Thailand phytosanitary laws

[durianwriter]

Does anyone know what Thailand's laws are regarding the export of seeds, in particular durian seeds, out of the country? What about scions? I've heard that they are very protective of their durian varieties and that it is illegal to remove cuttings from Thailand, but I can't find any info online. I'm sure there are plenty of experienced fruit smugglers here who are familiar with Thailand's laws

[fruitlovers]

Does anyone know what Thailand's laws are regarding the export of seeds, in particular durian seeds, out of the country? What about scions? I've heard that they are very protective of their durian varieties and that it is illegal to remove cuttings from Thailand, but I can't find any info online. I'm sure there are plenty of experienced fruit smugglers here who are familiar with Thailand's laws

Strictly forbidden, so you will not be able to get a phyto for durian seeds, scions, or plants. There are 10 forbidden plants  for export in Thailand and durian is one of them.
The good news is that to send to USA you don't need a phyto for seeds. You can use small seed lot permit, but only for seeds. You can apply for it online from APHIS USDA.

[durianwriter]

So by "strictly forbidden" do you mean that mailing durian seeds from Thailand to other country's is illegal by Thailand's laws?

[fruitlovers]

So by "strictly forbidden" do you mean that mailing durian seeds from Thailand to other country's is illegal by Thailand's laws?

Yes forbidden = illegal. They will not issue a phyto for any propagative materials for durian.

[Kay]

If you want seeds you have import the fresh fruit   That's what we do for Thai and Vietnamese durians.  But then you get seeds, not clones.

Fruitlovers, do you know the other species that are also forbidden to export?

[fruitlovers]

If you want seeds you have import the fresh fruit   That's what we do for Thai and Vietnamese durians.  But then you get seeds, not clones.

Fruitlovers, do you know the other species that are also forbidden to export?

Salak, tamarind, lychee, longan, langsat, durian, forget the other 4 right now.

[Kay]

we used to grow lots of seeds of durian and tamarind from Thailand. So no issues regarding table fruit, just not propagation material?

[fruitlovers]

we used to grow lots of seeds of durian and tamarind from Thailand. So no issues regarding table fruit, just not propagation material?

Yes, fruits can be exported but not seeds or other propagative materials.

[durianwriter]

Any idea what the penalty is if you get caught?

[fruitlovers]

Any idea what the penalty is if you get caught?

That's not the issue. You won't get caught because Thai postal service doesn't open or inspect packages. The real problem is if your country requires a phyto sanitary certificate you won't be able to get one from Thailand  agriculture department for the 10 prohibited fruits. In USA you need a phyto for any plant parts, so that means you can't import any of those 10 types of fruit trees, cuttings, air layers or scions. You can bypass it for seeds by using small seed lot permit.

[durianwriter]

Thanks for explaining, Oscar

[fruitlovers]

Any idea what the penalty is if you get caught?

I just realized you might be asking about receiving seeds from durian writer in Thailand into USA without a permit? Usually customs will not fine you for materials you are receiving without a permit. They just throw your seeds (or plants) into the incinerator. If you send plants out without a permit then you can be fined.

[Kay]

does anyone know what kind of naming this sort of thing would go by?   i want to search for similar laws in other countries, but cant seem to get the terminology right.

[durianwriter]

I search "country phytosanitary laws" and find some stuff, but anyone have links to specific countries? Twould be very helpful.

[bangkok]

As for many cases they do have laws in Thailand but the problem is they don't execute them. Or they don't have anybody to do that properly.

If you get caught by the customs then anything or nothing can happen, depends of your passport, skincolor, dressstyle, creditcards, connections etc etc.

I live in Thailand (partially) for more then 10 years and never heard of those 10 species that are mentioned here. I didn't know that we even cannot export seeds from them.

Maybe they don't open outgoing mail and packages, they sure do open incoming international ones. Never send cash money or valuable things into Thailand because they will never arrive.

