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Author Topic: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water  (Read 952 times)

00christian00

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Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« on: May 08, 2017, 04:04:10 PM »
I got several recalcitrant seed from Brazil and they were shipped in small bottle containing water. The shipment took roughly 20 days but I have read that seed cannot be stored for long in water. Do you think they are still viable?

fruitlovers

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 05:32:30 AM »
I got several recalcitrant seed from Brazil and they were shipped in small bottle containing water. The shipment took roughly 20 days but I have read that seed cannot be stored for long in water. Do you think they are still viable?

What kind of seed? Most seeds need oxygen. Probably not viable.
Oscar

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 05:46:47 AM »

What kind of seed? Most seeds need oxygen. Probably not viable.

Doesn't water hold oxygen?
The seeds sent in bottles are:

Platonia Insignis
Eugenia Dysenterica
Eugenia calycina
Mouriri pusa
Garcinia humilis (Achacha)
Garcinia Brasilensis (Bacupari)

fruitlovers

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 06:40:05 AM »

What kind of seed? Most seeds need oxygen. Probably not viable.

Doesn't water hold oxygen?
The seeds sent in bottles are:

Platonia Insignis
Eugenia Dysenterica
Eugenia calycina
Mouriri pusa
Garcinia humilis (Achacha)
Garcinia Brasilensis (Bacupari)
Most seeds, except ones that float down rivers, not designed to be in water for long time and still be able to sprout. Yes water is H2O, but that oxygen not readily accesible to plants designed to be above water.
Oscar

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 06:52:53 AM »
Most seeds, except ones that float down rivers, not designed to be in water for long time and still be able to sprout. Yes water is H2O, but that oxygen not readily accesible to plants designed to be above water.

So do you think they are all dead or there is chance some survived? Any of the species above should be fine in water?

fruitlovers

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 06:56:59 AM »
Most seeds, except ones that float down rivers, not designed to be in water for long time and still be able to sprout. Yes water is H2O, but that oxygen not readily accesible to plants designed to be above water.

So do you think they are all dead or there is chance some survived? Any of the species above should be fine in water?
I doubt any survived. Maybe the Platonia? Worth taking the chance and planting, not much to lose at this point. Wandering what company sent you seeds in a bottle of water? Maybe they are trying to evade detection? It is very difficult to send seeds legally out of Brazil now.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 06:59:14 AM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 07:48:47 AM »
Don't want to speak badly of somebody not on the forum, it was an honest mistake I think. I know he use the same method to ship in Brazil, but in that case shipment time is much shorter. I found them on Mercado libre.
It is not to evade customs, they were all labeled and there were several other seeds in normal plastic envelopes.

bsbullie

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 08:14:16 AM »
Don't want to speak badly of somebody not on the forum, it was an honest mistake I think. I know he use the same method to ship in Brazil, but in that case shipment time is much shorter. I found them on Mercado libre.
It is not to evade customs, they were all labeled and there were several other seeds in normal plastic envelopes.

How do you know why he did it?  How do you know he did it shipping within Brazil?  Why not ask why he did it?

Letting forum members know is not necessarily speaking bad about him but it would alert other who order from him in the future and possibly "educate" him of the potential problems doing this.  If nothing is said, you could be contributing to others ordering from him and getting seeds shilped via this method.
- Rob

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 08:28:58 AM »

How do you know why he did it?  How do you know he did it shipping within Brazil?  Why not ask why he did it?

Letting forum members know is not necessarily speaking bad about him but it would alert other who order from him in the future and possibly "educate" him of the potential problems doing this.  If nothing is said, you could be contributing to others ordering from him and getting seeds shilped via this method.

Cause he is a friendly person who had lot of patience with my order and he is not currently selling  internationally so should he want to start doing so I don't want to hurt his business for a mistake.
I know he did the same cause Mercado Libre(kinda like ebay) questions are all public and I saw his answer regarding shipment of certain seeds.
I already warned him of this and he confirmed he use this method for Brazil and doesn't know if it may have issue for longer period of travel.
Seeds are already in the soil since 2 weeks.



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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 06:06:04 PM »
Even for shipping inside Brazil, I believe that after 48 hours some seeds may start to get water logged and rot. But i don't know for sure as i've never experimented with that.
Oscar

Guanabanus

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 08:33:56 PM »
I wonder if he saturated the water with gaseous oxygen, as for shipping fish fingerlings?  [For fish, that is good for about three days.   Perhaps for seeds, which have a much slower metabolism, it would be good for quite a while longer?  I haven't actually heard of its being tried.]
Har

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2017, 04:08:46 PM »
Yesterday I was researching on ways to extend the life of mango seeds and maintain their viability.  if possible.  I came across this abstract from a report

Quote
Newly extracted mango seed germinated better than dried seed either at 1,3,5 or 7 days respectively. Nevertheless, seed without endocarp also germinated faster than seed with endocarp. The highest germination percentages were obtained from seeds treated with thiabendazole packing in plastic bag at 10-15 deg.celsius during 12 weeks storing periods.

