Mulching for New Orchard - Good or Bad?

[FruitFreak]

Yes. But foliar calcium probably won't do it. I've read in multiple locations that foliar calcium doesn't help to mitigate internal breakdown in mangoes. And for iron, just cheap old iron sulfate will probably work fine on that soil.

I think even the worms will want some nitrogen. You could perhaps just get some cheap N-fertilizer from a local fertilizer manufacturer. Given the amount you'd need to cover that much acreage, you'd want to do it on the cheap.

I don't think you'll need to feed the trees via foliar means given the pH of the soil. Just drop some high quality slow release fertilizer around the rootzone of the trees.

You'll eventually want to spray a fungicide though -- though probably not more than a couple of times per year given your proximity to the coast.

Are you talking about just broadcasting the cheap soluble and hitting the trees with high quality slow release?  I figure on mixing minors in with insecticide/fungicide during regular misting.  That may be a good way to accationally provide essential calcium or iron?

It does make sense that slow release calcium and iron would be more effective around the tree bases.  Wondering what OMRI product would be sufficient?

[zands]

That 12 inches of mulch will decompose down to about 1 - 3 inches depending on the composition (woody vs leafy). Raising elevation with mulch is harder than you think due to the decomp and compaction ratio.

That means I'll basically be able just to stick the trees in the ground. That is good.

I would not even mulch the entire lot anymore. Just dump a nice big pile tree trimmers mulch where each tree will be planted
If you cannot be sure right now where each tree will planted....... In this situation I would just dump mulch down the rows where the fruit trees will be planted.

Will these rows be 15 feet apart? 20 feet apart? So windrows of mulch 15 or 20 ft apart.
Then when planting trees I would be sitting on my arse and parting the mulch with my hands and with a hoe or rake
Get a good dust mask at Amazon you don't want spores in your lungs

IOW place the mulch where the trees are or will be or at least in the rows they will be.
The Rest of your lot will grow weeds....who cares. Keep mowing weeds down and this will kind of build fertility there. A good diameter of mulch for each tree for you since you have so much mulch is 7ft by 6inches deep.
I would mix in one bag of Home Depot black topsoil in each planting hole. Or the equivalent if you can buy black topsoil in bulk

My fruit trees have a diameter of tree trimmers mulch of 4ft and my mango trees do OK.     I cannot mulch to a 7ft diameter where I am. My HOA would go ballistic.

ZZZ

[Cookie Monster]

You could try it, but I've read that foliar application is less effective. It could be less mobile within the plant (just hazarding a guess). I don't have any personal experience though. You might be gung-ho about firing up the sprayer, but trust me, you'll seed out a lazier / less labor intensive way to do things after a while :-).

Here's a study conducted on soil that appears very similar to yours: http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/1962-vol-75/364-371%20(YOUNG).pdf Keep in mind that there will be a limit to how much Ca the soil can absorb / retain based on that low CEC. So, you probably don't want to put down gypsum at the rate described in the aforementioned study. You can actually calculate how much you need based on the recommendation from your soil test. Gypsum is about 22% Ca. There are online calculators, and Spectrum provides some equations in their online library.

The calcium doesn't need to be slow release. I wouldn't worry about trying to find an OMRI listed source of nutrients. The only difference between organic and conventional is the source. Gypsum can be NOP-approved just because it comes from an "acceptable" source, not because it has a different chemical composition or efficacy. Think of rainforest certified coffee vs non-certified coffee. The only difference is that the former is more friendly to the environment. Same idea with NOP approved mineral sources.

It does make sense that slow release calcium and iron would be more effective around the tree bases.  Wondering what OMRI product would be sufficient?

[Cookie Monster]

The mango roots will overlap in a few years, meaning that they will benefit from the entire lot being mulched. Since he's getting the mulch for free and time is on his side, best to just do the entire thing. Mango feeder roots live in the top few inches of soil, so sprucing up the top layer of soil is to his advantage.

That 12 inches of mulch will decompose down to about 1 - 3 inches depending on the composition (woody vs leafy). Raising elevation with mulch is harder than you think due to the decomp and compaction ratio.

That means I'll basically be able just to stick the trees in the ground. That is good.

