The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: beefyboy on December 02, 2016, 10:29:32 PM
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A few new mangoes have been pre-released! They are coming very soon and many collectors will be thrilled and pulling out a few trees if there is no room. lol Orange Essence #40-33, more than likely an Orange Sherbet seedling and Phoenix are now in my front row. I will be very curious to taste my Orange Sherbet and compare it to Orange Essence.
(https://s14.postimg.cc/qgdxq2a7x/20161202_160053_jpg_Orange_Essence_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qgdxq2a7x/)
(https://s14.postimg.cc/tbr0wxe7x/20161202_160115_jpg_Orange_Essence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tbr0wxe7x/)
(https://s14.postimg.cc/6obrqrynx/20161202_215020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6obrqrynx/)
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Ack no dont mention orange sherbert.. The forum might melt down.
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lmao I know Druss! Cotton Candy is coming and saw it first hand but I have no interest myself.
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Wha what what?!?
How does one be privy to the pre-released :).
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I am not privy at all, As told to me, they were released at only one or a few of each variety per certain nurseries. I was just very lucky!
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Based on prior information, it was 40-36 that was being named Orange Essence. Either way, 40-33 is Kent x Gary and 40-36 is Edward x Gary.
This has no relationship nor taate like that of Orange Sherbert. Both 40-33 and 40-36 were part of the same breeding project. There were no new breeding done from seedling if that original project
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Thanks for that info and I found that in another post and was wondering if it was wrong or a mistake. What do you think of this Orange Essence and flavor profile?
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Ok, with a name like Orange Essence I would think.... actually not, I have Peach Cobbler!
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Orange Essence is good to very good. Has a more of a generic citrusy componenet but not candy-like like OS, LZ or Peaxh Cobbler. To me, does not have that super wow factor but when the fruit was sold, it was well liked by many. Does not really have that orangey taste like OS. Phoenix and Cotfon Candy are much better, these are top tier.
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Ok, with a name like Orange Essence I would think.... actually not, I have Peach Cobbler!
And if you have never tasted Peaxh Cobbler, it taates nothing like peaxhes. It has a distinxtive tangering flavor....thats the funny thing about the names they are given.
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Thanks for that info! I had a good feeling about Phoenix with it's parentage. Cotton candy may be great but unless I had many tastings and knew for sure, I would not pull the trigger.
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Yes, I was making my remarks above about Peach Cobbler as just that!
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Thanks for that info! I had a good feeling about Phoenix with it's parentage. Cotton candy may be great but unless I had many tastings and knew for sure, I would not pull the trigger.
If you have the room, it is well worth it. Has a distinct cotton candy component to it plus it is later season.
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I would have to kick out Sweet Tart which I really did not like. It was it's first year bearing so am giving it one more year to possibly improve. I rated it at 9.5 with one tasting from your coast, but in this area on my soil, it really was average at best. I held it to solid yellow on the tree, fully tree ripened.
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Yes, I was making my remarks above about Peach Cobbler as just that!
Yeah, if you want a peach flavor in a mango, Juicy Peach is the way to go. It was consistently possibly the best mango I had in 2016.
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I would have to kick out Sweet Tart which I really did not like. It was it's first year bearing so am giving it one more year to possibly improve. I rated it at 9.5 with one tasting from your coast, but in this area on my soil, it really was average at best. I held it to solid yellow on the tree, fully tree ripened.
Thats odd. As you know, it is an amazing mango. If I were you, I would give it some time to see if age makes it better. By fhe way, last year here was not a great mango year and Sweet Tart was veey good but not as great as it can be and like ut has been in prior years.
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That juicy peach caught my attention by all your reviews on here but I have canned peaches in Dot. But trust me, it does entice me and now that you said that, it entices me more! changing direction, That Phoenix is the biggest 3 gallon I have seen in awhile. Something tells me it is going to be a large tree.
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That juicy peach caught my attention by all your reviews on here but I have canned peaches in Dot. But trust me, it does entice me and now that you said that, it entices me more! changing direction, That Phoenix is the biggest 3 gallon I have seen in awhile. Something tells me it is going to be a large tree.
If it takes anything growthwise from its parent, Dot, it may be vigorous. Taste wise, way better than Dot and did not seem to have the powdery mildew susceptibility.
I sent you a PM
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I can only say You are the only person I know of on here who knew of its flavor profile and were the lucky guy to try it, there was zero info anywhere on it as you know. It almost sounded as if it was your favorite, or close to favorite mango. So Sweet Tart is now 2nd? lol
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I can only say You are the only person I know of on here who knew of its flavor profile and were the lucky guy to try it, there was zero info anywhere on it as you know. It almost sounded as if it was your favorite, or close to favorite mango. So Sweet Tart is now 2nd? lol
There were very few Cotton Candy fruit availa le let year cause they sacrificed the crop to harvest the budwood to graft the current batch of trees. There was a good number of fruit available the year before and I had the opportunity to enjoy a number of them and they were consistently fantastic. I had one last year and it was equall to those of the previous year.
I would have to say, for me, top 5 of released varieties are Sweet Tart, Cotton Candy. Phoenix, Sweet Tart, Juicy Peach and Lemon Zest (oops, thats 6)...any of which could fall in any in any order depending on the individual fruit.
There are also a few that have not been released that would compete for a top position. Hopefully they will be released in the near future but who knows.
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what's the flavor profile of phoenix?
of course I ask this while simultaneously scratching my head as to where I would put another tree.
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what's the flavor profile of phoenix?
of course I ask this while simultaneously scratching my head as to where I would put another tree.
+1...smh, we have a problem
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Does Bender have any of these for sale yet?
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Does Bender have any of these for sale yet?
Sent you a PM
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I would have to kick out Sweet Tart which I really did not like. It was it's first year bearing so am giving it one more year to possibly improve.
