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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: USPS irradiating packages?
« on: August 13, 2018, 04:55:51 PM »
Usually a little root disturbance isn't a big issue (at least for the common stuff we grow here in FL). Bare rooting is a bit sketchy for tropicals though. Part of it also depends on season. For example, bare rooting a mango during the dormancy period can be fatal.

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: USPS irradiating packages?
« on: August 13, 2018, 03:06:18 PM »
Don't think USPS will cover a dead plant. They might cover it if they lost it.

Agree that it's likely the heat. Temps in the back of a truck are probably north of 150 degrees this time of year.

3
My jumbo kesar is definitely not that big.

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant ID -. Are these Canistels
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:10:17 PM »
Yah, looks related to cashew. Leaf should have a pepper smell.

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit identification
« on: August 10, 2018, 06:35:19 PM »
From what I've been told, mamoncillo is one of the hardest fruit trees to graft. If memory serves, Lara's grafter got about 5% - 10% take. Grafts on this species are extremely susceptible to fungus, to the point where it's not really even possible to cover the grafts. I understand that the best method of propagating these is via air layer of large / thick branches.

6
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Children and Grafting
« on: August 10, 2018, 06:32:20 PM »
It's probably OK. Does it look desiccated?

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit identification
« on: August 10, 2018, 11:51:40 AM »
My wife calls them "talpajocote" :-)

In El Salvador they are called "mamon" but they are sweet. I guess its like the Tamarind, we only have it sour and I didn't know that there was a sweet version of them. :) and the trees are huge! :)

8
Weird. I consider Angie to be an improved / firmer carrie. I've never tasted carrot. That's odd.

Alex, you said that your customers find Carrie and Angie indistinguishable.  How about you?  Do think Angie is as sweet?  (I don't.)

The Angie's that both myself the the folks at Sulcata grove have had have been horrible spitters. One of the worst varieties I've ever had. They taste like cooked carrots.  Sulcata grove says they have tried them in 3 different seasons and agree.  Maybe we both just had bad luck because some people say they are good, but any comparison to Carrie is absurd IMHE.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tdO4KcH63M

9
Buds are never really inactive, unless you're grafting over the winter. If you mean that they aren't actively pushing, that is not a problem as long as the budwood and its foliage have hardened.

When you graft mango budwood, the scion first needs to establish cambium bonding, which starts to take place within the first couple of weeks. Once the cambium of the scion has fully bonded to the rootstock, the scion will stay alive nearly indefinitely. Assuming the rootstock has leaves or is thick enough to have built up energy reserves (or is newly emerged from a seed, which has enough energy for about 2 flushes), the scion's buds will eventually swell and flush.

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best tasting mangos of 2018
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:52:54 AM »
Yah, 18 degrees of brix is pretty low for an OS this late in the season. Should be well into the 20's.

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud Grafting T-Bud Graft Method
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:47:30 AM »
Congrats. That's a take.

My first successful push from a Mango bud graft. I didnít use any chemicals but trimming back some of the apical dominance seems to have helped. This bud has been completely unwrapped for about a month and the heat seems to have been the final push it needed. For those members in SoCal, right now is a good time to attempt bud grafts because rootstocks are usually pushing vigorously in the warm weather.

I know, I know, itís really still too early to call it a success but all the other buds have already died off and this is the only one showing signs of life. The union looks pretty good although this bud graft is on a relatively weak branch.

The rootstock is one of my California Super Mango Rootstocks and the tree grew too vigorously. The branches that formed on this potted Mango were too large and the branches had too many divets from growth buds to put on a regular cleft, side cleft or veneer graft. Bud grafting seemed like the best option because of all the growth bumps.

The tree has since exploded with more normal growth that is much smoother which I plan on cleft, side and veneer grafting. I may put on a few more bud grafts just for fun.

This bud graft that is beginning to push is one of the buds that I posted pictures of one or two pages back.





Simon

12
Interesting. About 5% of my OS harvest had MBBS this year.

My keitt, which would regularly lose 90% of its crop to MBBS was down to about 50% crop loss this year, and even those with MBBS spotting held on the tree much longer than before. I think the hard pruning followed by copper treatment did help. I didn't note any MBBS until my spray routine went from once every 2 weeks to once a month or more (somewhere around June). I feel like there is some hope that a fortnightly copper spray will ameliorate the symptoms. Going to test my theory next year :-).

The smallish, well-loaded tree of Lemon Zest that I observed this year, had about 90% of the fruits destroyed by what appears to be Mango Bacterial Black Spot.  Although one side of the fruits was usually edible, the bad side was too gross to present, not even on a "severely-defective-mangos-for-chutney" table.  I hope we find some effective protocol for prevention of MBBS, as Lemon Zest is way too wonderful a fruit to give up on.

