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Author Topic: Learn how to graft Myrciaria/Plinia (jaboticaba) FREE instructional video  (Read 17139 times)

FlyingFoxFruits

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I've finally decided to start sharing most of what I've learned about grafting Myricaira/Plinia (which is also pertinent info for Eugenias, and other plants)....I've come to realize, holding back information that's useful to my fellow growers, is like holding myself back....If I want to excel to the next level, I need to help others around me, and learn from their questions, and from their experiences.....sometimes teaching other people something you love, is the best way to learn more about the subject you're teaching!!

My brother (who will has all the video skills, and equipment) and I, have decided to make a free instructional video soon...where I lay out most of what I know, and really try to encourage the world to start grafting Jaboticabas(and it's relatives).

so please feel free to ask questions here...I will answer them to the best of my ability.  There is not much information I'm going to hold back....the only secrets I can't share, are my sources for plant material, and my current experiments

and I will certainly post here to keep the group informed on when the video is going to be ready....(hopefully before this winter)


UPDATE:

here is the completed  video!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 06:22:07 PM by FlyingFoxFruits »
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Bush2Beach

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That's great news. Carlos (CTMIAMI ) posted some avocado grafting videos that were very help full to go for it in chopping down old productive trees and make them have good yields. Visual learning always helps a lot and the knowledge can go far and wide to help promote the species. Givin is livin so sharing will just promote your thing more.
  You can't hate on not sharing sources and secret spots. No one shares their best mushroom or ginseng hunting spots, and as soon as a locals only bicycling trail or swimming hole is shared on the web it can just be over for everyone. When your awesome hybrids that fruit bigger, faster , stronger  come to light just please  sell them and spread them far and wide for the benefit of jabotiholics everywhere. FFF to the world .

Soren

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Adam, I have been collecting for 10+ years but never been grafting! Look forward to this! Thanks
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TREESNMORE

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Plant your Jaboticaba seeds now. Start looking for old fruiting plants, for budwood. I am going to do cocktail trees. Lets not forget Eugenias what about a Pitomba ,Cherry of the Rio, Black Surinam cocktail tree.
Mike

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I would love to get my hands on that. This is the direction for me in the tropical scene.
This time of the year when everybody has mouthful of mango's and other fruits makes me more determent to get on the bandwagon, but unfortunetly have to start small.(zone 7)

huertasurbanas

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Great Adam! that's a very wise choice.

I could get budwood from old fruiting plants, some sabara, some similar to grimal and maybe many more... but the people would mail me these budwoods (from Misiones, Brasil, etc.), so I must know what kind of budwood are we talking about, cheers!


Rtreid

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Adam, that is great news!

I have not tried the Myrcarias yet, but with your advice I think I am starting to get my Eugenia grafts to take at a better rate. 

Thanks you for sharing all the knowledge you have gained and I loo forward to seeing your video.

Richard

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Can do an example on the white jabo and give us some tips on improving success rates on the white jabo?  This is the only sp. Where I have trouble.  Trunciflora, grimal, red, and paulista are taking easier than stone fruit.

FlyingFoxFruits

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Can do an example on the white jabo and give us some tips on improving success rates on the white jabo?  This is the only sp. Where I have trouble.  Trunciflora, grimal, red, and paulista are taking easier than stone fruit.

thanks everyone for showing interest...

let's get started with some tips for grafting M. aureana...

I only use Sabara rootstock for this species...(i've heard some people recommend  the Red jaboticaba, M. cauliflora hybrid, as a rootstock for white jabo, but I don't recommend this at all...the Red jabo suckers way too much)

use a simple cleft graft, and most important, the scions must be taken with woody growth (it can be very young wood, but must have started to peel, and show some woodiness)......also it's always better to take scions earlier than later (this is my experience with all myrciarias, but this holds true more for M. aureana)...so don't worry about taking a scion that has small buds forming....you probably won't notice any buds forming at all.

and I always use buddy tape (never paraflim)...for some reason buddy tape seems to be the best....I suppose because it's more breathable, and less biodegradable...but there is a downfall to using buddy tape..you must eventually unwrap everything you've grafted....which can be harder than grafting itself!

M. aureana must have shade when young, and healing from grafting, I always put them underneath the canopy of a larger jaboticaba tree, and let them heal there.

they can take a while to finally push, up to 2 months sometimes....maybe even longer....but I"ve seen them push after only about 2 weeks.