Have found most fruit trees do not render good fruit until they have some age under their belt and that includes avocados. Venture to say it has something to do with the fruit load to canopy/root mass balance. Next year drop 1/2 of the fruit if the canopy will not support more.
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I would have to kick out Sweet Tart which I really did not like. It was it's first year bearing so am giving it one more year to possibly improve.
Have found most fruit trees do not render good fruit until they have some age under their belt and that includes avocados. Venture to say it has something to do with the fruit load to canopy/root mass balance. Next year drop 1/2 of the fruit if the canopy will not support more.
Correct. It also puts undue stress on the tree. Thats why its best not to let young mango and avocado trees hold fruit to maturity.
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agree with all you guys! I only let my Sweet Tart hold two at ten ft. in height and solidly rooted. All seem to never show their true flavors right away but you sure can get an idea in most cases.
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All I can say is that if Phoenix is way better than Dot, all else will not matter, the Sweet Tart will be pulled!!
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Few days ago Donald Trump tweeted out that Orange Essence is his new favorite mango. That he almost felt it was named after him/ He had his groundsman plant three OE trees at his Mar Al Lago estate in Palm Beach.
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maybe if he likes it enough
he will invest in research to get them to grow in DC...
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Few days ago Donald Trump tweeted out that Orange Essence is his new favorite mango. That he almost felt it was named after him/ He had his groundsman plant three OE trees at his Mar Al Lago estate in Palm Beach.
lol wat...
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Damn that was a good one!
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Few days ago Donald Trump tweeted out that Orange Essence is his new favorite mango. That he almost felt it was named after him/ He had his groundsman plant three OE trees at his Mar Al Lago estate in Palm Beach.
iT'S GONNA BE HUGE!
Remains to be seen if Orange Essence Trump's Orange Sherbert.
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Does Bender have any of these for sale yet?
Sent you a PM
What did this PM say ? Haha :)
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I know i shouldn't have, but just picked up a Phoenix.
Replacing the Meyer lemon
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I was excited about cotton candy... but I think I have reached the next level, which is more anxiety. How long before someone offers this via mail order?
Feels like it will be at least a couple years before it gets propagated to big/bigger nurseries.
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Here it is, the newest memeber, a Phoenix Mango
Sorry for the bad picture, I would replace my phone but i keep spending money on trees.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/644/31470924966_0f04a97eaa_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PWYHyA)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/23/30667664954_53092f71a0_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NHZNm3)
Its actually pretty tall so i might have to cut it back a few inches so it branches waist height (once in the ground).
That means I'll have one scion in March.
Any info on the tree, I know it hasn't been out long?
All i know is its a Dot seedling and taste great (Rob's review)
Disease resistance? Vigor?
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Here it is, the newest memeber, a Phoenix Mango
Sorry for the bad picture, I would replace my phone but i keep spending money on trees.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/644/31470924966_0f04a97eaa_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PWYHyA)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/23/30667664954_53092f71a0_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NHZNm3)
Its actually pretty tall so i might have to cut it back a few inches so it branches waist height (once in the ground).
That means I'll have one scion in March.
Any info on the tree, I know it hasn't been out long?
All i know is its a Dot seedling and taste great (Rob's review)
Disease resistance? Vigor?
Mother tree aside, there is no point of reference on the tree'traits grafted onto nursery stock. I guess we will all get to observe and chime in over time.
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Rob
I've heard the fruit is In The same class of ST. What size is the fruit? Can you give us the taste profile? I understand rootstock matters but is the mother tree productive ? Some of the questions we have regarding:
Phoenix
Kathy
Orange Essence
Cotton Candy
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Here it is, the newest memeber, a Phoenix Mango
Sorry for the bad picture, I would replace my phone but i keep spending money on trees.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/644/31470924966_0f04a97eaa_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PWYHyA)
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/23/30667664954_53092f71a0_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NHZNm3)
Its actually pretty tall so i might have to cut it back a few inches so it branches waist height (once in the ground).
That means I'll have one scion in March.
Any info on the tree, I know it hasn't been out long?
All i know is its a Dot seedling and taste great (Rob's review)
Disease resistance? Vigor?
Great score! Where can a mango enthusiast get a tree like this in the Central/south FL area? I appreciate the help! If you end up with scions in march I have been keeping a couple root stocks around for just this occasion and would love to get scions!
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Congrats John! I just put mine in the ground two weeks ago and it is pushing hard already. The Phoenix seems to be a very vigorous variety, I gave mine plenty of room to grow without obstruction of other trees. It's parent Dot is close by however!
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When do Juicy Peach, Cotton Candy, and Phoenix ripen--early season, mid, or late? I'm sure the information is somewhere on this forum, but can you make it easy for me (probably Rob)?
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When do Juicy Peach, Cotton Candy, and Phoenix ripen--early season, mid, or late? I'm sure the information is somewhere on this forum, but can you make it easy for me (probably Rob)?
Mid, late, mid, in the order you asked.
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Thanks, Rob. Is Cotton Candy later than Venus, or about the same? Oh, and is it a whole lot better?
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Thanks, Rob. Is Cotton Candy later than Venus, or about the same? Oh, and is it a whole lot better?
I would say similar to Venus. Have not seen Cotton Candy earlier than August.
For my taste, I prefer Cotton Candy. Its more of a sugar bomb, with definite complexity.
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But Venus is generally a smaller, more manageable tree?
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Do both Phoenix and Juicy Peach come from Dot? And do we know if Cotton Candy is a manageable tree and how the tree size compares in size and growth habits to Venus or Honey Kiss?
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But Venus is generally a smaller, more manageable tree?
Dont know yet. Have to see how Cotton Candy does on nursery stock.
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Do both Phoenix and Juicy Peach come from Dot? And do we know if Cotton Candy is a manageable tree and how the tree size compares in size and growth habits to Venus or Honey Kiss?
