Author Topic: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed  (Read 5674 times)

Steward

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Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« on: May 30, 2015, 12:50:29 PM »
Hello! This is my first post as I've been shaking this forum down for as much information as I can (there's TONS of info~).

I can't seem to find anything about which particular trees are "true-to-seed" or whatever it may be called.

What have you started from seed? What was your result?

Yes I realize there are cultivars but I'd prefer to pave my own way and help preserve genetic diversity. If this is a foolhardy venture in your eyes, I'd be happy to hear why.

Thank you kindly for reading and any responses are of great value to me.

Have a good one

stuartdaly88

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2015, 06:17:50 AM »
Hi Steward
Welcome to the forum Im so glad you've come out of the shadows. Many of us were lurkers once, I know I was for a long time! You will see participation is way more enjoyable there are some real experts here with top notch advice and most are unbelievably kind and happy to help us newbies:) I know I would have been lost without their help in the almost overwhelming plethora of species and information!

This is the library section used for people to.post useful documents or links pertaining to information on tropical fruit. If you ask a mod to move this topic to general discussion You will probably get a lot more responses as this is not a very active section of the forum and has minimal conversation.

On your topic most plants have quite abit of diversity so seed growing is always a gamble(I'm growing most everything from seed though he he)
polyembrionic mangos would be true to seed
Iv read some sugar apples can be fairly true.
But what I would think it all comes down to is what it was pollinated by. If the plant is self fertile and pollinated itself it should be true and if it was pollinated by a genetically similar plant it also could be ok but if it got pollinated by a different or wild species it probably won't be true at all.
Eg a cherimoya pollinated by a sugar apple would not.be true to seed at all. So it all depends I would think!

There are many much more experienced than me on this forum though this is just what iv picked up but there is probably better input to be had:)
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

fruitlovers

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2015, 08:46:47 PM »
Hello! This is my first post as I've been shaking this forum down for as much information as I can (there's TONS of info~).

I can't seem to find anything about which particular trees are "true-to-seed" or whatever it may be called.

What have you started from seed? What was your result?

Yes I realize there are cultivars but I'd prefer to pave my own way and help preserve genetic diversity. If this is a foolhardy venture in your eyes, I'd be happy to hear why.

Thank you kindly for reading and any responses are of great value to me.

Have a good one

Not fool hardy at all to start from seed, for most fruit trees. The question is how much space do you have to experiment, and how old are you? If you are very old and have a postage size gardern you should definitely stick to proven cultivars. If you are young and have acres to experiment on, and don't mind waiting extra years for fruiting, then why not try seedlings?
Really it's better to answer your question in the reverse: which plants are better not started from seeds? I would think that avocadoes and mangoes, at least the monoembryonic types of mangoes, would be the ones to avoid. Most of the very rare fruits discussed on this forum you can only start from seed because there are no known cultivars yet. And it's hard enough finding seeds for them, never mind trying to source cultivars.
You may want to know that there are some members here whose whole orchard is almost primarily seedling plants. I'm thinking mostly of Luc and Raul in Mexico. They have a hard time getting grafted plants ;but it seems like they still have nice plantings anyway.
You may want to also use the search feature on this forum. If you search for "true to seed" you will get several threads about certain species and whether or not they are true to seed.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 08:49:39 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

Steward

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2015, 01:10:18 AM »
Thank you both for the thoughtful and helpful responses. After figuring out that I was using the search function incorrectly(didn't notice drop-down menu next to search bar), I was able to dig up some great info about mono/polyembryonic seeds and a bit more about specific types and their characteristics.

I'm 24 on an acre of land in upper Puna. I've a solid half acre block entirely for a windbreak, alley crops/nitrogen-fixers/perennial types, vines and (finally) fruit trees. I'd also like to utilize the space surrounding my house but anywho... I've got the time so in that respect I cannot think of a reason not to try most of my space from seed. My wife would be really happy if I could assure her mangoes and avocados were of good quality so I'll have to work on that...

I had the pleasure of thumbing through your website fruit lovers and I'd be glad to give the whole list a better look as I didn't have much time to yet. Extensive list and all kinds of other cool stuff on there!

Again thank you both for your responses as I feel as though I've a bit more direction now. I'm also working on a list of trees and it seems to be a difficult endeavor LOL

fruitlovers

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 01:37:45 AM »
Thank you both for the thoughtful and helpful responses. After figuring out that I was using the search function incorrectly(didn't notice drop-down menu next to search bar), I was able to dig up some great info about mono/polyembryonic seeds and a bit more about specific types and their characteristics.

I'm 24 on an acre of land in upper Puna. I've a solid half acre block entirely for a windbreak, alley crops/nitrogen-fixers/perennial types, vines and (finally) fruit trees. I'd also like to utilize the space surrounding my house but anywho... I've got the time so in that respect I cannot think of a reason not to try most of my space from seed. My wife would be really happy if I could assure her mangoes and avocados were of good quality so I'll have to work on that...

I had the pleasure of thumbing through your website fruit lovers and I'd be glad to give the whole list a better look as I didn't have much time to yet. Extensive list and all kinds of other cool stuff on there!