If you just want to bring some plants in your luggage and show them to the customs i have no idea what will happen. One day i brought a huge bunch of flowers into Thailand airport  and i carried the bunch in my hand openly. The customs had to laugh, let me come over to them  and asked for 1 flower for on their desk. Then they let me go.

[fruitlovers]

I search "country phytosanitary laws" and find some stuff, but anyone have links to specific countries? Twould be very helpful.

Even if it's online it would all be in Thai language, so what good would it do you?
Bangkok, you don't know about 10 prohibited species because you never tried to get a phyto certificate. It's not possible to get a phyto for those 10 species. Ofcourse you can mail anything out of the country, but what happens when it arrives in USA without a phyto? => Straight to the incinerator.

[bangkok]

I search "country phytosanitary laws" and find some stuff, but anyone have links to specific countries? Twould be very helpful.

Even if it's online it would all be in Thai language, so what good would it do you?
Bangkok, you don't know about 10 prohibited species because you never tried to get a phyto certificate. It's not possible to get a phyto for those 10 species. Ofcourse you can mail anything out of the country, but what happens when it arrives in USA without a phyto? => Straight to the incinerator.

Now on tv i see a program about the Australian customs, they use beagles to sniff all the luggage for plants or food. Anyway i wonder what will happen if i buy me a thai duriantree and bring in my suitcase to Holland. I declare it in Holland and tell it is for my hobby. Durian is not on the prohibited list as far as i know so the Dutch customs might let me have it i guess. We can import plants for hobby use without phyto reports is what i read on their website.

Well i sure don't want to have problems with authorities so for myself i will find other ways to get the plants i really want to have. I can just tell some Thai what i m looking for and how much i m willing to pay and it will come to me.

When i travelled in/out of Thailand over land the customs only care for the visa and duty's. They never cared for my luggage. I m sure you can buy all those 10 fruit-tree's in the neighbourcountry's if you really want.

[Mike T]

http://www.plant-group.com/fruittrees/fruittrees_collector.htm
There are 11 species restricted from being exported in Thailand.

[bangkok]

So that's the list, i m sure the Thai people even don't know this themselves. So you cannot bring the fruit or seed of all those named species and if you do max. 3 years prison or max. 13 $ fine.

On tv tonite i saw a thai lady getting caught at the customs in Sydney with loads of fruits and seeds. She must be lucky that the Thai customs did not check her luggage. She even refused to pay the fine and made a big scene.

So all these fruits are protected by Thai government. Mango variety's that are not in this list are free to export then i guess.
Then i hope the customofficers have a good eye to see which mango some traveller is bringing.

Funny to see how the Thai protect their own copyrighted things while they don't respect foreign copyrights themselves.

[Mike T]

I would take the $13 fine. They don't check this on exit or in mail parcel going overseas so it is not a strictly enforced law. It seems to apply mostly to plant exporters and agricultural institutions.Thai farmers and plant breeders express concern that Taiwan,Malaysia and philipines in particular are cashing in on Thai durian, longkong, salak, jackfruit and wax apples.

[bangkok]

Oh now i understand that rule Mike.

Well i brought many big ndm mango's out of Thailand without knowing this rule. They should have a big warningsign like the customs in Sydney have, with a fine of 100.000 au$ on it, then you will think twice.

The 13$ fine is not the problem but maybe you get a remark on your name in the registers. That might give big problems in the future so better not have that.

[durianwriter]

That's an excellent link Mike T. Thank you very much.

[durianwriter]

Hey guys -- I've been sending a lot of seeds out of Malaysia recently and realized I don't actually know what the laws  are here.

What do you guys know about sending seeds out of Malaysia? Okay or not?

I just want to educate myself about the actual risks of what I'm doing - can I get in trouble? Google searching hasn't turned up anything useful regarding the seeds.

Much thanks!

[TropicalFruitHunters]

hard to say on that...but you could pick me up a couple nice, grafted Seebabat pulasans and drop them off at the folks for me.   

[EvilFruit]

A few bucks can solve any problem in Asia.

Bribe