Phoenix from Dot.
Juicy Peach from Tommy Atkins (i believe crossed with Gary)
Honey Kiss is much more compact and slower than Venus. Dont know how truly comoact Venus will be. I have seen some sprawl a little and some not, both with medium vigor.
Again, Phoenix on nursery rootstock...have to jump in my time machine and let you know.
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So is it safe to say that all the good qualities of Dot have been transferred to Phoenix--super-sweetness, luscious juiciness, and rich flavor?
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So is it safe to say that all the good qualities of Dot have been transferred to Phoenix--super-sweetness, luscious juiciness, and rich flavor?
Sweet, complex, juicy without the Dot distinctive "resin" component...very much different than Dot (its not a clone of Dot). If it were just like Dot, doubt there would have been any reason to release it.
Hopefully it doesnt carry it susceptibility to powdery mildew.
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I just don't see Dot having a resin taste when properly tree ripened then counter ripened a few days. I definitely have tasted it if slightly underripe and that is easy to do with Dot.
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(https://s30.postimg.cc/crkqpazh9/20150816_124456.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/crkqpazh9/)
I have never gotten powdery mildew om my Dot! The Heritage DF 50 fungicide will keep all mango trees clean from Ice Cream to Pina Colada, and the fruit spotless! Here is a typical Dot about three days away from perfect.
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If you're within a mile or two of the coast, fungal diseases are not that big of a deal. That's why Walter Zill can grow such beautiful mangoes with very little effort. But if you're 10 or more miles inland, fungus is a pain in the neck to deal with -- even with azoxystrobin. Deeper into the inland, like where Squam / Alex grows, it's a nightmare.
You should be rotating the Heritage with a non-Qol fungicide to prevent resistance issues.
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I am wondering if it is due to maybe climate with the resinous taste you speak of. I also know your area seems to have more fungal problems!
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Yes, you are correct on fungicides! I sure hope people read before applying. At UF I had to draw the chemical chains and breakdowns of over 200 chemicals, try that for fun Cookie! lol
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I would not ever be using Copper as a fungicide, that is a huge mistake for many reasons. DF 50 works on the atp of the fungal cells, nothing can continue to grow. I believe if memory is not failing me, you can use up to 7 times a year, with a residual up to 28 days. I literally use it 3 times, and look at that fruit you see in the pic Jeff. You just need to know what your doing when using fungicides or any chemical.
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Hey Jeff! does my memory serve me correctly and you never used fungicides until recently after seeing poor fruit quality and production? I was always wondering why you spent so much time and money to plant them, and then you were too lazy to care for them, that cracked me up!
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How far are you from the coast?
I think azoxystrobin is up to 6x per year, but no more than 2 sequential applications.
Copper is actually very effective. Same with sulfur. There are no issues with rotating contact fungicides with group 11 fungicides that I'm aware of.
Yes, I tried the lazy route for many years. Now I'm doing the complete opposite -- taking excellent care of the orchard. Night and day difference. But being inland and near a canal, I still struggle with fungus on the more susceptible trees. You coast dwellers are spoiled...
Hey Jeff! does my memory serve me correctly and you never used fungicides until recently after seeing poor fruit quality and production? I was always wondering why you spent so much time and money to plant them, and then you were too lazy to care for them, that cracked me up!
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I just don't see Dot having a resin taste when properly tree ripened then counter ripened a few days. I definitely have tasted it if slightly underripe and that is easy to do with Dot.
Resin may be the wrong term (I used it cause thats what came to mind for lack of a better word) but it definitely has a distinctive quality above its sweet richness, even when fully ripe. If picked too ripe it can actually have an off-putting quality/characteristic. I found Phoenix to be superior when comparing the two.
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Hey Rob! Now I understand what you mean! Very similar to myself when growing the Ice Cream mango. I heard people rave about it, but there is a component to it's flavor profile that doesn't work for me but does for others. Also where it is grown could further enhance that component. I know from growing tomatoes here and growing the same exact varieties in Georgia, changes the flavor profile completely. Of course it matters who is growing them as well. Speaking of mango flavors: With the Zill mangoes I have tasted, their fruit has a distinct mineral taste that can turn me off a little bit. They seem to be grown with something, possibly potassium, that is lingering in the background. I know they have to pick them early and cannot pick them for perfection, but their is a key element that they use, that to me, throws off the taste. The nuances of tomatoes trained my taste buds so much over the last 25 years that I pick the subtleties of mango flavors much more easily in comparison. I would love to try a few tree ripened Dots over by you and compare it to a few of mine to see slight changes in their flavor profile. I do know you are also keen on the complexity of mango flavors, you would make a damn good OP tomato grower, for you understand the proper ripening of fruit and their variable nature and tendencies. Changing thought, It is also much easier to know the ins and outs of a variety if you have the tree and care for it vs observing it at a different location, which brings me too the Juicy Peach mango, your baby! you have me wishing I would have just planted that damn tree. I can tell in a smoothie, it would blend perfectly with other fruits.Let me know if you processed any to freeze and how they turned out? Seems they would not be the best to freeze but I would not worry too much for I have frozen Carrie, and they are a pain to freeze.
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Yes Jeff, Glad your orchard is going well, congrats! you are correct on 6 applications per year on DF, and like I said, I was guessing off the top of my head on that one, I was off by one app. I use so many different fungicides and chems, that citing exact label use without the label in front of me, I can sometimes be slightly off, that is why I said read your label and be smart before applying. And that means rotating chems to label use! I only said I use 3 applications per season, I did not say anything about this being the only fungicide I use nor would I tell someone to only use DF 50. Azoxystrobin is the chemical name as you now understand , I used the term DF 50 for you guys on here, so you know what the heck I am talking about, I kept it simple so fellow members could look up the brand and then research it. I am licensed for both Agriculture and commercial use of any chemical, and that includes all restrictive use chems, and This is what I do for a living. I have a degree from UF in chemical usage and basically tried to explain this a few posts ago. Rotation of chems means using different Chemical classes, this is what they are called (classes). Modes of action is just as important to know for that is the anatomical change at the cellular level. I could go on and on but it is useless to go into it, it would bore most on here. I come on here to do what most of you do and here about the new releases, not get into chemical talk.