Po Pyu Kalay / Lemon Meringue was also very affected by the apparent MBBS, but less than 10% were destroyed, while more than half had several very small, very black, raised, split and oozing spots.  This decreased in frequency when I switched to sanitation harvesting, picking fruits of all varieties as soon as the spots became obvious, as the chance is reduced to zilch that any increase in value will occur from leaving the fruits longer on the trees.  So the fruits are blemished and often greener than we would like.  Not having fruits with active oozing on the trees does give some fruits a chance to be clean.

I have not observed Orange Sherbet in the presence of this disease.

13
An off-tree ripening period of a week or less is ideal.

Mallika seems to need a week or more in order to lose the musky flavor (Dr Richard Campbell once said it tastes like "gym socks"). Fortunately, I don't mind the musky component. I'm still trying to figure the mallika out though. A good percentage of the fruits get some sort of internal cavity disorder, and the ones that are edible seem to vary quite a bit in terms of flavor.

When I say tree ripe, I dont mean you pick and its ready to eat.  Its more of a color change/maturity stage and still may take a couple or few days to be ready to eat (but certainly different than mature green).

Jeff, you also prefer that chalkiness and the acidic component, in some, or all(?), mangoes, that I say is more of that found from picking mature green.  Now, to be honest, some can be and even benefit, Mallika as one, if picked at the proper mature green stage (very hard to determine on a regular basis) but tbis is the outlier.

This all debatable however its a matter of choice to those eating (and thats where I say I have found more prefer them picked "tree ripe"), not what is right or wrong.

14
Odd. I've been growing and harvesting mangoes for about a dozen years. Never noted any negative effect in terms of flavor and texture by harvesting mature green and ripening indoors. It is counter-intuitive, and generally newer growers are extremely reluctant to believe such an outlandish concept -- since grocery store fruit is generally of lower quality (I think there are other factors at play, and I think they harvest towards the immature end of the spectrum). It took me several years to convince myself of this.

The current year was absolutely the worst I can remember in terms of flavor, but that was true for both tree ripened fruit and fruit ripened indoors.

And, in reference to the Orange Sherbet mango referenced at the beginning of this thread (picture on another thread), the reason why it had soft nose disorder was precisely because it was allowed to stay too long on the tree (I know this because I've been harvesting OS from my tree over the past couple of months and have experimented both ways). But, most of us like to find these things out the hard way :D.

For reference, here is the OS that nighthawk is referring to:

https://postimg.cc/image/hprj4ku59/

I have to agree 100% with bsbullie. The whole reason I started planting my own trees was that I was tired of under ripe/picked green fruit. Now I have 150 mango trees alone.

15
Sounds like zill hpp had a bad harvest year. For me, it was the worst year for mango flavor in the dozen or so years I've been growing and harvesting them here. You might want to give them another shot next year. PPK is normally extremely good. I've eaten Gary Zill's mangoes in previous years, and they've generally been of high quality. Walter's fruits are normally high quality as well.

Who were they from?

Iíve had about 10 PPK this year and was looking forward to eating them since they have always been on my top ten list for years....until this year. I received the fruits hard rock green and I waited until they yellowed up. The texture was gelatinous and the flavor underwhelming i was surprised and disappointed
from a friend in Florida zhpp I believe

16
Agree. The damage can be pretty severe too. If you come back 10 years later and cut into a limb that had sunburn, you'll see a dark brown dead portion of the inner core that runs the length of the limb.

I'd do it now, with one important caveat:  any remaining large branches that are sloping less than 45-degrees of angle, and that now are suddenly exposed to midday sun in this blazing hot weather, should be painted with interior non-glossy latex white paint, all along the top side of the branch where the sunlight hits it.  This is to prevent bark and cambium death by sunburn.

Otherwise, wait till cool weather, preferably before late March.
This is very important. I did see some bark damage on more horizontal limbs of trees which had to be 'hat-racked' in September to allow uprighting after being toppled over in hurricane Irma. In addition to the areas mentioned by Har, I saw sunburn damage to the vertical west sides of branches exposed to afternoon sun.

17
Who were they from?

Iíve had about 10 PPK this year and was looking forward to eating them since they have always been on my top ten list for years....until this year. I received the fruits hard rock green and I waited until they yellowed up. The texture was gelatinous and the flavor underwhelming i was surprised and disappointed

18
It sounds like you're describing mangoes picked immature green (not mature green). A mango picked mature green takes 4 - 7 days to ripen, and there should be no discernible difference in acidity nor brix. If you pick immature green (ie, to where it takes 2+ weeks to ripen), then you will note more of an acid component and lower brix.

It does take a bit of practice to pick them mature green though. I still get it wrong more times than I care to admit. Ms Wenzel of Truly Tropical has many great videos where she details the characteristics she looks for when picking a mango -- on a cultivar by cultivar basis, as it does vary.

