Author Topic: Is Abiu dioecious?  (Read 8827 times)

Sam

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Is Abiu dioecious?
« on: August 25, 2014, 12:57:55 PM »
My Abiu tree flowered last year for the first time but I got no fruits. It is flowering again now and I am curious as to whether Abiu is dioecious, or, do I need another flowering tree nearby in order for fruit set?

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 02:47:45 PM »
no just need one tree..and unfortunately seems like most seedlings don't produce fruits for  3-5 yrs after the first blooming,  I guess it takes practice to start setting fruits...

i have one thats been flowering for years now no set. (lots of trees do this, not just pouterieas)

some of these abius are much more precocious, setting more fruits than others...these are the varieties we need to be collecting....most of the abius available in the USA are from inferior selections, compared to the best that Brazil has to offer.
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Patrick

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 02:51:11 PM »
My tree has flowered heavily three times, this time it set and held one fruit that I picked today.  The tree is a four year old seedling from Noel Ramos.

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 02:54:21 PM »
My tree has flowered heavily three times, this time it set and held one fruit that I picked today.  The tree is a four year old seedling from Noel Ramos.

Patrick,
i think Noel's tree Marissa, comes from Z2 or Z4?  I've tasted this one, and it's top notch...a rare find in FL.

glad to hear u got fruit set...

I'm patiently waiting on my grafted Harvest Moon and seedling Caribou (both from PIN, both have been flowering for a while now, about 2yrs)
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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 03:35:50 PM »
My harvest moon, in the ground for about a year, set about 10 fruit but they aborted when they got to Hershey kiss size in May.  Tree was about 4 ft tall. Has not flowered again yet.
Brandon

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 03:37:16 PM »
Abiu often have poor seasons with little set in their first couple of slowering seasons and always set better with a neighboring tree.Young trees are not usually heavy producers and some trees never get very productive.Then again others like Z4 can be festooned with fruit a few times in a year.

I have sent a few abiu and matisia seeds 'back' to brazil as it seems very good ones are not common in brazil.I think the best dozen or so selections from various south american countries and the founder effect meant they improved with just one or 2 generations,

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 03:49:25 PM »
Mike,

i hadn't really considered the other countries where abiu might be from...good point.

I wonder how many countries have this species as a native?

Brazil, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador?
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Mike T

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 04:01:35 PM »
Saff the original domestication area where the big spherical ones are and where they went back to the wild is maybe near the brazil/peru/ecuador border.

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2014, 04:57:45 PM »
Saff the original domestication area where the big spherical ones are and where they went back to the wild is maybe near the brazil/peru/ecuador border.

I know the ticuna indians had some selections...from readin lornzi's book
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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2014, 06:36:15 PM »
Saff the original domestication area where the big spherical ones are and where they went back to the wild is maybe near the brazil/peru/ecuador border.

I think the area of greatest diversity and where abiu is most commercialized is Peru. Don't think abiu is well known in Ecuador, but will let you know later as i'm headed there right now. In transit right now in Panama. Didn't see abius for sale at the time i was in Brazil.
This topic of abius not setting flowers first few years has been discussed in many previous threads. It's my hunch that fruiting in juvenille stage would be speeded up by grafting some scion wood from a mature tree. This i'm guessing would spread correct fruiting hormone throughout the tree. But can't say for sure as i haven't tried it. I think it would be worth a try though.
Oscar

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2014, 09:13:43 PM »
We believe that abiu sets better with a companion tree.
Peter

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 06:33:05 PM »
We believe that abiu sets better with a companion tree.
Peter

Hi Peter , a companion tree how close to each other do they have to be , I have several varieties ( 5 ) within 10 meters from each other .
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Mike T

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 07:20:19 PM »
From 3 to 40m is good as pollinators go freely between.I take it luc there is no interest in the Z4 abui then.

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 09:20:38 PM »
I think Mike is right.  For someone who doesn't have much space 3m would be good.  Otherwise, within the vicinity of about 40m or so.
Peter

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 10:46:24 PM »
We believe that abiu sets better with a companion tree.
Peter
I've had juvenile trees planted close together and they still didn't set well first few years they flowered. Probably a matter of whether partner tree is supplying right type of pollen, rather than just having any abiu tree close by.
Oscar

luc

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 06:09:51 PM »
From 3 to 40m is good as pollinators go freely between.I take it luc there is no interest in the Z4 abui then.

MIIIIIIIIIIIIKE , you are JOKING ,  right ????? I NEED the Z4....
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 06:12:00 PM by luc »
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Berto

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2014, 03:18:51 PM »
Abiu is a very nice tasty sweet  fruit, and it is easier to grow  than it has been reported!

Here is my detailed experiment


1) I  grew 3 abiu trees in pots until they reached approximately 6 to 7 feet tall.  They spent the Winters in a nice and protected area.

2) Last year when they were approximately 7 feet tall two trees were planted next to each other.  I gave the third tree to a fellow collector, a my friend of mine.