As far as Copper Sulphate and other copper products goes, you should really research them much more. The hazards and dangers are far greater long term than most any fungicide out there. For instance in turf grass, it is fully intact at the surface 5 months after application. The crap pollutes the environment and does not break down at all. It contaminates groundwater with continuous use and the label is listed with the signal word DANGER for a good reason. All fungicides I use have the signal word caution! In Vineyards where workers use the Bordeaux formula, many have toxic levels in there bodies within 3 - 15 years of use.It is highly absorbed through the skin so people thinking it is safe or ORGANIC need to learn the truth. Check out kidney damage with COPPER! Daconil is far superior on crops in all ways IMO and breaks down within 5 days easily, where Copper never does, it just keeps building up in your soil and slowly goes through a sandy soil into the water table to some extent. Plain common sense will tell you it is a metal and is permanent. It is popular due to cost and organic growers love it to keep the costs low and profits high.
And by all means use full length clothing and gloves and the disposal P100 respirators, order them in a 2 pack online cheap.
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For copper, Nordox is awesome (copper oxide, signal word caution).
High pH conditions and high organic content tie up copper. In this area I see a lot more copper deficiency than I do build-up -- leading to severe gummosis and eventual tree death. So, copper fungicide actually doubles as a fertilizer in my case. (My last lab test recommended addition of a couple of pounds of copper per acre...)
If the soil is already copper-sufficient, a low volume mister (eg, the Solo 451) can help in reducing the amount of copper needed. I can cover 32 mango trees with 3 tablespoons of Nordox (at the max rate) using the mister.
At any rate, I think the smart approach is to get a soil test before concluding that copper build-up will be a problem. In a residential setting, it's doubtful that build-up is going to be an issue.
I'm pretty sure all caution labeled pesticides require long clothing plus shoes and face protection. I always suit up, even when spraying biologicals. Better safe than sorry :-).
Yes Jeff, Glad your orchard is going well, congrats! you are correct on 6 applications per year on DF, and like I said, I was guessing off the top of my head on that one, I was off by one app. I use so many different fungicides and chems, that citing exact label use without the label in front of me, I can sometimes be slightly off, that is why I said read your label and be smart before applying. And that means rotating chems to label use! I only said I use 3 applications per season, I did not say anything about this being the only fungicide I use nor would I tell someone to only use DF 50. Azoxystrobin is the chemical name as you now understand , I used the term DF 50 for you guys on here, so you know what the heck I am talking about, I kept it simple so fellow members could look up the brand and then research it. I am licensed for both Agriculture and commercial use of any chemical, and that includes all restrictive use chems, and This is what I do for a living. I have a degree from UF in chemical usage and basically tried to explain this a few posts ago. Rotation of chems means using different Chemical classes, this is what they are called (classes). Modes of action is just as important to know for that is the anatomical change at the cellular level. I could go on and on but it is useless to go into it, it would bore most on here. I come on here to do what most of you do and here about the new releases, not get into chemical talk.
As far as Copper Sulphate and other copper products goes, you should really research them much more. The hazards and dangers are far greater long term than most any fungicide out there. For instance in turf grass, it is fully intact at the surface 5 months after application. The crap pollutes the environment and does not break down at all. It contaminates groundwater with continuous use and the label is listed with the signal word DANGER for a good reason. All fungicides I use have the signal word caution! In Vineyards where workers use the Bordeaux formula, many have toxic levels in there bodies within 3 - 15 years of use.It is highly absorbed through the skin so people thinking it is safe or ORGANIC need to learn the truth. Check out kidney damage with COPPER! Daconil is far superior on crops in all ways IMO and breaks down within 5 days easily, where Copper never does, it just keeps building up in your soil and slowly goes through a sandy soil into the water table to some extent. Plain common sense will tell you it is a metal and is permanent. It is popular due to cost and organic growers love it to keep the costs low and profits high.
And by all means use full length clothing and gloves and the disposal P100 respirators, order them in a 2 pack online cheap.
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Have you had any issues with phytotoxicity when using Daconil / chlorothalonil? I'm reading that it's phytotoxic to fruit larger than golfball size: http://www.mango.org/Mangos/media/Media/Documents/Research%20And%20Resources/Research/Industry/Post-Harvest/Anthracnose_Mangos_Final_Report_Eng.pdf (http://www.mango.org/Mangos/media/Media/Documents/Research%20And%20Resources/Research/Industry/Post-Harvest/Anthracnose_Mangos_Final_Report_Eng.pdf)
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you can be assured all caution labels require long clothing. I would be written up and also stupid if I didn't wear protection. All copper can dangerous to people and the environment, it is not the same as natural copper levels in the soil. Testing your soil is not going to change the issue of copper intrusion of groundwater.
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agree with you on mister, totally, very true and was going to recommend one for exactly this usage. I am talking to everyone here about copper for general use, this is not directed at you at all Jeff.
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Take a look at the differences between Daconil and Copper. Daconil is listed as a "PAN Bad Actor," is carcinogenic to humans, "very highly toxic" to fish, potential for ground water contamination, etc. Daconil is also not on the EPA's reduced risk pesticide list (azoxystrobin is) and is phytotoxic to a number of species of plants.
