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Author Topic: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed  (Read 841 times)

Ynk88

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ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« on: September 02, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »
Could someone try to identify this citrus tree grown from seed.

Normaly the seed should come from a tiny mandarin that had a good flavor.

But as I was not the one who sowed the seed, I'm not really sure if it really came from a mandarin fruit

The new growth is a bit hairy and the petiole wings go beneath the leaflet blade.

Thanks  :)














Sylvain

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 12:49:00 PM »
Not a mandarin with these winged petioles. The hairy new growths make me think of a pomelo.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 12:51:25 PM by Sylvain »

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 05:18:47 PM »
I also thought of a pomelo because of the hairy new growth, but I can't find a picture of a pomelo with petioles that looks like the ones on my tree.

Sylvain

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 05:23:40 PM »
You are right the petiole has very large wings, that's why I wrote 'make me think of'. I meant I was not sure...

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 04:00:00 PM »
I understood that you were not sure, i'm also not.

What i'm sure, is that it's not a Citrus hystrix, because we never buyed a kaffir lime fruit, and the leaves don't smell like Citrus hystrix leaves. They have a very faint smell, but I could not describe it.

But if it could be a hybrid with a pomelo and a kaffir lime, how would the leaves smell ? would they have hairs or not ? and would the new leaves have anthocyanin or not ?

Now i'm not sure anymore... ::)

I think that i'll have to wait some more years for the fruits, as it is only 4 years old.

mrtexas

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 06:39:43 PM »
I have a sugar belle seedling about 6 feet tall. I let the seedling grow out until buds were big enough and then grafted to swingle rootstock. Budwood not available even if in Florida, apparently patented. However, seedlings of patented varieties aren't patented as far as I know but are identical. Don't think calling it sugar belle would be OK however. I could say "tastes like sugar belle" I suppose. Put some bearing turkish sugar orange buds on the top while I'm waiting. Why graft? Same reasons as bearing budwood. Faster growth and better root stock. Sugar belle seedling as root stock might be OK but why chance it? In ground for two years and bigger than 3 year trees on flying dragon. Nice big thorns. We will see whose seedling bears first. I handed out several seedlings to who ever would take them. Mine is biggest so far? Sugar belle fruit is very tasty which is why I'm growing it out. So is sumo which I was growing out but stopped when bud wood became available. It is available but I still don't have any. This tree had lots of bark cracking in the 19F freeze, one of the downsides of swingle and carrizo root stocks.

sugar1 by philip sauber, on Flickr

sugar2 by philip sauber, on Flickr

sugar3 by philip sauber, on Flickr
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 09:32:54 AM by mrtexas »

SoCal2warm

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 01:37:33 AM »
No idea what it is, but judging by those winged petioles and long thorns, I'd say it's probably not going to turn out something sweet.

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2017, 03:57:35 PM »
No idea what it is, but judging by those winged petioles and long thorns, I'd say it's probably not going to turn out something sweet.

You're certainly right. But I'm too curious to see the fruits, if it turns to be something awful, I'll throw it away.

I have a sugar belle seedling about 6 feet tall. I let the seedling grow out until buds were big enough and then grafted to swingle rootstock. Budwood not available even if in Florida, apparently patented. However, seedlings of patented varieties aren't patented as far as I know but are identical. Don't think calling it sugar belle would be OK however. I could say "tastes like sugar belle" I suppose. Put some bearing turkish sugar orange buds on the top while I'm waiting. Why graft? Same reasons as bearing budwood. Faster growth and better root stock. Sugar belle seedling as root stock might be OK but why chance it? In ground for two years and bigger than 3 year trees on flying dragon. Nice big thorns. We will see whose seedling bears first. I handed out several seedlings to who ever would take them. Mine is biggest so far? Sugar belle fruit is very tasty which is why I'm growing it out. So is sumo which I was growing out but stopped when bud wood became available. It is available but I still don't have any. This tree had lots of bark cracking in the 19F freeze, one of the downsides of swingle and carrizo root stocks.


I'm not sure to understand everything you wrote, but your Sugar belle will surely bear first, because it's grafted and in the ground.
We don't have Sugar belle in Europe or never heard of it, but we also have tasty hybrids like Tacle and Mandared.
In Switzerland, with the climate we have, it is better to graft on hardy rootstock, but I never grafted my seedlings, as I'm not sure to be able to do it.

laidbackdood

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 12:42:58 PM »
My two cents worth....a citrus tree grown from seed will not produce a clone of the original tree........in fact you can get a right mongrel !
  It will at the very least create something interesting. :)......only grafting a scion onto the rootstock will you be guaranteed the  true fruit.....but i could be full of dung. ;D...feed it some potash two weeks before the start of spring and it should flower big time.
     I had a friend who was complaining his lime had never produced fruit....he did that.......came back 4 weeks later and his tree was covered in flowers.......no other food given.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 12:49:27 PM by laidbackdood »

Millet

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 01:39:32 PM »
Most all citrus seeds come true from seed.  All most all sweet oranges, true grapefruit, lemon, limes, pure mandarins (other than King and Clementine) most tangelos, hybrid tangerines and tangors (except for Temple) come true from seed.  Most pummelos do not come true from seed.

