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Author Topic: Rootstocks ??  (Read 595 times)

Susanne42

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Rootstocks ??
« on: September 18, 2017, 06:17:07 PM »
I was wondering if there is a chart somewhere that list the influence from rootstock to the quality of the fruit?
For example flying dragon is dwarfing but what will it do to the fruit? Why choose Carizzo and not any other variety capable for being rootstock?
The reason I'm asking is some trees need a lot of growth before fruiting. For container not really a good thing. So, I was thinking, what will happen if I use a citrumelo for a lemon to get faster maturity, and then use a mature cutting and put it on tri foliate?
Will the fruit of this new tree have the same characterisiks as the one previously growing on citrumelo?
This are only examples and hoping I explain what I'm asking (sometimes english is not my best especially in a new area)

Millet

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 10:50:00 PM »
Much of what you want can be done with citrus trees growing in the ground.  However, it is greatly different growing in a container.  It is true that Flying Dragon is a dwarfing rootstock, but a container is just as dwarfing to a tree as a dwarfing root stock and even more, unless you transplant into a larger and larger and larger container.    Grafting on citrumelo and then putting the tree in a container will take away the rapid growth you desire from a rootstock.  My guess is that much of what you want to know about various rootstocks can be found on the Internet, BUT much of what your looking for will not apply to container culture. The best  information on rootstocks (both commercial and new varieties) can be found on the "Florida Citrus Rootstock Selection Guide", published by the University of Florida, but once again applies to in ground trees, not container trees.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 10:54:05 PM by Millet »

Susanne42

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 10:54:49 PM »
Thank you Millet. I understand influence about growth container or in ground and drarfing to have more trees per acre. But what about fruit quality, taste, sugar content? does that not count for container growth either?

Ilya11

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 03:49:47 AM »
Here it is ( for those who can read Spanish)
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Millet

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 12:15:17 PM »
Ilya11 your above post is the Spanish version of the University of Florida's "Florida Citrus Rootstock Selection Guide".  The difference between the two is that the Florida Citrus Rootstock Selection Guide, contains more rootstock varieties.   Susanne, fruit quality is always best on slower growing rootstocks. Invigorating rootstocks such as Rough Lemon, volkameriana lemon, and  Macrophylla, generally produce large fruit with low soluble solids and acid content. Less invigorating rootstocks such as many of the trifoliate orange selections and some of its hybrids (citranges & citrumelos) generally produce somewhat smaller fruit, but with higher SSC and TA.

Ilya11

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 03:05:07 PM »
Millet,
It is quite different from Florida rootstock guide,  e.g. it contains new very promising  Alcaide-Forner citrandarins not available in USA

http://www.flrootstockselectionguide.org/
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:07:03 PM by Ilya11 »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 05:03:17 PM »
I have a Meyer lemon on Flying Dragon rooted into the ground using a bottomless rootstock.  It bears pertty well but I don't like FD because it extends dormancy and induces chlorosis.

Susanne42

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 06:05:01 PM »
Ilya thank you for the list. Although can identify some words, can not really read and need to translate first.
Millet thank you for the explanation. So, that means all dwarfing root stocks will produce better tasting just smaller fruits (simplified)
I will study the Florida root stock selection guide :)

Mark what makes you think the flying dragon root stock induce chlorosis? I don't understand why it prolongs dormancy and does this really matter for container grown trees that are kept warm year round?

Millet

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 06:49:31 PM »
Susanne, never use the word "All" when talking about rootstocks.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 09:54:36 AM »
Mark what makes you think the flying dragon root stock induce chlorosis? I don't understand why it prolongs dormancy and does this really matter for container grown trees that are kept warm year round?

Based on experience and also parroted in expert's guide after thorough testing of rootstocks.  Can't find the link but FD is known for being the most prone to chlorosis of them all.   Google is your friend.

Here's a Meyer lemon branch on FD with the new foliage OK after spraying and drenching with Keyplex 350DP, the only micro supplement I've found that works:



Note that the older foliage is chlorotic?


brettay

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 01:19:03 PM »
Sour orange is one example of a non-dwarfing rootstock that produces very high quality fruits.

-Brett

Millet

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2017, 03:13:31 PM »
As Brettay wrote, sour orange is a really great rootstock, if you don't live in an area that is troubled with the tristeza virus disease.  Sour orange is still the number one root stock in Texas.  Personally, my favorite root stock is Flying Dragon.  Most all of my in ground trees are growing on Flying Dragon.

Mtlgirl

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2017, 09:03:27 PM »
Hi Suzanne,
Hope that it's help
http://citruspages.free.fr/trifoliates.html

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 09:52:19 AM »
As Brettay wrote, sour orange is a really great rootstock, if you don't live in an area that is troubled with the tristeza virus disease.  Sour orange is still the number one root stock in Texas.  Personally, my favorite root stock is Flying Dragon.  Most all of my in ground trees are growing on Flying Dragon.