Daconil: http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC34550 (http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC34550)
Copper (Nordox): http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC33548 (http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC33548)
Here's a quick summary comparison (top is Daconil's active ingredient, bottom is Nordox's active ingredient:
(https://s30.postimg.cc/54gw6a5ot/copper_v_daconil.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/54gw6a5ot/)
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When on edible plants it is very safe and about as good as it gets, it really has a (0 DAY WAIT) between spraying and harvest, but I like to wait myslf about 5 days like I mentioned. The carcinogenic properties are only potential, they would and could never put a zero day spraying to harvest if your carcinogenic thoughts were at all based on real research with a definitive outcome. Daconil breaks down rapidly with sun exposure, copper never will. Daconil can penetrate into groundwater yes, especially if someone is not properly educated on use, drift, wind, blowers & misters, and so on. You can take about half of what people eat and it can be carcinogenic. Take for instance bacon! If you eat that crap, it is far more carcinogenic than treating your mango trees with a few yearly doses of Daconil, Chlorothalonil at 29.6% actives. Octanoate has major advantages over sulphate based copper fungicides. IMO but won't they do not talk about or tell you is it's persistence in the soil. Persistence meaning length of time it is in the soil. Copper has inherent negatives and it is just that, a mineral that does not degrade. The big difference is it's lower overall volume of inert being used with Octanoate. The EPA backs it but long term studies are not available yet. All chemicals have negatives, especially when someone is not licensed and trained to use them or really understand data research that is put out that is accurate. I will always trust Daconil for safety reasons for food and consumption of it when used properly over copper Sulphate products including Octa, Octa is being pushed by massive dollars in advertising and also lobbying the deal. I have seen so many studies on rats and mice over a 30 year period and so many are very flawed. You would be better off throwing out out much of the food and soda you feed your family for I bet it is far more dangerous and life threatening over the years than Daconil ever will be. lol Good luck Jeff!
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Octoanate (eg, Cueva) isn't very effective under high disease pressure. It also washes off with rain. I gave up on it and switched to Nordox.
Copper isn't that big of a deal. It's an essential micronutrient that is found in many complete fertilizers. The micronutrient blend that I use, for example, contains about 1 ounce of copper per 50 pound bag.
Soil persistence of nutrients is only an issue if one applies to the point of toxicity. Same goes for many other essential nutrients, boron being a notable example.
Daconil's issues aren't limited to its carcinogenic properties (which by the way is not based on my thoughts -- it's classified as group b "probable human carcinogen" by the EPA, see page 9: https://a816-healthpsi.nyc.gov/ll37/pdf/carcclassJuly2004_1.pdf).
If you're working, say, an old avocado grove where the previous owners sprayed way too much copper, then something like daconil may be a suitable rotator. But a blanket statement precluding the use of copper without even testing for the presence or lack of copper seems unwise. I think copper is a great product for dooryard mango groves.
When on edible plants it is very safe and about as good as it gets, it really has a (0 DAY WAIT) between spraying and harvest, but I like to wait myslf about 5 days like I mentioned. The carcinogenic properties are only potential, they would and could never put a zero day spraying to harvest if your carcinogenic thoughts were at all based on real research with a definitive outcome. Daconil breaks down rapidly with sun exposure, copper never will. Daconil can penetrate into groundwater yes, especially if someone is not properly educated on use, drift, wind, blowers & misters, and so on. You can take about half of what people eat and it can be carcinogenic. Take for instance bacon! If you eat that crap, it is far more carcinogenic than treating your mango trees with a few yearly doses of Daconil, Chlorothalonil at 29.6% actives. Octanoate has major advantages over sulphate based copper fungicides. IMO but won't they do not talk about or tell you is it's persistence in the soil. Persistence meaning length of time it is in the soil. Copper has inherent negatives and it is just that, a mineral that does not degrade. The big difference is it's lower overall volume of inert being used with Octanoate. The EPA backs it but long term studies are not available yet. All chemicals have negatives, especially when someone is not licensed and trained to use them or really understand data research that is put out that is accurate. I will always trust Daconil for safety reasons for food and consumption of it when used properly over copper Sulphate products including Octa, Octa is being pushed by massive dollars in advertising and also lobbying the deal. I have seen so many studies on rats and mice over a 30 year period and so many are very flawed. You would be better off throwing out out much of the food and soda you feed your family for I bet it is far more dangerous and life threatening over the years than Daconil ever will be. lol Good luck Jeff!
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I do not use daconil for commercial use, I only use it for limited personal use like I mentioned. It is used mainly on hydroponic tomato use and very limited, so no exposure to anything else or ability to get onto the ground which I would not be concerned with anyway. I have not even used Daconil on my 2016' crop if that tells you anything.
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I would personally never use anything on my root crops, lettuce, or in ground edibles. For knowing and using chems, no pesticides ever hit my property, only limited use fungicides when needed on certain hydro systems, others not. Chemistry of product dictates usage!
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Switch 62.5 might be one to look at as an alternator in areas where copper toxicity is already present. It's Reduced Risk, caution label, 12 hour reentry, and 0 day PHI for mango. Per literature, it's reasonably effective against both powdery mildew and anthracnose. But one would need to follow the resistance guidelines (no more than 4 sprays per year, no more than 2 consecutive).
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If I had a problem I would be looking further but to be frank Jeff, I have had none in ages and I have a friend who graduated from Cornell University in the plant microbe Biology section and also one professor at UF that I keep in contact with. I only fix other peoples problems around here now.
But I would be glad to hear what you think of Juicy Peach and your ratings on it in comparison to Peach cobbler and Dot! I would love your thoughts on that?
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:-) I haven't had either yet. But I'm skeptical that either can be as good as a Dot.
If I had a problem I would be looking further but to be frank Jeff, I have had none in ages and I have a friend who graduated from Cornell University in the plant microbe Biology section and also one professor at UF that I keep in contact with. I only fix other peoples problems around here now.
