Mango fruit pest - how to treat it?

[Pancrazio]

My mango fruit have started to show some kind of damage from a unknown, to me, pest.
I'd like to get help on identifing and eradicating it.

[simon_grow]

Looks like sap damage to me. Sometime plant sap sucking bugs cause a puncture in the fruit or stem which causes sap to leak out damaging other parts of the plant including the fruit. Other times, natural fruit drop cause sap to drip from the joint where the mango fell off.

Simon

[bsbullie]

Looks to be a fungal or bacterial damage...not good no matter how you look at it.

[Pancrazio]

Thank you guys.
Yeah, it's nasty and i don't know how to deal with it. Funny thing is, the plant never got any rain on it since last october, so i hoped to have it pretty protected by any fungus/bacteria... but this doesn't seem the case.
The fruits once cutted show small galleries, but i haven't been able to locate any worm. So i can't telle for sure if they are a insect or a collapse of sap canals.
Should i try copper  -> insecticide (i'm assuming confidor? because it's systemic) then to bag the fruit? Could this help?
What i should use to bag the fruits? Small papaper bags can work?

[simon_grow]

Hey Pancrazio, I was basing my diagnosis off of the second picture were you can clearly see a mango fruit with sap damage on it and the area right above the sap damage is the end of the stem where a mango looks like it previously dropped off and appears to be the source of the sap.

Your soil appears to be relatively dry and I don't see any evidence of bioburden. Bacterial Black Spot usually will have multiple black dots around the whole fruit and I don't see signs of Anthracnose on your leaves. Anthracnose can look similar to the damage you have on your fruit but usually darker and I would be surprised to see it in your recent dry weather. There are many different diseases that affect mango and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the more obscure diseases is affecting your fruit because you are growing in an area that is not known for growing mangos. If you happen to notice fruit has dropped, it would be a good idea to wipe up any sap from terminals were a mango fell off and also from any sap you see on the fruit as the sap will burn your fruit and cause a hole were disease will likely make its entry.

Simon

[Pancrazio]

Thank you for your more in dept view on the matter.
The fruit appear to have some entry holes where appear to be something affection the fruit, but i can't tell if its a mold, a insect or something else. Just the pucture is very small. In some cases like the one you see, you can see some sap oozing out of it, but i don't think the sap itself is doing damage.
Also i'm willing to exclude fruit flies too because it's to early here for them.
I hoped to have gottern some kind of common mango disease, but this doesn't seems the case. So i guess i sould try to treat for generic disease and see what happens...

[simon_grow]

See page 98 for pics of typical pre harvest damage from Anthracnose. Anthracnose is a fungal disease that spreads from spores which means it should show a random scattered pattern with the caveat of gravity and wind. I also just spotted what appears to be a wet dot on the first picture and directly above that appears to be another stem where a mango appears to have fallen off in the past.

You will be surprised how much damage sap can cause, it can literally burn a hole in the fruit. sucking insects generally suck the veins and shoots of vegetative parts of the plants. If it were insect damage, it would likely be some sort of borer but you would either find a tunnel or actual caterpillar in the fruit if you open it up so I doubt it is a bored. As you stated, fruit flies would not affect fruit this young.

This article has great information.

http://www.nt.gov.au/d/Content/File/p/Fruit/Mango_Field_Guide.pdf

Simon

[bsbullie]

Again, that does not look like sap damage.

Onr problem is this isdue is in Italy,  not in a normal mango growing region so the damage may not be something easily determined based on what may be common to Florida or California.

I will post pictures tomorrow of definite black spot on mango.  It is not necessarily just black dots but a common symptom is a rotted area with a distinct star type opening.

I will still lean towads the damage above being either fungal or bacterial in nature and not caused by pest (but I may be wrong).  It does not appear to be any of the common anthracnose damage seen here.

