Are M glazioviana and M. glomerata the same plant?

[Rtreid]

I was compiling a list of known Myrciaria/Plinia species in anticipation of a little project I was starting and I have run across an issue with the "cabudella" or yellow jaboticaba.  The plants I purchased from Bryan Brunner were purchased as P. glomerata while numerous other sources have the plants/seeds as M. glazioviana. Other sources list the names as synonyms.  The problem is that the Kew Gardens database (theplantlist.org) should be a trustworthy source and they list the two as separate species.   While I  know that there are errors in the aforementioned database I do not know about this particular case.

So there  are three possibilities for  the yellow jaboticaba plants that are currently in distribution;
1) The two names are synonyms and they are all the same species. 
2) There are  two species  in nature but only one in the trade. If so are they M. glazioviana or M glomerata?
3) There two different there species being sold.

Any ideas on which is the case?


Thanks,
Richard

[FlyingFoxFruits]

no those designate other species...and they are not the same.

i have yet to see a true description of M. glomerata, or Eugenia tomentosa...

these are two common mislabels you will see on almost all cabeluda in FL. and rest of USA....almost nobody recognizes the true name...M glazioviana.

Find me a true eugenia tomentosa, or M glomerata... good luck!

[Mike T]

For years all the yellows in Australia have been sold as glomerata.That in itself would strongly suggest that they are all glazioviana and glomerata is a fake species if jab. history is any giude.Like the other jabs the names are locked in place and etched in to the jaboticaba psyche and it would take a jaboticaba glaznost to unscramble the egg and put it back in the shell.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Well I hate to keep repeating myself, but this is the same case as the M. cauliflora...and M. jaboticaba.


we have just only recently had some important manuscripts translated from Portuguese to english

that's how we are figuring out the difference.

so yes my friends,

ALMOST ALL M. GLOMERATA are MISLABELED...the are really M. glazioviana

For years all the yellows in Australia have been sold as glomerata.That in itself would strongly suggest that they are all glazioviana and glomerata is a fake species if jab. history is any giude.Like the other jabs the names are locked in place and etched in to the jaboticaba psyche and it would take a jaboticaba glaznost to unscramble the egg and put it back in the shell.

[fruitlovers]

Hi Adam, what happened is that most nurseries in USA for many years were confused about correct scientific name of the cabelluda (aka yellow jaboticaba). For a long time they were labeled as Eugenia tomentosa. Then it was discovered that this was incorrect and name was switched to Myrciaria glomerata. Once the Lorenzi books came out it was again discovered that glomerata is an incorrect name. The correct name of cabelluda is M. glazioviana. Eugenia tomentosa was shown by Lorenzi to refer to a completely different plant, see vol. 2 Brazilian Trees. I don't see reference by Lorenzi in his books to the correct M. glomerata. Unfortunately some nurseries, like the one you mention, and also Frankie's Nursery here, haven't caught on yet. Or if they have they haven't changed the name on their websites yet.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

thanks for reinforcing my statements,

Ever since I bought Brazliian fruits from you a few years ago (3 now it seems)

I've been slowly changing the masses mind frame.

You've been most helpful...initially contacting some growers in Brazil, and helping me pinpoint some Myrciaria/plinia  ID's.


I'd like to grow the two other species E. tomentosa, and M. glomerata...I wonder how the fruit quality is, and the appearance of the trees?

[fruitlovers]

thanks for reinforcing my statements,

Ever since I bought Brazliian fruits from you a few years ago (3 now it seems)

I've been slowly changing the masses mind frame.

You've been most helpful...initially contacting some growers in Brazil, and helping me pinpoint some Myrciaria/plinia  ID's.


I'd like to grow the two other species E. tomentosa, and M. glomerata...I wonder how the fruit quality is, and the appearance of the trees?

OK, you're going to have to break down and some day buy, beg, borrow, or steal the Lorenzi- Brazilian Trees, 3 volume set. I think vol. 3 would be especially interesting to you as in that one he has all the super rare myrciarias and lots of others plants not included in Brazilian Fruits book. The Eugenia tomentosa is in Vol. 2, The fruits are very tiny and only eaten by birds. So not missing much there.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Oscar,

I've read the book and was amazed at all of the species I never heard of...so I made a list of ones im going to collect!!  so thankfully i don't have to buy the book as of yet!

I've got lots of friends because I care so much and share so much fruit!!!

[fruitlovers]

Oscar,

I've read the book and was amazed at all of the species I never heard of...so I made a list of ones im going to collect!!  so thankfully i don't have to buy the book as of yet!

I've got lots of friends because I care so much and share so much fruit!!!

OK, but you will definitely have to get these books sooner or later, probably sooner i predict!  They're great books. My only beef is that there is no main index for all 3 books, all 3 are independent, and you have to flip through all 3 to find something.

[Rtreid]

Thanks everyone for the information.  I would have guessed that they are all  the same plant being sold under multiple names, based on photos that I have seen. But without seeing the actual plants there is no way to be sure of the truth.


