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Messages - Tom

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: If You Live In California
« on: January 12, 2018, 11:25:23 AM »
I think I saw Vintage Sweets at Costco in Montgomery the other day. If not the same it was very similar branding because Iíd never noticed it before.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Georgia Freeze
« on: January 12, 2018, 10:15:20 AM »
South Georgia and Central Alabama had a blast a week ago and another blast is already on its way again. Predicted lows are not quite as low as last week and again temps will rise above freezing each day. With young trees like those pictured ice can be very destructive by breaking lots of limbs. You gotta do what you gotta do.

I really like the idea of wrapping a little more than 36Ē of small tubing wrapped around the tree trunk carrying water to a micro mister on the top of each tree. The water temp in the tube keeps the trunk from freezing and the micro mister helps the same way as always used. The added benefit it the long tube wrapped around the tree supplying water to the mister instead of the tube just going straight to the mister. The idea is the tube carries water from the ground thatís warmer than freezing and it is discharged quickly enough to prevent freezing in the tubing while insulating the trunk too.

I saw this in south Alabama and it has worked great for the guy that figured out the longer tubing. I think he used 44Ē and it really helped. These really unusual freezing events make growing citrus very difficult but there are innovations that can help. After Satsumas get older and larger they are more cold hardy than most edible citrus.

If it was easy everybody would be doing it.


Most of the video seemed to be shot from a drone to me ! I saw lots of small replants all through the grove.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 28, 2017, 10:10:01 PM »
I think the old forum was  it is long gone but there are efforts being made to resurrect it or at least try to make the archives accessible. It was owned and operated by Laaz and he had several administrative assistants [including Millet who started this site] but he called them something else. Seems that nobodyís heard from Laaz lately.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can you overmulch citrus in San Diego?
« on: December 26, 2017, 11:27:33 PM »
The official position of master gardeners in central AL for treating problem soils that are too sandy or too much clay is the same. Mulch. as much as possible. The original question was Ďcan you mulch citrus too much in San Diegoí. I believe huge amounts of mulch all at one time could be too much as described by Millet above. Citrus does not seem to like the heavy black belt alkaline soils that run through central AL. Citrus does better in sandy more acidic soils. No doubt a sandy loam is best and hard to beat. Tom

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can you overmulch citrus in San Diego?
« on: December 18, 2017, 03:07:18 PM »
Bush2Beach, the question was Ďcan you overmulch Citrus in San Diego?í From Milletís answer I think it is possible to over mulch to the detriment of your trees. I read your comments (a rant perhaps ) several times and Iím guessing that it is your opinion that itís impossible to overmulch in San Diego. That is a statement of absolute that is not defendable by any know research. That would be like saying apples are always red , which is false by the way but might be what you believe.

The way I read your post, most of your comments are attacks and absolutes. They are also unproven as best I can see. They are your opinion but not based on any research that I am familiar with.  Perhaps you would find that a more kind and more gentle approach might be more appreciated by other people.

As far as the answer to the original question,í can you overmulch in San Diego ? Ď With no formal training I know 1 aspirin can be very good for you once a day but 7 aspirin once a week is not so good. A warning would need to be added that some people can be allergic to aspirin and they should avoid aspirin and aspirin like products.

My grands just walked in so I guess my rant has been long enough.

Millet , thank you for your answer to the mulch question.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Moro not flowering??
« on: December 14, 2017, 10:16:38 AM »
How old does the new wood needs to be before flowering?

Susan you ask a very good question that I donít know the answer to. I thought citrus bloomed on 1 or 2 year old growth.  The answer probably involves how late or early you prune in the calendar year. Iíd guess if you finished pruning in late winter there would be a flush of growth and blooms in the spring ? My 2 kumquats bloom very late in the year. Very late to me because it seems like mid summer at least until they bloom. I pruned my inground Satsumas and Meyer in late fall and a little bit in early spring and this year my fruit volume is way down. I donít know if itís the severe pruning I did to keep them under the frost cloth frame or if it might have been just an off year made worse by a late freeze.

My guess is do your severe pruning very late or very early so you donít affect the next yearís bloom and crop. Itís ok to nip a little bit here and there but the less pruning the better. In container citrus itís not a good idea to cut out a lot of the top growth without taking the same % out of the roots when the citrus is root bound.

Susan the picture of your citrus looks very good to me. Does it get to spend plenty of time outside with plenty of sunshine in the summer ?