Again thank you both for your responses as I feel as though I've a bit more direction now. I'm also working on a list of trees and it seems to be a difficult endeavor LOL

Most mangoes don't fruit well in upper Puna, especially above 1000 feet. You might want to try Mangifera odorata (Kuini) and Mangifera casturi (Kasturi). Avocados should do really well in upper Puna.
Oscar

Steward

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 04:45:44 PM »
I should have said northern Puna rather than upper, I'm sitting around 300 ft. elevation. I'm assuming mangoes that won't pool water where the stem meets the fruit would be a start as far as what I should be looking for. There's a good amount of rain where I am.

Of course, I know very little about particular fruit trees and am hoping to learn more about the ones I'd like to eat. I do appreciate any tidbits of info left for me to digest, so thank you~

fruitlovers

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2015, 01:48:31 AM »
I should have said northern Puna rather than upper, I'm sitting around 300 ft. elevation. I'm assuming mangoes that won't pool water where the stem meets the fruit would be a start as far as what I should be looking for. There's a good amount of rain where I am.

Of course, I know very little about particular fruit trees and am hoping to learn more about the ones I'd like to eat. I do appreciate any tidbits of info left for me to digest, so thank you~

What you want to look for are mangoes that have anthracnose resistance. Mangoes flower end of year. At that time usually we have highest rainfall. Wet flowers cause flowers to drop off or get diseased by anthracnose fungus.
Oscar

BigIslandGrower

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 09:34:05 AM »


Really it's better to answer your question in the reverse: which plants are better not started from seeds? I would think that avocadoes and mangoes, at least the monoembryonic types of mangoes, would be the ones to avoid. ..

I agree.  I'm sure your wife would appreciate it if you would plant her favorite cultivar of avocado, rather than messing with seedlings. One acre of land in rocky Paradise Park is not the ideal place for a lot of experimenting.  Soursop, eggfruit, mangosteen and jaboticaba are some of the fruits I know of that consistently produce good results from seed.

Steward

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2015, 12:28:13 PM »
A bunch of great info, I am indebted to both of you.

The plan was always to grow everything I could from seed and run a select few cultivars but it's obvious I know little about specific fruit trees. Also, I'm well aware that HPP isn't the best place to plant an orchard. Though through careful tending and constant additions of organic matter, I'm sure I could barrel ahead into a semi-productive plot of land. There will be much more than just fruit trees(at least I hope there will be LOL).

I was munching on an egg fruit yesterday and i will now be planting those seeds per your recommendation(thanks!). Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

I'm still in the process of determining how much I can actually fit on this plot and when I'm done with that I'll be able to decide what I really want to be growing as space is very limited.


fruitlovers

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2015, 07:04:33 PM »
Lots of HPP has pretty hard pahoehoe lava. If you can invest in renting a back hoe to dig decent sized holes and fill in with good trucked in soil. Otherwise many of your trees will not grow well in shallow hand dug holes.
Oscar

Steward

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 01:55:21 PM »
Yes sir my lot is made up of large rocks and pahoehoe lava... I just brought down a bunch of years worth of waiawi, albizia, gunpowder tree, etc. that have been whittling away at the strength of the lava crust.

My lot is very uneven. There are large rocks everywhere (most covered by a thin layer of soil) and they naturally create "planters" or nice size holes for me to fill in and plant. This doesn't guarantee that I can put my trees exactly where I want all of them, but for the holes that I need to work on I'll build up or dig as deep as possible (or both). I'll be filling holes with rotting wood debris(hugelkultr like) and whatever media I end up hauling to my property.

I feel like a broken record but I appreciate all the responses. I've been busy lately so I haven't had the time to reply.

I suspect I'll be able to fit around 7-10 fruit trees in my area and the list looks like this:
  • 2x Mango
  • Avocado
  • Lychee
  • Breadfruit
  • Orange
  • Mangosteen
  • Jaboticaba

Other trees in consideration/for other areas:
Abiu
Noni
Rollinia
Soursop
Lemon
Lime
Tangerine
Papaya
Coconut

Windbreak/Nitrogen-fixing/Misc. etc.:

Neem
Koa
Milo
Kamani
Ice Cream bean
Mother of Cacao
Moringa
Ohia(natural)




I suspect if I need to choose more or less I'll do that in time. I've still a lot of reading to do about the list above...


Aloha
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 06:01:32 PM by Steward »

BigIslandGrower

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2015, 11:26:11 AM »
How did you get rid of the albizzia?  Good move eliminating that scourge.  Abiu is another fruit that should do OK from seed.  They take some work to maintain at a good height though, even grafted trees.   I wouldn't think Koa would grow at your elevation, but don't know for sure.  Clumping bamboos are beautiful windbreaks too.

fruitlovers

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Re: Viability of a Tropical Orchard from Seed
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2015, 08:21:32 PM »
Neem will grow, but will not fruit in east Hawaii...too rainy. Also most mangoes don't fruit very well in most years in E. Hawaii. I think there are types of Koa that grow at elevation, but most will not. Most need 3000 feet or more elevation. All the other plants you list should do well at your location.
Oscar