PS , if you dont have buddy tape, just try bagging your grafted plant, and don't defoliate scion..just cut leaves in half, and cut back any non-woody new growth.....then make sure to place the bagged plant in the shade...and it should have just as much success as using buddy tape.
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luc

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Great news Adam . Do you think that grafting on the hybrid could speed up fruiting of a variety that takes normally close to 10 years ?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 04:32:00 PM by luc »
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FlyingFoxFruits

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Great new Adam . Do you think that grafting on the hybrid could speed up fruiting of a variety that takes normally close to 10 years ?

Luc,

thanks!

no I don't think this would be the case at all..I really don't like to use the Red jabo as rootstock...suckers too much.

to speed up fruition, I think it's best to use really thick scions that have flowered before....

this is where grafting can get very difficult....and people get stingy with scions....imagine cutting off flowering branches of your rare Myrciaria!!

so you see, this limits the amount of mature grafted myrciarias that can be produced each year....you can run out of mature wood very quickly!!
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FlyingFoxFruits

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compatibility chart:

use M. jaboticaba (Sabara) for :

M. cauliflora
M. aureana
M. coronata
M. phitrantha
M. oblongata
M. trunciflora
M. sp (Grimal)
M. spirito-santensis (never tried but sure it works)
M. grandifolia

(i know there are other species that will work with M. jaboticaba, sorry I couldn't list them all, I have only tried so many)

Note: grafting M. cauliflora hybrid (red) seems to make the tree grow less bushy, and is more resistant to high pH, poor soil..but for some reason, I can't seem to get them to bear early....even with large scions, they still seem to take over 2yrs....so it seems smarter to just plant seeds of the most precocious varieties of Myrciaria, unless you want to create a plant with more resilience to poor soils.

some secrets:

M. glazioviana is a great rootstock for some rare species!!!  It's like a gateway to expanding your collection...so for all of those who dismissed this plant as worthless....(you done fudged up)....it's what I use to replicate M. strigipes, and M. guaquiea, years before a plant has even flowered...giving me an advantage, not having to source seeds to reproduce rare immature plants.  There are certainly other rare species that M. glazioviana could be used for...I'm guessing it would work for the real Myrciaria glomerata, and other similar species (yet to be described)

also!

M. trunciflora works as a rootstock for Plinia edulis!  but try using M. jaboticaba, and you will fail (at least I have every time)

and for some of the other species you don't see listed, I'm in the process of finding compatible rootstocks...like M. dubia, P. rivularis, M. tenella, M. floribunda, M. nana, and others....I still haven't finished my research...and it seems like M. jaboticaba is not a suitable rootstock for any of these.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 06:30:24 PM by ASaffron »
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buddyguygreen

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Ive always wanted to try and graft a M. dubia with a M. glazioviana or a M. vexator, or even all three in one, Have you tried any of these.

Also Thank you for the knowledge about this awesome species.  sounds like you working on some cool stuff, cant wait to see the outcome ;D

FlyingFoxFruits

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Ive always wanted to try and graft a M. dubia with a M. glazioviana or a M. vexator, or even all three in one, Have you tried any of these.

Also Thank you for the knowledge about this awesome species.  sounds like you working on some cool stuff, cant wait to see the outcome ;D

good question,

that is one of my experiments (I was keeping secret, but oh well... :P )...I recently realized (with the recommendation from a friend) that M. vexator could be a compatible rootstock for M. dubia....after one attempt grafting this pair, it seems to be working.

this is exciting because M. dubia really suffers in our soils in FL (hating high or even neutral pH it seems), but M. vexator is the exact opposite, it seems to thrive on any soil in FL, as long as it's fertilized and irrigated (and has drainage).

So I will let you know how this works out....I've only grafted one tree so far, but soon I will make some more.

PS...I don't think M. glazioviana is a good match for either M. vexator or M. dubia.

also, making cocktail trees is much easier said than done....it's something like citrus, where some varieties seem to outgrow others...I'm sure you can make a cocktail tree, but you must choose the varieties wisely....M. trunciflora is like a pommelo, it will take over a multi grafted tree (but I've got a cocktail tree with M. trunciflora and M. cauliflora hybrid, growing very well, I just keep the truncilfora section pruned back all the time)
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buddyguygreen

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cool stuff man. maybe the M.vexator will put a little sweetness in the M. dubia also.

 It sounds like you can expand pretty hard on this. Just curious in your knowledge what can you graft with the M. vexator and then if you graft the 2 M. dubia and M.vexator would you still be able to graft like a regular M vexator, Ever tried any experiments like that with other myrciaria or plinia species.

also that would be awesome to have a Florida strain of Camu Camu ;D

FlyingFoxFruits

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cool stuff man. maybe the M.vexator will put a little sweetness in the M. dubia also.

