Author Topic: Red atemoya?  (Read 12314 times)

MangCau

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2017, 05:45:07 PM »
I think as soon as A.reticulata genes come in the flavour and quality diminish.I have seen atemoyas that are reddish and from memory Maroochy gold is red brown quite often.I have also seen a few seedling brumby atemoyas with some red on the skin. Getting red skin and the great taste of top atemoyas is the challenge rather than some bland gefner tasting one.

Mike is absolutely correct. You do not want to contaminate any great tasting anona with a.reticulata.....people want to know the taste of 47-18 it's grainy and it taste like arm& hammer

I'm sorry...but I have a serious addiction. I still want it! I'll be bugging you soon Frank. :)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 05:47:20 PM by MangCau »

JF

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2017, 05:56:28 PM »
I think as soon as A.reticulata genes come in the flavour and quality diminish.I have seen atemoyas that are reddish and from memory Maroochy gold is red brown quite often.I have also seen a few seedling brumby atemoyas with some red on the skin. Getting red skin and the great taste of top atemoyas is the challenge rather than some bland gefner tasting one.

Mike is absolutely correct. You do not want to contaminate any great tasting anona with a.reticulata.....people want to know the taste of 47-18 it's grainy and it taste like arm& hammer

I'm sorry...but I have a serious addiction. I still want it! I'll be bugging you soon Frank. :)

I understand but you are going to have to wait for our cross above lol

TheDom

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2017, 06:05:14 PM »
I was thinking it was desirable because it's got genetics from 3 species all in one plant, and of course the red skin.

 But the flavor to me was not sweet enough, and the texture was just barely mealy...really did remind me of a bland geffner, with more mealy pasty pulp, and traces of custard Apple flavor.

Well yeah, the genetics from 3 are there, but without specific traits displayed that you're after I don't know that I'd use it as a starting point for breeding. For intentional plant breeding I thought the two main approaches were:
1) Pick just one trait (say red skin) you were after and breed a plant that shows that trait with another one that's just generally top notch and may or may not have that trait. Then from the seedlings select individuals that show that trait and are the best overall for other qualities, and use them for further breeding to stabilize that trait you're after.
2) Breed exceptional individual plants together and see what you get.

Outside of red skin I don't know that 47-18 has any exceptional traits that would make it a starting point candidate for further breeding.

I do think given the lackluster taste quality combined with beautiful appearance, it might make a good candidate to graft on to front yard atemoya trees so fruit thieves steal it instead of the good stuff. You know, just graft one branch to 47-18 so they see the bright red fruit before the good stuff that's still green and camouflaged.
Dom

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2017, 06:19:17 PM »
I think the majority of those interested in collecting 47-18 for breeding efforts, are casual growers, and see it as a crap shoot, but a fun project with a rare fruit tree...it's a gamble, but worth it to tinker with seeds and amateur hybridization attempts, if enough people try, someone is bound to find a new variety...it just takes a chance, and the more people there are taking a chance, the more likely we will be to stumble upon a variety worth keeping.



I was thinking it was desirable because it's got genetics from 3 species all in one plant, and of course the red skin.

 But the flavor to me was not sweet enough, and the texture was just barely mealy...really did remind me of a bland geffner, with more mealy pasty pulp, and traces of custard Apple flavor.

Well yeah, the genetics from 3 are there, but without specific traits displayed that you're after I don't know that I'd use it as a starting point for breeding. For intentional plant breeding I thought the two main approaches were:
1) Pick just one trait (say red skin) you were after and breed a plant that shows that trait with another one that's just generally top notch and may or may not have that trait. Then from the seedlings select individuals that show that trait and are the best overall for other qualities, and use them for further breeding to stabilize that trait you're after.
2) Breed exceptional individual plants together and see what you get.

Outside of red skin I don't know that 47-18 has any exceptional traits that would make it a starting point candidate for further breeding.

I do think given the lackluster taste quality combined with beautiful appearance, it might make a good candidate to graft on to front yard atemoya trees so fruit thieves steal it instead of the good stuff. You know, just graft one branch to 47-18 so they see the bright red fruit before the good stuff that's still green and camouflaged.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 06:22:17 PM by FlyingFoxFruits »
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Mike T

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2017, 06:35:01 PM »
I am still waiting for the red fleshed and red skinned varieties being trialled to be released.They will be atemoyas basically buy some with ilama and reticulate bred in.After 30 000 crossed seedlings from Maroochydore being trialled all over the place some must be good.The trials started at least 12 years ago and I cant find anything on the results even though is was done by the state government.

MangCau

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2017, 06:59:23 PM »
I was thinking it was desirable because it's got genetics from 3 species all in one plant, and of course the red skin.

 But the flavor to me was not sweet enough, and the texture was just barely mealy...really did remind me of a bland geffner, with more mealy pasty pulp, and traces of custard Apple flavor.