But I would be glad to hear what you think of Juicy Peach and your ratings on it in comparison to Peach cobbler and Dot! I would love your thoughts on that?
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:-) I haven't had either yet. But I'm skeptical that either can be as good as a Dot.
If I had a problem I would be looking further but to be frank Jeff, I have had none in ages and I have a friend who graduated from Cornell University in the plant microbe Biology section and also one professor at UF that I keep in contact with. I only fix other peoples problems around here now.
But I would be glad to hear what you think of Juicy Peach and your ratings on it in comparison to Peach cobbler and Dot! I would love your thoughts on that?
This is where tastes are subjective. In my opinion, both JP and Peach Cobbler blow Dot out of the water. With that said, keep in mind I am on the "Carrie hater" list.
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I knew Rob would say that and I knew Jeff would say that! lmao
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Rob, why did you bring Carrie into this? lol You saw what I did too mine! I always like your opinions on fruit tastes but blowing out of the water may be a little bit of a stretch, Don't you think? I would hope I might feel the same and agree, for that would mean Dot is great to me and those two are mind boggling. But how does Phoenix rise above that then? Your quote was possibly the best mango ever?
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I cannot argue with Jeff! A great Dot can be an out of body experience. Jeff, why does Lemon Zest score above Dot for you? Unless it is not your #1 any more. Myself, at first I thought it was even with Dot or slightly better sometimes. Then after eating 20 of the LZ, I preferred Dot for it's all around balance and the perfect smoothie mango IMO
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Is there somewhere that I can buy some Juicy Peach this summer?
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Actually Jeff, I only knew you loved Dot and Lemon Zest, the other two I had no idea you never tried them. Peach cobbler I will finally get off my tree and have tried only a few and they were picked and eaten too early. Juicy is the one I am most curious about however. I am hearing all over the board whether it tastes like peach or tastes a little like citrus or a combo of the two flavors. It looks like a fat and plump little mango in a pic I saw.
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Dot and Lemon Zest are in the same class to me. I might have a tiny preference towards lemon zest, but they're both in the same league.
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Is there somewhere that I can buy some Juicy Peach this summer?
So long as we dont have a problematic fruit set, I should be able to get you Juicy Peach to taste.
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Rob, why did you bring Carrie into this? lol You saw what I did too mine! I always like your opinions on fruit tastes but blowing out of the water may be a little bit of a stretch, Don't you think? I would hope I might feel the same and agree, for that would mean Dot is great to me and those two are mind boggling. But how does Phoenix rise above that then? Your quote was possibly the best mango ever?
I brought Carrie into the discussion only to reiterate that tastes are subjective. While its known I am not a fan whatsoever, many like or love it and there is nothing wrong with that (ez9xept that those who do may need a taste bud readjustment, hahahahaha).
Ok, maybe not blow it out of the water but I would choose bith Juicy Peach and Peach Cobbler any day of the week when comparing all 3 together. Will I eat a Dot, yes.
Phoenix, in my opinion, should rival the best of the best (which would include Cotton Candy)...and the unreleased E-4 and the better M-4, Karen Michelle and a couple of Walter Zill's varieties. Phoenix may have come from Dot, as does Pina Colada, but it is not and should not be considered an improved Dot. Its very much different than Dot.
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That was very well put Rob, thanks. And thanks Jeff for your input. I would highly appreciate a sampling of Juicy P. if it is attainable Rob. I know to try Phoenix this year would be an act of God so I will not bother with that pursuit and will wait a few years.
Was there any categories that Phoenix fell into when you tried it? I know you said no acid, intensely sweet, and also Complex! Do you remember what type of complexity ? Does it have a straight out deep mango taste hard to describe or was it possibly subtle hints of fruit flavors in it? With one sampling that is a tall order to fill so I understand if you want to pass on that one.
Did Juicy Peach climb the ranks for you based on smoothness of mango with hints of clean flavors that grow on you? That is what I guess could possibly be the reason it won you over. It seems Peach Cobbler has a little more intensity of a distinct tangerine flavor you mentioned and Juicy has a bit more of a laid back flavor profile with subtle nuances of peach that can border on citrus. I suspect also it is not in your face as some of the other new releases can be. Peach Cobbler I have in no way experienced properly yet. It was not even within two days of being ripe so was not only picked too early but was also way under ripe.
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Another thing with trying to evaluate new varieties--one or two samplings never tell the whole story. I think it takes a lot of sampling from several trees in various locations over the course of a few years to be able to properly evaluate a variety. (Reading over some of his comments from the last few years, it seems that maybe Rob was initially not excited about Juicy Peach and now it's one of his favorites?)
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Another thing with trying to evaluate new varieties--one or two samplings never tell the whole story. I think it takes a lot of sampling from several trees in various locations over the course of a few years to be able to properly evaluate a variety. (Reading over some of his comments from the last few years, it seems that maybe Rob was initially not excited about Juicy Peach and now it's one of his favorites?)
The bigger issue with sampling is that the fruit come from mature trees, not a 3 or 4 year old tree. Equally as important is the fruit be at the right stage when picked. This is the main variable that has caused my liking of Juicy Peach to rise. Too many people pick the fruit early green and some I have tasted where thry have waited until the fruit drop from the tree. It is finding the right stage for each variety between these two extremes to best analyze a variety.
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That was very well put Rob, thanks. And thanks Jeff for your input. I would highly appreciate a sampling of Juicy P. if it is attainable Rob. I know to try Phoenix this year would be an act of God so I will not bother with that pursuit and will wait a few years.
Was there any categories that Phoenix fell into when you tried it? I know you said no acid, intensely sweet, and also Complex! Do you remember what type of complexity ? Does it have a straight out deep mango taste hard to describe or was it possibly subtle hints of fruit flavors in it? With one sampling that is a tall order to fill so I understand if you want to pass on that one.