 It sounds like you can expand pretty hard on this. Just curious in your knowledge what can you graft with the M. vexator and then if you graft the 2 M. dubia and M.vexator would you still be able to graft like a regular M vexator, Ever tried any experiments like that with other myrciaria or plinia species.

also that would be awesome to have a Florida strain of Camu Camu ;D

you mean like an interstock?  where you use a species that's compatible with with your scion to bridge the gap, between a rootstock that's non-compatible with your scion?

i've used M. truncifora to bridge the gap between Plinia edulis and M. jaboticaba.

This is another cool trick....I've only done it once, but need to try again....I think doing this might seriously slow down the growth of Plinia edulis...but have not yet confirmed this....(my Plinia edulis grafted onto M. trunciflora grows slow as heck...but this could be due to other variables than the rootstock)
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luc

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Adam , did you ever try airlayering on Myrciaria ?
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FlyingFoxFruits

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Adam , did you ever try airlayering on Myrciaria ?

yes....I didn't ever have much success (I tried M. trunciflora, Plinia edulis, M.jaboticaba, and M.cauliflora hybrid Red)...they would sometimes form nodules where you could see white root cells forming, but this took over 5 months...and by the time roots started to form, something would invariably mess with the marcots....whether it was ants, or birds, or squirrels...something always seemed to mess them up before they would root.

i've seen a man who airlayered jaboticabas in Brazil..(on a video)...and he used Terra vermelha (red earth, looked like clay/mud), and mixed it with some water....into a mud like paste...then he dipped sheets of cotton (looked like a mass of cotton bolls) into the mud....and used this as his medium....and wrapped them with plastic....

i think this is the trick to having successful airlayers...that....or some crazy ass chemicals...(I don't know much about rooting hormones, but i"m sure there are some that will do the trick....I used whatever is readily avaialble in liquid form...I forget the name, but the hormone I used probably wasn't the best....but honestly you don't need hormone at all)
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xshen

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Wow!  Now I can use trunciflora as a intergraft to add on plinia edulis.  What other plinia sp are compatible with trunciflora?

Many thanks for sharing!   ;D

FlyingFoxFruits

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Wow!  Now I can use trunciflora as a intergraft to add on plinia edulis.  What other plinia sp are compatible with trunciflora?

Many thanks for sharing!   ;D

that's the kind of excitement I like to see!

(but remember, if you have a cocktail tree your Plinia edulis might grow slow as molasses, and never fruit!  I just dont know how it will work over the long haul...I'm assuming it could fruit, but will have reduced productivity, and will take a long time to fruit from grafting.....this could all be totally wrong though...I'm just guessing)

I suspect M. trunciflora could work with P. rivularis, but have yet to try this out...

I tried P. rivularis onto M. vexator but failed (I think I need to try this again, I only tried once)

I know M. truncilfora is probably compatible with most of the species on my list of compatibility for M. jaboticaba (Sabara)..there could be some advantages for using M. trunciflora as a rootstock, but generally speaking, in FL, it's very hard to keep this species happy unless you have good acid soil, and well water that's neutral/or acid...city water or high pH destroys M. trunciflora....so this is why I've never really employed it as a rootstock.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 07:10:45 PM by ASaffron »
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buddyguygreen

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INTERSTOCK thats the word, alright that sounds like fun. Im excited to see what outcomes are possible. I'll help you out, Im gonna start to get into grafting all my myrciaria and plinia species and i'll let you know the results. Get these species capabilities perfected ;D

Raulglezruiz

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Hi Adam, for Eugenia Uniflora would you also use mature woody wood or tender wood from the tip of the branch? Also is better to do cleft or bark grafting?
El verde es vida!

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Hi Adam, for Eugenia Uniflora would you also use mature woody wood or tender wood from the tip of the branch? Also is better to do cleft or bark grafting?

Raul,

I have very high success rate using scions about the size of a chopstick, or a bit smaller.

always use a cleft or modified cleft, and don't defoliate scions, cut leaves in half, and cut back any green wood at tips of scion....bag the plant and place in the shade....should be ready to poke holes in the bag after about 2month...gradually remove the bag over the course of 4-10 days.
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Raulglezruiz

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ThanksAdam!
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FlyingFoxFruits

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just finished filming the intro....(I think it will make a few people laugh)

hopefully not much longer before the short video is complete.

I will post an update when we start editing.

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