Susanne42

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 02:44:40 PM »
Are all citrus that come true from seed show more then one seedling when sprouting?

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 03:24:49 PM »
I thought that for citruses, only seeds that are polyembryonic come true from seed, and that you need to keep only the biggest seedling and throw the others away for having a clone of the mother tree. Is that not correct ?

BajaJohn

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 05:24:47 PM »
This site has some good information with hundreds of pictures you can filter by structures such as petioles  http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/gallery.php?show%5B%5D=Petiole&page=1. It looks like quite a few pomelos may be candidates.  Banpeiyu, Java Pink, Pink Sensation....
This is an interesting one for me because my neighbor gave me a seedling with similar leaves. He claimed it was from a red grapefruit. He also gave me 3 avocado plants that morphed into 2 passifloras and one I still haven't identified!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:29:04 PM by BajaJohn »

JJROSS54

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 06:41:14 PM »
You beat me to it BajaJohn
I was just looking on the same site and it definitely looks like a Grapefruit, look on page 2 at the Flame, same type of petiole and leaf shape.
http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/gallery.php?show%5b%5d=Petiole&page=2

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 03:28:46 PM »
Thanks for the help  :)
I have also seen this website, but for me, the leaves look more like a Ichang or a Combava.
But the seed came from a fruit from the supermarket, and they don't sell ichang or combava fruits where I live.

I will try to make better pictures of a leaf with a measuring tape this week.

Could you please put a picture of your seedling ?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 03:32:11 PM by Ynk88 »

BajaJohn

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2017, 12:10:22 PM »
Here are a couple of pics of the leaves on my seedling - which is now about 2 m tall.
They don't quite look the same as yours and as I noted in my other post, the ID is hearsay from someone who has been grossly wrong in the past.





Lauren08

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 08:43:53 AM »
My ruby red grapefruit looks like that. I havent been at this long so take what i say with a grain of salt, but it DOES look like my grapefruit.

Heinrich

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 03:13:17 AM »
The only mandarin-sized, store bought fruits, which gave me grapefruit-like seedling trees is Minneola. I grow two, nearly 4 years old plants. Minneola has the first year twig surface pubescent.  http://idtools.org/id/citrus/citrusid/factsheet.php?name=Minneola. However, the new growth on my plants is not pubescent. Therefore, I conclude that Minneola does not come true from seeds. Leaves can be very dissimilar. Last year’s leaves of one plant were much more elongated. This year, new leaves of both plants are about the same.

Minneola seedling plant. Thorns removed.



Susanne42

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 11:44:22 AM »
Are you sure this is a Minneola seedling? I ate pounds of them this summer and found only one really round seed. Plannted it and it looks like there are at least four seedlings emerging. Granted they are still very small, just the first two leaves but from all I have heard so far, this should be true to the tree it came from.
Will try to post picture later

Millet

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 03:13:08 PM »
Tangelos do come true from seed.

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2017, 05:38:31 PM »
Here are a couple of pics of the leaves on my seedling - which is now about 2 m tall.
They don't quite look the same as yours and as I noted in my other post, the ID is hearsay from someone who has been grossly wrong in the past.

Thanks for the pictures  :)
How old is your tree ? is the new growth hairy ?

As I never saw pictures of the new growth of a grapefruit tree, could you or someone else put a picture, as I would like to see the hairiness of new leaves, to compare with my seedling.

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2017, 05:43:06 PM »
Here are better pictures of one leaf, for the size.






Susanne42

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2017, 05:50:28 PM »
That does not look like grapefruit or pomelo. Looks like some sort of Citron???

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2017, 06:04:24 PM »
That does not look like grapefruit or pomelo. Looks like some sort of Citron???

Haha so then we'll see. I'll add new pictures when it will flower and fruit ^^

Susanne42

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2017, 06:10:48 PM »
Yes please. Always looking forward to see pictures and learn something :)

Sylvain

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 04:48:00 AM »
> That does not look like grapefruit or pomelo. Looks like some sort of Citron???
Not at all. The leaves of citrons are not articulated!