[TonyinCC]

I had very similar damage to several species of fruit in the Southeastern US.  The specific pest causing the problem in my location in South Carolina was a stone fruit pest,a weevil called plum curculio. Is this pest in Europe , or from Europe originally, or maybe you have a similar species?  I grew plums and peaches as well, and the damage on your mangos looks a lot like what happens to peaches or plums.It also attacked apples. The insect would cut a small semi-circular slit in the fruit to lay an egg and once hatched the larva would burrow and cause some damage but was unable to complete its life cycle in the wrong fruit species. This would explain what you see when you cut a fruit open.If plum curculio attacks the wrong species,the larva can travel and damage about an inch into the fruit before it dies and then the fruit tries to heal over. It also would attack pears but they were less susceptible to damage than apples. Stone fruits were completely ruined,but apples were mostly usable for home use when affected areas were cut out but too damaged for sale. I suspect your problem is an insect pest attacking the wrong species of fruit in a similar manner. With any fruit, once the skin is damaged,secondary fungal infections can ruin the fruit. In my case, if I sprayed with the proper insecticide at the time the damage first appeared, scars healed over and fruit was fine. Imidan was the best and safest insecticide for Plum Curculio if that is what caused the damage. Various species of stinkbugs can damage many species of fruit by sucking on them,but the fruit is usually just deformed and still usable for home use if it doesn't rot from secondary fungus infections.

[Pancrazio]

Again, that does not look like sap damage.

Onr problem is this isdue is in Italy,  not in a normal mango growing region so the damage may not be something easily determined based on what may be common to Florida or California.

This is indeed true; also i have another layer of complexity to add since my mango is grown very close to a vegetable garden, so there is a quite ample number of species wich may be host of pest pretty close to the plant, and this can add further problems.

I will still lean towads the damage above being either fungal or bacterial in nature and not caused by pest (but I may be wrong).  It does not appear to be any of the common anthracnose damage seen here.

It's not similar to antrachnose indeed. What it misses is the complete blackening of the skin; also the climate now here is pretty dry and in my understanding this is detrimental to atranchnose. This of course doesn't exclude some other sort of fungal infection.

I was thinking to use some kind of wide sprectrum fungicide. What do you think about methyl thiophanate? Is well tolerated by mangoes?

I had very similar damage to several species of fruit in the Southeastern US.  The specific pest causing the problem in my location in South Carolina was a stone fruit pest,a weevil called plum curculio. Is this pest in Europe , or from Europe originally, or maybe you have a similar species?  I grew plums and peaches as well, and the damage on your mangos looks a lot like what happens to peaches or plums.It also attacked apples. The insect would cut a small semi-circular slit in the fruit to lay an egg and once hatched the larva would burrow and cause some damage but was unable to complete its life cycle in the wrong fruit species. This would explain what you see when you cut a fruit open.If plum curculio attacks the wrong species,the larva can travel and damage about an inch into the fruit before it dies and then the fruit tries to heal over. It also would attack pears but they were less susceptible to damage than apples. Stone fruits were completely ruined,but apples were mostly usable for home use when affected areas were cut out but too damaged for sale. I suspect your problem is an insect pest attacking the wrong species of fruit in a similar manner. With any fruit, once the skin is damaged,secondary fungal infections can ruin the fruit. In my case, if I sprayed with the proper insecticide at the time the damage first appeared, scars healed over and fruit was fine. Imidan was the best and safest insecticide for Plum Curculio if that is what caused the damage. Various species of stinkbugs can damage many species of fruit by sucking on them,but the fruit is usually just deformed and still usable for home use if it doesn't rot from secondary fungus infections.

I think that for now will try both the approaches, just because it is my first crop and i want at least some fruit.
Firstly i'll try with some funghicide, later i'll go with some insecticide, then we will see.

[jbaqai]

https://www.facebook.com/phxaz.trees/posts/634480640036532:0

Take a look at that , seems similar to your issue

But the above reference is from AZ , where the heat could be too much

Could it possible , that after cooler temp , you got the heat wave and plant didn't have right protection

Otherthan it I don't have anything else to contribute

Sorry

[Pancrazio]

This looks indeed remarkably similar. Also, we passed in a week from a maximum daily temps of 22C to 32C.  Also, now that i think about it, alla the damage is towards the external part of the canopy. This doesn't exclude insect damage (external ftruits are more accessibile) but makes heat another suspect.