Oscar, I need to look into these books by Lorenzi.  I have his book on Brazilian fruits (or more precisely fruits grown in Brazil), and frankly was a bit disappointed  by the fact that a large percentage of the plants described were introduced species.  Don't misunderstand, it is a great reference but I was hoping that it would cover only the native plants.
Richard

[fruitlovers]

Thanks everyone for the information.  I would have guessed that they are all  the same plant being sold under multiple names, based on photos that I have seen. But without seeing the actual plants there is no way to be sure of the truth.


Oscar, I need to look into these books by Lorenzi.  I have his book on Brazilian fruits (or more precisely fruits grown in Brazil), and frankly was a bit disappointed  by the fact that a large percentage of the plants described were introduced species.  Don't misunderstand, it is a great reference but I was hoping that it would cover only the native plants.
Richard

Richard, the name of the book says it all: Brazilian Fruits and Cultivated Exotics. The first part of the book, the first 314 pages, is all about Brazilian fruits only. The next part, pages 315 to 640, is about cultivated exotics, meaning introduced fruits to Brazil. So you have 314 pages of Brazilian Fruits and 226 pages on introduced fruits to Brazil. I think this book was mosly intentioned for Brazilian audiences, not for American audiences only. We are just lucky that Lorenzi is one of the few Brazilian authors that bothered to translate his book. People in Brazil are very interested in all fruits, not just Brazilian fruits. In his other work, the book Brazilian Trees, only indigenous Brazilian tree are treated. This is an encyclopedic work in 3 volumes. But it covers ALL trees, not just fruits. So you have in addition to fruiting trees also flowering trees, lumber trees, etc.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

it's been a while since I touched on this subject, and I've learned a lot since my last post.

the true M. glomerata looks much like M. glazioviana...I could see how it would be misidentified.

but...the true M. glomerata is extremely rare...and the fruits have red skin (almost like a miracle fruit), and are fuzzy when immature, but lose most of the pubescence when the fruit is ripe.  The pulp is an amber/yellow/orange color, and the fruit is very sweet without any acidity (so I've heard).  The size of the fruit is not large, just slightly smaller than the size of M. glazioviana...but the seeds seem smaller than M. glazioviana.  The skin is also thinner compared to glazioviana.

another great feature about this group of myrciarias...(glazioviana, strigipes, guaquiea, and glomerata) is that they are precocious compared to Sabara...M. glomerata fruits from seed in about 3yrs.

I'm quite certain that nobody else has grown this plant in the USA before...so it will be a real honor to help introduce this species (with the help of a few friends  ).  I planted seeds not too long ago, and it looks like the germination rate will be very high.  Although it's not ever going to be a major commercial crop, I think rare species like this are important to collect and preserve!

[marklee]

Is there anything I can graft M. glaziovana onto, anyone attempted it?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Is there anything I can graft M. glaziovana onto, anyone attempted it?

one time i put red jabo onto yellow jabo rootstock.

it pushed out, and then died a few months later.

the only species I can imagine would be strigipes, guaquiea, or glomerata...but they are so rare there would be no sense in using them as a rootstock.

better off trying to root cuttings, or airlayering.

[marklee]

Is there anything I can graft M. glaziovana onto, anyone attempted it?

one time i put red jabo onto yellow jabo rootstock.

it pushed out, and then died a few months later.

the only species I can imagine would be strigipes, guaquiea, or glomerata...but they are so rare there would be no sense in using them as a rootstock.

Thanks Adam, one day the Glomerata will be here in California.


better off trying to root cuttings, or airlayering.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Mark,

if you requested a glomerata, now is the time to send me an email for one!

I need to sell them asap...have very few left

[FlyingFoxFruits]

the Myrciaria glomeratas have been struggling, but have survived some really harsh treatment.

I've been selling them to customers who come to pick them up, but they are not quite strong enough to ship.

Don't worry for those who want this species, but can't come pick them up...I'm saving a batch of them until later this year when they are healthy and strong enough to ship.

here are some pics to show how they look...pretty pathetic...but they will bounce back with some TLC, and chelated Fe (and fertilizer)

of all the seedlings I have, there were two that I'm keeping that are the strongest.

you can see them compared to the less fortunate seedlings I need to revive this year for spring!

one of the largest plants I'm keeping, still doesn't look too happy

same plant as above next to some of the other smaller ones

another one of the larger plants I kept...and some sad looking seedlings, ready to rebound


I will post pictures as they rebound!

new growth should start to emerge soon...and the yellow leaves will be a thing of the past...

[FlyingFoxFruits]

hey party people, i got one of these for sale almost ready to fruit, I think close to 4y by now.

check out the link!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-Myrciaria-glomerata-NOT-glazioviana-makes-RED-FRUIT-jaboticaba-tree/192709680322?hash=item2cde645cc2:g:avoAAOSwxxVb24Oi:rk:1:pf:0

[huertasurbanas]

"but they will bounce back with some TLC, and chelated Fe (and fertilizer)" so you did it!

what is TLC?

what fertilizer in that situation?

[Stevo]

"but they will bounce back with some TLC, and chelated Fe (and fertilizer)" so you did it!

what is TLC?

what fertilizer in that situation?

TLC is   tender loving care