Author Topic: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand  (Read 8843 times)

bangkok

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Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« on: November 14, 2014, 08:11:24 AM »
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/armysecurityagencyvets/conversations/topics/182170

I didn't read much about this lychee so here is more info. I ate them a few times (and picked them at the farm) and they are great!

 Khom lychee from the city Amphawa in Samut Songkhram Thailand.



« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 08:21:41 AM by bangkok »

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 12:13:12 PM »
Surely looks good - how was the seed-pulp ratio?
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

redhaus

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 02:41:12 PM »
Lol bangkok you've gotten seriously bit by the Lychee bug ;) I gotta try one ASAP!

bangkok

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 08:31:59 PM »
Yes i really miss lychee's, haven't eaten them for years. They are availlable  in April but then i am abroad usually.

The amphawan lychee is smaller then ones from North Thailand but i don't know of any other lychee that can fruit in the ultra tropics.

Are there any other ultra tropical lychee's on the world?

« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 08:36:01 PM by bangkok »

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 05:03:38 AM »
Yes i really miss lychee's, haven't eaten them for years. They are availlable  in April but then i am abroad usually.

The amphawan lychee is smaller then ones from North Thailand but i don't know of any other lychee that can fruit in the ultra tropics.

Are there any other ultra tropical lychee's on the world?

I got seedlings from fruits collected from Mauritius (not to be confused with the 'cv mauritius'), and the weather there is very much the same as mine here in Uganda (regarding max - average - low temperatures). I wouldn't call our climate ultra tropical though on equator we are 1200+ m above sea level, but ultra tropical species can easily be grown here in Uganda.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

fruitlovers

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 05:37:09 AM »

I got seedlings from fruits collected from Mauritius (not to be confused with the 'cv mauritius'), and the weather there is very much the same as mine here in Uganda (regarding max - average - low temperatures). I wouldn't call our climate ultra tropical though on equator we are 1200+ m above sea level, but ultra tropical species can easily be grown here in Uganda.

Mauritius is at 20 degrees south. Seems that they would have a lot more temperature variation between seasons (summer and winter) than you at 0 degrees. It's not just temperatures but temperature fluxes that affect lychee fruit set.
Oscar

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 09:58:09 AM »
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

vipinrl

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2014, 10:41:04 AM »
Try grafting Lynchee on Rambutan rootstock.
This may do better in the tropics/ ultra-tropics.

Mike T

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 03:36:32 PM »
There have been past threads discussing the lychees of Mauritius and those of the highlands near Bangkok.Neither areas are equatorial.Mauritius lychee is a line of Tai so and like Kwai Mai pink has the highest minimum Temps to trigger flowering of the classic sub tropical commercial types with 17 latitude coastal areas often quoted as the limit.20 years ago or more Australia supplied Mauritius with yook how pow and FZS which also have high minimum triggers.The climate of Mauritius lychees areas can be Googled in their lychee industry research papers.Winter lows and seasonal variations are different from equatorial places at altitude.
The ones near Bangkok at maybe 12 latitude and some elevation are poorer quality and you can read about these in the Australian fruit council archives.None of these are ultra tropical or more correctly equatorial and just modestly in the tropical zone.There are truly tropical lychees in Indonesia grown at altitude still and not much has been written about them but forum members have posted pix.

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 04:11:32 PM »
Altitude is what matters here in Uganda - lychee is grown in nearby Tanzania in the highlands near Arusha, but here they stress the trees to set flowers.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

fruitlovers

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 04:21:08 PM »
Try grafting Lynchee on Rambutan rootstock.
This may do better in the tropics/ ultra-tropics.

Have you tried this? I don't think it will work. Lychee is not only different species than rambutan it is also in different genus.
Oscar

Mike T

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 05:04:32 PM »
Grafting lychees is hard enough but on to rambutan seems implausible.

fruitlovers

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2014, 05:28:59 PM »
Altitude is what matters here in Uganda - lychee is grown in nearby Tanzania in the highlands near Arusha, but here they stress the trees to set flowers.

Yes, but your altitude remains the same during winter and summer. I looked at your weather charts. Mauritius has more cool temperature variation during winter than at your location. Not surprising as they are at 20 degrees and you are at 0 degrees. That temperature variation may not seem like much to humans, but plants, especially tempremental ones like lychee, can tell the difference. I don't think Mauritius varieties will fruit as well at your place as they do in Mauritius.
Oscar

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2014, 05:48:37 PM »
Though the variations are small, they will of course make a difference - the ecotype is adapted to Mauritius and it is very likely the fruit quality and quantities are different. But that is usually the law of nature when breaking new ground with an introduction. If either Mike or you have a better suggestion where to get an ecotype from; I will be happy to include that as well.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2014, 05:58:54 PM »
Mike - I saw you mentioned Indonesia.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

fruitlovers

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 06:36:29 PM »
Though the variations are small, they will of course make a difference - the ecotype is adapted to Mauritius and it is very likely the fruit quality and quantities are different. But that is usually the law of nature when breaking new ground with an introduction. If either Mike or you have a better suggestion where to get an ecotype from; I will be happy to include that as well.