Did Juicy Peach climb the ranks for you based on smoothness of mango with hints of clean flavors that grow on you? That is what I guess could possibly be the reason it won you over. It seems Peach Cobbler has a little more intensity of a distinct tangerine flavor you mentioned and Juicy has a bit more of a laid back flavor profile with subtle nuances of peach that can border on citrus. I suspect also it is not in your face as some of the other new releases can be. Peach Cobbler I have in no way experienced properly yet. It was not even within two days of being ripe so was not only picked too early but was also way under ripe.
Juicy Peach rose in my ranks after trying a number of them that had been harvested at the right time. When done so, all the great characteristics come out in terms of their flavor, intensity, texture, juiciness, etc.
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Totally totally agree and we all agree with this. This is all about inquiring minds want to know! lol Just give it your best shot Rob, the crowd is waiting!
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Look at Buy Sell Trade
I have CC and OE
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any information on karla, delores, seacrest, little gem, nancy, ambrosia, buttercream, honeykiss?
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any information on karla, delores, seacrest, little gem, nancy, ambrosia, buttercream, honeykiss?
Never heard of any of those, what are they?
Just kidding...however, did you read this post and/or search this site? Most all have been discussed.
Not sure what Karla is. Didnt see that last I was there. Didnt see Buttercream, also known as POG or Pot-o-Gold for those who have bought from Walter in the past, released either but maybe new for January if truly released. I k ow a few who liked it but was only an average fruit for the many years the fruit was sold by Walter.
Honey Kiss is not new at all, much written about it on this site.
Seacrest fruit has been sold for many years by Walter. Not really a wow factor IMO but there are a bunch that really liked it. It is an Edward seedling crossed with Gary. It is creamy and has a pure straightforward mango flavor in the same manner that Harvest Moon does.
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any information on karla, delores, seacrest, little gem, nancy, ambrosia, buttercream, honeykiss?
Never heard of any of those, what are they?
Just kidding...however, did you read this post and/or search this site? Most all have been discussed.
Not sure what Karla is. Didnt see that last I was there. Didnt see Buttercream, also known as POG or Pot-o-Gold for those who have bought from Walter in the past, released either but maybe new for January if truly released. I k ow a few who liked it but was only an average fruit for the many years the fruit was sold by Walter.
Honey Kiss is not new at all, much written about it on this site.
Seacrest fruit has been sold for many years by Walter. Not really a wow factor IMO but there are a bunch that really liked it. It is an Edward seedling crossed with Gary. It is creamy and has a pure straightforward mango flavor in the same manner that Harvest Moon does.
I thought Buttercream and POG were separate varieties?
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How does Orange Essence taste/texture?
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Anyone knows these New Zill varieties?
Sambre
Pristine
Ambilka
I
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Anyone knows these New Zill varieties?
Sambre
Pristine
Ambilka
I
You still believe what she told you?
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Anyone knows these New Zill varieties?
Sambre
Pristine
Ambilka
I
You still believe what she told you?
Just curious? Maybe Alex has heard of them 😀
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I am in Miami and have been rotating out of my sick citrus into Mango. I want to thank bsbullie for your stupendous help with all the information you post here. My mango tastes I believe are most likely aligned with yours' because I too very much dislike Carrie. So just based on this I have been confidently replacing my citrus with only your suggestions. Without you I would be lost in this vast world of new mango varieties. One thing about Carrie. I used to let the ones on my tree mature on the tree then eat them. for me and my wife they had zero enjoyment. This went on for years till I turned the Carrie tree into a "cocktail" type of tree with about 7 varieties. Then a year later I tasted a Carrie that was about 2 days less ripe than the way I used to eat them and it tasted a lot more normal. I felt bad for a second for having given up on my Carrie but then I thought that even eaten earlier it didn't even come close to any Glenn. So yes thank you so so much for your dedication to this board and your love of Mangos and your no punches pulled approach in your evaluations and comments. You have truly enhanced my enjoyment of my life and hopefully when your favorite varieties mature the lives of my family and friends and neighbors. I owe you a lot just for you being you.
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Break out the violins :D
I am in Miami and have been rotating out of my sick citrus into Mango. I want to thank bsbullie for your stupendous help with all the information you post here. My mango tastes I believe are most likely aligned with yours' because I too very much dislike Carrie. So just based on this I have been confidently replacing my citrus with only your suggestions. Without you I would be lost in this vast world of new mango varieties. One thing about Carrie. I used to let the ones on my tree mature on the tree then eat them. for me and my wife they had zero enjoyment. This went on for years till I turned the Carrie tree into a "cocktail" type of tree with about 7 varieties. Then a year later I tasted a Carrie that was about 2 days less ripe than the way I used to eat them and it tasted a lot more normal. I felt bad for a second for having given up on my Carrie but then I thought that even eaten earlier it didn't even come close to any Glenn. So yes thank you so so much for your dedication to this board and your love of Mangos and your no punches pulled approach in your evaluations and comments. You have truly enhanced my enjoyment of my life and hopefully when your favorite varieties mature the lives of my family and friends and neighbors. I owe you a lot just for you being you.
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I am in Miami and have been rotating out of my sick citrus into Mango. I want to thank bsbullie for your stupendous help with all the information you post here. My mango tastes I believe are most likely aligned with yours' because I too very much dislike Carrie. So just based on this I have been confidently replacing my citrus with only your suggestions. Without you I would be lost in this vast world of new mango varieties. One thing about Carrie. I used to let the ones on my tree mature on the tree then eat them. for me and my wife they had zero enjoyment. This went on for years till I turned the Carrie tree into a "cocktail" type of tree with about 7 varieties. Then a year later I tasted a Carrie that was about 2 days less ripe than the way I used to eat them and it tasted a lot more normal. I felt bad for a second for having given up on my Carrie but then I thought that even eaten earlier it didn't even come close to any Glenn. So yes thank you so so much for your dedication to this board and your love of Mangos and your no punches pulled approach in your evaluations and comments. You have truly enhanced my enjoyment of my life and hopefully when your favorite varieties mature the lives of my family and friends and neighbors. I owe you a lot just for you being you.
