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Author Topic: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....  (Read 4588 times)

MarinFla

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Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« on: October 17, 2012, 09:51:08 AM »
Which method of using this imidacloprid is better/ most cost effective for palm trees---- soil drench with Imidacloprid 75% used as a drench at the root ($35 for 1200 gallons) Versus a pest control company coming to use Arborjet injection  ($150)?

I was leaning towards the soil drench thinking it should be cost effective, it would work within a week or so after application and I would have lots left over for later use. But the pest control guy is telling me it won't work (obviously it benefits him for me to believe that- so for that reason I am a bit skeptic of this advise)  He wants to inject them at $50-60 per tree.

Thoughts?

 

Seadation

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 10:38:03 AM »
I'm interested to hear replies I have a huge black olive tree in my front yard that is full of white fly and it needs to be treated as well. Would like to know what the best option is.

bsbullie

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 12:16:31 PM »
A lot of people/companies do not believe in injecting trees.  I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer here but instead an opinionated answer.

I know i sound like a broken record but depending on the level of infestation, Imidacloprid is not always completely effective.  I know it is more expensive and not all companies will apply it but Safari's ruslts seem to be more effective.

To answer your question, I would not inject.  I would opt cor drench and spray where needed...it has been effective when i had it done in my community.
- Rob

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 01:51:40 PM »
Which method of using this imidacloprid is better/ most cost effective for palm trees---- soil drench with Imidacloprid 75% used as a drench at the root ($35 for 1200 gallons) Versus a pest control company coming to use Arborjet injection  ($150)?

I was leaning towards the soil drench thinking it should be cost effective, it would work within a week or so after application and I would have lots left over for later use. But the pest control guy is telling me it won't work (obviously it benefits him for me to believe that- so for that reason I am a bit skeptic of this advise)  He wants to inject them at $50-60 per tree.

Thoughts?

I'm not really an expert...but have some experience with it.  One of my trees was not growing for most of the year.  Shortly after a soil drench, it's started substantial growth.  Something was probably eating the roots, until the imidacloprid drench stopped it.  Another tree was having "fish bone" leaves from white weevils; that stopped within a week of my drenching the tree.

Some people say takes six months for the imadacloprid to leave a tree's system, incase you put it on trees that bear fruits.  It may be better to "do it yourself" if you drench, so you know the concentrations applied and to time it to avoid the tree's fruiting cycle.

You can find Imidacloprid 70% packets on eBay for less than $20, which are large enough to treat your and your neighbors yards, once diluted.  The packet is water soluable, just put the packet in a bucket of water and the packaging dissolves. 



I would not "inject" my trees.  Drilling a hole into your trees to inject them with poison sounds a lot more invasive than a soil drench. 
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MarinFla

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 03:22:55 PM »
UPDATE:
This afternoon, I spoke to a guy who owns a very large landscape maintenance company that services big neighborhoods for the HOAs. He said the imidacloprid works very well as a drench and suggested adding liquid fertilizer to the mixture of the chemical. He said a 5 gallon drench for each coconut palm spread all around the base of the tree should work well. Praying the hedges and other affected trees is also recommended. You could also soil drench the ficus hedge in addition to spraying it,  as it will kill what is currently flying on it while you wait for the systemic affect. That is my plan.

amaqeq

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 04:49:37 PM »
MarinFla, If you don't mind I would hitchhike and add few words
(If you do mind, I'll edit and remove them.)

