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Messages - mrtexas

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1
Two nights here around 19-21F. Weather was cool last week. I was almost thinking our weather was the same as
Tampa, FL. Well we are zone 10a except for the odd 8b 19-21F night every few years. Just enough freezes to not successfully
grow mango in the ground! School was closed for two days due to ice on the streets. I could feel the ground crunching
under my feet on two days.

Not as bad as last year. Last year we had a week of 80F and then 19F for two nights. It split
the trunk of my 12 satsuma trees, first time ever since 2000.

I protected my 1st year in ground white sapote by covering with a garbage can but it still defoliated.

Due to the threat of greening I planted my carrizo rootstock trees in the ground this year. Most of the
others are on flying dragon. But FD is so slow. Might get a few good years out of the carrizo trees, who knows.
Trees on carrizo grow at least 5+x as fast as FD. In 5 years the tree is almost mature.

Apparently a good freeze like this kills psyllids almost completely, we shall see, had them last year.

I looked back 10 years and there are just a 8b few nights!

https://weatherspark.com/y/9247/Average-Weather-in-Houston-Texas-United-States-Year-Round

2
Phil, that same storm came through here (Colorado) two days ago.  We had a low of -4F.  Today it was sunny with a high of 31-F, and tomorrow should be around 55F. Sorry about your crop.  I have a Seville sour orange that has quite a few fruit on it.  Could you post once again your recipe how to make it.

I could post it but you wouldn't have the industrial pectin I use. Just get a package of grocery store
pectin and follow their recipe.  https://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/marmalade.html

3
Looks like another bad year for late season citrus fruit here near Sugar Land,TX. It is predicted
freezing temperatures for 20 hours with a low of 20F. That is bad enough to freeze late season
fruit. I guess I won't get any good seville oranges for marmalade again. Same thing last year.
Garbage can is covering a coonti. Another garbage can covers my young white sapote.

Untitled by philip sauber, on Flickr

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Green sapote sun requirements in SoCal?
« on: January 15, 2018, 12:37:54 PM »
"my plan is to boil water and put it in 5gal buckets next to the jabos
and other sensitive plants."

Don't bother boiling the water. The heat is in the water freezing at 1,000 btu/lb

Water cooling is 1btu/lb/degF. So boiling the water provides 180 btu/lb going from
212F to 32F and 1,000btu freezing.

5
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Anybody growing Tahoe Gold Mandarin.
« on: January 12, 2018, 08:19:44 PM »
I was told it is a patented tree and they don't sell budwood. You might be able to buy a tree from a vendor, licence to sell out of state.Check 2 and none have them.

They sell bud wood to California if you enter into a propagation agreement which is pretty onerous.

6
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Anybody growing Tahoe Gold Mandarin.
« on: January 12, 2018, 08:17:36 PM »
If you're outside California, it might be harder to order from CCPP.ucr.edu. I heard some Texas people had to pay $100 and then a higher amount per bud. Texas is a citrus growing state though, so they might have more restrictions in place to warrant the extra cost to certify.

In Texas we have to pay $3 a bud, $150 service fee, $35 shipping or $245 for 20 CCPP buds. That is what I paid for shiranui buds from Florida. Gave up on waiting for California shiranui. Must order thru the Texas bud wood bureau. No more orders for me at those prices. Probably next year can't get any bud wood to graft legally.

7
Citrus General Discussion / Re: A tale of two Mandarins
« on: January 04, 2018, 09:56:03 AM »
Satsuma fruit quality. High quality requires lots of fertilizer and water for heavy fruit set and small fruit:

https://mrtexascitrus.weebly.com/citrusfruitquality.html

8
No obvious freeze damage here near Houston. Got to 26F last night, the same tonight.


9
Citrus General Discussion / Re: HLB In California Backyards
« on: December 15, 2017, 05:03:56 PM »
Not a good sign with 250 backyard trees infected. There must be thousands or more as the
disease takes years to show symptoms. The commercial growers must be worried.