Well yeah, the genetics from 3 are there, but without specific traits displayed that you're after I don't know that I'd use it as a starting point for breeding. For intentional plant breeding I thought the two main approaches were:
1) Pick just one trait (say red skin) you were after and breed a plant that shows that trait with another one that's just generally top notch and may or may not have that trait. Then from the seedlings select individuals that show that trait and are the best overall for other qualities, and use them for further breeding to stabilize that trait you're after.
2) Breed exceptional individual plants together and see what you get.

Outside of red skin I don't know that 47-18 has any exceptional traits that would make it a starting point candidate for further breeding.

I do think given the lackluster taste quality combined with beautiful appearance, it might make a good candidate to graft on to front yard atemoya trees so fruit thieves steal it instead of the good stuff. You know, just graft one branch to 47-18 so they see the bright red fruit before the good stuff that's still green and camouflaged.
That is exactly what I did with my papayas. I planted a few bar soap  babacos  for the  thieves. I'm planning to do the same with 47-18.

Guanabanus

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2017, 07:01:45 PM »
"Atemoyas" are "Annona hybrids" of Annona Squamosa with Annona Cherimola.   When you mix in ilama or reticulata, the resulting plants and fruits are other types of "Annona hybrids", and these should not be called "atemoyas."

There actually are Annona hybrids that are part reticulata that are absolutely delicious, but 47---18 is usually tastless (at least under the growing conditions in which I had it), with a tough rubbery gritty texture, and with a soft bruisable skin.  The two very substantial positives are high productivity without hand-pollination, even in poor growing conditions;  and the gorgeous skin color.

Har

MangCau

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2017, 07:05:14 PM »
I think as soon as A.reticulata genes come in the flavour and quality diminish.I have seen atemoyas that are reddish and from memory Maroochy gold is red brown quite often.I have also seen a few seedling brumby atemoyas with some red on the skin. Getting red skin and the great taste of top atemoyas is the challenge rather than some bland gefner tasting one.

Mike is absolutely correct. You do not want to contaminate any great tasting anona with a.reticulata.....people want to know the taste of 47-18 it's grainy and it taste like arm& hammer

I'm sorry...but I have a serious addiction. I still want it! I'll be bugging you soon Frank. :)

I understand but you are going to have to wait for our cross above lol
I can't wait! I know you and Thera definitely knows what you doing.

Mike T

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2017, 07:07:08 PM »
There are names for almost all the crosses and atemoya is really cherimoya x sugar apple. I think lessard is 75% sugar apple and tropic sun must be around 60%.Some that are mostly atemoya with a bit of ilama or reticulata form a generation or two ago would be hard to name.

MangCau

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2017, 07:49:44 PM »
"Atemoyas" are "Annona hybrids" of Annona Squamosa with Annona Cherimola.   When you mix in ilama or reticulata, the resulting plants and fruits are other types of "Annona hybrids", and these should not be called "atemoyas."

There actually are Annona hybrids that are part reticulata that are absolutely delicious, but 47---18 is usually tastless (at least under the growing conditions in which I had it), with a tough rubbery gritty texture, and with a soft bruisable skin.  The two very substantial positives are high productivity without hand-pollination, even in poor growing conditions;  and the gorgeous skin color.
I know you guys will jump on me for this...but I like rubbery chewy texture. ;D. It is the main reason why I dislike most cherimoya. A chewy fragnance/smooth/no grit fruit is heaven.

Mikey

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 12:26:48 PM »
Is this the same as the red Israel?

Mikey

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2017, 02:28:14 AM »
Is this the same red atemoya


Guanabanus

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2017, 08:37:23 PM »
Not atemoya.  See above.
Har

Mikey

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 11:57:29 PM »
Ong just sold a 4718 to a lack luster collector for 2.5k in a 45 gallon!!!!!

The strangest thing about this tree is the flowers.  The bottom of the petals have a pink pink center near the opening on the underside of the petals.

Is this the same observation about the 4718 flowers?
Is this the same red atemoya


« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 12:15:39 AM by Mikey »

knlim000

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2017, 12:37:33 AM »
the guy must have lots of dough. I guess why not when you only live once and can't take money into the grave.  might as well enjoy it while you're still alive.  Now, who wants to buy my fruiting mango trees? $1K for a nice large tree, acclimated to northern california cool weather, that's my saying point for the high $$$.

Seanny

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2018, 02:10:19 AM »
Any progress?

Coach62

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2018, 01:26:56 AM »
Ong just sold a 4718 to a lack luster collector for 2.5k in a 45 gallon!!!!!

The strangest thing about this tree is the flowers.  The bottom of the petals have a pink pink center near the opening on the underside of the petals.

Is this the same observation about the 4718 flowers?
Is this the same red atemoya



Uhhh, I bought one at Walmart a few months ago for $36.00, it was in a 3 gallon though and was about 4' high.  But still....... 
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Seanny

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Re: Red atemoya?
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2020, 12:29:09 AM »

I want to cull reticulata.
How do you tell that the seedlings are reticulata from the hybrids?