I think the Khor variety mentioned in this thread, and a few other tropical lychee varieties from Thailand, are a lot more likely to fruit at your location Soren than the Mauritius varieties. Problems is that they are hard to get.
Oscar

bangkok

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 08:08:30 PM »
Mike - I saw you mentioned Indonesia.

But are they grown on the mountains in Indonesia?

Maybe i shouldn't call them ultra-tropical lychee's (or lynchee as they call them here) but i would like to know which other lychee i can grow here in Bangkok. Big ones would be great but any lychee is welcome as long as i can get them to fruit.

On the pic's they don't look very big, i remember they were bigger when we visited the area where they grow. That was not in the mountains.

The Amphawa lychee's are not hard to get but mostly they don't reach Bangkok in big quantity's.. I guess the locals like them as well ;D. They can be bought around Thai New year (Songkran) which is around mid April. That's the most hot time of the year.

I have never heard of grafting it on rambutan, my neighbour is home today and he is a proffessor in botany. I will ask him which lychee can grow here. He told me about when the Chinese arrived (in the past) and they also could grow lychee's in Bangkok.







vipinrl

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2014, 08:25:41 PM »
Try grafting Lynchee on Rambutan rootstock.
This may do better in the tropics/ ultra-tropics.

Have you tried this? I don't think it will work. Lychee is not only different species than rambutan it is also in different genus.

Both the species are from the soap berry family.
And I have read that  rambutan, lychee, longan, korlan, soap nut, spanish lime are graft compatible.
But, I am not sure about fact.
BTB, I am going to try chip budding lychee on to rambutan rootstock.

Mike T

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2014, 08:50:28 PM »
Intergeneric grafting may be possible in some groups and intrageneric is more frequent but still within species or between very close species is more routine.Lychees are temperamental with grafting and I'd like to see where successful grafting with rambutans has been achieved before.

fruitlovers

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2014, 12:14:11 AM »
Try grafting Lynchee on Rambutan rootstock.
This may do better in the tropics/ ultra-tropics.

Have you tried this? I don't think it will work. Lychee is not only different species than rambutan it is also in different genus.

Both the species are from the soap berry family.
And I have read that  rambutan, lychee, longan, korlan, soap nut, spanish lime are graft compatible.
But, I am not sure about fact.
BTB, I am going to try chip budding lychee on to rambutan rootstock.

Korlan and rambutan may be graft compatible, but they are both in same genus: Nephelium. I've heard also that lychee and longan are graft compatible and they can also be hybridized. But I think you are wrong about rambutan and lychee being graft compatible.
Oscar

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2014, 12:20:04 PM »
Though the variations are small, they will of course make a difference - the ecotype is adapted to Mauritius and it is very likely the fruit quality and quantities are different. But that is usually the law of nature when breaking new ground with an introduction. If either Mike or you have a better suggestion where to get an ecotype from; I will be happy to include that as well.

I think the Khor variety mentioned in this thread, and a few other tropical lychee varieties from Thailand, are a lot more likely to fruit at your location Soren than the Mauritius varieties. Problems is that they are hard to get.

Thailand might be closer to equator, but the ocean provide islands like Mauritius a fairly stable climate even if not on equator. Will look into other seed sources as well.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

mwambao

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2014, 02:54:45 PM »

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2014, 03:55:52 PM »
http://blog.worldagroforestry.org/index.php/2013/04/24/litchi-a-new-yet-old-fruit-tree-for-kenya/

Hope the article will shed some light

mourad

Thanks for sharing; interesting they are using Mauritius stock - the article doesn't mention which areas they will try out the plants.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda

Mike T

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2014, 04:25:56 PM »
Equatorial places at maybe 1600m altitude that get a southern or northern seasonal influence that is strong enough and a drier period at the right time could do ok.The minimums should 15 to 20c most of the time and then dip lower to maybe 10c for a short while to trigger flowering.To find a place like this with a suitable rainfall pattern could be challenging but there are likely to be some suitable areas.
I understand mauritius has the correct rainfall pattern and the lychee areas dip below key flowering trigger temperatures at the right time. That Kenyan article was whipped up in an information vacuum and says nothing.

Soren

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Re: Ultra tropical lychee from Thailand
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2014, 04:39:34 PM »
I'm sure ICRAF has done their homework, but the climatic diversity in Kenya is vast and I guess they will be trying it out in the cooler and higher altitude areas including towards the Ugandan border near mount Elgon. Never the less, they are likely testing more than one location.
Søren
Kampala, Uganda