I have bit the bullet so far here in Texas. I had psyllids 5 years ago one spring, the winter killed them, and no greening so far. Had them last
year as well, spraying got rid of them.

10
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Found a grapefruit tree
« on: December 03, 2017, 09:02:56 PM »
Really, I thought Charleston was pretty close to the coast?

11
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Graft refusing to push
« on: November 28, 2017, 10:00:20 PM »
I did an inverted t-bud of Golden Nugget on 9-17-17.  It healed up well, so I broke the top of the tree over pretty quickly, but now it's just sitting there refusing to grow.  The rootstock has tried to send out some growth above and below the GN a couple of times, but I have broken them off before they could get going. 

The tree was in a shady area while it initially recovered, but now it is in my winter grow room.  Temps staying between 70 and 90F.  Any suggestions guys?

Force it in the spring. It won't do much in winter.

12
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Budwood in Texas
« on: November 16, 2017, 08:08:08 AM »
Not the right time of year now. Will be teaching this again in March: https://txrxlabs.org/classes/334/urban-homesteading-tree-grafting/

Bud wood from the citrus center is expensive, $3 a bud minimum 10 buds per variety and $35 for shipping.

13
Looks like Policicchio groves has closed as well! http://www.juicycitrus.com/homepage.html.
We used to buy paper grocery store bags of citrus that didn't look good enough to ship
back in the 60/70s for $1 a bag when I was a high schooler at Merritt Island HS. I can still
taste the minneolas and temples we bought that were good beyond belief! We bought the oranges
from a little old lady, must have been the founders wife. Citrus groves surrounded the store on
North Merritt Island. She was still there in the 80/90s when I vacationed there.

14
that was my next question. How close does the pollinator need to be? I'll probably plant a 30gl or maybe even a 45gl if they look significantly better.

Bigger is not better. A 3 gallon will likely outgrow a 30 gallon. You should also consider a sugar belle
as you live in Florida. It is earlier and just as good tasting as a minneola or orlando tangelo. Don't know
about pollinator for it, probably not.

15
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Specialties To Look At
« on: October 22, 2017, 10:50:50 PM »
I'm growing out a sugar belle seedling. The variety is patented.

16
They do need a pollinator. Plant a temple also. Fabulous tasting "orange" as well.
Back in the 70s when I was attending MIHS we used to buy minneolas and temples together at the
Pollicichio fruit stand on SR3 north of the barge canal. Wish I still lived there. The fruit
was memorable!
I actually live in MI off SR3 about 4 mi south of 520 on plantation rd, across from the old lychee grove. it's a little slice of paradise, that's what got me into Mangos and such. I guess im going to have to plant a temple as well, maybe in the neighbors yard, im out of space.

I remember buying lychees from that grove in the 1970s! Trees were huge then. Plant the temple and minneola in the same hole. Don't think minneola is any harder to grow than orlando. Tastes much richer as well.

17
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rhode Red Valencia orange
« on: October 21, 2017, 11:44:30 PM »
We'll, I hope it's good because I unxepectedly stumbled over one today and bought it.

It's a Record Buck tree and looks pretty good.

Midnight valencia is another good one and seedless too.

18
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 21, 2017, 11:36:07 PM »
Phil, yes your correct, Sour Orange is not as cold hardy as Flying Dragon or other trifoliates.  However, it is more cold hardy than many other rootstocks.  I see the University of Florida list Sour orange as a "G" for freezes.   "G"  stands for good.  All the trees I purchased from you were on FD, and all are doing good.  My in ground Cara Cara is on FD, and it is now 11-ft. tall and 11-ft. wide.  About 10+ years old. I don't remember exactly when it was planted.