I would not even mulch the entire lot anymore. Just dump a nice big pile tree trimmers mulch where each tree will be planted
If you cannot be sure right now where this will be>>>

Then I would just dump mulch down the rows where the fruit trees will be planted. Will these rows be 15 feet apart? 20 feet apart? Windrows of mulch 15 or 20 ft apart.
Then when planting trees I would be sitting on my arse and parting the mulch with my hands and with a hoe or rake
Get a good dust mask at Amazon you don't want spores in your lungs

IOW place the mulch where the trees are. The Rest of your lot will grow weeds....who cares. Keep mowing them down and this will kind of build fertility there

ZZZ

[Cookie Monster]

I just realized that Spectrum is recommending broadcasting 1262 pounds of dolomitic limestone per acre for your orchard. Not sure how far that would up the pH. But I think mango does enjoy a slightly higher pH.

[Chupa King]

Aloha. I am currently starting my soil building process. I will be planting quite a large orchard.

I highly suggest planting nitrogen fixing plants until they are phased out by your mature trees. Gliricidia and perennial peanut are a great start. We will also be using a lot of the space for annual and biannual crops for the time being.

Continue to build soil, the fungi will do the hard work for you.

[Cookie Monster]

I think the plan of OP is to get organic matter into the soil as quickly as possible.

Perennial peanut has a couple of drawbacks per my experience:

 - It consumes a lot of water and quickly dries out sandy soil.
 - Would take a long time to contribute to the organic matter content / CEC of the soil.
 - Mangoes are fine without nitrogen. They need K, Ca, and minors.

[Mark in Texas]

Aloha. I am currently starting my soil building process. I will be planting quite a large orchard.

I highly suggest planting nitrogen fixing plants until they are phased out by your mature trees. Gliricidia and perennial peanut are a great start. We will also be using a lot of the space for annual and biannual crops for the time being.

Continue to build soil, the fungi will do the hard work for you.

If you got the time, years, then green manure crops is the way to go.  Planted them (sweet clover, hairy vetch, elbon rye) for 3 years straight.  One of the biggest humus producers is elbon rye but a call or website search to the U. of Hawaii at Hilo is your best bet.  Annual rye too but it can get invasive.

[Chupa King]

Exactly, I will have the time to properly build my soil for my next orchard so I can have an overall more productive food forest. This is going to be our expansion. I hope to one day expand somewhere with a slightly different microclimate. One of our main green crops will be Sun Hemp. It's amazing.

This is just my opinion. I would rather see a happy farmer\homesteader with a happy, healthy forest.

[FruitFreak]

I would not even mulch the entire lot anymore. Just dump a nice big pile tree trimmers mulch where each tree will be planted
If you cannot be sure right now where each tree will planted....... In this situation I would just dump mulch down the rows where the fruit trees will be planted.

Will these rows be 15 feet apart? 20 feet apart? So windrows of mulch 15 or 20 ft apart.
Then when planting trees I would be sitting on my arse and parting the mulch with my hands and with a hoe or rake
Get a good dust mask at Amazon you don't want spores in your lungs

IOW place the mulch where the trees are or will be or at least in the rows they will be.
The Rest of your lot will grow weeds....who cares. Keep mowing weeds down and this will kind of build fertility there. A good diameter of mulch for each tree for you since you have so much mulch is 7ft by 6inches deep.
I would mix in one bag of Home Depot black topsoil in each planting hole. Or the equivalent if you can buy black topsoil in bulk

My fruit trees have a diameter of tree trimmers mulch of 4ft and my mango trees do OK.     I cannot mulch to a 7ft diameter where I am. My HOA would go ballistic.

ZZZ

What's up Zands.  The orchard is not laid out yet and mulch is needed for the trucks to be able to drive over the sand so at this time we have to dump and spread mulch over the entire area after which rows can be established and more organized dumping can be occur.  Row/tree spacing will be 23' x 17'.

I do not have a tractor yet so weed suppression is very important for the time being.

[FruitFreak]

I just realized that Spectrum is recommending broadcasting 1262 pounds of dolomitic limestone per acre for your orchard. Not sure how far that would up the pH. But I think mango does enjoy a slightly higher pH.

Yeah I saw that too and the native soil could certainly benefit from the added CA MG and pH up.  I'm going to contact Winfield about a bulk order. Do you think it can be applied on top of the mulch?

[FruitFreak]

Aloha. I am currently starting my soil building process. I will be planting quite a large orchard.

