Exploring natural or organic chelating agents (citric acid? oxalic acid?)

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I've always wondered if using citrus juice (mixed with your irrigation water) would act as a natural chelating agent?

maybe it would help combat poor soil pH? or poor water quality (like city water)?

also wondering about other things, maybe Oxalic acid from Carambola?  there seems to be an abundance of fallen fruit that goes to waste, maybe it can help plants that are struggling with pH issues (of being in neutral or alkaline environments, when they need acid).

also, what other items might help? 

EDIT: noticed an old thread where I touched on this subject before.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3735.msg52137#msg52137

[fyliu]

Don't know what I'm talking about, but natural stuff probably don't last as long as synthesized buffer solutions.

Vinegar possibly?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Don't know what I'm talking about, but natural stuff probably don't last as long as synthesized buffer solutions.

Vinegar possibly?

acetic acid for sure!  it can be used, but can burn plants if you use too much!

[mangaba]

How about using seeds recently removed from Moringa oleifera pods

[joehewitt]

The drip irrigation system for my blueberries injects vinegar into the water, and that has been very successful at keeping the plants happy. It spares me from having to keep acidifying the soil with sulfur or any other amendments. The resulting soil ph is probably around 5.5 which is on the high end for blueberries, but working fine.

When I put my new Jaboticaba trees in the ground (thanks Adam!), I'm going to put some of them on the vinegar drip line to see how they like it. Otherwise, my soil is a slightly alkaline sandy loam.

[cbss_daviefl]

Check out Table 1. Common synthetic and natural chelate compounds (ligands)

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs1208

[DesertDreamer]

Hey Joe, can you give some details on your vinegar drip system?  Have been thinking of doing something similar, but haven't been able to accomplish consistent dosing at low flow rates in a drip system.

[Mark in Texas]

Don't know what I'm talking about, but natural stuff probably don't last as long as synthesized buffer solutions.

Vinegar possibly?

True, but that doesn't stop a local large pick-ur-own strawberry and peach grower.  He injects citric acid into his irrigation lines. Me?  I prefer sulfuric. It's more stable and cheap if you buy by the 5 gallon box from an auto parts store.

Check out this local grower.  He is amazing.  http://www.marburgerorchard.com/

[BahamaDan]

Mark what do you use to measure the pH of your water after you add the acid?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

How about using seeds recently removed from Moringa oleifera pods

like crushing the seeds? and running the water through them like a charcoal filter?

[Cookie Monster]

Sulfur is natural. It's also cheap, easy to apply, and very effective. Just be cautious around annonas.

My "variegated" (as one neighbor called it) carambola, which looked horrible for about 8 years now looks pristine thanks to some sulfur.

It's magic. It just doesn't work on marl.

[Mark in Texas]

Mark what do you use to measure the pH of your water after you add the acid?

Hanna pH meter Checker 1.  Cheap on ebay.  You MUST have the calibration solutions.  I buy a liter of each which lasts a long time.

[BahamaDan]

Mark what do you use to measure the pH of your water after you add the acid?

Hanna pH meter Checker 1.  Cheap on ebay.  You MUST have the calibration solutions.  I buy a liter of each which lasts a long time.

Ok thanks. Funny you should mention calibration solution as I bought 4 7 and 10 pH solution along with some pH strips. They work perfect in the solutions but don't really register a change in my water, something about the TDS/EC being too low I guess. I'm gonna try the pH liquid indicator drops next since they don't seem to require that the solution have a lot of salts in order to give a good readout.

[Mark in Texas]

Ok thanks. Funny you should mention calibration solution as I bought 4 7 and 10 pH solution along with some pH strips. They work perfect in the solutions but don't really register a change in my water, something about the TDS/EC being too low I guess. I'm gonna try the pH liquid indicator drops next since they don't seem to require that the solution have a lot of salts in order to give a good readout.

You don't add them to what you're measuring.  You use them to calibrate your meter BEFORE measuring your water source. Use the 4.0 and 7.01. Don't need the 10.  Make sure and wash out the vessel with distilled water that holds the solutions, pour some of the 4.0 pH calibrating solution into the vessel, stick your probe in and turn the screw until it shows 4.0. May take up to a minute.  Dump, rinse, and repeat with the 7.0.

[Mark in Texas]

Correction from my buddy who has the large commercial op.  He wrote - "I do not inject citric acid into my irrigation water.  I use it in my orchard air blast sprayer to buffer the pH of the water to moderate the degredation of some pesticides."

I do know one particular large vineyard op which injects sulfuric acid into the irrigation system do drop the pH.  Not that my opinion matters but I think he's pissin' in the wind, you can't buffer such a calcareous soil and the water source.  The amount of lime in his soils is just too overwhelming for the acid to make any difference regarding production.