 3-4 really immature ovules), why did it set a fruit at all?
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Delvi83

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2015, 07:42:17 AM »
Differently from other Passifloras, the Passiflora edulis is often self-fertile and you don't need cross-pollination

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2015, 05:13:33 PM »
But I certainly don't need a second plant, because the store-bought Frederick is only 15' away, and is catching up fast. I counted 25 good-sized fruit this morning (none coloring yet), so I'd expect good production from it when the vine puts on some growth.

Aha! The Frederick dropped a fruit!



It was pretty good, though I wish I'd had 2-3 of them instead of just 1. The ice cream and the fresh strawberries  ;D nearly drowned it out. Pretty tart, but that's why I had the ice cream.
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barath

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2015, 01:18:30 AM »
It looks like your fruit is smooth when you're cutting it open (though it's a bit hard to tell).  I really like the flavor after waiting about a week after they've dropped, when they're really wrinkled.  Waiting tends to make them sweeter and more aromatic.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2015, 01:27:30 AM »
It looks like your fruit is smooth when you're cutting it open (though it's a bit hard to tell).  I really like the flavor after waiting about a week after they've dropped, when they're really wrinkled.  Waiting tends to make them sweeter and more aromatic.
It was my first one. I couldn't wait!

I'll wait neat time. Maybe I'll do a taste test between just-dropped and wait-a-week fruit.
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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2015, 02:03:26 AM »
Frederick is self fertile, but if you don't have the pollinators, you'll need to hand pollinate to get fruit set.  It took the pollinators (generally large bees, no honeybees, as I understand it) a couple of years to find my vine.  Now it sets hundreds of fruit without my help, but it didn't used to without me wandering about with a q-tip, playing pollinator.

Delvi83

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2015, 06:09:09 AM »
The Passiflora careulea is loved by bees, why shouldn't they love P. edulis?
I don't think there are pollination problems

TheWaterbug

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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2015, 12:39:43 PM »
The Passiflora careulea is loved by bees, why shouldn't they love P. edulis?
I don't think there are pollination problems

I would think the bees would love it, but I have a hive of 40,000 bees sitting 40' away from my two vines, and I have never seen a single bee on any of my passion flowers. They're my own bees, and I've told them where the flowers are, but they have no interest. They spend plenty of time in my squash patch, 20' away from the passiflora.
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Re: Is my passionfruit self-fertile?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2015, 02:43:55 PM »
i have a possum, purple.
it has gotten really large, but never flowered.
not from seed. shouldnt this be fruiting ?

i also have a maypop (incarnata) and it flowers
but, no fruit...
its gotten  really large as well.