I highly suggest planting nitrogen fixing plants until they are phased out by your mature trees. Gliricidia and perennial peanut are a great start. We will also be using a lot of the space for annual and biannual crops for the time being.

Continue to build soil, the fungi will do the hard work for you.

If you got the time, years, then green manure crops is the way to go.  Planted them (sweet clover, hairy vetch, elbon rye) for 3 years straight.  One of the biggest humus producers is elbon rye but a call or website search to the U. of Hawaii at Hilo is your best bet.  Annual rye too but it can get invasive.

I bet that works really well for certain applications.  At this point, fixer crop maintenance/startup is not in the budget  Will probably try in the future after I have more appropriate equipment and time.

[Cookie Monster]

Yes, and it would actually cause the mulch to decompose more rapidly.

I just realized that Spectrum is recommending broadcasting 1262 pounds of dolomitic limestone per acre for your orchard. Not sure how far that would up the pH. But I think mango does enjoy a slightly higher pH.

Yeah I saw that too and the native soil could certainly benefit from the added CA MG and pH up.  I'm going to contact Winfield about a bulk order. Do you think it can be applied on top of the mulch?

[skhan]

So I finally got around to mulching my yard. (3 truckloads)
I'm using it primarily for the ease of mowing in addition to the normal thing like building soil.
I still have to spread it and push it away from the trucks, I'll do that soon.

Concerning fertilizer, what I gather from other members is it may be prudent to add Gypsum along with the normal fertilizer routine, as I plan to do this once a year.
If I read the threads correctly, its to balance the Ca to other nutrients ratio.

Is there anything else I should do?

[Cookie Monster]

You likely won't see any deficiency symptoms for some years. You may be fine on Ca. In my case, I have about 9 inches of compost muck throughout the entire orchard, and the feeder roots live exclusively in this zone, since it's moist and fertile. Once you have spread a few hundred cubic yards (a couple dozen truck loads), then you will have to start worrying about deficiencies :-). For now, you will likely see some improvement in tree healthy due to reduced competition, greater moisture retention, etc.

So I finally got around to mulching my yard. (3 truckloads)
I'm using it primarily for the ease of mowing in addition to the normal thing like building soil.
I still have to spread it and push it away from the trucks, I'll do that soon.

Concerning fertilizer, what I gather from other members is it may be prudent to add Gypsum along with the normal fertilizer routine, as I plan to do this once a year.
If I read the threads correctly, its to balance the Ca to other nutrients ratio.

Is there anything else I should do?

[Tropheus76]

Curious, are your trees up on mounds or do you really have that much mulch piled up against the trunks?

[skhan]

You likely won't see any deficiency symptoms for some years. You may be fine on Ca. In my case, I have about 9 inches of compost muck throughout the entire orchard, and the feeder roots live exclusively in this zone, since it's moist and fertile. Once you have spread a few hundred cubic yards (a couple dozen truck loads), then you will have to start worrying about deficiencies :-). For now, you will likely see some improvement in tree healthy due to reduced competition, greater moisture retention, etc.

So I finally got around to mulching my yard. (3 truckloads)
I'm using it primarily for the ease of mowing in addition to the normal thing like building soil.
I still have to spread it and push it away from the trucks, I'll do that soon.

Concerning fertilizer, what I gather from other members is it may be prudent to add Gypsum along with the normal fertilizer routine, as I plan to do this once a year.
If I read the threads correctly, its to balance the Ca to other nutrients ratio.

Is there anything else I should do?

Thanks, Jeff,
I think I'll have to do one truckload a year to maintain the grass free area.
Alteast until the trees cast enough shade.

[skhan]

Curious, are your trees up on mounds or do you really have that much mulch piled up against the trunks?

It's that much mulch, but the rest of the week will be devoted to spreading it and pulling away from the trunks.

[FruitFreak]

Curious, are your trees up on mounds or do you really have that much mulch piled up against the trunks?

It's that much mulch, but the rest of the week will be devoted to spreading it and pulling away from the trunks.