Love sour orange.  I grew in the calcareous heavy black "Victoria clay soil series" in Corpus Christi and never had a problem with chlorosis or hardiness.  My citrus yields were huge with BIG delicious fruit.  I think the tristeza thing is over rated.  Lived there for 42 years and went to the citrus growing areas of the valley and never heard of any one having tristeza with sour orange.

Orlando tangelo fruit hanging perfectly after a rare snow. One of the best tasting "oranges", ever.



Susanne42

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 10:28:46 AM »
Mark that picture looks just awesome. Love the hot orange in the snow and your little poochies too ;)
Have to look for the Orlando tangelo. Is this commercially available?
I ordered three poncirus trivoliate orange and will try grafting. My trees are all growing in containers and kept in the house with artificial light. So some of the criteria are different then for in ground grown.
If I try to find sour orange, where is the best place to look?

Susanne42

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 10:29:41 AM »
Mtlgirl yes that link is very helpful, thank you

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2017, 09:46:21 AM »
Mark that picture looks just awesome. Love the hot orange in the snow and your little poochies too ;)
Have to look for the Orlando tangelo. Is this commercially available?
I ordered three poncirus trivoliate orange and will try grafting. My trees are all growing in containers and kept in the house with artificial light. So some of the criteria are different then for in ground grown.
If I try to find sour orange, where is the best place to look?

You can buy all kinds of citrus budwood from the Texas A&M repository and I assume from Ca. and Fl.  Aint cheap, but it's certified clean.  95% of citrus comes true to seed if you want to wait that long.  Orlando tangelo is a hybrid so that one's out.  Could always put it on its own feet.  Our new TX release of Arctic Frost and Orange Frost satsuma are on their own feet.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:47:57 AM by Mark in Texas »

mrtexas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 08:01:02 PM »
I have a Meyer lemon on Flying Dragon rooted into the ground using a bottomless rootstock.  It bears pertty well but I don't like FD because it extends dormancy and induces chlorosis.

I have 20 citrus all on flying dragon in 7 gallon containers. The only one chlorotic is meyer lemon.

CA Hockey

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2017, 01:42:40 AM »
Mark, what is your keyplex spraying regimen? I sprayed a few months back. I thought I followed the directions and diluted appropriately but a part of me still felt I was using too much. I sprayed anyways. Got a lot of damage to my plants. Lots of dark black spots, esp on fruits (citrus especially). Looked like small cigarette burns.

K



Mark what makes you think the flying dragon root stock induce chlorosis? I don't understand why it prolongs dormancy and does this really matter for container grown trees that are kept warm year round?

Based on experience and also parroted in expert's guide after thorough testing of rootstocks.  Can't find the link but FD is known for being the most prone to chlorosis of them all.   Google is your friend.

Here's a Meyer lemon branch on FD with the new foliage OK after spraying and drenching with Keyplex 350DP, the only micro supplement I've found that works:



Note that the older foliage is chlorotic?

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2017, 09:38:26 AM »
I have 20 citrus all on flying dragon in 7 gallon containers. The only one chlorotic is meyer lemon.

Come to think of it Phil the greenhouse Rio Red on FD didn't have the problem either.  I pulled it out for the Lemon Zest but that's neither here or there.  The greenhouse Rio Red fruit was a lot smaller than outside on Sour Orange where it was huge and delicious.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2017, 09:42:49 AM »
Mark, what is your keyplex spraying regimen? I sprayed a few months back. I thought I followed the directions and diluted appropriately but a part of me still felt I was using too much. I sprayed anyways. Got a lot of damage to my plants. Lots of dark black spots, esp on fruits (citrus especially). Looked like small cigarette burns.

Am bit lazy (and careful) so I use it as a soil drench.  I've found many products will burn young tender foliage.  Let them mature to a medium green rather than early on as a yellowish/green leaf.   I wouldn't go more than about a teaspoon per gallon and make sure you add a non-ionic surfactant to the mix, like 1/2 - 1 tsp/gal.

mrtexas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2017, 02:41:44 PM »
Mark, what is your keyplex spraying regimen? I sprayed a few months back. I thought I followed the directions and diluted appropriately but a part of me still felt I was using too much. I sprayed anyways. Got a lot of damage to my plants. Lots of dark black spots, esp on fruits (citrus especially). Looked like small cigarette burns.

Am bit lazy (and careful) so I use it as a soil drench.  I've found many products will burn young tender foliage.  Let them mature to a medium green rather than early on as a yellowish/green leaf.   I wouldn't go more than about a teaspoon per gallon and make sure you add a non-ionic surfactant to the mix, like 1/2 - 1 tsp/gal.

I always spray my minors using Scott's STEM. Also throw in some dormant oil and surfactant.

Millet

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2017, 02:51:37 PM »
I also foliar spray micronutrients using Peters STEM.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2017, 10:47:43 AM »
ya'll are giving away your age.  This old pHart used to use STEM too.  Great product.

luak

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Re: Rootstocks ??
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2017, 01:44:22 PM »
 Peters Stem Is it called Peter's M.O.S.T this is what i use? It comes in a 1 lb bag.

 

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