Author Topic: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!  (Read 52889 times)

Mike T

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #200 on: June 03, 2018, 03:42:55 AM »
I meant trees, businesses and property not humans. Being an ongoing 'disaster', the stress must be terrible as there is no relief because it hasn't finished. The authorities often cop heat during natural disasters and it is great if the community is cohesive and together with dealing with it. 

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #201 on: June 03, 2018, 05:15:12 AM »
I meant trees, businesses and property not humans. Being an ongoing 'disaster', the stress must be terrible as there is no relief because it hasn't finished. The authorities often cop heat during natural disasters and it is great if the community is cohesive and together with dealing with it.
It hasn't finished, and worse yet, nobody knows. or has any educated guesses, of when it will finish. That is also a big part of the stress. The number 88 days is thrown around a lot, just because that is how long the 1955 flow, to which this is compared, lasted. But there is really no reason to believe the number of days duration will be similar.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 05:53:24 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #202 on: June 03, 2018, 11:03:12 AM »
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John
Pele can shut off just as mysteriously as she comes on. Look for example at the 2014 flow. It went 14 miles and then shut off only 400 ft. from Pahoa town. Is that a miracle? Look also at 1955 flow, headed straight towards Vacationland and then shut off less than 1/2 mile from the coast. Is that a miracle? Whatever you want to call it i hope it happens again because Kapoho Beach lots is really a beautiful and special area. It is the very first area i lived in when i first got here. Right now it sure doesn't look good.

Said miracle will need to happen today or tomorrow if it's going to happen in time.

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KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #203 on: June 03, 2018, 06:30:56 PM »
The miracle did not come  :(



This is heartbreaking...  :(




« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 06:36:50 PM by KarenRei »
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fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #204 on: June 03, 2018, 06:49:55 PM »
Now that it has reached the coast the flow is an will cotinue widen considerably due to flat land. Looks like it will take out that whole coastline, including about 500 homes there. The media cycle seems to be behind the curve on this one, as it is the most destructive part of the eruption, and they haven't picked up on it yet?
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #205 on: June 03, 2018, 07:39:51 PM »
You can see in the picture how much lava is still flowing into this flow, so it doesn't look like it'll be choking off anytime soon....     :(
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shot

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #206 on: June 03, 2018, 07:55:36 PM »
green lake gone next the tide pools sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #208 on: June 04, 2018, 03:52:37 PM »
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #209 on: June 04, 2018, 04:58:48 PM »
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon
Hi Simon, i'm fine. No plans to evacuate as yet. We are safe, just a bit stressed out....as you might imagine. Last few days have been raining rocks here from fissure 8, the one doing most of the damage now. That fissure is only 2 miles away, but fortunately downhill from us.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #210 on: June 04, 2018, 06:23:02 PM »
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon
Hi Simon, i'm fine. No plans to evacuate as yet. We are safe, just a bit stressed out....as you might imagine. Last few days have been raining rocks here from fissure 8, the one doing most of the damage now. That fissure is only 2 miles away, but fortunately downhill from us.
That sounds like a sucky situation Oscar, hang in there hope you don't have to evacuate! ::)

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #211 on: June 04, 2018, 06:35:26 PM »
Lava's now flowing into Kapoho Bay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t0EmqU1DcU

No surprises, but....   :(
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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #212 on: June 05, 2018, 03:48:45 AM »
New, vigorous (hot on IR) flow on the south side of the Kapoho flow:



On the upside, it'll rob the original flow of vigor; it won't die instantly but it should eventually peter out.  On the downside, the new flow is headed right for Vacationland in its own right, and doesn't have all that far to go  :Þ  They're basically going to re-merge.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 06:29:43 AM by KarenRei »
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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #213 on: June 05, 2018, 12:19:34 PM »
Oscar, its a very sad and grave situation out there and my heart goes out to all affected.

I studied geology and am a civil/environmental engineer. what worries me the most is pressure built up. normally fissures dont open if main volcano crater can take all that pressure and blow lava into the air. When pressure underground increases, lava will escape weak points first. Is lava flowing out of main crater? I am not sure about that. Eventually if pressure continues to rise, you may see a new crater form at any fissures after it blows off the top OR main crater blows the top off. Hope that does not happen and riftzone relieves that pressure from mounting beyond control. Something to remember, be safe.