Mulch can really heat up while stacked high.  Younger trees don't seem to tolerate so well.  I estimate about two more months of mulching before I cut it off.   We have been averaging about 120-160yds per day for a long time.  https://www.facebook.com/Naples-Fruit-Farm-1844962002500352/

[FruitFreak]

You likely won't see any deficiency symptoms for some years. You may be fine on Ca. In my case, I have about 9 inches of compost muck throughout the entire orchard, and the feeder roots live exclusively in this zone, since it's moist and fertile. Once you have spread a few hundred cubic yards (a couple dozen truck loads), then you will have to start worrying about deficiencies :-). For now, you will likely see some improvement in tree healthy due to reduced competition, greater moisture retention, etc.

So I finally got around to mulching my yard. (3 truckloads)
I'm using it primarily for the ease of mowing in addition to the normal thing like building soil.
I still have to spread it and push it away from the trucks, I'll do that soon.

Concerning fertilizer, what I gather from other members is it may be prudent to add Gypsum along with the normal fertilizer routine, as I plan to do this once a year.
If I read the threads correctly, its to balance the Ca to other nutrients ratio.

Is there anything else I should do?

If you haven't already done a soil analysis, it's a quick way to determine the most suitable input for your orchard.  Determining the pH is fundamental.

[Cookie Monster]

Sounds about right. A truck load can vary between about 12 and 30 cubic yards (some of those trucks are big).

In my case, I started like you have. Then I just gave up and mulched over the entire yard :-). It's a lot of work though. A good load can take 100 8cf wheel barrow loads. And I was using somewhere around 8 loads a year -- close to 1,000 trips of the wheel barrow back and forth. I started to get carpal tunnel and eventually just hired someone :-). One of these days, I'd like to find some sort of motorized device (not a tractor).

Thanks, Jeff,
I think I'll have to do one truckload a year to maintain the grass free area.
Alteast until the trees cast enough shade.

[Cookie Monster]

Correct. He should be fertilizing, as he will surely be lacking in nutrition. The mulch won't be a factor for a few years though.

pH is probably going to be alkaline, and he should be able to correct with an application of sulfur.

If you haven't already done a soil analysis, it's a quick way to determine the most suitable input for your orchard.  Determining the pH is fundamental.

[Cookie Monster]

Holy cow. How many acres are you on?

Key is to just keep the mulch a few inches away from the trunk.

Mulch can really heat up while stacked high.  Younger trees don't seem to tolerate so well.  I estimate about two more months of mulching before I cut it off.   We have been averaging about 120-160yds per day for a long time.  https://www.facebook.com/Naples-Fruit-Farm-1844962002500352/

[pineislander]

Thanks, Jeff,
I think I'll have to do one truckload a year to maintain the grass free area.
Alteast until the trees cast enough shade.

Looks good and will be better when you spread out to cover the root zone. Be aware that some folks who have rhizomatous grass (stuff that spreads by underground rhizomes like Torpedo/Bermuda types) have found those grasses may begin to encroach into the mulch from the edges. Those roots can be up to 1 ft deep in sandy soil. If it does head into the mulch it can become even more vigorous with a good water supply and eventually may grow right back up to the tree inside the mulch.

I was able to find 1000 lbs. new construction scrap USA made gypsum drywall board for free and set it down before mulching to have the calcium/sulphur available and not messy looking. Builders are usually happy to let you take away their scrap, find a house site under construction, don't use old drywall. I'm watching another house under construction for the drywall guys to move in and get me more scrap. Thanks to Guanabanus for the tip!

[Cookie Monster]

haha! that's smart. It's probably going to last a little longer in that form and under the mulch. My granular gypsum, broadcast on top of the mulch, only lasted me a season.

Thanks, Jeff,
I think I'll have to do one truckload a year to maintain the grass free area.
Alteast until the trees cast enough shade.

Looks good and will be better when you spread out to cover the root zone. Be aware that some folks who have rhizomatous grass (stuff that spreads by underground rhizomes like Torpedo/Bermuda types) have found those grasses may begin to encroach into the mulch from the edges. Those roots can be up to 1 ft deep in sandy soil. If it does head into the mulch it can become even more vigorous with a good water supply and eventually may grow right back up to the tree inside the mulch.

I was able to find 1000 lbs. new construction scrap USA made gypsum drywall board for free and set it down before mulching to have the calcium/sulphur available and not messy looking. Builders are usually happy to let you take away their scrap, find a house site under construction, don't use old drywall. I'm watching another house under construction for the drywall guys to move in and get me more scrap. Thanks to Guanabanus for the tip!