Few points regarding Imidacloprid
Quote
Something was probably eating the roots, until the imidacloprid drench stopped it

For not yet explained reason, Imidacloprid will occasionally boost growth
of vegetables and trees especially young ones, also if roots are healthy
end even in sterile soil

Although I have it in abundance, I'm only rarely using it, As It is hurting the bees
(observed it personally) think few times before using

The material is relatively stable and linger in the ground for long time

Although companies who produce flea control drops for dogs, claim their formulation
of Imidacloprid contain different molecular structure, enabling better solubility in oil,
professional dog breeders use the same agricultural grade(diluted) as an alternative

There is another neonicotinoid product Acetamiprid which is more stable toward light
and so it can be sprayed,
For Citrus  Acetamiprid is preferable than Imidacloprid
One formulations (mixed with color), Is brushed: painting a
ring around the trunk, it is absorbed that way(Citrus)
Do not know what about trees other than citrus
The problem is not so much adsorption, But more lingering and reaching the fruits





 

CTMIAMI

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 06:40:17 PM »
I have used several forms of this product from the retail Bayer products sold at Home Depot and Lowes to agricultural products.
I like it and I have used it on ornamentals and tropical fruit trees.  I give you some of my experiences:
I had a bad whitefly infestation 2 1/2 years ago in 20 Black Olives in a parking lot. I had just purchased the Arborjet injection system so I applied their Imidacloprid version it took 2 quarts so it was very expensive per tree. There is really no reason to inject at these prices.  It eradicated the whitefly in two weeks. Then what I have done is to maintain the levels by applying a generic professional granular version that I buy for $35.00 for 30 lbs, I apply 2  bags every 6-7 month among the 20 trees.  So far 32 months after, they are pest free.
I have used the Bayer Fruit tree Imidacloprid sold in Home depot. I use a Gilmour Sprayer and spray the whole tree and the ground.  I used two containers applied two weeks apart, the last this past Sunday and this morning all the whiteflies were dead on the leaves.  This was two 32 oz jars for 3 adult avocado trees. Total cost $26-30 more or less. Im not concerned about the active ingredient getting into the the avocado because the avocado stem acts like a filter and I have seen studies were imidacloprid has been applied and no  a.i. is found in the fruit.
For the last few years I have an European Fan palm that gets whitefly and whatever else is around I put the Bayer 12 month Tree and Shrub Dual Action formula it has another additional ingredient plus fertilizer it is a think green liquid and I apply it every 14-16 month and has kept the European Palm clean.
In July this year, I saw some whitefly in my grove for the first time. I applied the agricultural versions of a label approved for avocado is called AdmirePro at the maximum rate per acre, 14 oz. Is not expensive $170.00 per gallon and is 45% active ingredient As of now I have not seen a whitefly again in my grove. I was concerned about the bees so I had them pulled out but left a couple of hives just to see. As of yesterday the hives are healthy and vibrant. I think the key is to apply after the flowers are gone. By next flowering period the active ingredient should be very low, and next year Ill apply the lowest amount per acre 7 oz.
Over all it is a good product and has gone down in price quite a bit. The trick is to kill the infestation and then maintain with the lowest possible amount. Always apply it with fertilizer,  mixed with urea for better performance.
Carlos
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Seadation

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 06:58:56 PM »
Good post CT. Where do you get the 30 lb bag fir 35 dollars from?

amaqeq

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 09:23:47 PM »

Not all plants are the same, not all will transport similar dose to reproductive organs
Toxicity to bees is a certainty,  What differ are those factors who build up the lethal dose
Among them: Reservoir that was left in the ground till the next bloom
(extremely variable).
How much the plant is transferring to the pollen(differ between plants)
Does Bees feed on one crop solely, or more
What is the formulation.
No doubt imidacloprid is effective against white fly, and extremely easy to use in any way
However
Its features, mainly dropping prices & easy to apply and forget,  making it very tempting
Yet it is advised to use it sparely and wisely only when really needed
Eventually, same as Organophosphate Pesticides were replaced by Pyrethroid Pesticides
which in their turn where replaced by neonicotinoid Pesticides
Those last ones In their turn will be replaced two
Already white fly populations begin to develop immunity mostly toward Imidacloprid,
and to lesser extent toward Acetamiprid,
For the meanwhile dosage change will suffice to handle those populations
The advise of using few different pesticides in circulation to prevent immunity
is forgotten by many farmers.