Here 500 miles north of the citrus belt anything but trifoliate and FD are not cold hardy.
There are many, many seville orange trees growing around here because the graft got frozen
away. Lots of trees used to come from the Valley which uses sour orange exclusively. Now the local
growers switched from trifoliate to citrange. I take advantage use sevilles for marmalade as someone I know usually
has bushels of inedible seville fruit without a use.

The predominant root stock now is carrizo citrange not because it is cold hardy
but because it grows a bigger tree in one year than trifoliate. Big sells. When a tree freezes the average homeowner has
no explanation for why but it is likely the root stock not being cold tolerant.

My experience with swingle is that the tree grows 4x as fast as one on flying dragon. I've been growing trees on FD since 2000 but
would have got a lot more fruit if on swingle. Since 2000 there hasn't been any citrus killing
freezes so choice of root stock hasn't been very important. I now prefer swingle and know a guy with a large bearing swingle tree.

In this year's 19F my one tree on swingle had bark cracking damage while the one on sour orange killed the graft.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 21, 2017, 11:28:51 PM »
Never had one out of thousands killed by fungus. Cover the whole bud or not?

Yes, I did cover the whole bud with parafilm.  Should I have left a part of the bud open to the air?

-Brett

Yes cover the whole bud. Don't use parafilm. You can't wrap the bud strong enough for success. I use 6mm vinyl grafting tape.

20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 21, 2017, 09:17:44 PM »
Seville sour orange in my opinion is an excellent root stock. It is rated good for high pH, clay soil, freezes, extra good for wet soils and generally produces fairly high yields with fruit high in juices.  On the other hand I also like Flying Dragon as a root stock (kind of both sides of the spectrum).

Sour orange is much more likely to freeze in the ground than the trifoliates. It never really goes dormant.
It is much more vigorous than trifoliate or flying dragon. The only tree I had freeze in last winter's two
nights of 19F for a few hours was on sour orange. It killed the trunk back to around 6 inches. The caliper was
around 1 1/4 inches. I bark grafted the rootstock and now after less than 6 months growing the scion has
nearly overtaken the stump.

Lately however I am preferring the more vigorous rootstocks like swingle (which I can get seeds for.) With the uncertainty of greening no sense
going for a slow growing rootstock like trifoliate or flying dragon.

21
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 21, 2017, 09:11:59 PM »
Trifoliate orange ... 1.03-1.26 ... 13-73

Out of thousands and thousands of trifoliate and flying dragon seedlings I have grown out
only a handful were hybrids. I had 1 or 2 "dragon lime" like hybrids and 1 tiny dragon hybrid.
I'd put the % true to seed at 99+%.

Of  the trees I grew to maturity in the ground on flying dragon rootstock only one out of 50 were obviously
hybrid by their rapid growth rate. My page was one at my old house that grew vigorously.

22
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 21, 2017, 09:05:32 PM »
Never had one out of thousands killed by fungus. Cover the whole bud or not?

23
They do need a pollinator. Plant a temple also. Fabulous tasting "orange" as well.
Back in the 70s when I was attending MIHS we used to buy minneolas and temples together at the
Pollicichio fruit stand on SR3 north of the barge canal. Wish I still lived there. The fruit
was memorable!

24
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Smith Red Valencia
« on: October 17, 2017, 12:07:07 AM »
I've got it with the first fruit this year in a 7 gallon pot. It's now
called smith red blood.

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: October 01, 2017, 11:39:15 AM »
On average you can grow a mango tree outside in Seattle. However it is not the averages that kill a citrus or mango tree it is the extremes and the duration of freezing weather that kill semi-tropical trees. Mangos are killed by a freeze of any duration. 0F, 6F, and 11F kill citrus trees after an hour or two. Seattle has very little citrus friendly weather with cool, rainy and cloudy the most frequent occurences. Where I live in Houston has similar weather to Bradenton,FL where they grow mangoes outside unprotected. However the yearly hard freezes prevent growing mangoes in the ground unprotected.

seattle by philip sauber, on Flickr

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