3) The trees were planted in a rich organic mound and received city water every single day through an irrigation system.

4) Both trees flowered and fruited this year. Each tree produced approximately 30 fruits each.  Tree # 1 usually has one 1 seed, and tree # 2 has 1 to 3 seeds.

5) Tree # 1 produced  very sweet fruits.  The fruits weighs between 200 grams to 380 grams.  My wife did not like the fruit.  She said it is too sweet for her taste. Both types have very thin skin and almost no latex.

6) Tree # 2 produced fruits that were sweet, but not as sweet as tree # 1.  My fruit collector friend prefers this one.  He said that the flavor is more like abiu flavor. The fruits weigh between  280  grams and 430 grams.

7) My friend's tree flowered  profusely, but it did not set one single fruit.  Now, all three trees are approximately twelve (12) feet tall.

8)  My conclusions are that abiu can take  some cold weather if they are big enough, at least 6 to 7 feet tall,  before planted in the ground.

9) Two (2) trees next to each other help with cross pollination.

10) They should be planted in high organic matter and get plenty of water regularly.

11) I believe that my two trees are descent of Z2 abius.

12) I have a few packs of seeds, each pack with four (4) seeds each for sale.  Interested parties please send me an email to bertonsilva at Hotmail dot com

   Make sure to write  the email using the @ and the . symbols otherwise it will never reach southwest Florida....






















« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 03:47:20 PM by Berto »

Mike T

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2014, 04:15:47 PM »
Luc sorry I missed that you are still in the market for seeds of big abius.Next ones will come your way.Berto those abius in the picture  are not from the Z series as they are thin skinned,nippled and ripen to a pale yellow.I bet the trees also have broad mango leaves rather than the thin leaves of Z2 or Z4.They will also have soft flesh.Nipples and soft flesh make them less commercially attractive due to transport challenges.My E4 is more in that style.
Some trees produce prolifically in isolation and others hardly at all.The degree of self fertility seems to vary from tree to tree.Pure Z2 can produce fruit to around 1kg but 400g is respectable.I have seen 'brumby' trees that produce only small fruit around 150g.

rac78

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2014, 06:39:22 PM »
My two Z4's are cranckin. One seems to be a lot more tolerant to sunburn than the other. They have been side by side the whole time in mid to full sun. One burnt not to bad but the other seemed to love it. Cheers Mike for your genourousity and wisdom
Russell

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2014, 07:25:12 PM »
Probably a stupid question, but if I were to have, say, 2 z4 abiu trees near each other, how does the tree know to set more fruit from the neighbors pollen (same DNA, right?) than from its own pollen??

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2014, 09:10:56 PM »
Mike,
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate your feedback.
As you mentioned, the leaves are broad like a broad mango leaf.  Maybe, I have a couple decent E series abius.
I am impressed by the amount of fruits these trees produced in their first season. Therefore, I am extremely satisfied with them.  They are sweet,  tasty, and  perfect for someone that want to grow them for their own enjoyment.
I also have a couple "Marisa" seedlings, and I am working and making progress with some Z4 seeds.  I am not sure if I need to bring a few "abiu do solimoes" from Brasil.  Embrapa has done a great job. My understanding is that "abiu do solimoes" is a giant and most fruits are over 1 kilo.  Abiu do Solimoes and Z4 will be the next contenders for the abiu crown!

 

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2014, 09:42:01 PM »
Berto they are not exactly the same as E4 but in that direction.I know I made a fuss of 1kg + fruit but they were selected for low latex,no bruising and taste.The low bruising and browning of flesh quality is very important for commercial abiu getting banged around with transport. The better varieties tend to be very spherical also rather than elongated.
I have seen pictures of the larger brazilian ones and they seem to be more prone to bruising than I expected.

Berto

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2014, 09:52:10 PM »
Mike,
Are you referring to Abiu do Solimoes?
I am going to talk with a friend of mine in Brasil, and ask him about skin thickness and bruising. My friend has a small commercial plantation of "Abiu do Solimoes".

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2014, 10:09:24 PM »
Berto I have seen a number of pix of brazilian giants of around 1 kg where they have been unlabelled as to the variety.I was offerred seeds of some but it looked like there was lots of latex as well.
The ones that get to around 1kg here with low latex and bruising but have a good taste include a few others not mentioned here.Inca gold,Gray,the new Brunella,T25,T31 (territory as in northern territory) and a few un-named ones are also good.Firmness of flesh (better commercially),flesh color (white,beige,translucent),skin thickness and presence of vanilla taste as well as caramel are qualities that vary quite a bit.Some poor one have thick latexy skin but Z4 has reasonably thick skin with little latex.

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Re: Is Abiu dioecious?
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2014, 05:18:00 PM »
Hi Berto!
I'm also on SW Florida. Cape Coral area.....And would like to buy some of those seeds
Thanks!

 

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