To conclude,
Not hugging trees at weekends, and not dancing naked at the camp fire,
Just being realistic and practical(opposed to theoretical)
Although that material is good for controlling white fly among others,
it is not a product without blemishes, Do not use it just because its cheep and easy
And if used try to apply not more than advised

Quote
the avocado stem acts like a filter
How does it reach the leafs than.

I second CTMIAMI advises, Not to apply wile plants are blooming
And use as little as possible, Measure not by guessing, use accurate volumetric

Since that stuff is not needed on the surface, but at root depth
if the soil is dry drench it a bit with water, then with the diluted material, and again with
small amount of water so tat the roots will meet it quickly
 
 
 

Guanabanus

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 10:49:11 PM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.
Har

CTMIAMI

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 11:01:31 PM »
Good post CT. Where do you get the 30 lb bag fir 35 dollars from?

All agricultural or nursery supplies carry it here in So. FL is made by CRITERION. Here is the product. I paid 32.00 in my local supply store http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/imidacloprid-0-5g-insecticide-30-pounds-criterion-0-5-g-merit-0-5g-184.html
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

CTMIAMI

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 11:09:27 PM »

Quote
the avocado stem acts like a filter
How does it reach the leafs than.

I'm not sure I'm not a scientist An older grower told me about it and I have research the topic. I personally have applied propiconazole fungicide to an avocado tree and the vascular tissue reads 14 ppm and the fruit none. I paid for the test because I wanted to make sure it would not get on the fruit my family eats. The is a study out there on avocados and imidacloprid.
The stem above the fruit is the filter, it gets to the leaves fine. Mother mature is a lot smarter than we are.
Carlos
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zone 10a Miami-Dade County

MarinFla

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 05:30:32 AM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.

I will be mostly treating the ficus hedge and 3 coconut palms. The palms were recently trimmed by the arborists that maintain the trees here in my neighborhood so there are no flowering parts left on the trees. I could easily cut off any emerging flowering 'branches' on the palms and snip off any emerging flowers from other fruit trees to protect the bees.

The question I am considering is whether 4 months after the application the imidacloprid could it found in mangoes next year after the flowers begin to emerge in February/March and will the bees be killed that long after ?

bsbullie

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 06:23:26 AM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.

I will be mostly treating the ficus hedge and 3 coconut palms. The palms were recently trimmed by the arborists that maintain the trees here in my neighborhood so there are no flowering parts left on the trees. I could easily cut off any emerging flowering 'branches' on the palms and snip off any emerging flowers from other fruit trees to protect the bees.

The question I am considering is whether 4 months after the application the imidacloprid could it found in mangoes next year after the flowers begin to emerge in February/March and will the bees be killed that long after ?
I am not sure what actual studies have been done but since application are said to be good for six months.  On the other hand, bees do not feed on mango flowers.
- Rob

MarinFla

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2012, 05:42:58 PM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.

I will be mostly treating the ficus hedge and 3 coconut palms. The palms were recently trimmed by the arborists that maintain the trees here in my neighborhood so there are no flowering parts left on the trees. I could easily cut off any emerging flowering 'branches' on the palms and snip off any emerging flowers from other fruit trees to protect the bees.

The question I am considering is whether 4 months after the application the imidacloprid could it found in mangoes next year after the flowers begin to emerge in February/March and will the bees be killed that long after ?
I am not sure what actual studies have been done but since application are said to be good for six months.  On the other hand, bees do not feed on mango flowers.

Hi Rob, Sorry that wasn't clear it was two separate thoughts:
Would  mangoes have levels of the imidacloprid that could be harmful (I know they are pollinated by flies ect)
And would the bees be harmed 5-6 months later ? (As I would removed my citrus blooms during that time frame if needed)

Tropicdude

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 11:11:34 AM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.

I will be mostly treating the ficus hedge and 3 coconut palms. The palms were recently trimmed by the arborists that maintain the trees here in my neighborhood so there are no flowering parts left on the trees. I could easily cut off any emerging flowering 'branches' on the palms and snip off any emerging flowers from other fruit trees to protect the bees.