I use 4 main signals to determine mature green stage, in combination:

 - Time of year (cultivar dependent). For example, LZ can generally be picked starting sometime in July here in FL.
 - A color change from dark green to lighter green (a yellowing of the skin)
 - Firmness. A mature green fruit will have just a tiny bit of give when squeezed very hard (vs rock hard)
 - Size + shape (eg, shoulder fill -- largely cultivar dependent)

There is a difference in texture (ie, chalkiness) between a tree ripened mango and one ripened indoors. The former can be more watery / gelatinous, but I believe this is more a factor of potassium to calcium levels in the fruit (you can create the same texture by upping potassium and holding back on calcium).

With OS, you sort of have 2 options: pick mature green and get a delectable mango, or allow to tree ripen and eat a gelatinous ball of goop. Is it extremely susceptible to internal breakdown (even Walter complained about that). On good years, some of the fruit turn out OK. On bad years, most of the fruit get soft nose or jelly seed.

It's actually backwards. It's common knowledge that one way to mitigate internal breakdown is to pick mature green. It's even mentioned in IFAS' "Mango Growing in the Home Landscape" article (scroll down to "Internal Breakdown" http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg216).

I know this from experience -- having picked mangoes at various stages over the past few harvest seasons. Flavor is often enhanced by picking mature green.

OS is one mango that is very prone to internal breakdown disorders and should be picked mature green.

This picking green $hit is the cause of a lot of the tasting issues.



Sirry, I disagree 100%.  Any mango picked green will hae some level of acidity that one picked tree ripe wont have.  I have been picking these for many years at Walter's and have had the ability to try them at many stages.  To me and most who purchase from him (and those I have personally sold to, tree ripe rules.

I have eaten a ton of mangoes picked mature green from ZHPP, totally different experience and not usually in a good way.  If you look backbat many reciews on Gardenweb of the newer varieties that were numbers before they were named, the fruit were not given high praise.  The Sweet Tart and Pineapple Pleasure, to name a couole, were horrid picked green.  Pina Colada could have been sold to the school board as teacher's chalk.

Bottom line, to each their own...BUT...mist that I have sold to  and shared with very much prefer tree ripe.  These are mangoes to be eaten niw, not shipped commercially.

19
Fruit looks like coco cream.

20
It's actually backwards. It's common knowledge that one way to mitigate internal breakdown is to pick mature green. It's even mentioned in IFAS' "Mango Growing in the Home Landscape" article (scroll down to "Internal Breakdown" http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg216).

I know this from experience -- having picked mangoes at various stages over the past few harvest seasons. Flavor is often enhanced by picking mature green.

OS is one mango that is very prone to internal breakdown disorders and should be picked mature green.

This picking green $hit is the cause of a lot of the tasting issues.

21
I agree that PPK is better, but with some caveats

1) Season: OS being later season allows one to spread out their orange and lemon mango happiness, so this is actually a good thing. You get PPK early, then LZ mid, then OS latish mid.

2) OS is actually pretty disease resistant.

3) Ripening: OS, when picked green, ripens very well. It must be picked mature green though.

22
Hmm that's pretty handy. One of the harder prune spots is when a limb is trifurcated, and one only wants to cut the middle branch out of the "fork." That would fit right in. Also, root pruning destroys blades (due to sand / dirt abrasive action). Wonder if this would hold up?

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticabo Potting Soil Mixture
« on: August 06, 2018, 01:19:44 PM »
Where do you get pine fines? Our wal-mart stopped carrying them.

I have had great success with an even parts mixture on peat, topsoil (I use the lowes timberline) and pine fines. It's the peat and pine fines help with the acidity, the pine fines help with drainage, and the topsoil and peat retain some moisture. It's an inexpensive mix when compared with something like promix, but it gets the job done.

24
I notice that the OS has the same soft nose issue that mine has -- where the fruit ripens from bottom up. It's one of the few mangoes I have which will do that despite being in calcareous soil and not receiving nitgrogen.

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Looking for a source of bulk rock dust
« on: August 04, 2018, 02:41:21 PM »
7springsfarm will drop ship a full pallet. Their prices, even with freight, are pretty reasonable. I order soft rock phosphate from them, and it comes out about $25 / 50 pound bag with freight, which is pretty decent.

http://www.7springsfarm.com/azomite-for-plants-animals-micronized-full-pallet-50-bags-price-743-75/

Although, I'm a little skeptical that it will have much in the way of benefit. Looks like mostly aluminum and silica: http://www.7springsfarm.com/content/AzomiteAnalysis.pdf

Helena Chem's 0-0-6 micronutrient package would probably be a better choice, and they deliver if you order more than $250.

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