Love letter to Rob.
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I have not heard of those last three varieties; but then, I didn't work there much last year.
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I assume that the main reason that well-established trees tend to have better tasting fruit, is that they have wide ranging and deep root systems, and so are able to access more minerals than smaller trees can.
In other words, proper fertilization of two-year-in-the-ground trees can make a big difference in their sweetness and total flavor: Calcium, Boron, Zinc, Potassium, Magnesium, Phosphate, etc.
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And if you have never tasted Peaxh Cobbler, it taates nothing like peaxhes. It has a distinxtive tangering flavor....thats the funny thing about the names they are given.
Aren't the "cute" names more of a marketing gimmick? I mean, who would EVER turn down a Pineapple Pleasure, Orange Sherbert, a Honey Kiss or some of that good ol Cotton Candy? ;D
Does anyone have any cultural experience with these new releases. Am talking tree vigor, resistance to pests, productivity, etc?
Mark
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I assume that the main reason that well-established trees tend to have better tasting fruit, is that they have wide ranging and deep root systems, and so are able to access more minerals than smaller trees can.
In other words, proper fertilization of two-year-in-the-ground trees can make a big difference in their sweetness and total flavor: Calcium, Boron, Zinc, Potassium, Magnesium, Phosphate, etc.
Translation - good care.
PART of my criteria of allowing any young fruiting material to hold fruit is based on canopy/root mass (support), lignifying of the trunk and main scaffold branches (chronological age) and a certain degree of girth. For example, I have a Frankencado grafted spring 2016 - Ardith, Pinkerton, Sir Prize and Holiday. It is very healthy and vigorous and loaded with blossoms, BUT, all branches are green with not much girth. So, I'll drop the fruit this year on this little 4' H tree.
You mentioned Boron, good call. Few realize the importance of that element regarding the reproductive cycle albeit in very trace amounts. You can apply either (preferred) Solubor product or boric acid.
Mark
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And if you have never tasted Peaxh Cobbler, it taates nothing like peaxhes. It has a distinxtive tangering flavor....thats the funny thing about the names they are given.
Aren't the "cute" names more of a marketing gimmick? I mean, who would EVER turn down a Pineapple Pleasure, Orange Sherbert, a Honey Kiss or some of that good ol Cotton Candy? ;D
Does anyone have any cultural experience with these new releases. Am talking tree vigor, resistance to pests, productivity, etc?
Mark
Well, in a way they are marketing but they also describe the flavor usually. The three you named above have relevance as they also accurately describe the flavors. The Orange Sherbert does have a distinct flavor of cabdied orange sherbert; Pineapple Pleasure is definitely a pineapple in a mango; and Honey Kiss not only has the distinct honey taste when fully ripe but the sap of a ripe druit also smells like honey.
Tree characteristics of these three are known. It can depend on your growing location as to ultimate outcome. The Homey Kiss is a slower, compact grower with shorter internodal space. It has very good to excellent disease resistance. Pineapple Pleasure is on the higher vigorous side with pretty stretched internodal space. It produces a full canopy. It too has good disease resistance when grown in Eastern and middle parts of PB County. Orange Sherbert, like its sister LZ and parent PPK are usually on the vigorous side. As the number of OS trees that can be observed, its difficult to make anything more determination than from a limited sampling.
All of what I have said are with these trees being grown in a mango growing region in Florida. How will they react when zone pushing and in pots or in greenhouses, it will probably be distinctive based on each circumstance.
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And if you have never tasted Peaxh Cobbler, it taates nothing like peaxhes. It has a distinxtive tangering flavor....thats the funny thing about the names they are given.
Aren't the "cute" names more of a marketing gimmick? I mean, who would EVER turn down a Pineapple Pleasure, Orange Sherbert, a Honey Kiss or some of that good ol Cotton Candy? ;D
Does anyone have any cultural experience with these new releases. Am talking tree vigor, resistance to pests, productivity, etc?
Mark
Well, in a way they are marketing but they also describe the flavor usually. The three you named above have relevance as they also accurately describe the flavors. The Orange Sherbert does have a distinct flavor of cabdied orange sherbert; Pineapple Pleasure is definitely a pineapple in a mango; and Honey Kiss not only has the distinct honey taste when fully ripe but the sap of a ripe druit also smells like honey.
Tree characteristics of these three are known. It can depend on your growing location as to ultimate outcome. The Homey Kiss is a slower, compact grower with shorter internodal space. It has very good to excellent disease resistance. Pineapple Pleasure is on the higher vigorous side with pretty stretched internodal space. It produces a full canopy. It too has good disease resistance when grown in Eastern and middle parts of PB County. Orange Sherbert, like its sister LZ and parent PPK are usually on the vigorous side. As the number of OS trees that can be observed, its difficult to make anything more determination than from a limited sampling.
All of what I have said are with these trees being grown in a mango growing region in Florida. How will they react when zone pushing and in pots or in greenhouses, it will probably be distinctive based on each circumstance.
Thanks for the excellent advise Rob. Am going to link this to our mutual friend Ed who is interested in Orange Essence and Cotton Candy, as am I and take manual notes. He gave me sticks of Pineapple Pleasure and Fruit Punch last weekend at his (incredible) Austin scion exchange, probably originally sourced from you.
As an aside I tried to do a bark graft inside very thick and rigid Mallika bark, 2" trunk, and just tore up the cambium. It's not slipping yet. Am storing those scions for a few weeks or more.
Regards,
Mark