Mango Update....3//10/2012

[HMHausman]

Continuing on my yard walk of yesterday....mangoes are now past peak bloom.  This year the peak was about two weeks ago.  The air was thick with mango perfume....or stink, depending on your perspective.  The thickness of the mango bloom scent is over powering, especially at night. Fruit set ranges from light to heavy depending on the tree.  Overall, it looks to be a slightly lighter crop overall than in previous years.  Could be becuase I really haven't done any spraying to speak of.  Just too many things going on to be able to do the spraying that i would have liked to do.  The benefit of not sraying is that you get to see just how disease resistant each variety is. The bad news, the fruit doesn't look as pretty, and in many cases, you have severe reductionon in fruit set and ultimate production.

Some of the goings on include Angie, humming right along in its second year of fruiting


Juile, flowering profusely as usual, but with typically limted fruit set


Thai Everbearing, the portion of the tree that had greaat fruit set.  This was earlier in the season as is evidenced by the size of the fruits at this time of year.  The only other fruits that are this size at this time include Kau Dwarf, Extrema, and Edward.

Here's Kau Dwarf, which I got from Hawaii a few years back.

Maha Chanok.....this one, I call Maha #2 (based on when it was planted out) is in the ground for about 16 years.  Fruit set on it is lighter than normal.  That is a 5 foot chain link fence behind it for perspective.


Jean Ellen, also in its second year of fruiting.  This was the subject of my "To Prune or not to prune posting at Garden Web.
See:  http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg1221370531594.html     
This tree still hasn't been pruned.  I just wondered what would happen to a grafted mango tree if you let it go and didn't prune.


I had some other pictures but dummy me had the wrong camera setting on and the pictures were all blurred.  I will try to post more mango news shortly.

Harry

[ericalynne]

How tall are the Julie, Angie and Jean Ellen? Do you plan to keep them small?

Great looking trees, btw.

Erica

[Tropicalgrower89]

Nice mango trees!

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi Harry,
The tree's look AWESOME

I got a tricky Question for you!  From all the Mango tree's you have planted, What's your utmost favorite Mango?

[adiel]

Hi Harry,
The tree's look AWESOME

I got a tricky Question for you!  From all the Mango tree's you have planted, What's your utmost favorite Mango?

I would guess its the Maha-Chanok.   Lets see how Harry responds.   

[Tim]

Seriously, that's all you've got Harry? Weak!!!    j/k  always appreciate you & anyone else taking the time for pictures and post them here for others like myself to enjoy.   

You should plant out 5 more Maha Chanoks just in case of sparse blooming and fruiting in the future 

[puglvr1]

Great pictures Harry! I think there might be something else going on with the lighter fruit set (possibly) weather related, just a guess? Other than you not spraying.

Last year my 2 mango trees that wasn't damaged by the freeze had a lot more blooms and eventually more fruit set than this year. I also noticed that on my mango trees that are blooming this year there's a LOT less bloom spikes. Only a very small area of one of my Cogshall has blooms...the rest got nipped by the cold snap we had in January. My inground Glenn had Powdery mildew and I sprayed too late. My best bloomer this year is the same one as last year...my other Cogshall in the front of the house.

[lycheeluva]

harry-  maybe just as the warm weather decimated lychee fruit set, it also lessened mango fruit set? did you notice less blooms than usual or only less fruit set. If the former, it could have been your warm winter?

[phantomcrab]

Harry:
The Jean Ellen looks a bit leggy. I have a newly planted 2.5 foot Pickering. Should I top it although it's a bona fide dwarf?

[HMHausman]

Hi Harry,
The tree's look AWESOME

I got a tricky Question for you!  From all the Mango tree's you have planted, What's your utmost favorite Mango?

Yes, my personal favorite is Maha Chanok, but right in the mix and in the running are Dot, Edward, Cushman, and even Spirit of 76, Southern Blush, Angie,........and actually a whole bunch more are, on a given day my favorite.

Harry:
The Jean Ellen looks a bit leggy. I have a newly planted 2.5 foot Pickering. Should I top it although it's a bona fide dwarf?

YOu can call it leggy, I call it able to be mowed around with some ease.  As to topping your Pickering, I wouldn't.  Mine has never been tooped and it is quite bushy.

How tall are the Julie, Angie and Jean Ellen? Do you plan to keep them small?

Great looking trees, btw.

Erica

Julie is now about 9 feet tall.  Angie is about 5 feet tall and Jean Ellen maybe around 6-7 feet in height.


Otherwise, thanks to all for any kind words tossed my way!

Harry

[lycheeluva]

ok- now im really offended Harry. you answer everyone but me!

[HMHausman]

harry-  maybe just as the warm weather decimated lychee fruit set, it also lessened mango fruit set? did you notice less blooms than usual or only less fruit set. If the former, it could have been your warm winter?

Gerry:

Just checking to see if you are paying attention.  LOL.  The answer is, no I don't think so.  Fruit set isn't dependent on temperature except to the extent that the weather is too cold for the pollen to pollinate.  That was certainly not the case this year.  The reason for lighter production has to do with fungus and lack of spraying.  I guess you could argue that the fungal issue may have been enhanced by the winter warmth.....so maybe indirectly, the warmer temps did affect the production.....but not in the same way as with lychee which, just didn't bloom.

