Author Topic: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo  (Read 4942 times)

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« on: July 07, 2019, 08:22:43 AM »
This seed came from Ilya, from an Ichangquat.
But I just noticed something, there was a tiny bifurcation in one of the leaves (something I immediately recognized from my mostly monofoliate citrangequat seedling), and when I looked closer I realized there was also a small bifoliate leaf, with two leaves coming out of the petiole. Obviously this isn't characteristic of Ichangquat, so if it came from Ichangquat, it had to have been pollinated by something else. I know Ilya has a big 5* Citrumelo tree in the vicinity.




My Ichangquat seedlings have been quite variable in leaf morphology, so I know the seeds from Ichangquat must be zygotic, at least about half of them. This is the first one that's shown any indication of likely trifoliate leafed parentage though.

Maybe Ilya can shed more light on this.

Ilya11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 08:45:13 AM »
Before a year 2000 Bernhardt Voss got the seeds of Ichanquat 6-7-2 hybrid from Florida Research station.
The strongest zygotic seedling was multiplied by him by grafting on poncirus roots.
I got one of such immature plants in 2003, it is now a huge tree , never protected , never damaged ( the lowest temperatures of -16C).
The seeds are  100% monoembryonic . Usually there is  1 seed per 10  fruits. One seed in 4 has green cotyledons typical for its  kumquat ancestor.
Some seedlings have a tendency for bifoliate trait, probably due to a pollination by 5star citrumelo growing nearby.
I have two such seedlings, but they have not flowered up to now.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

bklyn citrus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • Usa, new york, brooklyn, 7B
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 05:46:21 PM »
beautiful photos interesting reading

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 04:25:35 PM »
I just planted it outside into the ground.

I know it's probably far too early, but the temperatures so far in late January have been surprisingly mild and relatively warm.

Jan 26

Florian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • Solothurn, Switzerland.
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2020, 07:28:44 AM »
Seems to be only monofoliate now, right?

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 07:04:31 PM »
Update February 16 (20 days later) the plant looks like it's still doing surprisingly well, even after having been planted out so early.
I was a little surprised.

This was going from inside under optimal growing conditions, with warmth and artificial LED light, to outside in practically the middle of winter. Other hardy citrus varieties that I have suddenly moved from growing inside to outside early in the year have not done that well. (The leaves turn yellow or patchy white, eventually fall off, there has been stem die-back sometimes, even when outside temperatures have remained above freezing)
To me, this seems to indicate remarkable resiliency. All the newest little leaf growth still appears green and healthy.

(However, this has been a good year, and almost all the other hardy citrus, even marginal varieties, appear to be doing very good left outside, having gone through the winter)

This looks like a plant that can handle sudden temperature change shock well.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2020, 11:58:10 PM »
The plant ended up defoliating, and there was side branch die-back. The main trunk stem is still deep green and healthy looking though. It has just started to put out some new leaflet growth from two of the less damaged little branches.


If this behaves like Yuzu seedlings I have planted in the past, this may be able to recover.
I probably shouldn't have transferred it outside in January, but I think it would have struggled with the transition outside no matter what time of the year I moved it, it seems from my prior experience doing this.

That it is sending out new leaf growth is a very good sign.

My other Ichangquat seedling still has all its leaves from last year, they are green and alive but kind of pale and yellowish, not the healthiest color, and the plant has put on absolutely no new leaf growth so far. It is alive so I am waiting for signs of leaf growth. So far it appears less resilient than Yuzu seedlings.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2020, 11:42:33 AM »
It's growing out leaves well now, and they are a healthy dark green color

Aug 11

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2020, 01:13:33 AM »
An update: The seedling appears to be doing well, has put on more growth. (September 4, 2020 now)

The fact that it was able to recover so well after being transferred outside into the ground in late January is I think a very good indicator.

When I had previously transferred out an Arctic Frost from inside to outside in early March during a previous year, it ended up suffering severe die-back and almost the entire top was killed back, and then it took a very long time to start recovering a grow out a new branch. (Though the plant ultimately was not able to survive through the following winter, which was unusually cold that year)
So I think I definitely can say this is more resilient than Arctic Frost.


Seems to be only monofoliate now, right?
Yes indeed. I only see regular monofoliate leaves on it now.


Meanwhile, another Ichangquat seedling (this one a normal one) which is in the ground still has not grown out a single leaf, although it still has its leaves from last year, which do not look healthy and are more pale and yellowish but still have some hue of green and appear to be alive (though perhaps not functional). The skinny trunk of the plant looks to be a healthier green color and is definitely still alive. Although I see little marks of grey on the green stems that indicate frost damage from the winter (looks to be fairly mild).

Of course it could be that this particular seedling lacks the cold tolerance of the parent it came from. It is only one seedling so it is difficult to compare.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 01:16:39 AM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 03:54:52 PM »
Here's an update on the plant.