[bsbullie]

Plum Curculio is native to North America,  which doesnt mean it couldn't wind uo in other areas but I have never heard of it doing so.  I have also not seen any publishings of it having any effect on mango.  The damage does not look thst similar either.

How big are the damaged mangoes in that picture?  When you cut a damaged mango open, is there any evidence of insects in the damaged areas?

[bsbullie]

32 Celcius is common temps in Florida and other mango growing regions.  I have trouble believing that is the issue (doesn't really look like burn damage).  If the sun's heat were the culprit, I would also expect there to be leaf burn damage.

[jbaqai]

if the root cause is unknown, then if i were you i would do the following

1) Seaweed(or kelp) with fish fertilizer liquid mix with Epsom salt , mix the solution and feed it every 2 weeks , pls note the N value on the fertilizer, it should be balance with respect to P & K, you can also foliar feed
2) Neem oil + soap (i use  Dr Bronner’s “Sal-Suds” brand soap) + liquid copper
3) Citrus Nutritional spray , use it once or twice per year,  i use the one from home-depot, but not sure if it is available at your area
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Ag-1-pt-Citrus-Nutritional-Spray-100048939/100599817

the above will take care of if its fungus, pest or some nutritional issues.

[simon_grow]

All great information, that is what I love about this forum. Bsbullie is very experienced and knows a lot about mango culture.

I was implying there is the possibility that sap damage caused an opening where by disease may have made its way in and spread. I've had sap damage literally burn holes into my fruit and it appears to start as sap drips from the axis where an aborted fruit fell off. These are my observations from growing mango in SoCal.

Simon

[Pancrazio]

How big are the damaged mangoes in that picture?  When you cut a damaged mango open, is there any evidence of insects in the damaged areas?

The mangoes in picture are around 2-3 inches long.
I haven't been able to cut one open today, i hope maybe tomorrow. There wasn't any sign of insect presence in the one i did cut but the damage could have indeed been insect damage; i noticed some kind of spongy black tissue, like there were some galleries, but no larvae inside. Not that this excluded anything; also the fungus as previously mentioned could be the result of insect activities, because some insect have fungus hosts.

32 Celcius is common temps in Florida and other mango growing regions.  I have trouble believing that is the issue (doesn't really look like burn damage).  If the sun's heat were the culprit, I would also expect there to be leaf burn damage.

I agree with you; 32C isn't enough to damage a mango in normal cases. What doesn't make turn completely my nose to the idea is the fact that we come from a REALLY cold and wet spring with no warm episodes whatsoever (20C max temp, 12-15°C temps min), and i removed the cover of my mango (wich works also as UV screen) just at the beginning of the warm spell (4 days ago). But i agree with you i probably should see at least some degree of leaf burn if the heat was such an issue. There may be the case when the fruit that (make sense) have a worse heat dispersal mechanism than leaves, may be damaged while the leaves say just fine?

As for now i attempted a spray with methyl thiophanate, it's a wide spectrum fungicide, systemic, should at least give some kind of protection. I'm avoiding copper for now because i'm worried about the fact that in high heat it could result as phytotoxic.

Will try with confidor if i don't get any changing from todays spray.

Too bad i hurt badly my knee in last days and i can't give the plant alla the care i'd like. 

[Pancrazio]

Hey guys,
just to let you know that the disease looks to have stopped its spreading, just after 1 methyl thiophanate spray.
A this point, either it  was some kind of fungus, or the sudden exposure of young fruits to the heat during the last heat wave. Pests are to exclude, apparently.

[Guanabanus]

Also consider deficiencies of Boron and Calcium.

[Pancrazio]

Thank you. I'll take this suggestion in great regard, because my bananas has started to show some strange growth that i consider a sign of boron deficiency, so it may be that my soil is boron deficient, an eventuality i never considered before.