Harry

[nullzero]

Great looking trees, Thai Everbearing looks so nice and healthy!

[Sleepdoc]

harry-  maybe just as the warm weather decimated lychee fruit set, it also lessened mango fruit set? did you notice less blooms than usual or only less fruit set. If the former, it could have been your warm winter?

Gerry:

Just checking to see if you are paying attention.  LOL.  The answer is, no I don't think so.  Fruit set isn't dependent on temperature except to the extent that the weather is too cold for the pollen to pollinate.  That was certainly not the case this year.  The reason for lighter production has to do with fungus and lack of spraying.  I guess you could argue that the fungal issue may have been enhanced by the winter warmth.....so maybe indirectly, the warmer temps did affect the production.....but not in the same way as with lychee which, just didn't bloom.

Harry

Harry,

Nice pics, and as always, beautiful trees..

I'm with you on the warmer winter creating more fungus issues.  I have seen more Anthracnose this year when compared to the last two seasons.  I am spraying copper, but some of my varieties are having trouble setting fruit anyway... And it definately is Athracnose. 

Angie and Pickering seem the least affected in my yard....

Alphonso and Haden ( and a couple branches of topworked Julie) seem to be the worst ..

[MangoFang]

I'm guessing CA is at least 2 months behind your mango flowering and fruiting schedule....
....well maybe 6-7 weeks.

My question for you is, what is the LAST mango to ripen in your property?

anyway, nice inspiring pics as usual....someday I'll make to south FL and say hi, I  hope......

gary

[Squam256]

For those of you who haven't tried it....Thai Everbearing is actually a pretty good mango. Worth sampling if you make it out to Harry's. Its a SE Asian type but possesses a slightly richer, more complex flavor than a lot of the other SE Asian varieties, imo. Same with Tong Dam.

[HMHausman]

My question for you is, what is the LAST mango to ripen in your property?
gary

Most years, its hands down, Neelam.  However, Keitt might give it a run for its money in some years......if it wasn't for the squirrels and birds that decimate the larger more conspicuous Keitts before they see and start picking at the smaller and more inconspicuous Neelams. And, of course, when you do make it to S. FLa.....if you don't make arrangement to stop by I will not be happy.  Wait...is that a double negative?  In other words.......you better stop by when you come down or else!

Harry

[lycheeluva]

harry- I dont think I explained my q properly- wasnt whether temperature could affect fruit set, it was whether warmer temp could negatively affect flower set, and hence lower fruit set, as happens with lychees.

or maybe you understood my q and I didnt understand your answer!

[HMHausman]

Gerry.....I think it is the latter and not the former.  As far as I know, mangoes need some stress before flowering.  That can come in the form of cooling or drying.  We experience both during our typical winter.  There does not seem to be a threshold for cooling in mangoes as there seems to be in lychees. We have certainly had sufficent bloom to set a large crop.  It just hasn't happened out my way this year.  I don't think that is directly attributable to temperature. So, I am hoping this now answers your question or helps you understand my previous answer.  If not, then maybe I am misunderstanding your question.

BTW....I drove past the lychee farms where the on line place has its property.  They have slightly more trees in bloom than I have, but it going to be a poor season there as well.....unless they get a source from elsewhere to supply their mail order customers.

Harry

[lycheeluva]

thanks harry- all clear now.
re lycheesonline, i know he certainly tries to source lychees from beyond his grove. yep, seems like florida lychees are going to be super expensive this year. hopefully the mexican crop, which ripens 4 weeks before florida crop was good. they are not quite as good as the fl crop but still very good.

last year, during peak season, mauritius lychees sold in china town for $3.33 a pound and brewster were more like $4-5 a pound.  be interesting to see what prices are this year.

[Future]

For those of you who haven't tried it....Thai Everbearing is actually a pretty good mango. Worth sampling if you make it out to Harry's. Its a SE Asian type but possesses a slightly richer, more complex flavor than a lot of the other SE Asian varieties, imo. Same with Tong Dam.

Must get seed...must get seed...must get

[BluePalm]

That Angie looks like it will have a good fruit set!

[fruitlovers]

Gerry.....I think it is the latter and not the former.  As far as I know, mangoes need some stress before flowering.  That can come in the form of cooling or drying.  We experience both during our typical winter. 
Harry

How can you account for drying in mangos with your  high water table? Your water table goes down in winter???   
Oscar

[HMHausman]

How can you account for drying in mangos with your  high water table? Your water table goes down in winter???   
Oscar

I've never actually measured the drop, but I am confident that the water table does drop in the winter, which coincides with the dry season.  This can be observed in any of our local lakes or rock pits, where the waterline subsides substantially during this time of the year.
Harry

[fruitlovers]

How can you account for drying in mangos with your  high water table? Your water table goes down in winter???   
Oscar

I've never actually measured the drop, but I am confident that the water table does drop in the winter, which coincides with the dry season.  This can be observed in any of our local lakes or rock pits, where the waterline subsides substantially during this time of the year.
Harry

But even with a drop, isn't the water table still only a few inches below the surface? Won't the mango roots still be inside that water table?
Oscar

[HMHausman]

We're  talking feet, not inches.  I don't know how deep mango roots or lychee roots actually go.  I only know that if you did 3 or 4 feet down, you hit water.  As to how much that fluctuates during the dry vs. the wet season, this I have not doucmented but would guess it to be possibly 2 feet looking at lakes in the area.