November 2, 2020

I used paper bags in the background to help provide some contrast so the leaves are easier to see.
You can see both the leaf clusters on both of the main branches in these two pictures.

The leaves look pretty standard. I would say not that much different from Yuzu. Although there is one single leaf that displays a larger winged petiole, presumably more of an Ichang papeda influence, but still not really anywhere near as symmetrically large as the average leaf on an Ichang papeda. (I mean this single leaf is like halfway between a Yuzu and Ichang papeda). Many of the leaf petioles also appear to be a little bit deformed, but it's hard to say whether that's an inherent phenotypical trait at this point.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2020, 05:48:36 PM »
Well, good news. It's been getting colder for some time, and the leaves on the presumed Ichangquat hybrid still look a deep dark healthy green, much more of a healthy green color than any of my other citrus varieties, including Yuzu. The leaves still look like they could jump back to life if things started warming up.
December 1
I take this as a good sign that this seedling probably has a high level of hardiness.
It looks much better than the other Ichangquat seedling and two Ichang papeda plants, whose leaves look very pale yellowish with only the tiniest hint of green.
(And in addition to that, the presumed Ichangquat hybrid is planted in a colder area of the yard that gets pretty shady in winter, in a spot where two other things haven't done so well in the past)

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2021, 03:21:37 PM »
good news, it's still looking very green and healthy


January 3, 2021

The leaf color looks more of a healthy green hue than even the Yuzu and Dunstan citrumelo (which are the two other best performers for me here). If retaining leaf color during prolonged periods of cold is any indication of level of cold hardiness, this may prove to be very hardy.
(this is growing in Olympia, WA, zone 8a)

The hue of the leaf color is just looking surprisingly green and healthy, I can't get over that fact.

Most of the leaves only have a very small winged petiole, but there is one leaf that has a very large leaf petiole, more reminiscent of Ichang papeda, significantly larger than any that would ever be seen on a Yuzu.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 03:30:19 PM by SoCal2warm »

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2021, 12:48:32 PM »
update March 12, 2021


Surprisingly the leaves on the seedling are still looking a dark green and fairly healthy color.

It was buried under 15 inches of snow for  4 or 5 days which fell in the middle of February, although the temperature only went down to about 22 or 24 °F.

This was not covered and is in a colder shadier spot in the yard, which at this season of year only gets morning sun. It's further out in the yard away from the house.

The fact that the leaves are still this dark shade of green and have not turned yellowish from the cold is I think a very promising sign. The leaves look significantly better than on all my other hardy citrus plants.

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2021, 10:23:46 PM »
picture taken April 1, 2021



put a bag in the background for contrast, so you can better see the leaves

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4798
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 10:34:05 PM »
Congradulations
























































Congratulations









SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2021, 08:49:13 PM »
Some close up pictures of the seedling outside in the ground.



I couldn't capture a close-up of both branch sides in a single picture, so had to take two pictures of each branch side of the seedling.


It seems to have put out some more leaf growth.

pictures taken June 7, 2021



SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2021, 06:56:00 PM »
Here is the latest picture of the seedling, August 10, 2021



It's putting on more growth and getting bigger. 18 inches tall now but narrow and lengthy.

Millet

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4798
    • Colorado
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2021, 11:06:31 PM »
All in all how old is the tree.

vnomonee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
    • Zone 7a northeastern NJ
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2021, 01:55:33 PM »
It seems less hardy than regular citrumelo despite the ichangquat genes. Is it in full sun and do you fertilize?

This is my regular citrumelo in winter, spring, and now August 2021 in zone 7a

2 year old seedling:















Here is the latest picture of the seedling, August 10, 2021
It's putting on more growth and getting bigger. 18 inches tall now but narrow and lengthy.




a_Vivaldi

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • Greenville, NC, Z8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2024, 01:01:42 PM »
Bumping this older thread

Do any of our US members grow ichangquat?

SoCal2warm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1554
    • zone 10 and zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2024, 06:06:09 PM »
The Ichangquat did not end up surviving and is now dead. It seems to have suffered a gradual decline, finally being unable to recover after one winter, even though it had gone through colder winters before.
(I will say that it was in a colder spot in the yard, away from the house, that is shaded most of the day during the winter season. An Arctic Frost - own root - was previously unable to survive there, so maybe it is just not the best spot)

There is still another ichangquat seedling (not a trifoliate hybrid) that has a full inch of alive green at its base, but it has not been able to put out any leaf growth over the last 2 years. Perhaps this year might be different. The green color does look like a healthy alive green though. The top of the seedling was killed back during a colder winter.
(It's also away from the house but in a sunnier spot)

a_Vivaldi

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 82
    • Greenville, NC, Z8a
    • View Profile
Re: I think I have a hybrid of Ichangquat and 5* Citrumelo
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2024, 06:12:44 PM »
Dang. I really hope it starts pulling through for you, would be a real pity if it died seeing as how apparently rare it is in the states.