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #214 on: June 05, 2018, 12:44:51 PM »
It's been a while since any new eruptive fissures opened, despite all of the rift's threatening to move west. The eastern vents have closed, which you wouldn't expect if there was some extreme overpressure. Looks - at least as it stands - like the current vents are dealing with the flow rate.

Fissures are not unusual when it comes to basaltic volcanism, and you don't have to have the main crater erupting at the same time, by any stretch.  More often than not, the magma will even basically "erupt into the ground" - splitting a dike but with the magma never reaching the surface - to those on the surface, it comes across as nothing more than a propagating quake swarm. An eruptive fissure is a surface expression of a dike.

Oscar would be more familiar with the ratio of fissure to crater eruptions in Hawaii and their typical behavior, but where I am, most eruptions are fissure eruptions***.  It's usually the thicker, more explosive andesitic / rhyolitic lavas  (e.g. characteristic of volcanoes in the Ring of Fire) that are reluctant to stray far from their main crater.

*** One big difference is that we're a spreading centre while Hawaii isn't.  So for example, we don't get "3 decade-long very low flow rate eruptions" like they do; we tend more toward massive lava eruptions, 3 months to a couple years long.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 01:02:34 PM by KarenRei »
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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #215 on: June 05, 2018, 06:08:48 PM »
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.



500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 08:15:58 PM by KarenRei »
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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2018, 06:26:30 PM »
One of the most beautiful spots in puna hawaii makes me so sad.

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #217 on: June 06, 2018, 05:45:52 PM »
Oscar, its a very sad and grave situation out there and my heart goes out to all affected.

I studied geology and am a civil/environmental engineer. what worries me the most is pressure built up. normally fissures dont open if main volcano crater can take all that pressure and blow lava into the air. When pressure underground increases, lava will escape weak points first. Is lava flowing out of main crater? I am not sure about that. Eventually if pressure continues to rise, you may see a new crater form at any fissures after it blows off the top OR main crater blows the top off. Hope that does not happen and riftzone relieves that pressure from mounting beyond control. Something to remember, be safe.
No there is no lava flow out of main crater (Halemaumau), only explosions of ash. The heightened pressure was caused by the bottom dropping out of that crater, and of another feeder crater (PuuO'o). Both these craters had large lava lakes and when their bottoms dropped out all that lava in those lakes was injected into the lower east rift zone. It seems that the pressure is going down now as there are a lot less active fissures, only one very active one, and the lava fountain on that one is getting smaller every day.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #218 on: June 06, 2018, 05:54:48 PM »
It's been a while since any new eruptive fissures opened, despite all of the rift's threatening to move west. The eastern vents have closed, which you wouldn't expect if there was some extreme overpressure. Looks - at least as it stands - like the current vents are dealing with the flow rate.

Fissures are not unusual when it comes to basaltic volcanism, and you don't have to have the main crater erupting at the same time, by any stretch.  More often than not, the magma will even basically "erupt into the ground" - splitting a dike but with the magma never reaching the surface - to those on the surface, it comes across as nothing more than a propagating quake swarm. An eruptive fissure is a surface expression of a dike.

Oscar would be more familiar with the ratio of fissure to crater eruptions in Hawaii and their typical behavior, but where I am, most eruptions are fissure eruptions***.  It's usually the thicker, more explosive andesitic / rhyolitic lavas  (e.g. characteristic of volcanoes in the Ring of Fire) that are reluctant to stray far from their main crater.

*** One big difference is that we're a spreading centre while Hawaii isn't.  So for example, we don't get "3 decade-long very low flow rate eruptions" like they do; we tend more toward massive lava eruptions, 3 months to a couple years long.
The continuous eruption here since 1983 has all been out of a feeder crater called Puu O'O, not the main crater. Puu O'o has caused flows downstream for those 35 years downstream mostly through surface and lava tubes. There has not been lava flows from fissures here since 1960 and 1955. All those spectacular fountains of lava have not occured previousy for 58-63 years. Now that Puu O'o has finished nobody knows what is in store for future. Will another crater below main crater start flowing, or will the flow continue for a long time through a fissure creating a new crater?
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #219 on: June 06, 2018, 06:02:18 PM »
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.