Citrus General Discussion / Re: New Member, Central Texas
« on: December 14, 2017, 09:50:34 AM »
marant, welcome to the forum ! We are glad you found it. I think you will enjoy it for hours. You will be an excellent and valuable member. Thank you for your input. Tom

Brief recap,

Laaz paid a fee per month for the site of the old citrus forum. It was a Ďforumupí site I think. Somebody said the fee was very small. Does that mean Laaz owned the Ďrightsí to the old citrus forum ? Laaz ran , hosted or otherwise had some leadership function in a popular old citrus forum. Laaz had some health problems and lost interest in the forum.

About the same time the forum seemed to blow up. It had very intermittent service, often down for weeks and new members could not get authorized to join or post on the old forum. To me it was like a dead ship in the ocean. Millet was a very active member of the old forum so he initiated contact with the tropical plant people that allowed Millet to start a citrus leg or component here.

Laaz has made a few token appearances in print here but I havenít seen anything lately. He seems to have lost interest or maybe has other problems.

The new forum (here where you are reading) was started by Millet and it seems to be well received all over the world. Several people in this thread are interested in trying to copy or otherwise make available content they have copied or might be able to copy from the old forum. There are many members that have been on both forums.

I enjoyed the old forum and I am in favor or keeping it available for all to view !


Citrus General Discussion / Re: New Zealand Lemonade Tree
« on: November 30, 2017, 05:59:57 PM »
vanman, your containers are beautiful. Do you know the gallons of soil and how long do you think you can keep your citrus in that size container ?  Do you have other citrus in these containers ? Reminds me of what Iíve seen in Versailles ! Iíve seen containers like that for sale and they can be very pricey ! Millet and/or maybe others have similar containers sometimes on pallets to move around as necessary. Again, maybe that is Versailles, great job !!! Tom

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Anatomie of a flower ??'s
« on: November 27, 2017, 09:16:48 AM »
Thanks for the excellent explanation of incomplete flowers. I wonder if it has anything to do with the enormous number of blooms that smell so good ? I think the tremendous bloom Meyer shows and the wonderful smell is what pushed me over the edge with my addiction to trying to grow citrus !!! Tom

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Bergamot is a worth to try tree?
« on: November 25, 2017, 08:55:43 PM »
Iím taking rosuvastatin for cholesterol. Iím glad to know itís ok with grapefruit. Itís generic for Crestor and itís the smallest pill Iíve ever seen ! Tom

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lights????
« on: November 24, 2017, 07:33:21 PM »
I agree with Millet. I donít know the definition of gentle winds or violent winds and everything in betweeen but I think I know some wind is necessary for strength. I have never seen a scientific explanation of no wind vs gentle wind vs more than gentle wind. It has long been thought that a gentle breeze helps strengthen very young seedlings. I have seen seedlings that jumped up too fast and they fell over or were trying to fall over. I also believe that a sometimes crying screaming baby helps develope their lungs but anything can be taken to extremes and be counterproductive ! I must add that my father loved to tell me that average didnít mean a thing to him. He said you could have one foot in a fire and one foot in a bucket of ice but average didnít mean a thing. I always laughed, every single time ! He died 12-31-87 but I still think about him a lot. Tom

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Arctic Frost / Orange Frost Satsuma?
« on: November 17, 2017, 10:54:49 PM »
So far I agree completely but I also plan to give it more time. Cold hardness is not all Iím looking for ! Tom

Citrus General Discussion / Re: new greenhouse planning
« on: November 03, 2017, 10:32:06 PM »
That looks fantastic ! You have done a great job !

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Arctic Frost / Orange Frost Satsuma?
« on: October 24, 2017, 08:30:17 AM »
Isaac-1, is a hoop house a possibility during the worse parts of the winter ? I have a similar situation but I donít have room in my yard at home. Really I donít have permission from my boss. She rules the home and does a great job but she does not share my weakness for citrus ! You can heat and cool a temporary hoop house during the winter months for a somewhat reasonable amount of money I think. I know people that do and they love their hobby. The hoop house can get very hot on pretty days in winter. You have to be able to open doors on the ends and raise the sides too on bright sunshine days.

Citrus expert Dr. Arlie Powell told me it was possible to have about 50 Meyer lemons on a container grown mature Meyer. He was talking about 1/2 whiskey barrel and a grafted dwarf Meyer several years old. A 25 gallon container can be managed with careful planning and it would be possible to move to a protected place on short notice for brief periods of time.