Harry

[Sleepdoc]

We're  talking feet, not inches.  I don't know how deep mango roots or lychee roots actually go.  I only know that if you did 3 or 4 feet down, you hit water.  As to how much that fluctuates during the dry vs. the wet season, this I have not doucmented but would guess it to be possibly 2 feet looking at lakes in the area.

Harry

I agree Harry, I would estimate a two to three feet change. 

My yard is a little more "built up", but I can physically see the approximate water table with my pond.  It's basically a dugout, and I have to fill it 6-8 hours per day during the winter months with a deep well to keep a nice level ( and warmth)  for my fish.   

[fruitlovers]

We're  talking feet, not inches.  I don't know how deep mango roots or lychee roots actually go.  I only know that if you did 3 or 4 feet down, you hit water.  As to how much that fluctuates during the dry vs. the wet season, this I have not doucmented but would guess it to be possibly 2 feet looking at lakes in the area.

Harry

Is the situation different further south from where you are? I seem to recall folks during my visit telling me the water table is like 5 inches under the surface?
BTW, i;m pretty sure that mango and lychee roots go further down into soils thant 3-4 feets. I don't know but would guess more than 10 feet down. So their roots would still be in that water even during winter.
Oscar
Oscar

[HMHausman]

Is the situation different further south from where you are? I seem to recall folks during my visit telling me the water table is like 5 inches under the surface?
BTW, i;m pretty sure that mango and lychee roots go further down into soils thant 3-4 feets. I don't know but would guess more than 10 feet down. So their roots would still be in that water even during winter.
Oscar

As fas a what is going on down south of me, I really can't say....other than I grew up in Northern Dade County, which is about half way between where I live now and the Homestead growing area.  In North Dade, the water table was somewhat lower than where I am now, but it was still pretty high.  However, it was still feet and not inches.  I have always assumed that the root depths on these trees was more or less in acordance with your thoughts on the subject.  Lychees grown in South Florida almost always have brown tips on the end of each and every leaf.  Mine do not.  I attribute this to the constant hydration that I believe they get year round from the high water table.

Harry

[TropicalFruitHunters]

Interesting conversation Harry/Oscar.  This brings up a question from me then.  You've all seen the pics of our land, or what's left of it, in Thailand.  It had the little canals running up and down the entire property.  These always had water in them and was at most a foot or so down I'd say...Warren can chime in here as well. 

The jackfruits could not handle the wet feet all the time and they all died.  The mangos on the other hand, would thrive and produce lots of fruit.  They were in so much wet muck, they would just fall over in a decent wind and be fine once stood back up and secured.

Even during a dry period, I believe the water table to be high enough to where the mango roots were still reaching it.  So what kicked in a bloom here?  It certainly wasn't cold!

[HMHausman]

Jay:

I am assuming that the trees you have have adapted to the lack of traditional stress/bloom cycle. There are probably cultivars that would never flower for you under those conditions. How much temperature variation is there over there?  I guess it could be mere temperature variation that is in some way responsible, or maybe it has to do with light.  perhaps the lengthening of the daylight hours is in play there.  Not sure....just guessing.

Harry

[fruitlovers]

The jackfruits could not handle the wet feet all the time and they all died.  The mangos on the other hand, would thrive and produce lots of fruit.  They were in so much wet muck, they would just fall over in a decent wind and be fine once stood back up and secured.

Even during a dry period, I believe the water table to be high enough to where the mango roots were still reaching it.  So what kicked in a bloom here?  It certainly wasn't cold!

It's not surprising that mangos can handle flooding. I've heard they can take a few months water logged without any problem. Since they originate in monsoon area not surprising. What is surprising is that jackfruit cannot handle it, because jackfruit also originates in monsoon area of S. India. Might be due to difference in drainage of soil of area of origin? Don't know. As to what initiates flowering, as Harry mentioned in another post, the SE Asian mangos probably don't need much stress to initiate flowering, unlike Indian mangos which do. So slight dry period, or drought might be enough, or even slight differences in temperature. I think we know very little still as to what initiates flowering stages. Needs a lot more study and looking into. I know that in Thailand a lot of farmers use chemicals, like potassium nitrate and others to initiate flowering.
Oscar

[amrkhalido]

I agree with Oscar ,, regarding the potassium nitrate ,, even in egypt we do depend on the stress/bloom cycle along with the potassium nitrate ,, and we have nearly dry semi cold winter and dry hot summer

[Tropicdude]

This reminds me of something mentioned in another thread, about plant communication, maybe just maybe, mango trees can pick up on queues, from other plants in the area, or maybe humidity in the air, atmospheric pressure, etc. 

In monsoon areas, lots of rain means a lot less sunlight, that could be a "stress factor" also.