Heinrich

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2017, 05:43:02 AM »
Mistakes happen. The first plant always produced grapefruit-like leaves. The second Minneola always produced elongated leaves with narrow petioles. I was surprised to see the leaves of the second plant to change to more or less grapefruit-like leaves, this season. I have crushed some leaves. The smell of both plants reminds me on Minneola, rather than grapefruit. Most leaves of Minneola in citrus idtools.org are of the elongated type. However, there is also a leaf shown, with a wide petiole.

The second Minneola with different leaf shapes.



BajaJohn

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2017, 01:45:00 PM »
Thanks for the pictures  :)
How old is your tree ? is the new growth hairy ?

As I never saw pictures of the new growth of a grapefruit tree, could you or someone else put a picture, as I would like to see the hairiness of new leaves, to compare with my seedling.
It is probably 4-5 years old now. I didn't plant the seed so I can't be sure. I haven't noticed hairs on any leaves and also noted that the leaves on your seedling differed from my grapefruit (unfortunately, variability even in the same plant adds confusion). Your leaves are more elongate and the petioles on my grapefruit do not overlap the leaves. Heinrich's comments seem to keep minneola in the picture too.
> That does not look like grapefruit or pomelo. Looks like some sort of Citron???
Not at all. The leaves of citrons are not articulated!
That occurred to me also.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 01:48:05 PM by BajaJohn »

Heinrich

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 02:43:56 AM »
Are you sure this is a Minneola seedling?
It is good to be skeptical. Especially against oneself. I have checked all my citrus seedlings. There is nothing comparable, which could be Minneola. Now, I am confident that I didn´t mislabel both plants.

Marcin

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 06:10:36 AM »
Here are better pictures of one leaf, for the size.





Ynk88, your seedling has unique shaped leaves. I think it's not a pure pummelo, but some sort of pummelo hybrid. Some pummelo hybrids still have heart-shaped petioles.

This is one of my pummelo x Ponderosa lemon hybrid seedlings. The petioles aren't as big as these on your plant, but some of them overlap the leaf in a similar way.


And this one has elongated leaves, quite similar to yours, but petioles are smaller and rounded.


If yet another combination had happened, a seedling from this cross could have both overlapping petioles and elongated leaves. Then, I think it would be quite similar to yours.
I'm not saying your seedling is exactly a pummelo x Ponderosa, but who knows. ;)

@edit: changed hosting. Photobucket doesn't work properly.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 09:05:56 AM by Marcin »

Citradia

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2017, 07:45:43 PM »
Ichang lemon has large petiole. Ichang lemon is cross with pummelo and ichang papeda. Maybe it's similar to some of those varieties.

Ynk88

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Re: ID of a citrus tree grown from seed
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 03:33:43 PM »
It is probably 4-5 years old now. I didn't plant the seed so I can't be sure. I haven't noticed hairs on any leaves and also noted that the leaves on your seedling differed from my grapefruit (unfortunately, variability even in the same plant adds confusion). Your leaves are more elongate and the petioles on my grapefruit do not overlap the leaves. Heinrich's comments seem to keep minneola in the picture too.
> That does not look like grapefruit or pomelo. Looks like some sort of Citron???
Not at all. The leaves of citrons are not articulated!
That occurred to me also.


Thanks for the informations. Let us know when your tree will flower and fruit, it should come soon with your climate  :)

Mistakes happen. The first plant always produced grapefruit-like leaves. The second Minneola always produced elongated leaves with narrow petioles. I was surprised to see the leaves of the second plant to change to more or less grapefruit-like leaves, this season. I have crushed some leaves. The smell of both plants reminds me on Minneola, rather than grapefruit. Most leaves of Minneola in citrus idtools.org are of the elongated type. However, there is also a leaf shown, with a wide petiole.




It's strange to see that leaf shape is turning from elongated to  grapefruit like.
Where your seeds poly or monoembryonic ?


Ynk88, your seedling has unique shaped leaves. I think it's not a pure pummelo, but some sort of pummelo hybrid. Some pummelo hybrids still have heart-shaped petioles.

This is one of my pummelo x Ponderosa lemon hybrid seedlings. The petioles aren't as big as these on your plant, but some of them overlap the leaf in a similar way.

If yet another combination had happened, a seedling from this cross could have both overlapping petioles and elongated leaves. Then, I think it would be quite similar to yours.
I'm not saying your seedling is exactly a pummelo x Ponderosa, but who knows. ;)

I can't look at your pictures, when I click on them it opens a lot of pages and my internet provider blocks the pages.
But from what I see, they are a bit similar in shape.
If mine is a cross, it should be crossed with citruses you can find in citrus orchards, because the seed came from a fruit from the supermarket. But yes, who knows.

 

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