Thiabendazole  I know is a fungicide, and parasitic,  plastic,  would retain moisture preventing the seed from drying out.   so in this practice, you keep the seed from drying out, and prevent fungal rot with the powder.

would something like this have worked better Christians situation?
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 05:38:22 PM »
He said for national shipment(1-2 weeks) it worked fine for him and has been doing this for a long time. So hopefully some are still alive, wish me good luck.
Yesterday I was researching on ways to extend the life of mango seeds and maintain their viability.  if possible.  I came across this abstract from a report

Quote
Newly extracted mango seed germinated better than dried seed either at 1,3,5 or 7 days respectively. Nevertheless, seed without endocarp also germinated faster than seed with endocarp. The highest germination percentages were obtained from seeds treated with thiabendazole packing in plastic bag at 10-15 deg.celsius during 12 weeks storing periods.

Thiabendazole  I know is a fungicide, and parasitic,  plastic,  would retain moisture preventing the seed from drying out.   so in this practice, you keep the seed from drying out, and prevent fungal rot with the powder.

would something like this have worked better Christians situation?
Are you suggesting I should have used a fungicide when it arrived? I doubt fungus is the problem here.

Tropicdude

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 11:11:05 PM »
No, I meant for shippers,  the report seems to suggest that seeds ( specifically mango ) can have a longer viability if just placed in plastic bags, with some fungicide.  and I was just asking the pros here if this would have helped in your scenario , if the shipper/seller would have done this with your seeds.

as far as your seeds go, only way to see if they are any good is to plant them,  I feel like the others in that I do not think storing seeds in plain water for weeks is a good idea.  but you might get lucky with some. 
William
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00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 09:48:52 AM »
Is this small bump on the right a sprout or a root about to come out? Pretty sure it wasn't there before.
It's an achacha seed.

By the way, is it better to give them light or put them in the dark? In general, not just achacha.


fyliu

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2017, 01:50:25 PM »
The generalized answer is to bury the seed one seed deep.

There are still plenty of exceptions to that. Some respond to warm temperature and will germinate better with light. Some tiny seeds only have a little bit of nutrient and require light as soon as they germinate to stay alive. Small seeds should not be buried deep.


00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2017, 02:30:43 PM »
Thanks! Just needed a general idea.

fruitlovers

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2017, 05:30:52 PM »
Is this small bump on the right a sprout or a root about to come out? Pretty sure it wasn't there before.
It's an achacha seed.

By the way, is it better to give them light or put them in the dark? In general, not just achacha.

Right kind of bump, but usually it should be at the end of the seed. Anyhow you will be able to tell in  a couple of days if it swells.
Oscar

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 09:35:27 AM »
Hi 00christian00!
Achacha can take up to 40 days before to germinate, as bacupari.

In my experience, I kept a lot of achacha seeds in water, inside my refridgerator, for more than 30 days and all germinated well after that time.
I can say the same about pitangatuba and pitanga.

Hancornia Speciosa was kept alive in pots with water, outside from refridgerator, for at least 10 days and all germinated well after that time.

With the other seeds you mentioned, I dont have experience.

Hope that helps. ;)

Guanabanus

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 05:04:57 PM »
One could also try adding an aquarium bubbler.
Har

Grapebush

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 05:13:59 PM »
For a few times I left seeds in water for a quite long period, and usually they germinate well. I' done this with a few types of Eugenias, Anonas, Lucuma, Garcinia xantochymus, and maybe others, and it always went ok.
Life is all about learning, but sometimes, the more you learn, the less you seem to know...

00christian00

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Re: Recalcitrant seeds stored in water
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2017, 06:54:16 PM »
For a few times I left seeds in water for a quite long period, and usually they germinate well. I' done this with a few types of Eugenias, Anonas, Lucuma, Garcinia xantochymus, and maybe others, and it always went ok.
That's reassuring to hear. I am mostly interested in saving bacupari(garcinia brasilensis) ,Eugenia dysenterica and Mouriri Pusa, the others were mostly filler orders and Achacha place is being filled by Luc's Garcinia seeds that just arrived...

 

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