The question I am considering is whether 4 months after the application the imidacloprid could it found in mangoes next year after the flowers begin to emerge in February/March and will the bees be killed that long after ?
I am not sure what actual studies have been done but since application are said to be good for six months.  On the other hand, bees do not feed on mango flowers.

Hi Rob, Sorry that wasn't clear it was two separate thoughts:
Would  mangoes have levels of the imidacloprid that could be harmful (I know they are pollinated by flies ect)
And would the bees be harmed 5-6 months later ? (As I would removed my citrus blooms during that time frame if needed)

I know this is an old post,  but wanted to respond to this, question,  since I have been doing research on imidacloprid , which I recently purchased for my wife, and her ornamental plants.  of the commercial insecticides, it seemed to be on the lower end of the toxicity spectrum for humans.   

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23196371       this study has found that 85 days after a spray, there is no residuals in the fruit.    so it seems to me that,  the best way to use this insecticide ( if one really needs it ) is right after the tree has flowered,  this will protect the bees.  and should be completely out of its system by the time fruits are ready to pick.   I used a little drench on one potted mango tree with scale.   and another Avocado with white flies.  as a test.

anyone have any other experiences to add here?
William
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KarenRei

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 11:59:56 AM »
My experience isn't totally applicable, but: once long, long ago when I was just starting out indoor growing I had a bad aphid infestation on one plant. I used a soil drench of imidacloprid, and it worked wonders.

Fast forward a couple weeks and the plant was being killed by spider mites.  Apparently, at least in greenhouse conditions, imidacloprid can make spider mites take off, as it's not poisonous to them but it makes them poisonous to their predators.

Just a word of warning.
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki klikku. Jja, kannski...

fruitlovers

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Re: Experts please offer up your experience with Imidacloprid....
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 04:41:41 PM »
Since Ficus hedges don't normally get to flower around here, treating them with Imidacloprid is unlikely to harm bees, so long as no flowering plant's roots are also there.

Coconuts flower throughout the year and are heavily visited by bees.   Treating Coconuts with Imidacloprid or Safari is likely going to kill many bee babies.

I will be mostly treating the ficus hedge and 3 coconut palms. The palms were recently trimmed by the arborists that maintain the trees here in my neighborhood so there are no flowering parts left on the trees. I could easily cut off any emerging flowering 'branches' on the palms and snip off any emerging flowers from other fruit trees to protect the bees.

The question I am considering is whether 4 months after the application the imidacloprid could it found in mangoes next year after the flowers begin to emerge in February/March and will the bees be killed that long after ?
I am not sure what actual studies have been done but since application are said to be good for six months.  On the other hand, bees do not feed on mango flowers.

Hi Rob, Sorry that wasn't clear it was two separate thoughts:
Would  mangoes have levels of the imidacloprid that could be harmful (I know they are pollinated by flies ect)
And would the bees be harmed 5-6 months later ? (As I would removed my citrus blooms during that time frame if needed)

I know this is an old post,  but wanted to respond to this, question,  since I have been doing research on imidacloprid , which I recently purchased for my wife, and her ornamental plants.  of the commercial insecticides, it seemed to be on the lower end of the toxicity spectrum for humans.   

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23196371       this study has found that 85 days after a spray, there is no residuals in the fruit.    so it seems to me that,  the best way to use this insecticide ( if one really needs it ) is right after the tree has flowered,  this will protect the bees.  and should be completely out of its system by the time fruits are ready to pick.   I used a little drench on one potted mango tree with scale.   and another Avocado with white flies.  as a test.

anyone have any other experiences to add here?
Can you clarify? Haven't read the study yet. But imidacloprid is usually used as a soil drench. And here you say 85 days after spraying? It would seem to me that as a systemic drench it would stay inside the whole plant, not just the fruit, for a lot longer than 85 days?
Oscar

 

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