Good luck !


Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Upgraded cold frames for growing trees.
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:14:29 PM »
SoCal2warm, Iím worried about it getting too hot in your cold frame. The clear plastic can get over 100íF on a bright day. Donít forget to water more than probably usual because the soil will dry out quickly. The more you can vent on hot days the better. How cold can you expect in this location at night ? Southern California is one thing but zones 8 and 10 confuses me.

Iíve had terrible luck painting plastic black. Dyeing your water black might be easier. Iím also worried about your yellow leaves. Iím afraid they are all getting ready to shed and then you will have a problem....


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lights in winter temps and humidity??
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:00:06 PM »
From what I can see your citrus looks fantastic. You might need exhaust fans to help ease your humidity. If you get blooms it will smell great inside ! I see citrus that you will need to pick this winter ! On a nice day with decent temps you might need to take everything back outside to spray horticultural oil for pest control. You seem to have a greenhouse in your home. From the pictures it looks like you know what you have been doing. What have you done in other years ? Again from what I can see it all looks awesome ! Tom

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Upgraded cold frames for growing trees.
« on: October 10, 2017, 11:02:03 PM »
Looks great. Nice job !

Suzanne42, thatís not what I get when I click on the link for that motel. Now I get quoted senior $65 pay now non refundable or pay $69 at check in and free cancellation. AARP or over 60 is quoted at $70. I think itís changing a little but I wrote down what it was quoting. Maybe my computer thinks Iím a member of this hotel chain or something. I still have not been quoted a dollar amount for those dates as high as the discounted Citrus Expo rates. It might be my error or a computer thing but they list a lower price every way you figure for what I am seeing. Tom

The link posted says $52 per night. ???

Citrus General Discussion / Re: new greenhouse planning
« on: September 24, 2017, 10:49:36 AM »
50 pineapples ! That's like the holy grail to me. How do your pineapples compare to fresh pineapple in Hawaii ? I got to go to Hawaii about 20 years ago and one of my best memories is how sweet the fresh pineapple tasted while we were there. I sent some to my closest friends by airmail, maybe over night (?). One of my friends is still talking about it. Unbelievable how much better fresh is ! I'm guessing your pineapple are better than anything you can buy in the grocery store at any time of year ? That's awesome Millet !!! Could you paste a link here if you have written about your experiences growing pineapples in your green house. Like do you grow them in your Rootmaker pots, how large, how long etc. ? Tom

Is it $52 per night if you don't tell them you're there for the citrus expo ? Web site link says $52 per night.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Favorite citrus options...
« on: August 11, 2017, 08:56:59 PM »
Chris1, somewhere I recently read that it estimated that every mature orange tree in Florida is infected with Greening Disease. You can google Citrus Greening disease and read about it here and other places for days. I don't have any experience way with it up here in central alabama. It has been found in Alabama too but has not spread to the center part of the state yet. Lots of people and many dollars are being spent in various areas of research.

What is a good citrus for me doesn't mean it will be good for you in central Florida. You are in what I think of as the heart of citrus country. If you keep listening and reading you will know the answer down there because that's where I think all the research is going on. Your local extension service would be able to suggest what to do and best varieties for your situation.

All of us here on this site love citrus but most of us see a terrible storm coming and you are unfortunately right in the middle of it right now.

Sugar Belle is a fairly new variety and from what I've heard it's highly touted for your area. I don't have any experience with it. It's much colder up here far from mouse land !

I hope this helps but you are opening a huge box of worms. Again I'd turn to your local extension people. They are charged with the responsibility of education of the public. They are an excellent resource. Use them. They are an arm of the University of Florida. The University of Florida is working diligently on this problem 24 hours a day. We are all hoping somebody can come up with some answers for Greening.

The name is even misleading. To most people green means good. This thing is not good. It's horrible.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Favorite citrus options...
« on: August 11, 2017, 01:04:17 PM »
Chris, I think your questions for citrus in Brevard county Florida need to start with how to keep your new trees from catching the devastating citrus disease called citrus greening. There are a few varieties thought to be resistant right now. Sugar Belle comes to mind but there may be others. Millet is correct about the two varieties he mentioned. With them you'd have oranges theoretically 12 months a year but you'd need to keep them in a controlled environment like a green house and greening could still get to you I'm afraid. It's not easy where you are. Greening has changed about everything where you are I'm sorry to say. Good luck ! Tom

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