500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs
The total house destruction in that area right now is estimated at 300, not 500.
A section of northern Kapoho is still there. I lived in a house on Kapoho Beach lots that is one of the few still standing. I guess there are about 35-40 houses still standing in northern Kapoho Beach lots. But ofcourse all those houses are isolated due to no road access. It will be a very big problem now to find housing for all the displaced people. Very many of those houses were vacation rentals, but there were people that lived there year round. There is not enough housing here for the hundreds displaced. I think a lot of them will have to move back to the mainland. It will take many years to recover from all this destruction. I wonder how long it will be even before the roads are repaired? Probably many months or years.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:32:50 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #220 on: June 06, 2018, 06:36:01 PM »
That is all so scary. Glad you are ok.

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #221 on: June 06, 2018, 06:50:05 PM »
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.

500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs
The total house destruction in that area right now is estimated at 300, not 500.
A section of northern Kapoho is still there. I lived in a house on Kapoho Beach lots that is one of the few still standing. I guess there are about 35-40 houses still standing in northern Kapoho Beach lots. But ofcourse all those houses are isolated due to no road access.

Just quoting KHON (linked), based on the info that was available of the time of the report.

As expected, the flow continues to expand. No signs of any alternative flows forming elsewhere that might cut off this one.



Though the bay is gone, I hope that the home you lived in makes it. I know the area will never be the same, but....

Quote
It will be a very big problem now to find housing for all the displaced people. Very many of those houses were vacation rentals, but there were people that lived there year round. There is not enough housing here for the hundreds displaced. I think a lot of them will have to move back to the mainland. It will take many years to recover from all this destruction. I wonder how long it will be even before the roads are repaired? Probably many months or years.

Are people not opening up their homes for them?

Is there just not enough housing period for them, or is it a problem of there being no money to house them? I mean, surely with all of the vacation housing in Hawaii there's enough rooms available, isn't there? Is it a money thing? 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:00:15 PM by KarenRei »
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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #222 on: June 06, 2018, 07:58:58 PM »
The estimate you quote is not an official estimate, but based on a guess of total number of homes in area. BTW, many of the structures were greenhouses, sheds, storage, and other structures that are not counted in all these official estimates.
Many AirBnb's have opened up their homes for free to refugees. None of the hotels have done so, as far as i know. This is all on a voluntary basis, and obviously is not a permanent solution. Some of the churches are helping with housing. The local government is starting to place tiny houses on church grounds, and waiving some of their usual codes and rules. Now that over 100 homes were destroyed FEMA will start to help. Yes FEMA has a minimum in order to help?!?! I think most people are staying with friends and relatives or have already left long time ago. The shelters are almost all at capacity right now, and those are also temporary. As usual it is the poorer people that suffer the most. Most in that area were middle class, but there were also retirees, and many poorer long time residents.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #224 on: June 07, 2018, 04:22:37 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be

Irony alert: when I went to watch this video, the ad YouTube decided to show was of a giant volcano erupting in the movie Jurassic World.  :Þ

First time I heard some actual flow rate figures.  I know these figures are impressive by Hawaiian standards, although they're really low from what I'm used to (6-9m cubic metres per day; 9m/day = 100 cubic metres per second... when Bárðarbunga started erupting she was at 1000 cubic metres per second, and spent months in the several-hundred range, and nearly a year over 100).  It's just the location that's terrible with this one.  Actually reminds me a lot of Eldfell / Heimaey... similar onset, similar flow rate, similarly terrible location.

Impressive pictures of the crater's ongoing collapse.  We actually don't get to see most of our craters directly, as they're covered in thick glaciers; instead we get ice cauldrons, which actually look surprisingly similar, except out of ice.

Thanks for the link!

« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 04:34:47 AM by KarenRei »
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